TXAG 05 said:

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How is the model y considered an SUV? Definitely doesn't look like one from the outside. Station wagon maybe.

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An SUV essentially has a hatchback and lifted up alittle. The Model Y takes some liberties with what most would define as an SUV.

But what most people find important with SUVs I would expect is hatchback, folding back seats, and increased cargo storage. If you look at this, you will be surprised that the MY has more interior cargo room than a BMW X5.

We went on a trip and rented a Ford explorer and could barely fit everything after souvenirs/luggage in the back. My MY could barely fit everything too but has essentially the same cargo space as a Ford Explorer when you use all of the hidden storage/Frunk.

The storage capacity that Tesla packed into what appears to be a smallish car is well designed.

captkirk said:

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Well it's a chart on the internet so it must be true.

Teslag said:

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captkirk said:

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Well it's a chart on the internet so it must be true.

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Have you not been reading the news lately?

You mean this news?

Total EV sales in Q3, according to an estimate from Kelley Blue Book, hit 313,086, a 49.8% increase from the same period one year ago and an increase from the 298,039 sold in Q2.

Electric vehicle (EV) sales volumes set another record in Q3, as total sales of battery-powered vehicles jumped past 300,000 for the first time in the U.S. market. Year-to-date EV sales through September reached just over 873,000, putting the market firmly on track to surpass 1 million for the first time ever.

Inventories are building but that is a case of supply growing faster than demand but it doesn't mean demand is dropping.

https://www.coxautoinc.com/market-insights/q3-2023-ev-sales/

techno-ag said:

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Teslag said:

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captkirk said:

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Well it's a chart on the internet so it must be true.

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Have you not been reading the news lately?

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Yes, I have.

https://electrek.co/2023/10/12/ev-sales-7-9-us-market-volvo-mercedes-hyundai-gain/

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EV sales surged past 300,000 for the first time in the third quarter, a nearly 50% increase over last year. As automakers like Volvo, Mercedes-Benz, Nissan, and Hyundai ramp production, Tesla's market share is slipping.

The latest quarterly EV sales estimates from Cox Automotive dropped Thursday, showing a record 313,086 electric cars sold from July to September. EV sales have now expanded for 13 straight quarters.

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Alternative facts I guess. Tanking EV sales have manufacturers concerned but Tesla is doing ok so I guess that's good.

https://www.wsj.com/business/autos/general-motors-gm-q3-earnings-report-2023-5064f4c2

techno-ag said:

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Alternative facts I guess. Tanking EV sales have manufacturers concerned but Tesla is doing ok so I guess that's good.

https://www.wsj.com/business/autos/general-motors-gm-q3-earnings-report-2023-5064f4c2

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In Q3, GM delivered 20,092 battery-electric vehicles (BEVs), which is 33 percent more than a year ago. Such volume represents about 3.0 percent of GM's total deliveries (compared to 2.6 percent a year ago).
Their issue is they were planning on a lot faster growth than what they have seen. Once again, slower growth than expected is being spun as an outright decline in demand.

techno-ag said:

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Alternative facts I guess. Tanking EV sales have manufacturers concerned but Tesla is doing ok so I guess that's good.

https://www.wsj.com/business/autos/general-motors-gm-q3-earnings-report-2023-5064f4c2

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His cartoonish meme graph showed declining demand for EV's. Your WSJ doesn't show that. It's slowing growth, but still significant growth year over year, which would be an upward demand line.

Kansas Kid said:

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techno-ag said:

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Alternative facts I guess. Tanking EV sales have manufacturers concerned but Tesla is doing ok so I guess that's good.

https://www.wsj.com/business/autos/general-motors-gm-q3-earnings-report-2023-5064f4c2

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In Q3, GM delivered 20,092 battery-electric vehicles (BEVs), which is 33 percent more than a year ago. Such volume represents about 3.0 percent of GM's total deliveries (compared to 2.6 percent a year ago).
Their issue is they were planning on a lot faster growth than what they have seen. Once again, slower growth than expected is being spun as an outright decline in demand.

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So their huge investments and product plans ultimately are enormously money losing, instead of reaching the forecast growth expected.

And no, Tesla isn't doing great; in fact it was their CEO who sparked the crash in EV speculation/car companies around EV demand dropping last month. The net EV market will continue to grow, slowly, yet Tesla is losing market share, and just got killed for their earnings/performance. The car business is brutal, and none can afford to lose money like the major players are on EV's for very long.

notex said:

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Kansas Kid said:

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techno-ag said:

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Alternative facts I guess. Tanking EV sales have manufacturers concerned but Tesla is doing ok so I guess that's good.

https://www.wsj.com/business/autos/general-motors-gm-q3-earnings-report-2023-5064f4c2

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In Q3, GM delivered 20,092 battery-electric vehicles (BEVs), which is 33 percent more than a year ago. Such volume represents about 3.0 percent of GM's total deliveries (compared to 2.6 percent a year ago).
Their issue is they were planning on a lot faster growth than what they have seen. Once again, slower growth than expected is being spun as an outright decline in demand.

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So their huge investments and product plans ultimately are enormously money losing, instead of reaching the forecast growth expected.

And no, Tesla isn't doing great; in fact it was their CEO who sparked the crash in EV speculation/car companies around EV demand dropping last month. The net EV market will continue to grow, slowly, yet Tesla is losing market share, and just got killed for their earnings/performance. The car business is brutal, and none can afford to lose money like the major players are on EV's for very long.

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I agree the car business is brutal and the legacy guys will need to improve their performance which will be tough with the new UAW deal.

You may not have read the article but instead went off the headline and you certainly didn't look at the actual numbers. Per your article, Musk said high interest rates COULD sap electric vehicle demand not that they have reduced demand. I think it is safe to say high interest rates could affect ALL vehicle demand since most are financed.

As for the sales decline you imply because of their declining market share, here are the stats. Through 3 quarters, Tesla sold more cars than all of last year. That is a growth rate most companies would die for. Their share is down but that is because of more total sales and a lot more competing cars in the marketplace. Do you really expect Tesla to maintain a 60%+ market share for ever?

https://www.fool.com/investing/2023/10/29/even-with-shrinking-profits-teslas-business-is-sup/


It's also worth remembering how much of a margin advantage Tesla has over competition. Ford loses $40k per EV. Rivian loses $32k per EV. Tesla? They are still profiting $8k per vehicle.

Quote:

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My colleague James Brumley provided investors with a fantastic overview of Tesla's unit-level profitability going all the way back to 2019. The main takeaway is that price cuts, inflation, and rising interest rates have become wicked headwinds for Tesla's profitability.

As a silver lining, Tesla's gross profit per vehicle in the the third quarter was only down 4% from the previous quarter. This does not necessarily mean the company has reached a bottom, but it's the smallest sequential decline in the past year. Some factories were also shut down for part of the third quarter, which further impacted deliveries, revenue, and profits.

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BuffsAg47 said:

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I'll get a hybrid but never full electric. A hybrid will get me to work and back on electric no problem and I won't have to spend as much on gas every week. But I like having the option for gas on road trips or longer trips. That option for the road trips is just a second car for me. I'll never own two EVs.

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I have no idea how I edited your post. But the last two sentences are mine.

When the major auto manufacturers start changing their EV plans, it's probably a sign something's not quite right. For all those who think they're better than everyone else because they drive a Tesla, this video is for you...

Full Newsletter: https://t.co/XYjZWyMRhx pic.twitter.com/Le7OZWTLA9

— Peter Zeihan (@PeterZeihan) November 2, 2023

Actually a decent take by him on this one.

Unless we put in more natural gas or nuclear power plants EVs will be nothing more than novelties owed by people who can afford a second car or city dwellers who don't drive that far each day…the amount of subsidies being paid out by our government isn't sitting well with the public and the battery fire fear doesn't help., subsidies were destined to end if the novelty idea didn't work…. Well we see what's going on with the majors and their EVs .. kind of like a turd swirling in the toilet just before it's disappears into the dark

I've told this story on another thread but my buddy owes a Tesla, he owns 3-4 cars, he really likes driving the Tesla around when it's charged .. he admits he likes his Suburban better and feels safer, his wife drives the suburban, he doesn't like her driving the little Tesla…. The Tesla isn't allowed to be parked in the garage at night, he onLy charges it (in his garage..lol) during the day when the family is at school .. when's the last time people worried about parking a gasoline or diesel car in their garage? Ive got an aging 2006 Ford GT sitting in my garage … I'm not worried about it burning the house down

Oh, and I like Elon Musk, so I have no problems with Tesla, they just need to build them without government help. Go SpaceX .. pulling for Falcon Heavy and Starship… liftoff #2 is close !

fullback44 said:

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Unless we put in more natural gas or nuclear power plants EVs will be nothing more than novelties owed by people who can afford a second car or city dwellers who don't drive that far each day…the amount of subsidies being paid out by our government isn't sitting well with the public and the battery fire fear doesn't help., subsidies were destined to end if the novelty idea didn't work…. Well we see what's going on with the majors and their EVs .. kind of like a turd swirling in the toilet just before it's disappears into the dark

I've told this story on another thread but my buddy owes a Tesla, he owns 3-4 cars, he really likes driving the Tesla around when it's charged .. he admits he likes his Suburban better and feels safer, his wife drives the suburban, he doesn't like her driving the little Tesla…. The Tesla isn't allowed to be parked in the garage at night, he onLy charges it (in his garage..lol) during the day when the family is at school .. when's the last time people worried about parking a gasoline or diesel car in their garage? Ive got an aging 2006 Ford GT sitting in my garage … I'm not worried about it burning the house down

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Sounds like your buddy needs some testosterone. Nobody I know with an EV is afraid to drive it, park it in the garage or charge it.

Nice job on the GT though. I wish I had bought one back in the day.

Paid $165 for it … worth a lot more .. like a fine wine … except they don't make the Goodyear Eagles for the back any more … got some new Pirelli's going on it today .. losing 3/4" width and 1/4" height on the rear tires .. hope it still looks good

fullback44 said:

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Paid $165 for it … worth a lot more .. like a fine wine … except they don't make the Goodyear Eagles for the back any more … got some new Pirelli's going on it today .. losing 3/4" width and 1/4" height on the rear tires .. hope it still looks good

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I love mid engine cars and I've had 3, but the Ford GT was the one that got away.

fullback44 said:

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Paid $165 for it … worth a lot more .. like a fine wine … except they don't make the Goodyear Eagles for the back any more … got some new Pirelli's going on it today .. losing 3/4" width and 1/4" height on the rear tires .. hope it still looks good

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You could put skinny tires with the white walls out on pointy wire wheels and the GT would still look good despite them.

nortex97 said:

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When the major auto manufacturers start changing their EV plans, it's probably a sign something's not quite right. For all those who think they're better than everyone else because they drive a Tesla, this video is for you...

Full Newsletter: https://t.co/XYjZWyMRhx pic.twitter.com/Le7OZWTLA9

— Peter Zeihan (@PeterZeihan) November 2, 2023

Actually a decent take by him on this one.

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ButButBut… sales are increasing!

nortex97 said:

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When the major auto manufacturers start changing their EV plans, it's probably a sign something's not quite right. For all those who think they're better than everyone else because they drive a Tesla, this video is for you...

Full Newsletter: https://t.co/XYjZWyMRhx pic.twitter.com/Le7OZWTLA9

— Peter Zeihan (@PeterZeihan) November 2, 2023

Actually a decent take by him on this one.

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I disagree with Zeihan on many things but he is generally very good at being intellectually honest when talking about problems.

techno-ag said:

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nortex97 said:

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When the major auto manufacturers start changing their EV plans, it's probably a sign something's not quite right. For all those who think they're better than everyone else because they drive a Tesla, this video is for you...

Full Newsletter: https://t.co/XYjZWyMRhx pic.twitter.com/Le7OZWTLA9

— Peter Zeihan (@PeterZeihan) November 2, 2023

Actually a decent take by him on this one.

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ButButBut… sales are increasing!

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They literally are.

fullback44 said:

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Paid $165 for it … worth a lot more .. like a fine wine … except they don't make the Goodyear Eagles for the back any more … got some new Pirelli's going on it today .. losing 3/4" width and 1/4" height on the rear tires .. hope it still looks good

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Nice play. As you know, those things have skyrocketed in value. Out of reach for me now

Amazing how he stops short of mentioning which "green" technologies would actually "work".

He always tries to give a hot take without alienating listeners. Typical CIA type of media.

No 'green' technology works (other than nuclear), at anything, and global warming is a myth, but that doesn't get clicks. Well, geothermal might work ok in a place like Iceland, and solar might be 'ok' in the Sahara/arabian peninsula, whatever.

Electric bus loses power, rolls backward into line of cars.

Yay for green energy!!! Destructively eco-friendly!

— Colton Weeks🍊🗣🗣 (@CMWeeks) November 6, 2023

Way to go, google do-gooders.

Yea saw electric trash trucks can't be used for snow plow in Winter, snow load quickly drains the batteries, going back to there diesel trucks. The green economy is a huge hoax.

okay, I saw a vanity plate on a Tesla that is just a bit over the top....

TSL S3XY

Bubblez said:

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okay, I saw a vanity plate on a Tesla that is just a bit over the top....

TSL S3XY

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Telsa and Ford had some beef over the use of the name "Model E".

The day they outlaw gas powered vehicles I am just going to ride a horse.

"solar might be 'ok' in the Sahara/arabian peninsula, whatever."

Well... it's working very well in Switzerland. They'just installed a large solar farm up on a mountain above the fog line where they get more continuous sunlight.

I believe PZ when he smirks at the Germans futile attempt to develop Solar Power with their geography and climate, but then PZ, as I've said on the other thread, tends to not take into account innovation. He's a well informed liberal that can do math, as he says, and he's very good at analyzing the past; of the future... I'm not so sure.

I'll add that one of my largest holdings is XOM, because I believe PZ on the need for Fossil Fuels to feed the world. I also happen to agree with Alex Epstein's take. I don't buy the lefties Climate Change agenda, but clearly the globe is warming and has been for the last 13k years...when it starts cooling is when we all should go, oh ohh, looks like the end of the interglacial period!

Be carefully...I just watched a video on what's happening with Porsche....not a pretty picture.

Trucker DESTROYS electric vehicle narrative in under 2 minutes. pic.twitter.com/6CthfMxzLn

— The Michael Knowles Show (@MKnowlesShow) November 8, 2023