Since all of our F-117s are in mothballs currently, could we not lend or sell a few of them to Ukraine? It's 40 year old technology, but it's still a stealth attack jet.

ABATTBQ11 said:

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Ulysses90 said:

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AgLA06 said:

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Ulysses90 said:

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Here's the link to that article on the Ukrainian GIS Arta cloud based fire direction app.

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1523791050313433088.html

It was by Trent Telenko. The Joint Staff needs to call him out of retirement and hire him to be on the Red Team. His Twitter feed is better than a Tom Clancy novel for the insight he brings to seemingly innocuous or hard to locate information.

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This app seems amazing. Something so simple, but effectively cutting edge compared to traditional military capabilities (including ours).

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As a former government acquistion program manager I have to just give credit to Telenko for pointing out the most obvious reason that a cloud hosted app like GIS-Arta would never be considered as a solution in the US DoD. There is no need for a Lead Systems Integrator like Lockheed Marton, Northrop Grumman, Raytheon, General Dynamics. How do the big guys make any money for their shareholders off of an app that could run innocuously and anonymously from Azure, Google Cloud, or AWS with clients connected over Starlink. That's boring as **** and worse than that, unprofitable.

Perhaps when Ukraine eventually debuts at NATO as a member nation they should just take over the role of Supreme Allied Commander for a few years to teach some lessons about stewardship of resources while under fire. Ike was right.

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Well, there upsides and downsides. Russia used an android implant in a Ukrainian artillery app to track Ukrainian artillery positions in 2014. I'm sure they've learned lessons since, but in a conflict at this scale that kind of breach could be catastrophic.

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In the ThreadReader unroll in the link above, Telenko asserts that the 2014 hack never happened and was simply Russian disinformation to discredit the Ukrainians.

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Western Intelligence is either ignorant or discounts the "GIS Arta" app because of a CROWDSTRIKE cybersecurity firm December 22, 2016 article claiming the Russians hacked "GIS Arta."
12/
docs.voanews.eu/en-US/2017/03/…
And that the "Fancy Bear" group used the same hacking method to to get into the DNC.

The problem is that hacking of the "GIS Arta" app CROWDSTRIKE claimed never happened.

The VOA did a takedown here:
voanews.com/a/crowdstrike-…
13/ Image
Think Tank: Cyber Firm at Center of Russian Hacking Charges Misread Data
Influential British think tank, Ukraine's military dispute US cybersecurity firm report used to buttress claims of Russian hacking in presidential election

https://www.voanews.com/a/crowdstrike-comey-russia-hack-dnc-clinton-trump/3776067.html

I knew that CrowdStrike co-founder Dimiti Alperovitc was lying at the time because of a summer 2015 OSINT investigation I did of the strange Ukrainian artillery concentrations hitting DNR forces in Donbas.

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Gilligan said:

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Is Telegram a social media app?

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Sorta.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telegram_(software)

JR_83 said:

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Since all of our F-117s are in mothballs currently, could we not lend or sell a few of them to Ukraine? It's 40 year old technology, but it's still a stealth attack jet.

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In this scenario I doubt stealth would be needed. Also I'd imagine there would be a mountain of maintenance, parts, and logistics to get them airworthy again on our end and even moreso on theirs in addition to training for pilots and mechanics.

More trouble than it's worth

The Fife said:

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JR_83 said:

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Since all of our F-117s are in mothballs currently, could we not lend or sell a few of them to Ukraine? It's 40 year old technology, but it's still a stealth attack jet.

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In this scenario I doubt stealth would be needed. Also I'd imagine there would be a mountain of maintenance, parts, and logistics to get them airworthy again on our end and even moreso on theirs in addition to training for pilots and mechanics.

More trouble than it's worth

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Did not know these jets were no longer being used, get them serviceable and give them to Ukraine..let Ukraine bomb some Russian cities across the border and give the Russians a taste of what they are doing to Ukraine . Take out some Russian ships while they are at it

https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/comments/x7qgo3/ukrainians_paying_their_respects_to_a_fallen_hero/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

These are not a people that will go quietly into the night. Reminds me of the common wisdom, "It's not the size of the dog in the fight that matters, ... It's the size of the fight in the dog".

ABATTBQ11 said:

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JR_83 said:

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Since all of our F-117s are in mothballs currently, could we not lend or sell a few of them to Ukraine? It's 40 year old technology, but it's still a stealth attack jet.

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They are not in mothballs. They are still in active use as testing and red team aircraft.

Even still, no way we ever let them go. 40 year old technology or not, it's classified AF.

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More good info, so no way we ever left these jets go

Thanks

Good write up on the F117 done a few years ago

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/33733/the-stealthy-f-117-nighthawk-could-have-executed-nuclear-strikes-against-the-soviet-union

SwigAg11 said:

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I'm very curious what kind of software updates the Ukes could be making. Just looking through the HIMARS information page on Wikipedia, it's been used in the Middle East by the US, but in a very limited basis.

Is this possibly an example of Necessity is the Mother of Invention, and the Ukes are doing everything they can to reduce fire times to protect the HIMARS units they have?

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I am reasonably confident that what they have done is not really modifying the technical fire direction software but rather they have removed the human in the loop steps for clearance of fire missions at the Fire Support Coordination Center (FSCC).

When a CFF message is sent with a target location and description, the software can generate the fire solution for the rocket or gun without human intervention. However, that direct sensor to shooter link is usually mediated by the FSCC in the middle where someone is checking the grid to ensure that a fire mission isn't being called on misidentified friendlies or a church or something else that would be undesirable. The FSC or his delegate normally clears each fire mission. I am guessing that the Ukrainians have decided that they have accumulated so much experience and vest so much trust in their forces that they have removed the FSCC from their procedures and made the path from the observer to the gun as straight and fast as possible.

Even back in the days of "charts & darts" gunnery in WW2, Korea, and Vietnam (where unencrypted radio rather than Starlink was used) it was not uncommon for a quick-fire loop between to FO and FDC be established for maximum speed at certain places and times for direct support artillery. A good FDC could "announce deflection and quadrant" in under 20 seconds after the target grid was plotted and a hot gun crew could have the breech closed with "bubbles level" in 20 seconds or less.

F-117s are being used to test new skins for stealth craft. The DoD has been working on very shiny new paint for the F-22 and F-35.

The materials used to make the stealth coatings is ungodly toxic when it burns. Ask the Serbs that got close to the burning wreckage of the F-117 that was shot down in 1998. You only make the mistake one time.

JR_83 said:

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Since all of our F-117s are in mothballs currently, could we not lend or sell a few of them to Ukraine? It's 40 year old technology, but it's still a stealth attack jet.

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Or we could give the Ukes ATACMS missiles and allow them to thunderstrike every high value Orc target on Ukrainian soil.

Thanks for the cliff notes!

Norway will donate Hellfire missiles to Ukraine. The donation includes approximately 160 missiles, launching pads and guidance units. Ukraine will also receive night-vision equipment drawn from Armed Forces inventories.https://t.co/kybMl1Uvna pic.twitter.com/wo2Q74LM7i

— Forsvarsdepartement (@Forsvarsdep) September 8, 2022

Anyone know the significance of this?

Russian Air Force Antonov An-148-100E RA-61716 en route to #Crimea. pic.twitter.com/0dgTSmwgcZ

— Manu Gómez (@GDarkconrad) September 8, 2022

Other than it being for the Russia Ministry of Defense no clue, probably getting officers out of the area

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Representative of General staff of Armed forces of Ukraine says over 20 settlements were liberated in Kharkiv region, in some areas penetration in Russian defense positions up to 50 kms

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https://liveuamap.com/en/2022/8-september-representative-of-general-staff-of-armed-forces

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Big Russian military convoy filmed in Melitopol on Kakhovske highway towards Kherson

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https://liveuamap.com/en/2022/8-september-big-russian-military-convoy-filmed-in-melitopol

⚡️⚡️⚡️ 14.05 колона российских фашистов движется в сторону Херсонской области по Каховскому шоссе. pic.twitter.com/7q1zta4THq

— Apocalypto 🇺🇦 ❤️‍🔥 (@Apocalypto321) September 8, 2022

Interesting take on what's going on in the Kharkiv front.

Kharkiv counteroffensive analysis, 8 Sept.

Some claims online seem to indicate UA offensive is aimed at Kupyansk. That may be a later objective, but it's not main target now.

Target is Pervomaiske, town southeast of Shevchenkove.

(cont)

— Using Maps as Data Proxies (@MapsAsDataProxy) September 8, 2022

Full thread: https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1567768572398559233.html

Basically, Ukraine isn't going after Kupyansk, but the rail line in Pervomaiske. It is apparently a critical supply line for Russia.

Private PoopyPants said:

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F-117s are being used to test new skins for stealth craft. The DoD has been working on very shiny new paint for the F-22 and F-35.

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That looks cool as ****

Feels like you're watching the final scene of an action movie and the main character comes out with upgraded armor.

Also, sidenote, America would never hand over the F-117s just because they are 40 years old.

Most other countries still have very little stealth capabilities. No need to proliferate all the first round answers America worked hard to uncover. It was ironically a russian phd paper on radar reflection that got America going on the right track for stealth technology.

Giving it away just gives everyone who can get close enough with a tape measure real data on how to subvert radar.

one MEEN Ag said:

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Also, sidenote, America would never hand over the F-117s just because they are 40 years old.

Most other countries still have very little stealth capabilities. No need to proliferate all the first round answers America worked hard to uncover. It was ironically a russian phd paper on radar reflection that got America going on the right track for stealth technology.

Giving it away just gives everyone who can get close enough with a tape measure real data on how to subvert radar.

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The Russians and Chinese are still struggling to get started with the tech and no European defense manufacturer has come close either. Absolutely not.

Maybe a modern-day American Volunteer Group?

Also, are Ukrainians being trained to fly F-16s somewhere in Europe?

More videos now coming in from #Balakliya, #Kharkiv Oblast. pic.twitter.com/gK1FDZlPtm

— Anonymous Operations (@AnonOpsSE) September 8, 2022

one MEEN Ag said:

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Also, sidenote, America would never hand over the F-117s just because they are 40 years old.

Most other countries still have very little stealth capabilities. No need to proliferate all the first round answers America worked hard to uncover. It was ironically a russian phd paper on radar reflection that got America going on the right track for stealth technology.

Giving it away just gives everyone who can get close enough with a tape measure real data on how to subvert radar.

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Well, that paper got them on the right track for shaping the aircraft, but there's A LOT more to it than that. Coatings and other materials also play a very big part.

Waffledynamics said:

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There are reports, though they need corroboration, that Ukraine is reaching farther and farther East, even getting to Kupyansk. If this is true, they're indeed taking the important railway hub.

This precipitous collapse that even pro-Russian social media is panicking about is unbelievable if it's true. It's like the orcs are disintegrating with no way to stop.

I'm cautiously optimistic.

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More importantly those rumors mean Izium is cut off except for 2 bridges and a rail line over the river to the east. Should be pretty easy for Ukraine to fix those.

If they're actually getting to Kupiansk, that would represent a monumental collapse by the Russians. Even with all the advances over the past few days, they were still 15+ miles away. Not saying they can't get there in the coming days, just would be shocked by the speed

ABATTBQ11 said:

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one MEEN Ag said:

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Also, sidenote, America would never hand over the F-117s just because they are 40 years old.

Most other countries still have very little stealth capabilities. No need to proliferate all the first round answers America worked hard to uncover. It was ironically a russian phd paper on radar reflection that got America going on the right track for stealth technology.

Giving it away just gives everyone who can get close enough with a tape measure real data on how to subvert radar.

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Well, that paper got them on the right track for shaping the aircraft, but there's A LOT more to it than that. Coatings and other materials also play a very big part.

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Oh I'm not shortchanging any of the accomplishments of those engineering teams. Moving from a phd paper that says, 'angle this material away and radar won't reflect back to its emitter' and flying an aircraft that can incorporate those concepts are two completely separate things. That paper shined the light on a potentially enabling technology. Thats it. I think its funny that it was a russian paper. The final shapes that still allow you to fly and absorbing materials are their own feats. And not to mention that the F-117 had to develop a whole new level of fly by wire controls to keep it the air.

My stance is to not give anyone the F-117. Print off a copy of the old phd paper and tell anyone who wants stealth technology 'start here, you're welcome.'

So a local St Petersburg outlet posted this story and it’s still on Google cache but gone from the website pic.twitter.com/1DeZ2oGOx0

— Olga Lautman 🇺🇦 (@OlgaNYC1211) September 8, 2022

Ditto.

lots of faulty windows are found in the homes of the St Petersburg Deputies.

New elections (assignments) are being made.

TXAggie2011 said:

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If they're actually getting to Kupiansk, that would represent a monumental collapse by the Russians. Even with all the advances over the past few days, they were still 15+ miles away. Not saying they can't get there in the coming days, just would be shocked by the speed

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According to the below mentioned source, AFU got to the Hrushivka and outskirts of Kupiansk !https://t.co/qGpyZ9tms8#Kupiansk #Balakliya #Kharkiv #Shevchenkove pic.twitter.com/npBAbzAA4F

— Hyvää Päivää (@Hyvaa_Paiva) September 8, 2022

Getting Kupiansk is huge, but cutting it off from Izium by running to the river just south of it (or really Izium from it) sets up a huge problem for Russia and a chance for a route.