Performance is no longer a problem today, but I bet if you bumped EV threads from 2010, a lot of the same people listed range, price, and performance as deal breakers and claimed that no solutions were on the horizon. That was only point: EVs definitely still have some major problems to address (battery disposal and the grid are the biggest I see), but the money, research efforts, and will are all there to address them. Moreover, we watched those same efforts solve the last generation of problems over a fairly short time and I expect they will be equally productive with this one.

Related, if there's one good thing to come out of the Ukraine war, it's an acknowledgement of nuclear's usefulness in power generation.

Where is the current state of development for stuff like electric dozers and tractors and other heavy industrial machinery?

I'm in oil & gas and i totally agree that nuclear should be in the mix if not the dominant player in meeting future electrical demands but sanctioning, designing and building nuclear gen plants is also clearly going to take time .

I'm not one to say there is one fix because i don't really believe that to be true. I think the answer to
Meeting demand will be multifaceted with oil and particularly nat gas being a bridge to get us there over what I expect will be 20 yrs or so. I also am all for better and cleaner technologies, it's just that I think the market should drive it rather than government edicts. The better technology will ultimately win.

I also believe ic engines and hydrocarbon based fuels will have their place for a long time into the future . Perhaps not the dominant place they have had for the past 100 yrs but still a wedge of the market.

That's why arguments here have shifted from "I'll wait until EV's have comparable performance to ICE vehicles" to stuff like "I'll wait until it can drive 14+ hours with only a ten minute break"

Well I am waiting on the unlimited range of a vehicle powered by a nuclear reactor.

"Every EV is the equivalent of adding another house to the grid."

That doesn't say what you apparently meant.

Regardless, the vast majority of EV charging is done on a level 2 11 kW charger, not a super charger. The typical driver drives 32 miles a day. An 11 kW charger recharges that range in about 45 minutes, and it uses 8 kWh. The average house uses 29 kWh per day, or almost 4 times as much energy.

You can't use a weeks worth of consumption, shrink it to a half hour of time, and say it's increasing the consumption from the grid equivalent to something that uses that power every day.

The vast majority of charging is done during off peak hours, which increases consumption, but does not necessitate an infrastructure increase proportional to the increased consumption.

The average household has More than one vehicle tho so the avg mileage of 32 per day is low imo.

Usdot says the average is 1.88 vehicles per household. Granted , they may not all get driven every day.

94AGBQ said:

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I'll buy an electric car when I can get 500 miles on a full charge and it only takes 10 minutes to charge completely at a station when I'm on the road.

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This is the only way EVs will ever be widely accepted voluntarily. Personally I agree and will not buy an EV that doesn't meet every performance standard of my gas vehicles.

Don't put it past the filthy liberals to try to force you though. They hate you and what's left of your freedom.

halfastros81 said:

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I'm in oil & gas and i totally agree that nuclear should be in the mix if not the dominant player in meeting future electrical demands but sanctioning, designing and building nuclear gen plants is also clearly going to take time .

I'm not one to say there is one fix because i don't really believe that to be true. I think the answer to
Meeting demand will be multifaceted with oil and particularly nat gas being a bridge to get us there over what I expect will be 20 yrs or so. I also am all for better and cleaner technologies, it's just that I think the market should drive it rather than government edicts. The better technology will ultimately win.

I also believe ic engines and hydrocarbon based fuels will have their place for a long time into the future . Perhaps not the dominant place they have had for the past 100 yrs but still a wedge of the market.

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Why would you say that?

The French have already modularized their Nuclear Power Plants. Don't we already have nuclear powered Subs and Carriers, bend a few pipes, add a cooling pond and Bob's your uncle!

I know there are prototypes that could power large towns and small cities.

The permitting process and environmental impact studies for each site could take up to 10 years before construction even begins. Then another 5 to 10 years for design, construction, and commissioning (maybe shorter if design is concurrent with permitting).

GAC06 said:

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If you want to base your car decisions on the possibility of being slightly inconvenienced in the event you need to make a 3000 mile trip, that's your prerogative

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I got a good laugh on the way back from the Iowa farm for Thanksgiving when we saw a Porsche Taycan on side of the road about 10 miles NE of El Dorado, KS. Probably should have topped off that charge before leaving Kansas City.

tk for tu juan said:

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The permitting process and environmental impact studies for each site could take up to 10 years before construction even begins. Then another 5 to 10 years for design, construction, and commissioning (maybe shorter if design is concurrent with permitting).

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If electric vehicles and environment were that important they could find a way.

I don't think they will, but they should.

I say that because I believe it's true. Could some nuclear plants be built in a few years in a perfect world … probably so. It's far from a perfect world . I think 5 yrs is likely to be optimistic . I'm not saying that's how it should be… but I believe that's the reality of it. FYI, the permitting and public comment cycles would indeed probably be the longer part of it. Lawsuits might be a part of it as well and that could certainly add years .

El_Zorro said:

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Having said that, I am all for liberals driving them everywhere. I imagine, I would barely feel the impact in the passenger seat when my daughter plows into them with her Z71 Tahoe.

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How will you feel if it's a conservative driving it?

Duckhook said:

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El_Zorro said:

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Having said that, I am all for liberals driving them everywhere. I imagine, I would barely feel the impact in the passenger seat when my daughter plows into them with her Z71 Tahoe.

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How will you feel if it's a conservative driving it?

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I imagine that I'll still barely feel the impact.

El_Zorro said:

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Duckhook said:

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El_Zorro said:

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Having said that, I am all for liberals driving them everywhere. I imagine, I would barely feel the impact in the passenger seat when my daughter plows into them with her Z71 Tahoe.

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How will you feel if it's a conservative driving it?

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I imagine that I'll still barely feel the impact.

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Well, despite how much you seem to look forward to it, let's hope for everybody's sake that your daughter doesn't plow into an EV.

El_Zorro said:

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Duckhook said:

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El_Zorro said:

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Having said that, I am all for liberals driving them everywhere. I imagine, I would barely feel the impact in the passenger seat when my daughter plows into them with her Z71 Tahoe.

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How will you feel if it's a conservative driving it?

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I imagine that I'll still barely feel the impact.

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I don't know about that, hybrids and EV are pretty heavy

There will come a time in the future where people will be surprised that we let practically anyone drive a 2 ton death machine anywhere they want

— Elon Musk (@elonmusk) April 3, 2022

Yeah but too low. A large suv or truck will elevate and plow through the passenger compartment.

Retired FBI Agent said:

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There will come a time in the future where people will be surprised that we let practically anyone drive a 2 ton death machine anywhere they want

— Elon Musk (@elonmusk) April 3, 2022

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This reminds me of a Larry Niven sci-fi short story I read decades ago. At least I think it was Niven.

Edit - could of been Heinlein

There's a lot of "information" in this thread that is directly contradicted in this podcast about electric cars by Freakonomics.

I suggest you listen to it. I know some of your parents don't allow you to listen to podcasts that find purchase on NPR. But those of you that are allowed, it's interesting.

https://freakonomics.com/podcast/in-the-1890s-the-best-selling-car-was-electric/

For example, cars plugged into the grid will actually be enlarging the grid.

Also did you know that paved roads were first built for bicycles? And not cars?

El_Zorro said:

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Yeah but too low. A large suv or truck will elevate and plow through the passenger compartment.

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So now you aren't talking about fuel source or efficiency but but how low a car sits. The van I'm getting doesn't sit too low, certainly higher profile than a hell of a lot of ICE's including my wife's civic we are trading in

MapGuy said:

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El_Zorro said:

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Yeah but too low. A large suv or truck will elevate and plow through the passenger compartment.

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So now you aren't talking about fuel source or efficiency but but how low a car sits. The van I'm getting doesn't sit too low, certainly higher profile than a hell of a lot of ICE's including my wife's civic we are trading in

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Fair enough. I said in Midland most of the vehicles are large suvs and lifted trucks. I said it would be unsafe to use one as a daily commuter here.

I was very specific. Enjoy the ev!

El_Zorro said:

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MapGuy said:

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El_Zorro said:

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Yeah but too low. A large suv or truck will elevate and plow through the passenger compartment.

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So now you aren't talking about fuel source or efficiency but but how low a car sits. The van I'm getting doesn't sit too low, certainly higher profile than a hell of a lot of ICE's including my wife's civic we are trading in

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Fair enough. I said in Midland most of the vehicles are large suvs and lifted trucks. I said it would be unsafe to use one as a daily commuter here.

I was very specific. Enjoy the ev!

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No different from any other sedan. That profile is not unique to EV's.

Yep and sedans are at an extreme safety disadvantage in a collision with most vehicles on the road here.

My wife's GX460 seems like a go-cart here.

El_Zorro said:

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MapGuy said:

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El_Zorro said:

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Yeah but too low. A large suv or truck will elevate and plow through the passenger compartment.

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So now you aren't talking about fuel source or efficiency but but how low a car sits. The van I'm getting doesn't sit too low, certainly higher profile than a hell of a lot of ICE's including my wife's civic we are trading in

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Fair enough. I said in Midland most of the vehicles are large suvs and lifted trucks. I said it would be unsafe to use one as a daily commuter here.

I was very specific. Enjoy the ev!

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Not getting an EV but also live in a very rural community of Missouri with jacked up trucks, mine included, and Amish buggies. The hybrid minivan I'm getting is far larger than my wife's Civic. Not all ev's and hybrids are tiny

El_Zorro said:

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Yep and sedans are at an extreme safety disadvantage in a collision with most vehicles on the road here.

My wife's GX460 seems like a go-cart here.

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So you're just bashing sedans in general for their size, and not EV's specifically.

Duckhook said:

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El_Zorro said:

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Yep and sedans are at an extreme safety disadvantage in a collision with most vehicles on the road here.

My wife's GX460 seems like a go-cart here.

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So you're just bashing sedans in general for their size, and not EV's specifically.

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A little bit of both. EVs do not make for good large vehicles. I would never own a vehicle that couldn't pull a heavy load and wasn't four wheel drive.

I want my vehicle to be pretty much a Swiss Army knife in its utility. Other than as recreational sports cars, sedans are pretty much useless.

This story appeared today but refers to an accident in February 2019. The electric vehicle fires are horrific as we have discussed those before.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10855793/Doctor-burned-death-crashed-Tesla-cars-electronic-door-handles-didnt-pop-out.html

Quote:

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Doctor dad-of-five burned to death in his crashed Tesla because car's electronic door handles 'didn't pop out and rescuers couldn't get into vehicle to save him'

• Dr. Omar Awan, 48, died in February 2019 after crashing his Model S on South Flamingo Road in Broward County, Florida
• Firefighters were unable to reach the doctor because the retractable door hands didn't pop out
• Tesla claims it should have unless the power to the car was 'abruptly' cut off
• The family is suing the company, claiming the Model S is 'defective' and the door handles are the reason he died
• A medical examiner's report claimed he died from inhaling toxic fumes and from burns, but Tesla alleged he was drunk as his BAC was above legal limits
• Tesla is being investigated for many safety concerns, including its autopilot feature

By ALYSSA GUZMAN FOR DAILYMAIL.COM
PUBLISHED: 00:30 EDT, 26 May 2022 | UPDATED: 02:12 EDT, 26 May 2022

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Captain Positivity said:

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Battery tech isn't there yet for it to make sense. I do think we will get there at some point. Have to figure out a way to not rely so much on the rare earth metals. There are some technologies on the way, but not nearly developed enough.

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It won't be in our lifetimes, our children's lifetimes or even our grandchildren's lifetimes. Past that, who knows.

Canadian man smashes window to escape Tesla fire.

Quote:

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A driver said he had to break his Tesla's window to climb out as his vehicle shut down before catching fire in North Vancouver, British Columbia, on May 20.

James Lester filmed a video that shows a Tesla car with a broken window at the intersection of Mountain Hwy and Hunter near his distillery. The driver says to Lester that he smelt smoke and that the car's battery had died before he got out.

Moments later, the car catches fire and the firefighters extinguish the flames.

"I had to smash the window, I kicked through the window because everything was stuck," the driver says to an onlooker as he watches the vehicle burn. "The power didn't work, the door didn't open, the window didn't go down. "

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Quote:

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- I literally just pulled up to the [INAUDIBLE] my left side, and all of a sudden, it said error, error. And then all of a sudden, I see smoke [INAUDIBLE]. I couldn't even-- everything stopped. Everything's electric, so everything stopped.

Door couldn't open. I couldn't get the window down. So I just had to [INAUDIBLE] kick through it.

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Most the new battery technology allows the batteries not to be able to "catch fire" but everything around the packs can certainly.

Part of my job is designing electric equipment for the mobile industry (construction, oil and gas, etc.) and we recently had 2 battery packs have thermal runaways due to a distributor selling used China batteries.

annie88 said:

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Captain Positivity said:

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Battery tech isn't there yet for it to make sense. I do think we will get there at some point. Have to figure out a way to not rely so much on the rare earth metals. There are some technologies on the way, but not nearly developed enough.

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It won't be in our lifetimes, our children's lifetimes or even our grandchildren's lifetimes. Pass that who knows.

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Exactly! Elon Musk has no idea what he is doing. InternetAnnie is the expert on battery technology!

P.U.T.U said:

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Most the new battery technology allows the batteries not to be able to "catch fire" but everything around the packs can certainly.

Part of my job is designing electric equipment for the mobile industry (construction, oil and gas, etc.) and we recently had 2 battery packs have thermal runaways due to a distributor selling used China batteries.

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Please expand on the technology that makes a battery with an anode and a cathode and a liquid electrolyte incapable of ever malfunctioning and burning. The new 4680 Tesla battery doesn't look…more fire-resistant to me.

But wait, you just indicated that…it still happens. Interesting.