***Russian - Ukraine War Tactical and Strategic Updates*** [Warning on OP]

7,712,591 Views | 48138 Replies | Last: 54 min ago by Eliminatus
74OA
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Since the war started, the rest of Europe has expelled over 400 suspected Russian agents. Not Hungary.

"Over 50 accredited diplomats are currently working at the Russian Embassy in Budapest, while just over 20 are working in Prague, Warsaw and Bratislava put together."

SPY HUB
Rossticus
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Hungarian and German social and political elites both want so badly to be aligned with the Russians and Chinese because of the money it'll stuff their pockets with. The ultimate sovereignty of their nations are a small price to pay.
Not a Bot
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GAC06
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We talk about this yet? Sorry if already posted, huge munitions acquisition by us.

https://breakingdefense.com/2022/12/house-senate-defense-authorizers-agree-to-multi-year-muntion-buys/

Some surprises in there, 1700 ATACMS especially. I thought those were out of production and the Precision Strike Missile is supposed to reach IOC in 2023.

Huge AA missile (but less than mentioned a month or so ago) and Harpoon buys suggests a China focus and perhaps a general pork fest for defense.

Also, 106,000 GMLRS, holy crap
Waffledynamics
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Quote:

Explosions were reported in Klintsy and Klimovo of Bryansk region
https://liveuamap.com/en/2022/12-december-explosions-were-reported-in-klintsy-and-klimovo


AlaskanAg99
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Burning through 40 year old ammo. And it fails often.

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/burning-through-ammo-russia-using-40-year-old-rounds-us-official-says-2022-12-12/

"WASHINGTON, Dec 12 (Reuters) - Russia is turning to decades-old ammunition with high failure rates as it burns through its stockpiles to carry out its nearly 10-month-old invasion of Ukraine, a senior U.S. military official said on Monday.

"They have drawn from (Russia's) aging ammunition stockpile, which does indicate that they are willing to use that older ammunition, some of which was originally produced more than 40 years ago," the official said, speaking on condition of anonymity."
aTm '99
Waffledynamics
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Yeesh. At 3:01, Rob shows a clip from a Russian combat instructor that demonstrates the recruits' lack of resources. Their body armor consists of two plates. That's it. They get no thermal underwear, and little to no medicine.

At 4:15, Putin puts on his best Baghdad Bob impersonation.



At 6:23, we have an intercepted phone call. General Surovikin visited the location of one of the people on the call. He says that new recruitment began in the city of Penza, aimed primarily at artillerymen. It's said that the new mobilization wave cannot begin until that one ends on December 1st (obviously, this call is a bit old). The soldier in the field says that only 52 people out of 1,000 in his 3rd Regiment in Luhansk remained after a catastrophic failure.

At 14:34, Rob gets into some map updates. Ukraine has taken back some land in the Northern portion of the country, along the P66 highway, North of Kreminna. This area has been traded back and forth a few times now. Ukraine is looking like they'll be able to hold this gain a bit better. Keep in mind that if Kreminna/Svatove are taken or that route is interrupted, it will be a lot more difficult to resupply places like Severodonetsk and Lysychansk, perhaps even Bakhmut. Also, coming up into Kreminna from the South is difficult because the terrain favors Russia.

Bakhmut is still a meat grinder. No point to Russia's attempts there.

At 18:44, we see a Uke counteroffensive in response to a failed Russian attack resulted in some Uke gains in the South. While Ukraine is not poised to make any significant gains, it does speak to Russia's inability to really push there.
MouthBQ98
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Ukraine might be served to push a mobile reserve in behind a failed Russian attack. I would assume they would not be ready for an aggressive counterattack and the staging for the attacking unit might leave a void in the defense that could be exploited for a penetration. I suppose it is difficult to stage for that type of counterattack without drawing stroller that is supporting the initial attack.
Waffledynamics
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MouthBQ98 said:

Ukraine might be served to push a mobile reserve in behind a failed Russian attack. I would assume they would not be ready for an aggressive counterattack and the staging for the attacking unit might leave a void in the defense that could be exploited for a penetration. I suppose it is difficult to stage for that type of counterattack without drawing stroller that is supporting the initial attack.
Do I understand correctly that you're referring to the 18:44 mark in the video I just posted? See my post directly above yours that describes what happened there.
Smeghead4761
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74OA said:


I mean, I've seen a bunch of photos of those same launchers mounted on the backs of Toyota Hi-Luxes in Libya, Syria, and various places in Africa. Usually just a single launcher, though.
Smeghead4761
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AlaskanAg99 said:

Burning through 40 year old ammo. And it fails often.

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/burning-through-ammo-russia-using-40-year-old-rounds-us-official-says-2022-12-12/

"WASHINGTON, Dec 12 (Reuters) - Russia is turning to decades-old ammunition with high failure rates as it burns through its stockpiles to carry out its nearly 10-month-old invasion of Ukraine, a senior U.S. military official said on Monday.

"They have drawn from (Russia's) aging ammunition stockpile, which does indicate that they are willing to use that older ammunition, some of which was originally produced more than 40 years ago," the official said, speaking on condition of anonymity."
I've got several crates and spam cans of the part of that stockpile Russia was happy to sell to American gun retailers pre-2014. All of it I've tried using went bang. Although I haven't broken open the 1960s vintage crate.
Ulysses90
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I'm guessing none of that ammo you bought is of the semanate loading or seni-fixed variety where you have to handle powder bags that are exposed to air and moisture.
MouthBQ98
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Didn't watch the video, just my observation that the Russian attacks are sloppy and disorganized and they expect to put Ukraine on the defensive but once the attack breaks down and the Russian plan for that day is broken, they have to be most vulnerable as they attempt to withdraw and are probably disorganized behind the withdrawals without a good defense ready. Mostly their artillery plan would be set up to support an offensive action and not a defensive one and they may have fired much of their ready allocation of ammunition as the attack drags on.

The idea is once you get them withdrawing, keep them under pressure and hope any reserve or covering unit isn't expecting itself to come under attack. I suppose the ability to do that is logistically limited.
MouthBQ98
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I have 600+ rounds of 7.62x54R made in Bulgaria in 1955. Every single one has fired normally so far. Many explosives are chemically pretty stable, usually for the worse when the fighting is over and there are mines and unexploded ordinance buried everywhere.

Old Russian ammunition that was properly stored should be fine. If it has gotten wet and corroded or if it is sophisticated ordinance instead of a simple shell or cartridge, there might be components that don't work so well.
Ulysses90
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A lot of Russian ammo isn't stored or handled well even in peacetime. It's not the small arms or even HMG ammo that would be a concern for reliability but rather the artillery propellant bags and solid rocket motors. That stuff needs really good moisture control to be reliable.

These are old photos but still jaw dropping not only because of the open-air storage but because there probably isn't a forklift pallet within 500 miles of where these were taken. It's all hand stacked because Russia.









The Fife
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My assumption is that there were storage problems due to simple neglect. Kept someplace cool with high humidity without anyone really checking on things for extended periods = corrosion.

edit: beaten to the punch but wow! I assumed the idiots would have at least thought to put them in a warehouse, or at least underneath a pavilion of some kind.
AlaskanAg99
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Years/decades ago entire weapons depots inside Russia were exploding due to poor storage conditions.

Not at war, 1 goes off, they all go off.

Now let's hope more of this stuff explodes in their launch tunes and kills their crews as well.
aTm '99
74OA
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Today's SITREP.
The Fife
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Apologies if this is getting off topic but I just assume this is a byproduct of living under communism? Making huge amounts of ammo, shells, and explosives as part of a make-work program to keep workers busy. This being driven by bad memories of WW2, along with those evil capitalists to the west and across the Pacific who they feel may invade at any time.

So they end up making the stuff at a far greater rate than which it's consumed due to the inherent flaws and corruption in their system. There isn't any incentive or motivation for someone to actually take care of all the stuff that factories are pumping out so "just go stack it up over there with the rest of the explosives we're neglecting!" Why maintain things when they just send us more anyway.

I guess the upside for Ukraine for all of this is that it means that the Russians are playing actual Russian roulette each time they try and use this crap, but to the layman behind the keyboard over here it's the stupidest kind of situation they've gotten themselves into. Maybe this is why I haven't been reading so much about Russian artillery in the last month or so?
aezmvp
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The other part is the strategy here. You are looking at mass conscription armies so large artillery groups firing mountains of shells doesn't take as long to train that red team. By stock piling shells you can have an effective artillery program by firing more shells than having to expensively train artillery troops to use precision munitions. Doesn't mean better, just effective.
Waffledynamics
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AgLA06
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Unless they have the ability to detect what type of weapon each incoming is and separate engaging ballistic missiles with Patriot and similar and engage less sophisticated with similar, this may just be make things more complicated.
Waffledynamics
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GAC06
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They can distinguish a ballistic missile from a slow moving drone
2wealfth Man
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Anyone think the fact Japan is procuring 200 or so Tomahawks (which is a really big deal strategically that is being way underreported) has any overtones towards Russia. China seems to be the main issue here but the Russians have a lot of interests in the far east as well and a well armed Japan could be another layer of deterrent to any further misadventures by Putin. Russia now bracketed by a well armed Ukraine and Japan.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/12/12/japan-tomahawk-missiles-ukraine-war/
74OA
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Lots of chatter about potentially sending Patriots to Ukraine. Would finally provide a reliable TBM defense.

SAM
FriscoKid
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Waffledynamics said:


I thought we were really worried about these systems falling into the wrong hands? Don't want to be giving up secret technology here.
GAC06
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Presumably they're intended for ballistic missile defense and would be in rear areas far from the front lines and unlikely to be captured. There is always the insider/espionage threat
SouthTex99
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No Spin Ag
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AlaskanAg99 said:

Years/decades ago entire weapons depots inside Russia were exploding due to poor storage conditions.

Not at war, 1 goes off, they all go off.

Now let's hope more of this stuff explodes in their launch tunes and kills their crews as well.
74OA
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Today's SITREP.
Smeghead4761
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The Fife said:

Apologies if this is getting off topic but I just assume this is a byproduct of living under communism? Making huge amounts of ammo, shells, and explosives as part of a make-work program to keep workers busy. This being driven by bad memories of WW2, along with those evil capitalists to the west and across the Pacific who they feel may invade at any time.

So they end up making the stuff at a far greater rate than which it's consumed due to the inherent flaws and corruption in their system. There isn't any incentive or motivation for someone to actually take care of all the stuff that factories are pumping out so "just go stack it up over there with the rest of the explosives we're neglecting!" Why maintain things when they just send us more anyway.

I guess the upside for Ukraine for all of this is that it means that the Russians are playing actual Russian roulette each time they try and use this crap, but to the layman behind the keyboard over here it's the stupidest kind of situation they've gotten themselves into. Maybe this is why I haven't been reading so much about Russian artillery in the last month or so?
The post-Soviet weapons stockpiles are indeed a product of the Soviet communist economic system. Production quotas for everything from pistols to tanks were set from on high without regard to how many of them the Red Army actually needed, resulting in massive over production. C.J. Chivers talks about this on a micro scale looking specifically at the AK series rifles in his book The Gun. I recall stories in the mid- to late-90s, early 2000s that AKs could be had for $50 in sub-Saharan Africa, due in large part to post-Soviet states (including Ukraine) dumping the contents of military depots to raise badly needed cash.

I also remember back pre-2010 when Mosin-Nagant 91/30s and M44s could be had for less than $75, for the same reason.

The Tsarist Russians/Soviets/current Russians do have a deep cultural paranoia about foreign invasion, going all the way back to Genghis Khan, to Kublai Kahn, Tamerlane, to Napoleon, and finally Hitler. Not totally unjustified, either. That's also part of the reason they store away weapons like squirrels with nuts. Although, as shown, they're less than diligent about keeping them usuable.
Waffledynamics
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Quote:

President Zelensky: air defense shot down 13 of 13 Shahed drones used in attack against Kyiv this morning


https://liveuamap.com/en/2022/14-december-president-zelensky-air-defense-shot-down-13-of
P.U.T.U
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With what? If that is true they got a lot better in a short time shooting those things down
LMCane
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Waffledynamics said:

Quote:

President Zelensky: air defense shot down 13 of 13 Shahed drones used in attack against Kyiv this morning


https://liveuamap.com/en/2022/14-december-president-zelensky-air-defense-shot-down-13-of
Denys Davidov late last week was posting stories that the UFA believed the Shaheds would not work correctly in the bitter cold and that was why the Russkies were no longer firing Iranian UAV into the cities

hopefully the weather is degrading them, and the Ukes are getting a more integrated SAM system into place
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