Eliminatus said:

---

74OA said:

---

AlaskanAg99 said:

---

AtticusMatlock said:

---

AlaskanAg99 said:

---

I do not fully grasp why radar guided guns aren't being used. Slap 4 .50cal and have them placed near high value targets for close in defense. Won't do anything against ballistic missles but slow drones should be easy pickings.

---

They are. They have a few dozen German Gepard systems.

---

Need to be simpler. The Gepards fire expensive ammo. Need mass produced cheap rounds.

---

Its timed fragmentation rounds are what make Gepard so effective and allow it to service targets cost effectively.

---

It's also key in urban areas. I know the job is protect the facility but I would be VERY hesitant to let a belt or two of .50 rip over an urban area if I were a gunner. There is no way I would be able to live with myself if I killed a fellow countryman over it. Shrapnel from airbusts is one thing (at least a few people have died this way over the years) but just spraying bullets is another.

---

It's war. People will die.

They need a cheap and plentiful defense option.
A Shahed drone cost about $20k. Missles are expensive.

With a network of radar guided guns they could mount a cost effective defense network. Save the missles for knocking down enemy manned aircraft.

Squadron of the Vietnam era Skyraiders would chew drones up.

The ultimate problem is still detection and then interdiction.

I imagine creating a new radar guided gun system is also pretty expensive. If you're going to incur the expense of a radar guided system, you're better off with something bigger than 12.7mm anyway.

There are lots of videos of Ukrainians using non radar guided AA guns on drones.

Also lots of footage of Ukraine downing drones with APKWS, which is closer to a one to one cost trade off

https://www.twz.com/land/laser-rocket-anti-drone-systems-being-rushed-to-u-s-forces-in-the-middle-east

i is smart said:

---

Are discussions about the Shahed drones typically focused on a particular model, or are there variations depending on the target? I'm trying to Google it, but it's a bit confusing attempting to understand how they're deploying them against the Ukrainians specifically.

---

Wikipedia seems to have some information, however reliable that might be.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shahed_drones

PJYoung said:

---

Quote:

---

a Top Golf is better protected from drones than this.

---

---

I wont be surprised when we start seeing tethered blimps around assets.

I have no real understanding of radar or aircraft detection but I believe our MIC is in R&D or I at least hope they are in development of our long duration UAV flyers that can detect & then either C&C enemy drone demise or directly engage.

I would love to see a skyraider comeback but they cant touch the duration and pilotless capabilities of a Reaper.

Latest Defence Intelligence update on the situation in Ukraine – 27 April 2024.

Find out more about Defence Intelligence's use of language: https://t.co/scUbq0JRWK #StandWithUkraine 🇺🇦 pic.twitter.com/zJHgf0C9wS

— Ministry of Defence 🇬🇧 (@DefenceHQ) April 27, 2024

Shahed drone production in Russia has massively scaled up over the past 18 months. The new version, the jet powered 238 has only been seen a few times I believe.

Russian channels report a night attack on an air defense base in Crimea, Cape Tarkhantut, using democratic ATACMS missiles.

The same missiles were allegedly used to successfully destroy the S-400 system in Dzhankoy earlier. pic.twitter.com/wfyyVUz8yI

— WarTranslated (Dmitri) (@wartranslated) April 28, 2024

Ukraine has lost 80% of its thermal power generation and 35% of its hydroelectric capacity due to Russian attacks https://t.co/aNycQKKXl5

— marqs (@MarQs__) April 28, 2024

ISW: RUSSIAN OFFENSIVE CAMPAIGN ASSESSMENT, APRIL 27, 2024

Quote:

---

Key Takeaways:

• Russian forces will likely make significant tactical gains in the coming weeks as Ukraine waits for US security assistance to arrive at the front but remains unlikely to overwhelm Ukrainian defenses.
• Well-provisioned Ukrainian forces will likely be able to prevent operationally significant Russian advances during Russia's expected summer offensive effort, although Russian forces will nevertheless leverage select advantages and adaptations to pose a significant threat to Ukraine this summer.
• The tempo of Russian offensive operations is currently higher in the Avdiivka direction than near Chasiv Yar, as Russian forces focus on exploiting a tactical situation that is unfavorable to Ukrainian troops northwest of Avdiivka. Russian forces are likely to intensify offensive operations near Chasiv Yar in the coming weeks, however, as Chasiv Yar provides Russian forces with the opportunity for more operationally significant advances.
• Russian forces conducted large-scale cruise and ballistic missile strikes against Ukraine on the night of April 26 to 27 and have likely resumed sea based Kalibr cruise missile strikes after a long pause.
• Ukrainian forces successfully conducted drone strikes against a Russian airfield and oil refineries in Krasnodar Krai on the night of April 26 to 27.
• The Russian federal government continues efforts to codify increased control over migrant communities living in Russia.
• The Kremlin is likely setting conditions to intensify its hybrid operations against Moldova.
• Russian forces recently made confirmed advances north of Avdiivka and west of Donetsk City.
• Russian federal subjects continue to sponsor Russian military formations.

---

JFABNRGR said:

---

The ultimate problem is still detection and then interdiction.

---

How many different locations do these drone launch and how long do they have to interdict, a few minutes or half an hour or more. The V-1 attacks on Britain during WWII. British fighters intercepted and shot them down or flew next to them and just nudged them with their wings to tip them over. A.50 cal would definitely do the job. Better yet would be short range, low cost AA missiles on a cheap airframe.

US purchases 81 ex-Soviet fighters from Kazakhstan. Primarily for parts for Ukraine it seems.

JETS

Italy to send Storm Shadow/SCALP cruise missiles to Ukraine like those provided by France and UK. With the US finally acknowledging giving ATACMS, the pressure is really amping up on Germany to provide long range weapons.

RANGE

Quote:

---

Ukrainian military had 112 combat engagements with Russian forces near Berestove of Kharkiv region and Stelmakhivka of Luhansk region, Kopanky, Novoserhiyivka of Kharkiv region, Makiyivka, Nevske, Serebryanske forestry of Luhansk region, Terny of Donetsk region, Verkhnokamyanske, Vyyimka, Hryhorivka, Ivanivske, Klischiyivka, Novyy, Andriyivka of Donetsk region, Novokalynove, Keramik, Arkhanhelske, Umanske, Sokil, Ocheretyne, Kalynove, Solovyove, Novopokrovske, Novoselivka Persha and Semenivka of Donetsk region, Krasnohorivka, Heorhiyivka, Vodyane, Novomykhaylivka, Urozhayne of Donetsk region, Staromayorske of Donetsk region, Krynky of Kherson region, - General Staff of Armed Forces of Ukraine says in the evening report

---

https://liveuamap.com/en/2024/28-april-ukrainian-military-had-112-combat-engagements-with

112 combat engagements is about double what we've seen most days.

Quote:

---

Ukrainian military seized control over Nestryha island in Kherson region, - commander-in-chief Syrsky

---

https://liveuamap.com/en/2024/28-april-ukrainian-military-seized-control-over-nestryha

Quote:

---

Russian air defense shot down 5 ATACMS missiles and 46 drones in one day, - the Russian Ministry of Defense claims

---

https://liveuamap.com/en/2024/28-april-russian-air-defense-shot-down-5-atacms-missiles

Yeah, okay.

Old info, reported 19 hours ago on LiveUAMap:

Quote:

---

Air defense positions were reportedly targeted in a missile strike at Tarkhankut peninsula of occupied Crimea

---

https://liveuamap.com/en/2024/28-april-air-defense-positions-were-reportedly-targeted-in

74OA said:

---

Italy to send Storm Shadow/SCALP cruise missiles to Ukraine like those provided by France and UK. With the US finally acknowledging giving ATACMS, the pressure is really amping up on Germany to provide long range weapons.

RANGE

---

Not sure how much more pressure can be applied at this point. There are direct attacks against the German Chancellor's courage by now from Cabinet level personnel of allied nations and he has still been adamantly ham fisted with Taurus missiles. The initial reason given was German personnel would be directly needed at launch airfields to accurately program the vector data needed but have since seen several reports that indicate that this was either never the case or that requirement had been circumvented by now.

I am still convinced Olaf is scared of escalation, as Taurus would undoubtedly be used against the Kerch bridge. Politics is so weird. Germany has been good to great, comparatively speaking, about giving lethal aid, EXCEPT when it comes to the weapon that would have been most effective of all, especially about a year ago.

I hope it happens, but I am going to chalk it up to "I will believe when I see it" category, as nothing to date has indicated otherwise. Will love to eat crow on that.

74OA said:

---

US purchases 81 ex-Soviet fighters from Kazakhstan. Primarily for parts for Ukraine it seems.

JETS

---

Averaging around $20K per. Not bad.

I've tried to look it up in the past but was never able to ascertain Ukraine's internal capacity for keeping these things in the air. I believe they HAD the capacity to build complete cargo aircraft and similar and even had a deal with Boeing at one point prewar to help in that endeavor by supplying parts that used to be exclusively sourced from Russia but haven't seen where that deal went, if anywhere. I think that capability stagnated away though like most of post Soviet factories in the breakaway nations. Don't think they had any capability for fighters and attack craft either.

My question to those who may have first hand knowledge, how tight are the tolerances for repairs and parts for aircraft such as these older airframes? I've seen some pretty wild field "fixes" in my time on ground vehicles that actually worked well enough in the moment. Is it the same realm for aircraft from the 70's and 80's, outside proprietary electronic boards, etc? I know it won't be the same level as say a Humvee of course, but more than I would assume a 4th gen aircraft?

This is the current situation north of avdiivka. pic.twitter.com/mshwwE1R0Y

— Andrew Perpetua (@AndrewPerpetua) April 29, 2024

Eliminatus said:

---

74OA said:

---

US purchases 81 ex-Soviet fighters from Kazakhstan. Primarily for parts for Ukraine it seems.

JETS

---

Averaging around $20K per. Not bad.

I've tried to look it up in the past but was never able to ascertain Ukraine's internal capacity for keeping these things in the air. I believe they HAD the capacity to build complete cargo aircraft and similar and even had a deal with Boeing at one point prewar to help in that endeavor by supplying parts that used to be exclusively sourced from Russia but haven't seen where that deal went, if anywhere. I think that capability stagnated away though like most of post Soviet factories in the breakaway nations. Don't think they had any capability for fighters and attack craft either.

My question to those who may have first hand knowledge, how tight are the tolerances for repairs and parts for aircraft such as these older airframes? I've seen some pretty wild field "fixes" in my time on ground vehicles that actually worked well enough in the moment. Is it the same realm for aircraft from the 70's and 80's, outside proprietary electronic boards, etc? I know it won't be the same level as say a Humvee of course, but more than I would assume a 4th gen aircraft?

---

Articles refer to these fighters as "unusable". However, I'd be surprised if Ukraine hadn't sent a tech team to examine the 81 for their utility before agreeing to spend $2M+ of valuable aid money on them. To what extent Ukraine is willing to take the risk of cobbling something flyable from such worn materiel is unknown. At a minimum it's getting a large influx of parts and decoy frames, eventually making some flyable would be a bonus.

74OA said:

---

Eliminatus said:

---

74OA said:

---

US purchases 81 ex-Soviet fighters from Kazakhstan. Primarily for parts for Ukraine it seems.

JETS

---

Averaging around $20K per. Not bad.

I've tried to look it up in the past but was never able to ascertain Ukraine's internal capacity for keeping these things in the air. I believe they HAD the capacity to build complete cargo aircraft and similar and even had a deal with Boeing at one point prewar to help in that endeavor by supplying parts that used to be exclusively sourced from Russia but haven't seen where that deal went, if anywhere. I think that capability stagnated away though like most of post Soviet factories in the breakaway nations. Don't think they had any capability for fighters and attack craft either.

My question to those who may have first hand knowledge, how tight are the tolerances for repairs and parts for aircraft such as these older airframes? I've seen some pretty wild field "fixes" in my time on ground vehicles that actually worked well enough in the moment. Is it the same realm for aircraft from the 70's and 80's, outside proprietary electronic boards, etc? I know it won't be the same level as say a Humvee of course, but more than I would assume a 4th gen aircraft?

---

Articles refer to these fighters as "unusable". However, I'd be surprised if Ukraine hadn't sent a tech team to examine the 81 for their utility before agreeing to spend $2M+ of valuable aid money on them. To what extent Ukraine is willing to take the risk of cobbling something flyable from such worn materiel is unknown. At a minimum it's getting a large influx of parts and decoy frames, eventually making some flyable would be a bonus.

---

At that price maybe load them up with explosives and figure out a way to remotely fly them into Russia as kamikazes.

At a minimum it allows the Ukes to keep their current planes in the air and flying when maintenance parts are hard to come by.

They can also be used as decoys at Uke airfields. Let Russia expend cruise missiles for a $20K pile of parts if they want.

I think the coming few months are going to be the most critical period in over 2 years. According to deepstates map RU forces are doing advances every day in the sector between Vuhledar and Horlivka. Most noticeable is the Ocheretyne salient which poses a serious threat. https://t.co/yOsWjKWths

— Def Mon (@DefMon3) April 29, 2024

The unnecessary six-month delay in replenishing Ukraine's munitions stocks, particularly artillery shells and SAMs, has created a window of opportunity for Russia. Resupply can't happen quick enough.

Today's SITREP.

Campaign updates. Scroll down to "Key Takeaways."

ISW

Israel is retiring its eight Patriot batteries over the next two months. Ukraine has only three batteries, so getting all or some would be a huge bump to its air defense.

PATRIOT

We keep seeing headlines of air defense systems and radars being destroyed in Crimea and other nearby regions. How long before this takes it's toll and Russia has little to no air defense left?

CS78 said:

---

We keep seeing headlines of air defense systems and radars being destroyed in Crimea and other nearby regions. How long before this takes its toll and Russia has little to no air defense left?

---

Russia is a massive country making it practically impossible to cover their entire territory so every air defense loss just opens or expands another hole for Ukraine to exploit.

If you're asking when will F16s be able to operate unopposed over Russian airspace? It won't happen. But they may be able to execute a few well planned strike missions.

https://www.politico.eu/article/vladimir-putin-russia-diesel-prices-skyrocket-ukraine-war-drone-strikes-oil-refineries/
Need to keep pounding the refineries

Looks like they were able to hit another one last night. Fairly close to Moscow. Burn baby burn!!!

lol Russians trying to claim they shot down 6 ATACMS

https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2024/04/30/ukraine-war-live-updates-latest-news-on-russia-and-the-war-in-ukraine.html

Quote:

---

In a Google-translated update on Telegram, Russia's defense ministry said that air defense systems had, in the past 24 hours, "shot down ... six ATACMS operational-tactical missiles made in the USA." It added that Ukrainian drones and French-made "Hammer" guided bombs had also been shot down.

The ministry did not provide evidence for the claim.

---

Looks as though Ukraine will start operating F-16s in May.

SURPRISE

That would explain the recent focus on orc ADA being knocked out.

JFABNRGR said:

---

That would explain the recent focus on orc ADA being knocked out.

---

And hitting their air bases trying to push their fighters back from the front lines.

AgLA06 said:

---

JFABNRGR said:

---

That would explain the recent focus on orc ADA being knocked out.

---

And hitting their air bases trying to push their fighters back from the front lines.

---

That being said hows the air to air comparison F16 versus russian top 3 commonly used AC and does it matter if Orc A50 supporting or not?

It would be suicide to use old F16's in an air superiority roll.