Training slots. They are booked years in advance and by law can't be allocated to foreign operators over US ones. And maintenance/spares training/planning. It's no where near as simple as 'teach the mig pilot to convert/fly the F-16.' They finally got it all arranged with various Europeans to do much of the training as a consequence of a lack of US slots. Some of this also had to be dovetailed into deliveries/initial operating capabilities with F-35's they are replacing them with (as with the Danes again).benchmark said:So, after months and months of footdragging ... the US is now moving rapidly to get F16's to Ukraine. What's changed since 6 months ago?docb said:
LinkQuote:
National security adviser Jake Sullivan said on Friday the U.S. is "moving rapidly" to get F-16s to Ukraine.
***Russian - Ukraine War Tactical and Strategic Updates*** [Warning on OP]
7,544,961 Views |
47727 Replies |
Last: 2 hrs ago by 74OA
If were now sending F16s prior to end of year doesn't this mean UKe pilots have already been training?
What role do you flyboys mainly see the F16 playing in this war? And how well given current conditions do you see this and to what ranges across the front?
Anti-ship?
Ground support?
Point target destruction?
Air to air?
What role do you flyboys mainly see the F16 playing in this war? And how well given current conditions do you see this and to what ranges across the front?
Anti-ship?
Ground support?
Point target destruction?
Air to air?
LMCane said:
"We've mentioned Igor Girkin a bunch of times over the past year. He's a prominent Russian nationalist who was in favor of the war in Ukraine but who has become an outspoken critic of the military leadership and, more recently, of Putin himself.
In some ways, Girkin has a lot in common with Yevgeny Prigozhin. Like Prigozhin he has a following and has gone from supporter to critic. Today, Girkin was arrested for extremist activities.
Russian security services have detained Igor Girkin a supporter of the war against Ukraine who has become a vocal critic of how the Kremlin has handled the invasion and accused him of extremism.
Girkin, a prominent nationalist and former FSB intelligence officer who led Russia's covert invasion under the guise of support for separatists in eastern Ukraine in 2014, became increasingly scathing in his criticism of Moscow's handling of the full-scale campaign launched nearly 17 months ago, and has called for Vladimir Putin to step down as Russian president.
Russian state media on Friday showed pictures of Girkin in a Moscow courtroom behind a glass wall. It said the state was accusing Girkin of "public calls to carry out extremist activities on the internet"
www.hotair.com
Arrested for "political divergencies"? They eat their own. A fascist critical of how fascist policy was implemented. Not satisfied with the pace or efficiency of the murder. So sad….
I imagine "guns" like this will become standard squad issue in most armies.
A soldier of the 47th mechanized brigade in a recently liberated trench. The usage of an anti-drone gun is visible. pic.twitter.com/YtMvB1QJPY
— NOELREPORTS 🇪🇺 🇺🇦 (@NOELreports) July 22, 2023
PlaneCrashGuy said:benchmark said:So, after months and months of footdragging ... the US is now moving rapidly to get F16's to Ukraine. What's changed since 6 months ago?docb said:
LinkQuote:
National security adviser Jake Sullivan said on Friday the U.S. is "moving rapidly" to get F-16s to Ukraine.
The offensive has stalled. F16 Air support is needed if it will have any chance at resuming.
Ukraine has gained the initiative on the frontlines, Volodymyr Havrylov, Deputy Defense Minister of Ukraine, said on Telegram on July 22. https://t.co/69xrBSuh3A
— The New Voice of Ukraine (@NewVoiceUkraine) July 22, 2023
Multiple reports today indicate the counteroffensive is likely about to accelerate. I think what actually happened is that Ukraine decided it was better to use precision to turn the conflict into attrition over the last month. That means targetting supply lines for Russia and finding and eliminating high value targets with artillery and HIMARs. That's distinctly different than "stalling" because it was likely a strategic choice.
It's similar to the Kherson offensive. A lot of people proclaimed a lot of things and were impatient.... Yet Ukraine ultimately reached their objective. It just wasn't in meat wave attacks like Russia used in Bakhmut.
This war is likely to last years at this point. There are no shortcuts.
There are also private companies like Top Aces that can provide instruction. https://www.topaces.com/our-fleet/lockheed-martin-f-16a/nortex97 said:Training slots. They are booked years in advance and by law can't be allocated to foreign operators over US ones. And maintenance/spares training/planning. It's no where near as simple as 'teach the mig pilot to convert/fly the F-16.' They finally got it all arranged with various Europeans to do much of the training as a consequence of a lack of US slots. Some of this also had to be dovetailed into deliveries/initial operating capabilities with F-35's they are replacing them with (as with the Danes again).benchmark said:So, after months and months of footdragging ... the US is now moving rapidly to get F16's to Ukraine. What's changed since 6 months ago?docb said:
LinkQuote:
National security adviser Jake Sullivan said on Friday the U.S. is "moving rapidly" to get F-16s to Ukraine.
Gordo14 said:PlaneCrashGuy said:benchmark said:So, after months and months of footdragging ... the US is now moving rapidly to get F16's to Ukraine. What's changed since 6 months ago?docb said:
LinkQuote:
National security adviser Jake Sullivan said on Friday the U.S. is "moving rapidly" to get F-16s to Ukraine.
The offensive has stalled. F16 Air support is needed if it will have any chance at resuming.Ukraine has gained the initiative on the frontlines, Volodymyr Havrylov, Deputy Defense Minister of Ukraine, said on Telegram on July 22. https://t.co/69xrBSuh3A
— The New Voice of Ukraine (@NewVoiceUkraine) July 22, 2023
Multiple reports today indicate the counteroffensive is likely about to accelerate. I think what actually happened is that Ukraine decided it was better to use precision to turn the conflict into attrition over the last month. That means targetting supy lines for Russia and finding and eliminating high value targets with artillery and HIMARs. That's distinctly different than "stalling" because it was likely a strategic choice.
It's similar to the Kherson offensive. A lot of people proclaimed a lot of things and were impatient.... Yet Ukraine ultimately reached their objective. It just wasn't in meat wave attacks like Russia used in Bakhmut.
This war is likely to last years at this point. There are no shortcuts.
You're right in that it'll take years.
I remember when Russia started losing ground last year, there were many military experts who were saying that if Ukraine was going to win, it would take years and likely into the next administration.
There are in fact two things, science and opinion; the former begets knowledge, the later ignorance. Hippocrates
Interesting breakdown of US artillery DPICM shells.
"Each munition contains 88 M77 submunitions, each of which has a lethal range of about 10 square meters. This means one shell can impact an area of up to 18,000 square meters, depending on the height set for the release of the submunitions. This compares with the blast and fragmentation area from a standard high explosive 155mm artillery round of around 7,000 square meters."
I also read something that says the current US DPICM submunitions distribute in a random pattern rather than in the classic "doughnut" shape that leave a large hole in the middle of the explosive pattern. Can anyone confirm?
CLUSTER
"Each munition contains 88 M77 submunitions, each of which has a lethal range of about 10 square meters. This means one shell can impact an area of up to 18,000 square meters, depending on the height set for the release of the submunitions. This compares with the blast and fragmentation area from a standard high explosive 155mm artillery round of around 7,000 square meters."
I also read something that says the current US DPICM submunitions distribute in a random pattern rather than in the classic "doughnut" shape that leave a large hole in the middle of the explosive pattern. Can anyone confirm?
CLUSTER
74OA said:
Interesting breakdown of US artillery DPICM shells.
"Each munition contains 88 M77 submunitions, each of which has a lethal range of about 10 square meters. This means one shell can impact an area of up to 18,000 square meters, depending on the height set for the release of the submunitions. This compares with the blast and fragmentation area from a standard high explosive 155mm artillery round of around 7,000 square meters."
I also read something that says the current US DPICM submunitions distribute in a random pattern rather than in the classic "doughnut" shape that leave a large hole in the middle of the explosive pattern. Can anyone confirm?
CLUSTER
Interesting. 155 has a blast radius of 50 meters. These things basically drop a crapload of grenades over the span of 2 football fields.
Here's a bit on how the German original took out British cities for weeks at a time
Russian Defense Officials have stated that a Ukrainian “Kamikaze” Drone Attack this morning against the Krasnogvardeysky District of Central Crimea caused Severe Damage to an Arms and Oil Depot used by the Russian Black Sea’s Fleet; as a result of the Explosions and subsequent… pic.twitter.com/9fKJNalP4n
— OSINTdefender (@sentdefender) July 22, 2023
Note industrial benchmarks remain a minimum spec to meet requirements. This means an operative ceiling is by definition likely far higher, and for most Western forces has never really been explored due to operational realities. Ukraine on the other hand uses equipment to its max.
— Alex Luck (@AlexLuck9) July 21, 2023
Good summary by @David_Hambling of the latest military drones Ukraine operates via United24 effort. https://t.co/powilkrVHK
— Samuel Bendett (@sambendett) July 21, 2023
As others have said here previously, the Ukraine fight more resembles the WWII Normandy campaign than it does the extended stalemate of WWI.
WINNABLE
WINNABLE
Polish Media is reporting that the Repair and Restoration Facility for Western Equipment in the City of Gliwice is now Operational with at least 2 Leopard 2A4 Tanks which suffered Damage during Fighting in Ukraine already said to have Arrived for Repairs. pic.twitter.com/cfkZbvneqY
— OSINTdefender (@sentdefender) July 22, 2023
Impressive. Just think what they could do if we gave them a few hundred ATACMS.74OA said:
Huge explosions rock Russian ammo depot in Crimea.
Good comparison. Normandy hedgerows bogged us down for nearly 3 months and limited our advantage in air and armor. Also a reminder - this is day 44 of the Uke counteroffensive and the Desert Storm ground war didn't start until day 43.74OA said:
As others have said here previously, the Ukraine fight more resembles the WWII Normandy campaign than it does the extended stalemate of WWI.
Footage from the City of Sevastopol in Russian-Occupied Crimea showing the launch of 3M54-1 “Kalibr” and P-800 “Oniks” Cruise Missiles from Naval Ships off the Western Coast. pic.twitter.com/NMcrg8gwCc
— OSINTdefender (@sentdefender) July 22, 2023
Speaking of missile launches.
https://liveuamap.com/en/2023/22-july-explosions-were-reported-in-odesa-after-suspectedQuote:
Explosions were reported in Odesa after suspected Kh-22 missiles launches by Tu-22 bombers
Whatever it was, linkee no workee now.
https://liveuamap.com/en/2023/22-july-explosions-were-reported-in-odesa-after-suspectedQuote:
Explosions were reported in Odesa after suspected Kh-22 missiles launches by Tu-22 bombers
https://liveuamap.com/en/2023/23-july-as-a-result-of-a-missile-attack-the-holy-transfigurationQuote:
As a result of a missile attack, the Holy Transfiguration Cathedral in Odesa was destroyed - the city council. 1 person killed
https://liveuamap.com/en/2023/23-july-widespread-damage-at-least-22-wounded-as-result-ofQuote:
Widespread damage, at least 22 wounded as result of Russian missile strikes in Odesa
https://liveuamap.com/en/2023/23-july-russian-army-used-kaliber-onyx-kh22-iskanderk-andQuote:
Russian army used Kaliber, Onyx, Kh-22, Iskander-K and Iskander-M missiles overnight to attack Odesa. Damage to civilian infrastructure and residential houses. 1 person killed, 19 wounded
❗️Here we go….Ukrainian telegram channel "Resident": "MI-6 transmitted new intelligence to the Office of the President and the General Staff of Ukraine that the Kremlin has decided to use its arsenal of cluster munitions in Ukraine in full. The Russian military has begun… pic.twitter.com/FmoudguRtp
— Zlatti71 (@djuric_zlatko) July 21, 2023
Footage showing the reported Destruction of a Ukrainian Arms Depot near the Town of Chudnov in the Zhytomyr Region sometime between the Dates of July 17th and 19th as the result of a Russian Shahed-136 “Kamikaze” Drone Strike. pic.twitter.com/XIE3Ai4HZn
— OSINTdefender (@sentdefender) July 21, 2023
More......74OA said:
Twists and turns.........The CEO of #Rheinmetall, in response to the threats of the Russians, said that he plans to protect his plant in #Ukraine with his own air defense systems. pic.twitter.com/nKgsgFjEY2
— NEXTA (@nexta_tv) July 21, 2023
The Rheinmetall 🇩🇪 production plant being opened in Ukraine 🇺🇦 will be protected by Rheinmetall's own air defense systems, said the company’s CEO Armin Papperger (BILD) pic.twitter.com/pjvCSJ3Bfs
— Ukraine Battle Map (@ukraine_map) July 21, 2023
Those look nasty74OA said:More......74OA said:
Twists and turns.........The CEO of #Rheinmetall, in response to the threats of the Russians, said that he plans to protect his plant in #Ukraine with his own air defense systems. pic.twitter.com/nKgsgFjEY2
— NEXTA (@nexta_tv) July 21, 2023The Rheinmetall 🇩🇪 production plant being opened in Ukraine 🇺🇦 will be protected by Rheinmetall's own air defense systems, said the company’s CEO Armin Papperger (BILD) pic.twitter.com/pjvCSJ3Bfs
— Ukraine Battle Map (@ukraine_map) July 21, 2023
Company I-1, Ord-Ords '85 -12thFan and Websider-
Quote:
Russian artillery shelled Chasiv Yar with cluster ammunition, targeted humanitarian aid center
https://liveuamap.com/en/2023/23-july-russian-artillery-shelled-chasiv-yar-with-cluster
DCPD158 said:Those look nasty74OA said:More......74OA said:
Twists and turns.........The CEO of #Rheinmetall, in response to the threats of the Russians, said that he plans to protect his plant in #Ukraine with his own air defense systems. pic.twitter.com/nKgsgFjEY2
— NEXTA (@nexta_tv) July 21, 2023The Rheinmetall 🇩🇪 production plant being opened in Ukraine 🇺🇦 will be protected by Rheinmetall's own air defense systems, said the company’s CEO Armin Papperger (BILD) pic.twitter.com/pjvCSJ3Bfs
— Ukraine Battle Map (@ukraine_map) July 21, 2023
Very.
There are in fact two things, science and opinion; the former begets knowledge, the later ignorance. Hippocrates
benchmark said:Good comparison. Normandy hedgerows bogged us down for nearly 3 months and limited our advantage in air and armor. Also a reminder - this is day 44 of the Uke counteroffensive and the Desert Storm ground war didn't start until day 43.74OA said:
As others have said here previously, the Ukraine fight more resembles the WWII Normandy campaign than it does the extended stalemate of WWI.
Great reminder. Here's to things only getting better from here.
There are in fact two things, science and opinion; the former begets knowledge, the later ignorance. Hippocrates
Remember the med who knelt on a mine video?
Here is the story, plus comments on mines and Bradleys.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/small-hidden-and-deadly-mines-stymie-ukraine-s-counteroffensive/ar-AA1eehXv?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=f17c029ec1284af584f3fe07cd68d192&ei=21
Here is the story, plus comments on mines and Bradleys.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/small-hidden-and-deadly-mines-stymie-ukraine-s-counteroffensive/ar-AA1eehXv?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=f17c029ec1284af584f3fe07cd68d192&ei=21
Doesn't take much of an opening to ruin someone's day.
Elimination of a russian observation point using drone-dropped ordinance pic.twitter.com/4Se0BgIvNv
— Mr. Parrot ™ (@parrot_soldier) July 23, 2023
Italy's Meloni has been a pleasant surprise.
One of the largest opposition parties in Italy, the 5 Star Movement, continues to call on Meloni to stop sending weapons to Ukraine
— Visegrád 24 (@visegrad24) July 23, 2023
Some of them even claim that it would make it possible for Russia to win the war and thus the killing would stop
Meloni answers like a boss!
🇮🇹🇺🇦 pic.twitter.com/NWd7gOoPQN
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