Ogre09 said:

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Aggie4Life02 said:

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aTmAg said:

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Aggie4Life02 said:

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aTmAg said:

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Aggie4Life02 said:

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aTmAg said:

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Aggie4Life02 said:

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aTmAg said:

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Aggie4Life02 said:

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aTmAg said:

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Buck Turgidson said:

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Holy ****, its not an either/or situation! There are many conflicts without a "good side". I would call Ukraine the "less bad" side because the Russians are the aggressor.

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BS. That is like saying there is no good side between Hitler and France because some French are pompous ass holes. This as about as good/bad as a war gets.

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The Ukraine government is as corrupt as they come. Ukraine isn't even close to being a good guy. This is more akin to Iran vs Saudi Arabia.

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Not even close. And not worthy a long response, as you have exposed yourself as a FP kindergartener.

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…you probably still think the Veitnam War was a good idea. You're the neocon version of an npc.

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You think sending Iran pallets of money was a good idea. You should just stop talking. (And no I think Vietnam was run as poorly as possible. Almost like you were put in charge of the war.)

What is funny is that this Ukraine/Russia fight was such a NO BRAINER that you finally had a chance to be right on something for once. But you couldn't even get THIS right. Hilarous.

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aTmNPC: "Must hate Russians. War is good for us. Ukraine is 'Merica 2.0. if we don't defend them, US invasion is next. Iran is 3 days away from having nukes since 1990."

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Too bad our enemies weren't all strawmen. You are good at "defeating" them.

Give up dude. You are embarrassing yourself.

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Blessed are the warmongers. When you see an enemy under every rock, you never have peace. Neocons can never look into the mirror and think history started 3 minutes ago. You have no ability to feel embarrassed yourself because you have no introspection.

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The LP claims that they really aren't pacifists and that they they are only for war in the case of invasion. Then such an unprovoked invasion does happen, and what do you do? You expose yourself as the most Kucinichy of Kucinichs that ever Kuciniched.

This is why people don't take you seriously. You are the LP version of StevenvilleAg77.

Quote:

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Whenever you decide to pick up a gun and fly to Ukraine, I might take your criticism seriously.

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Ahh.. the "don't criticize alcoholism until you try it" argument. Nobody ever confused you for smart.

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1) The Ukraine invasion certainly wasn't unprovoked.

2) I strongly condemn Russia's invasion.

3) It still isn't worth US blood or treasure.

4) The West can walk and chew gum at the same time by condemning Putin's actions and using diplomacy to help deescalate. Also, the US can look into the mirror and see how their past actions contributed to the current conflict, assess and learn from their mistakes.

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1. How was the invasion provoked? Ukraine has the right to self determination, and Russia has no right to impose their will on Ukraine. You can't force someone to be your ally.

2. Strongly condemn, but at the same time make excuses and blame others besides Putin?

3. Blood, no. Treasure, hell yes.

4. How could Western diplomacy possibly de-escalate at this point? Putin wants Ukraine as its *****. That's the only thing he'll accept as a win. Our goal has to be to convince him to give up on that goal via supporting Ukraine with weapons and intel and pressuring Russia with sanctions.

How did our past actions contribute to this conflict? By encouraging Ukraine to leave Russia? Does Ukraine not have a right to choose its allies? Is Ukraine belong to Russia?

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Read a little history of US/Russian relations since the fall of the Soviet Union, and also look at the history of Ukraine and Russian relations during that same period.


You can also pull out your checkbook and send money to Zelenskyy if you like. Just leave my checkbook alone.

Aggie4Life02 said:

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aTmAg said:

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Aggie4Life02 said:

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aTmAg said:

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Aggie4Life02 said:

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aTmAg said:

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Aggie4Life02 said:

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aTmAg said:

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Aggie4Life02 said:

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aTmAg said:

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Buck Turgidson said:

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Holy ****, its not an either/or situation! There are many conflicts without a "good side". I would call Ukraine the "less bad" side because the Russians are the aggressor.

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BS. That is like saying there is no good side between Hitler and France because some French are pompous ass holes. This as about as good/bad as a war gets.

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The Ukraine government is as corrupt as they come. Ukraine isn't even close to being a good guy. This is more akin to Iran vs Saudi Arabia.

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Not even close. And not worthy a long response, as you have exposed yourself as a FP kindergartener.

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…you probably still think the Veitnam War was a good idea. You're the neocon version of an npc.

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You think sending Iran pallets of money was a good idea. You should just stop talking. (And no I think Vietnam was run as poorly as possible. Almost like you were put in charge of the war.)

What is funny is that this Ukraine/Russia fight was such a NO BRAINER that you finally had a chance to be right on something for once. But you couldn't even get THIS right. Hilarous.

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aTmNPC: "Must hate Russians. War is good for us. Ukraine is 'Merica 2.0. if we don't defend them, US invasion is next. Iran is 3 days away from having nukes since 1990."

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Too bad our enemies weren't all strawmen. You are good at "defeating" them.

Give up dude. You are embarrassing yourself.

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Blessed are the warmongers. When you see an enemy under every rock, you never have peace. Neocons can never look into the mirror and think history started 3 minutes ago. You have no ability to feel embarrassed yourself because you have no introspection.

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The LP claims that they really aren't pacifists and that they they are only for war in the case of invasion. Then such an unprovoked invasion does happen, and what do you do? You expose yourself as the most Kucinichy of Kucinichs that ever Kuciniched.

This is why people don't take you seriously. You are the LP version of StevenvilleAg77.

Quote:

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Whenever you decide to pick up a gun and fly to Ukraine, I might take your criticism seriously.

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Ahh.. the "don't criticize alcoholism until you try it" argument. Nobody ever confused you for smart.

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1) The Ukraine invasion certainly wasn't unprovoked.

2) I strongly condemn Russia's invasion.

3) It still isn't worth US blood or treasure.

4) The West can walk and chew gum at the same time by condemning Putin's actions and using diplomacy to help deescalate. Also, the US can look into the mirror and see how their past actions contributed to the current conflict, assess and learn from their mistakes.

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Wow, please outline how Ukraine "provoked" the invasion.

He won't. He'll just tell you to educate yourself.

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current thing = peaceful nation that was invaded.

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WOW, really, and how do I know that you knew nothing about what was going in Ukraine before this invasion!?!?

OPAG said:

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Quote:

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current thing = peaceful nation that was invaded.

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WOW, really, and how do I know that you knew nothing about what was going in Ukraine before this invasion!?!?

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Please, enlighten us then.

J. Walter Weatherman said:

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OPAG said:

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Quote:

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current thing = peaceful nation that was invaded.

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WOW, really, and how do I know that you knew nothing about what was going in Ukraine before this invasion!?!?

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Please, enlighten us then.

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He poster could spell it out for you word for word and it wouldn't matter. You've made up your mind.

Ogre09 said:

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He won't. He'll just tell you to educate yourself.

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How many ethnic Russian civilians in the Donbass have been killed by Ukraine since 2014?

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I think Saddam's underlings and scientists were lying to him about WMDs so they they didn't get lowered feet first into wood chippers like Saddam did with others who disappointed him. And that our intel was getting that info.

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Oh my, more proof of your ignorance.

Our INTEL was in cahoots with the Saudi's, who wanted Sadaam out because he had be come a lose cannon and had failed in his bid to take over Iran but just as easily could have gone south. This and Bush senior wanting to finish the job he failed to finish. So let's feed Jr a BS lie!

There were other issues as well, but the idea that our INTEL was fed false info from Iraqi scientist is nonsense.

Aggie4Life02 said:

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aTmAg said:

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Aggie4Life02 said:

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aTmAg said:

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Aggie4Life02 said:

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aTmAg said:

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Aggie4Life02 said:

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aTmAg said:

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Aggie4Life02 said:

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aTmAg said:

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Buck Turgidson said:

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Holy ****, its not an either/or situation! There are many conflicts without a "good side". I would call Ukraine the "less bad" side because the Russians are the aggressor.

---

BS. That is like saying there is no good side between Hitler and France because some French are pompous ass holes. This as about as good/bad as a war gets.

---

The Ukraine government is as corrupt as they come. Ukraine isn't even close to being a good guy. This is more akin to Iran vs Saudi Arabia.

---

Not even close. And not worthy a long response, as you have exposed yourself as a FP kindergartener.

---

…you probably still think the Veitnam War was a good idea. You're the neocon version of an npc.

---

You think sending Iran pallets of money was a good idea. You should just stop talking. (And no I think Vietnam was run as poorly as possible. Almost like you were put in charge of the war.)

What is funny is that this Ukraine/Russia fight was such a NO BRAINER that you finally had a chance to be right on something for once. But you couldn't even get THIS right. Hilarous.

---

aTmNPC: "Must hate Russians. War is good for us. Ukraine is 'Merica 2.0. if we don't defend them, US invasion is next. Iran is 3 days away from having nukes since 1990."

---

Too bad our enemies weren't all strawmen. You are good at "defeating" them.

Give up dude. You are embarrassing yourself.

---

Blessed are the warmongers. When you see an enemy under every rock, you never have peace. Neocons can never look into the mirror and think history started 3 minutes ago. You have no ability to feel embarrassed yourself because you have no introspection.

---

The LP claims that they really aren't pacifists and that they they are only for war in the case of invasion. Then such an unprovoked invasion does happen, and what do you do? You expose yourself as the most Kucinichy of Kucinichs that ever Kuciniched.

This is why people don't take you seriously. You are the LP version of StevenvilleAg77.

Quote:

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Whenever you decide to pick up a gun and fly to Ukraine, I might take your criticism seriously.

---

Ahh.. the "don't criticize alcoholism until you try it" argument. Nobody ever confused you for smart.

---

1) The Ukraine invasion certainly wasn't unprovoked.

2) I strongly condemn Russia's invasion.

3) It still isn't worth US blood or treasure.

4) The West can walk and chew gum at the same time by condemning Putin's actions and using diplomacy to help deescalate. Also, the US can look into the mirror and see how their past actions contributed to the current conflict, assess and learn from their mistakes.

---

Putin doesn't get to define whatever he wants as "provoke" and then invade because of that.

NOTHING Ukraine did justifies any invasion.

OPAG said:

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Quote:

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current thing = peaceful nation that was invaded.

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WOW, really, and how do I know that you knew nothing about what was going in Ukraine before this invasion!?!?

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Nothing going on in Ukraine justified an invasion by Russia.

We have murders, corruption, and crap too, but Canada invading us would be an outrage.

OPAG said:

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Quote:

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I think Saddam's underlings and scientists were lying to him about WMDs so they they didn't get lowered feet first into wood chippers like Saddam did with others who disappointed him. And that our intel was getting that info.

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Oh my, more proof of your ignorance.

Our INTEL was in cahoots with the Saudi's, who wanted Sadaam out because he had be come a lose cannon and had failed in his bid to take over Iran but just as easily could have gone south. This and Bush senior wanting to finish the job he failed to finish. So let's feed Jr a BS lie!

There were other issues as well, but the idea that our INTEL was fed false info from Iraqi scientist is nonsense.

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Good lord. You are a moron.

After 1991 Saddam was not in the position to invade ANYBODY. The idea that Saudi Arabia was worried about invasion in 2003 is preposterous.

Quote:

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Good God dude. You are a step away from 9/11 truther. Do you think that was an inside job?

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There is a specific name for what you just did! And here it is?

Distraction Fallacies

One way of winning an argument is to distract the person from the real point, leading them up the garden path of a side issue or something completely irrelevant to the real subject. The main argument may thus never be completed to a logical conclusion, especially if agreeing with the side issue can be substituted for the real agreement.

Aggie4Life02 said:

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Ogre09 said:

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He won't. He'll just tell you to educate yourself.

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How many ethnic Russian civilians in the Donbass have been killed by Ukraine since 2014?

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Good question- 14000 people have died since 2014

Of course, that region has been Ukrainian since 1991. So unless they were expats or sent by Russia, nearly all of the civilian deaths are Ukrainian

I guess OP fell for the propaganda campaign they launched a week ago on the subject. Russians had a full court press on Twitter.

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Good lord. You are a moron.

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Please dispense with the Ad Hominin attacks>

I am not the moron here> You have no clue of history other than what you reading in the Atlantic or getting from CNN or the MSN.

aTmAg said:

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Aggie4Life02 said:

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aTmAg said:

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Aggie4Life02 said:

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aTmAg said:

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Aggie4Life02 said:

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aTmAg said:

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Aggie4Life02 said:

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aTmAg said:

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Aggie4Life02 said:

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aTmAg said:

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Buck Turgidson said:

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Holy ****, its not an either/or situation! There are many conflicts without a "good side". I would call Ukraine the "less bad" side because the Russians are the aggressor.

---

BS. That is like saying there is no good side between Hitler and France because some French are pompous ass holes. This as about as good/bad as a war gets.

---

The Ukraine government is as corrupt as they come. Ukraine isn't even close to being a good guy. This is more akin to Iran vs Saudi Arabia.

---

Not even close. And not worthy a long response, as you have exposed yourself as a FP kindergartener.

---

…you probably still think the Veitnam War was a good idea. You're the neocon version of an npc.

---

You think sending Iran pallets of money was a good idea. You should just stop talking. (And no I think Vietnam was run as poorly as possible. Almost like you were put in charge of the war.)

What is funny is that this Ukraine/Russia fight was such a NO BRAINER that you finally had a chance to be right on something for once. But you couldn't even get THIS right. Hilarous.

---

aTmNPC: "Must hate Russians. War is good for us. Ukraine is 'Merica 2.0. if we don't defend them, US invasion is next. Iran is 3 days away from having nukes since 1990."

---

Too bad our enemies weren't all strawmen. You are good at "defeating" them.

Give up dude. You are embarrassing yourself.

---

Blessed are the warmongers. When you see an enemy under every rock, you never have peace. Neocons can never look into the mirror and think history started 3 minutes ago. You have no ability to feel embarrassed yourself because you have no introspection.

---

The LP claims that they really aren't pacifists and that they they are only for war in the case of invasion. Then such an unprovoked invasion does happen, and what do you do? You expose yourself as the most Kucinichy of Kucinichs that ever Kuciniched.

This is why people don't take you seriously. You are the LP version of StevenvilleAg77.

Quote:

---

Whenever you decide to pick up a gun and fly to Ukraine, I might take your criticism seriously.

---

Ahh.. the "don't criticize alcoholism until you try it" argument. Nobody ever confused you for smart.

---

1) The Ukraine invasion certainly wasn't unprovoked.

2) I strongly condemn Russia's invasion.

3) It still isn't worth US blood or treasure.

4) The West can walk and chew gum at the same time by condemning Putin's actions and using diplomacy to help deescalate. Also, the US can look into the mirror and see how their past actions contributed to the current conflict, assess and learn from their mistakes.

---

Putin doesn't get to define whatever he wants as "provoke" and then invade because of that.

NOTHING Ukraine did justifies any invasion.

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Hence point 2.

OPAG said:

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Quote:

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Good lord. You are a moron.

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Please dispense with the Ad Hominin attacks>

I am not the moron here> You have no clue of history other than what you reading in the Atlantic or getting from CNN or the MSN.

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Right back at you:

Quote:

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Oh my, more proof of your ignorance.

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And you are basically ignoring every lesson of WW2. It's ironic that you claim that anybody else is ignorant of history.


AND CNN, really? MY position is conservative. Yours is liberal. You are pushing the appeasement policies of Neville Chamberlain.

cbr said:

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Not advocating for nazi's but you people surprised about some nazi sympathisers in ukraine must not know any history.

The soviets/bolsheviks killed more ukrainians in peace time than the nazis killed , anywhere, ever. Hell they killed more ukrainian jews than the nazis did in the entire holocaust.

The nazi's actually liberated ukraine, and were received with parades and flowers at first. Only when the ss came in behind the army did a majority of ukrainians decide theyd rather be ruled by murderous tyrants that spoke russian than those who spoke german.

In hindsight from ukraine's perspective it would be very hard to say whether nazis would have been better rulers. Thus the. Split of opinion.

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Some historical background on Ukraine stuck between Nazis and Commies during World War II.