Albatross Necklace said:

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Tex117 said:

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Albatross Necklace said:

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Tex117 said:

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Ukraine is a western leaning democracy.

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If the CIA overthrows the administration every time the country elects someone the State department doesn't like, it isn't really a democracy.

The word you're looking for is puppet-state

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Even if this is true...I want it a western leaning puppet state.

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I want a buffer state, not a puppet state.

In between two large powers (NATO & Russia), you should want a buffer state that can coexist with both.

Turning Ukraine into a puppet state that sides with one power is provoking a war

Good crash course:

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And even assuming this is true...Cool. But that's not what is going on right now. So its moot.

TXCityAggie said:

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Propaganda has always been a part of war. That doesn't make it a conspiracy.

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But the U.S. media did not promulgate Soviet and German propaganda in WWII. They promulgated U.S. propaganda. Now, the U.S. media promulgates propaganda from every country but the one they hate the most, the U.S. They can't bear to do that.

NicosMachine said:

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Tex117 said:

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Jay Reimenschneider said:

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Tex117 said:

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Some of you truly are lost.

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When will it be enough for you, friend? What will it take fir you to see that there are lies? I don't know what the lies mean, but I still know a lie. Are you unable to see?

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Lie? What lie.

Russia, a destabilizing bad actor force and nuclear power invaded a pro-western democracy. That's it.

You have lost your mind.

---

Russia sucks, but let's not pretend Ukraine is Hong Kong. It is one of the most corrupt countries in the world. The President's opposition leader is under house arrest and several major media outlets were shut down due to criticism of the President and his party. That said, borders mean something and hopefully Russia is not successful in its invasion of Ukraine. Maybe the economic pressure brought to bear on Russia will result in Putin's downfall, but the U.S. has no military interest there. My son doesn't need to be sent to defend Ukraine borders.

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And thankfully, he isn't. They are not NATO.

No...Ukraine is not Hong Kong (or Taiwan for that matter). I think that opposition leader, Viktor Medvedchuk, may have escaped house arrest...and he had direct ties with the Kremlin...So, yeah...not an issue with that house arrest.

I'm not advocating for NATO involvement here. But there is a clear aggressor here...and the West should do everything it can up to actual war to trigger article 5, to help. Further, this helps send a message to other countries (China), that the West still is strong and will find ways to economically isolate you. (Yes, China is a different analysis...but you get my point).

I still don't understand why Zelensky was telling the US to cool on its warnings to Russians before the invasion started. Any thoughts there? This thread seems like a good place for it and maybe it has already been discussed even. I didn't read the whole thing.

Tex117 said:

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NicosMachine said:

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Tex117 said:

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Jay Reimenschneider said:

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Tex117 said:

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Some of you truly are lost.

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When will it be enough for you, friend? What will it take fir you to see that there are lies? I don't know what the lies mean, but I still know a lie. Are you unable to see?

---

Lie? What lie.

Russia, a destabilizing bad actor force and nuclear power invaded a pro-western democracy. That's it.

You have lost your mind.

---

Russia sucks, but let's not pretend Ukraine is Hong Kong. It is one of the most corrupt countries in the world. The President's opposition leader is under house arrest and several major media outlets were shut down due to criticism of the President and his party. That said, borders mean something and hopefully Russia is not successful in its invasion of Ukraine. Maybe the economic pressure brought to bear on Russia will result in Putin's downfall, but the U.S. has no military interest there. My son doesn't need to be sent to defend Ukraine borders.

---

And thankfully, he isn't. They are not NATO.

No...Ukraine is not Hong Kong (or Taiwan for that matter). I think that opposition leader, Viktor Medvedchuk, may have escaped house arrest...and he had direct ties with the Kremlin...So, yeah...not an issue with that house arrest.

I'm not advocating for NATO involvement here. But there is a clear aggressor here...and the West should do everything it can up to actual war to trigger article 5, to help. Further, this helps send a message to other countries (China), that the West still is strong and will find ways to economically isolate you. (Yes, China is a different analysis...but you get my point).

---

Democracies don't arrest political opponents for simply having "ties" to other countries. The opposition leader opposed Russian military action against Ukraine. Biden had ties with horrible people at Burisma. Hell, he has ties with his son who is a really bad actor. You can't go around arresting people with whom you have political disagreements. That is fascism, not Democracy.

NicosMachine said:

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Tex117 said:

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NicosMachine said:

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Tex117 said:

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Jay Reimenschneider said:

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Tex117 said:

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Some of you truly are lost.

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When will it be enough for you, friend? What will it take fir you to see that there are lies? I don't know what the lies mean, but I still know a lie. Are you unable to see?

---

Lie? What lie.

Russia, a destabilizing bad actor force and nuclear power invaded a pro-western democracy. That's it.

You have lost your mind.

---

Russia sucks, but let's not pretend Ukraine is Hong Kong. It is one of the most corrupt countries in the world. The President's opposition leader is under house arrest and several major media outlets were shut down due to criticism of the President and his party. That said, borders mean something and hopefully Russia is not successful in its invasion of Ukraine. Maybe the economic pressure brought to bear on Russia will result in Putin's downfall, but the U.S. has no military interest there. My son doesn't need to be sent to defend Ukraine borders.

---

And thankfully, he isn't. They are not NATO.

No...Ukraine is not Hong Kong (or Taiwan for that matter). I think that opposition leader, Viktor Medvedchuk, may have escaped house arrest...and he had direct ties with the Kremlin...So, yeah...not an issue with that house arrest.

I'm not advocating for NATO involvement here. But there is a clear aggressor here...and the West should do everything it can up to actual war to trigger article 5, to help. Further, this helps send a message to other countries (China), that the West still is strong and will find ways to economically isolate you. (Yes, China is a different analysis...but you get my point).

---

Democracies don't arrest political opponents for simply having "ties" to other countries. The opposition leader opposed Russian military action against Ukraine. Biden had ties with horrible people at Burisma. Hell, he has ties with his son who is a really bad actor. You can't go around arresting people with whom you have political disagreements. That is fascism, not Democracy.

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Its not even close to "having ties" with Democracy. His involvement with Russia went beyond "jailing a political opponent" especially in light of a full scale invasion. What you are describing doesn't arise even close to what this guy's involvement was.

Normally, I would absolutely agree with you.

NicosMachine said:

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Democracies don't arrest political opponents for simply having "ties" to other countries. ...

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Yes they surely do when that country is Russia and presents an existential threat of invasion to the home nation.

This conflict is simple. It's a battle of Good vs. Evil. No, nothing feels fishy about it.

Who cares if Ukraine is using propaganda? It's a valid and useful tool in war.

Some of you spend way too much time in your political echo chambers. It's not good for your mind.

It has officially gotten to the point that some posters won't believe anything they can't see off their front porch. And in those cases, it is only 50/50 that they buy it.

Unless of course their chosen email chain tells them what the international cabal is up to. Those email chains are always right!

Tex117 said:

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NicosMachine said:

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Tex117 said:

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Jay Reimenschneider said:

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Tex117 said:

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Some of you truly are lost.

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When will it be enough for you, friend? What will it take fir you to see that there are lies? I don't know what the lies mean, but I still know a lie. Are you unable to see?

---

Lie? What lie.

Russia, a destabilizing bad actor force and nuclear power invaded a pro-western democracy. That's it.

You have lost your mind.

---

Russia sucks, but let's not pretend Ukraine is Hong Kong. It is one of the most corrupt countries in the world. The President's opposition leader is under house arrest and several major media outlets were shut down due to criticism of the President and his party. That said, borders mean something and hopefully Russia is not successful in its invasion of Ukraine. Maybe the economic pressure brought to bear on Russia will result in Putin's downfall, but the U.S. has no military interest there. My son doesn't need to be sent to defend Ukraine borders.

---

I think that opposition leader, Viktor Medvedchuk, may have escaped house arrest...and he had direct ties with the Kremlin...So, yeah...not an issue with that house arrest.

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Wow, just wow. Wow wow wow!

Are these the western values you were advocating for in the other thread?

Arresting political opposition?

That sounds a lot like what Putin does, but I'm told he's evil and Ukraine is good. No, Ukraine is garbage. Putin is garbage. Biden is garbage! I want nothing to do with the Marxist totalitarians you support on the left.

Tex117 said:

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Jay Reimenschneider said:

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Ummm...the media carrying the propaganda regarding the ghost of Kiev? Or the snake island incident? I don't know what you're talking about, but I'm specifically, without exception, speaking about those lies. Let's not make this something it's not.

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Dude, running some propaganda to give hope to people in Ukraine (which they have corrected), is not even close to what you are saying regarding Russia.

You are a nutter.

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hey staff! I can't post a question on the holy Ch 84 board but you're allowing people to insult and levy personal attacks?

So sick of the double standard around here. We are quickly learning that moderation only applies to certain groups.

Prove me wrong.

Arresting someone who had plans to sabotage Ukraine's democracy and aid the Russians is not "arresting political opposition." He was a spy planning to collaborate with the Russians. We arrest spies here in the US too.

Marcus Brutus said:

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Tex117 said:

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NicosMachine said:

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Tex117 said:

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Jay Reimenschneider said:

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Tex117 said:

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Some of you truly are lost.

---

When will it be enough for you, friend? What will it take fir you to see that there are lies? I don't know what the lies mean, but I still know a lie. Are you unable to see?

---

Lie? What lie.

Russia, a destabilizing bad actor force and nuclear power invaded a pro-western democracy. That's it.

You have lost your mind.

---

Russia sucks, but let's not pretend Ukraine is Hong Kong. It is one of the most corrupt countries in the world. The President's opposition leader is under house arrest and several major media outlets were shut down due to criticism of the President and his party. That said, borders mean something and hopefully Russia is not successful in its invasion of Ukraine. Maybe the economic pressure brought to bear on Russia will result in Putin's downfall, but the U.S. has no military interest there. My son doesn't need to be sent to defend Ukraine borders.

---

I think that opposition leader, Viktor Medvedchuk, may have escaped house arrest...and he had direct ties with the Kremlin...So, yeah...not an issue with that house arrest.

---

Wow, just wow. Wow wow wow!

Are these the western values you were advocating for in the other thread?

Arresting political opposition?

That sounds a lot like what Putin does, but I'm told he's evil and Ukraine is good. No, Ukraine is garbage. Putin is garbage. Biden is garbage! I want nothing to do with the Marxist totalitarians you support on the left.

---

It is not the same thing in this instance. He was far more involved with Russia's plan for Ukrraine than just "political opposition." There actually was a pending treason case against him. (Do, I know the in's and outs of that...no).

Dude, Im not a leftist at all. You say you don't...but yet...you are whatabouting yourself right into siding with them.

12th Man Stan Account said:

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Arresting someone who had plans to sabotage Ukraine's democracy and aid the Russians is not "arresting political opposition." He was a spy planning to collaborate with the Russians. We arrest spies here in the US too.

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Yeah, I'm not seeing that it was only political opposition in play here. It was closer to espionage and treason.

Can't remember the name of town at the moment but city officials are being arrested for handing the keys to their city (figuratively) to the Russians when they advanced. Vichy French stuff, collaborators like WWII.

12th Man Stan Account said:

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Arresting someone who had plans to sabotage Ukraine's democracy and aid the Russians is not "arresting political opposition." He was a spy planning to collaborate with the Russians. We arrest spies here in the US too.

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Lol, oh yeah. Like how Putin accuses his opposition of being spies. Ukraine is a corrupt crap hole. They consistently rank as the most corrupt nation in Europe, second only to Russia itself. They are no better than Russia.

I seem to recall you lefties claiming that Trump was an agent of Russia.

aggiehawg said:

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12th Man Stan Account said:

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Arresting someone who had plans to sabotage Ukraine's democracy and aid the Russians is not "arresting political opposition." He was a spy planning to collaborate with the Russians. We arrest spies here in the US too.

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Yeah, I'm not seeing that it was only political opposition in play here. It was closer to espionage and treason.

Can't remember the name of town at the moment but city officials are being arrested for handing the keys to their city (figuratively) to the Russians when they advanced. Vichy French stuff, collaborators like WWII.

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Of course it was espionage and treason, not simply political opposition. I don't believe a single thing that comes from the government of Russia or Ukraine. They are two sides of the same coin.

Marcus Brutus said:

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12th Man Stan Account said:

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Arresting someone who had plans to sabotage Ukraine's democracy and aid the Russians is not "arresting political opposition." He was a spy planning to collaborate with the Russians. We arrest spies here in the US too.

---

Lol, oh yeah. Like how Putin accuses his opposition of being spies. Ukraine is a corrupt crap hole. They consistently rank as the most corrupt nation in Europe, second only to Russia itself. They are no better than Russia.

I seem to recall you lefties claiming that Trump was an agent of Russia.

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What we know about Medvedchuk plotting with the Russians comes directly from US intelligence. This was not just Ukraine jailing political dissidents.

Ukraine only just overthrew their corrupt dictator in 2014. It takes time to root out corruption but they are heading in the right direction.

Also, I voted for Trump and don't think he's a Russian asset. You know what they say about assumptions...

12th Man Stan Account said:

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This conflict is simple. It's a battle of Good vs. Evil. No, nothing feels fishy about it.

Who cares if Ukraine is using propaganda? It's a valid and useful tool in war.

Some of you spend way too much time in your political echo chambers. It's not good for your mind.

---

Harry Reid speaks from the grave.

Marcus Brutus said:

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12th Man Stan Account said:

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Arresting someone who had plans to sabotage Ukraine's democracy and aid the Russians is not "arresting political opposition." He was a spy planning to collaborate with the Russians. We arrest spies here in the US too.

---

Lol, oh yeah. Like how Putin accuses his opposition of being spies. Ukraine is a corrupt crap hole. They consistently rank as the most corrupt nation in Europe, second only to Russia itself. They are no better than Russia.

I seem to recall you lefties claiming that Trump was an agent of Russia.

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Unlike many former Soviet satellite states, Ukraine has had a tougher time ditching the old corrupt Soviet system. They allowed Soros to take the role of the Soviets in terms of keeping the corruption going. Too many natural resources to stop that from happening. And it wasn't just Soros. The IMF had a hand in it as well. And we all know what Biden did to get the poorest former government official, Shokin, fired.

Ukraine's judiciary is also subject to bribery and corruption.

Good thing Hunter Biden s no longer on the Board at Burisma, else his bank accounts could be frozen, too.

Still may be.

12th Man Stan Account said:

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Marcus Brutus said:

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12th Man Stan Account said:

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Arresting someone who had plans to sabotage Ukraine's democracy and aid the Russians is not "arresting political opposition." He was a spy planning to collaborate with the Russians. We arrest spies here in the US too.

---

Lol, oh yeah. Like how Putin accuses his opposition of being spies. Ukraine is a corrupt crap hole. They consistently rank as the most corrupt nation in Europe, second only to Russia itself. They are no better than Russia.

I seem to recall you lefties claiming that Trump was an agent of Russia.

---

What we know about Medvedchuk plotting with the Russians comes directly from US intelligence. This was not just Ukraine jailing political dissidents.

Ukraine only just overthrew their corrupt dictator in 2014. It takes time to root out corruption but they are heading in the right direction.

Also, I voted for Trump and don't think he's a Russian asset. You know what they say about assumptions...

---

Those same intelligence agencies that accused Carter Page of being a Russian spy? The intelligence agencies that accused the Russians of hacking DNC emails based on a 3rd party security firm with ties to Ukraine? So you believe Hillary Clinton on that one, yes? The same intelligence agencies that said Saddam Hussein had WMDs?

I assumed you are a lefty because of the content of your posts.

Marcus Brutus said:

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12th Man Stan Account said:

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Marcus Brutus said:

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12th Man Stan Account said:

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Arresting someone who had plans to sabotage Ukraine's democracy and aid the Russians is not "arresting political opposition." He was a spy planning to collaborate with the Russians. We arrest spies here in the US too.

---

Lol, oh yeah. Like how Putin accuses his opposition of being spies. Ukraine is a corrupt crap hole. They consistently rank as the most corrupt nation in Europe, second only to Russia itself. They are no better than Russia.

I seem to recall you lefties claiming that Trump was an agent of Russia.

---

What we know about Medvedchuk plotting with the Russians comes directly from US intelligence. This was not just Ukraine jailing political dissidents.

Ukraine only just overthrew their corrupt dictator in 2014. It takes time to root out corruption but they are heading in the right direction.

Also, I voted for Trump and don't think he's a Russian asset. You know what they say about assumptions...

---

Those same intelligence agencies that accused Carter Page of being a Russian spy? The intelligence agencies that accused the Russians of hacking DNC emails based on a 3rd party security firm with ties to Ukraine? So you believe Hillary Clinton on that one, yes? The same intelligence agencies that said Saddam Hussein had WMDs?

I assumed you are a lefty because of the content of your posts.

---

Not denying that US intelligence has made mistakes. But so far they've been spot on with regard to the Ukrainian crisis. We've known since November that the Kremlin was considering this invasion. We knew when they had made the final decision to invade and that the invasion was imminent, even though our European allies didn't believe us. They knew about plans to install a puppet government in Kyiv. IMO they've built up credibility for this conflict in particular.

Marcus Brutus said:

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Tex117 said:

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NicosMachine said:

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Tex117 said:

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Jay Reimenschneider said:

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Tex117 said:

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Some of you truly are lost.

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When will it be enough for you, friend? What will it take fir you to see that there are lies? I don't know what the lies mean, but I still know a lie. Are you unable to see?

---

Lie? What lie.

Russia, a destabilizing bad actor force and nuclear power invaded a pro-western democracy. That's it.

You have lost your mind.

---

Russia sucks, but let's not pretend Ukraine is Hong Kong. It is one of the most corrupt countries in the world. The President's opposition leader is under house arrest and several major media outlets were shut down due to criticism of the President and his party. That said, borders mean something and hopefully Russia is not successful in its invasion of Ukraine. Maybe the economic pressure brought to bear on Russia will result in Putin's downfall, but the U.S. has no military interest there. My son doesn't need to be sent to defend Ukraine borders.

---

I think that opposition leader, Viktor Medvedchuk, may have escaped house arrest...and he had direct ties with the Kremlin...So, yeah...not an issue with that house arrest.

---

Wow, just wow. Wow wow wow!

Are these the western values you were advocating for in the other thread?

Arresting political opposition?

That sounds a lot like what Putin does, but I'm told he's evil and Ukraine is good. No, Ukraine is garbage. Putin is garbage. Biden is garbage! I want nothing to do with the Marxist totalitarians you support on the left.

---

No! Putin arrests innocent people. Ukraine only arrests and holds guilty people without trial.

It's crazy, because Bernie Sanders cozied up with the Soviet Union at the height of the Cold War. He honeymooned there! Nobody thought to arrest him. We just met him in the arena of ideas. The same could be said for many. There is a Communist Party USA that exist openly. There are Nazis in America. They are ostracized because their ideas are bad, they aren't jailed.

an interesting take, he maybe right.

https://www.brighteon.com/e8b9d706-5cbc-45f6-bfc4-395472b56081

NicosMachine said:

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TXCityAggie said:

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Propaganda has always been a part of war. That doesn't make it a conspiracy.

---

But the U.S. media did not promulgate Soviet and German propaganda in WWII. They promulgated U.S. propaganda. Now, the U.S. media promulgates propaganda from every country but the one they hate the most, the U.S. They can't bear to do that.

---

This can't be a serious post.

12th Man Stan Account said:

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Marcus Brutus said:

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12th Man Stan Account said:

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Marcus Brutus said:

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12th Man Stan Account said:

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Arresting someone who had plans to sabotage Ukraine's democracy and aid the Russians is not "arresting political opposition." He was a spy planning to collaborate with the Russians. We arrest spies here in the US too.

---

Lol, oh yeah. Like how Putin accuses his opposition of being spies. Ukraine is a corrupt crap hole. They consistently rank as the most corrupt nation in Europe, second only to Russia itself. They are no better than Russia.

I seem to recall you lefties claiming that Trump was an agent of Russia.

---

What we know about Medvedchuk plotting with the Russians comes directly from US intelligence. This was not just Ukraine jailing political dissidents.

Ukraine only just overthrew their corrupt dictator in 2014. It takes time to root out corruption but they are heading in the right direction.

Also, I voted for Trump and don't think he's a Russian asset. You know what they say about assumptions...

---

Those same intelligence agencies that accused Carter Page of being a Russian spy? The intelligence agencies that accused the Russians of hacking DNC emails based on a 3rd party security firm with ties to Ukraine? So you believe Hillary Clinton on that one, yes? The same intelligence agencies that said Saddam Hussein had WMDs?

I assumed you are a lefty because of the content of your posts.

---

Not denying that US intelligence has made mistakes. But so far they've been spot on with regard to the Ukrainian crisis. We've known since November that the Kremlin was considering this invasion. We knew when they had made the final decision to invade and that the invasion was imminent, even though our European allies didn't believe us. They new about plans to install a puppet government in Kyiv. IMO they've built up credibility for this conflict in particular.

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It's been more than spot on. It totally messed up Putin's attempt to make Russia appear as a liberator.

OPAG said:

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an interesting take, he maybe right.

https://www.brighteon.com/e8b9d706-5cbc-45f6-bfc4-395472b56081

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Guy uploading video from a hotel room in Kiev.

Solid analysis here.

Worth the watch.

NicosMachine said:

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There are many fake stories, propaganda, going around - the Ghost of Kiev, the 13 soldiers who died on Snake Island, the bandaged teacher, the video of Russian planes flying over Kiev (it was actually Moscow), Zelensky visiting the troops video (which was from over a year ago), the Luhansk Power Station explosion (was actually video from China in 2015). I don't know if it's unusual in times of war, but sorting through the propaganda in an age of instant communication is difficult.

---

Curious about the Zelensky with troops video. Have a link? I've just seen the picture of him with food, etc.

OPAG said:

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an interesting take, he maybe right.

https://www.brighteon.com/e8b9d706-5cbc-45f6-bfc4-395472b56081

---

I watched that video and have some comments.

He makes valid points about the siege tactics that are now being employed by the Russians. But this is only a recent shift (last 24 hours) in their plan. Their initial plan was absolutely to storm to Kyiv and get this wrapped up in 24-48 hours. They expected the Ukrainian government to crumble similar to the Afghan government upon the US withdrawal from Afghanistan. They underestimated the resolve of the government, armed forces, & civilian population to oppose them. This exposed their lack of foresight in logistical planning, with Russian soldiers running out of rations & tanks running out of fuel. This is why they are now taking a step back to regroup & try this new strategy of laying siege.

With regard to forced conscription of Ukrainians, it doesn't sit well with me either. But I dispute his claim that the refugees are fleeing the Zelensky regime. He might have anecdotal evidence of some men fleeing forced conscription, but the overwhelming majority of refugees are fleeing out of fear of the Russians. There were miles-long traffic jams of citizens fleeing Kyiv well before the forced conscription was announced.

My strongest disagreement is with his characterization of the Zelensky regime being evil/irresponsible for encouraging civilians to take up arms against the Russians. I believe that it is a fundamental human right to be able to take up arms against tyranny. And make no mistake, the majority of these civilians view the Russians as tyrants and are willing to die fighting for Ukraine rather than live under a puppet regime installed by Putin. We've seen many, many videos of Ukrainian citizens chastising the Russians & trying to stop tanks with their bare hands. That's a level of patriotism I can respect. I think it's pretty cynical to suggest that Zelensky's regime is using these civilian casualties as nothing more than a photo op to spur international outrage.

Just my two cents.

OG UNF said:

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Choices for whose side to be on:

1. Putin, Rooskies

2. Corporate media
Biden, Democrats
Romney, Neocons
Nevertrumpers, Warhawks,
Globalists, EU

3. Neither, not care, gas is >$3/gal, inflation >10%

---

Been mulling this over all day man.

You right.

This is the Globalists v. Russia

Ain't no other way to dice it.

I'm in camp 3

This business is gonna get out of control, and fast.

Quote:

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There were miles-long traffic jams of citizens fleeing Kyiv well before the forced conscription was announced.

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I think if I had a wife and kids and I knew there was a possibility that they may get caught up in a battle or bombing, I think I might try to leave period. It would not matter to me whether or not I was pro or anti Russian or Zelensky, My loyalty is to my family and kids first and foremost!

OPAG said:

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Quote:

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There were miles-long traffic jams of citizens fleeing Kyiv well before the forced conscription was announced.

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I think if I had a wife and kids and I knew there was a possibility that they may get caught up in a battle or bombing, I think I might try to leave period. It would not matter to me whether or not I was pro or anti Russian or Zelensky, My loyalty is to my family and kids first and foremost!

---

Of course, as it should be. A lot of men put their families on the train to Lviv while they stayed behind to fight. Seen many images/videos of refugees waiting to cross the border to Poland, and it appears to be 90% women & children.

BassCowboy33 said:

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NicosMachine said:

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TXCityAggie said:

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Propaganda has always been a part of war. That doesn't make it a conspiracy.

---

But the U.S. media did not promulgate Soviet and German propaganda in WWII. They promulgated U.S. propaganda. Now, the U.S. media promulgates propaganda from every country but the one they hate the most, the U.S. They can't bear to do that.

---

This can't be a serious post.

---

It is serious that in WWII, the U.S. education system, entertainment industry, and major media did not unthinkingly regurgitate foreign propaganda. Those institutions currently suffer from serious oikaphobia. By and large, they'd be pained to propagandize for the United States. That is why such a large percentage of American adults think other countries are better than the U.S.

AgsMyDude said:

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NicosMachine said:

---

There are many fake stories, propaganda, going around - the Ghost of Kiev, the 13 soldiers who died on Snake Island, the bandaged teacher, the video of Russian planes flying over Kiev (it was actually Moscow), Zelensky visiting the troops video (which was from over a year ago), the Luhansk Power Station explosion (was actually video from China in 2015). I don't know if it's unusual in times of war, but sorting through the propaganda in an age of instant communication is difficult.

---

Curious about the Zelensky with troops video. Have a link? I've just seen the picture of him with food, etc.

---

The video of him going around having tea with the troops was from 2016.

12th Man Stan Account said:

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OPAG said:

---

an interesting take, he maybe right.

https://www.brighteon.com/e8b9d706-5cbc-45f6-bfc4-395472b56081

---

I watched that video and have some comments.

He makes valid points about the siege tactics that are now being employed by the Russians. But this is only a recent shift (last 24 hours) in their plan. Their initial plan was absolutely to storm to Kyiv and get this wrapped up in 24-48 hours. They expected the Ukrainian government to crumble similar to the Afghan government upon the US withdrawal from Afghanistan. They underestimated the resolve of the government, armed forces, & civilian population to oppose them. This exposed their lack of foresight in logistical planning, with Russian soldiers running out of rations & tanks running out of fuel. This is why they are now taking a step back to regroup & try this new strategy of laying siege.

With regard to forced conscription of Ukrainians, it doesn't sit well with me either. But I dispute his claim that the refugees are fleeing the Zelensky regime. He might have anecdotal evidence of some men fleeing forced conscription, but the overwhelming majority of refugees are fleeing out of fear of th. There were miles-long traffic jams of citizens fleeing Kyiv well before the forced conscription was announced.

My strongest disagreement is with his characterization of the Zelensky regime being evil/irresponsible for encouraging civilians to take up arms against the Russians. I believe that it is a fundamental human right to be able to take up arms against tyranny. And make no mistake, the majority of these civilians view the Russians as tyrants and are willing to die fighting for Ukraine rather than live under a puppet regime installed by Putin. We've seen many, many videos of Ukrainian citizens chastising the Russians & trying to stop tanks with their bare hands. That's a level of patriotism I can respect. I think it's pretty cynical to suggest that Zelensky's regime is using these civilian casualties as nothing more than a photo op to spur international outrage.

Just my two cents.

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I now think the guy is a Russia plant.

Notice no one is coming to their aid, no country. Send bullets and egging em on, but not our blood as u r on ur on.