Yep. The frigates they still have possess enough anti-air capability to keep any kind of aerial attacks off of the subs at their launching points. Now if the orcs are dumb enough to go to the same place every time to fire off their cruise missiles, it might be interesting to head out that way with some moored mines next time they had back to Sevastopol to rearm.GAC06 said:aggiehawg said:Ukes have no planes that can drop sonar buoys or torpedoes?Rossticus said:aggiehawg said:
That's not good. What can the Ukes use to find and target subs?
Same thing they've been using thus far. Not a damn thing. Russians have been lobbing sub based missiles at them for a while.
Anti submarine warfare is very complex and specialized. They don't have the capability and even if they did they'd need control of the air and sea surface to do it
***Russian - Ukraine War Tactical and Strategic Updates*** [Warning on OP]
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Last: 2 hrs ago by Waffledynamics
Do these subs need to surface to fire their missiles? If not at what depth can they fire?GAC06 said:aggiehawg said:Ukes have no planes that can drop sonar buoys or torpedoes?Rossticus said:aggiehawg said:
That's not good. What can the Ukes use to find and target subs?
Same thing they've been using thus far. Not a damn thing. Russians have been lobbing sub based missiles at them for a while.
Anti submarine warfare is very complex and specialized. They don't have the capability and even if they did they'd need control of the air and sea surface to do it
Pretty sure they do not need to surface but would be relatively close to the surface. Kind of irrelevant here because once they're out of port Ukraine has basically no chance of knowing where they are
aggiehawg said:Do these subs need to surface to fire their missiles? If not at what depth can they fire?GAC06 said:aggiehawg said:Ukes have no planes that can drop sonar buoys or torpedoes?Rossticus said:aggiehawg said:
That's not good. What can the Ukes use to find and target subs?
Same thing they've been using thus far. Not a damn thing. Russians have been lobbing sub based missiles at them for a while.
Anti submarine warfare is very complex and specialized. They don't have the capability and even if they did they'd need control of the air and sea surface to do it
No. Deep enough to not be seen. Basically, the Ukrainians have nothing that could find or hit them, and no one is going to give it to them because that would require ships and/or a wide array of aircraft and sensors they don't know how to use. That's an entire area of naval combat and not something they can learn in a month or two.
Pretty much. You need a navy or air seperiority to take out subs. Most planes or helicopters designed to go after subs are slow moving which makes them easy targets for Russia's ships still in theatre. Ukraine doesn't have a navy so no point of talking about capabilities there, its nada.
Russia has been lobbing sub based missiles since they don't have they lost thier maid surface based asset anymore and Turkey won't let them bring any more in. Subs can come and go as they want
Russia has been lobbing sub based missiles since they don't have they lost thier maid surface based asset anymore and Turkey won't let them bring any more in. Subs can come and go as they want
Didn't we give them some drone boats??
They are also using standoff air-launched cruise missiles from the big bombers. They don't really want to get anywhere close to the targets they are trying to hit. It still amazes me that they haven't achieved air superiority.
Thanks. Not good news but thanks for the info.ABATTBQ11 said:aggiehawg said:Do these subs need to surface to fire their missiles? If not at what depth can they fire?GAC06 said:aggiehawg said:Ukes have no planes that can drop sonar buoys or torpedoes?Rossticus said:aggiehawg said:
That's not good. What can the Ukes use to find and target subs?
Same thing they've been using thus far. Not a damn thing. Russians have been lobbing sub based missiles at them for a while.
Anti submarine warfare is very complex and specialized. They don't have the capability and even if they did they'd need control of the air and sea surface to do it
No. Deep enough to not be seen. Basically, the Ukrainians have nothing that could find or hit them, and no one is going to give it to them because that would require ships and/or a wide array of aircraft and sensors they don't know how to use. That's an entire area of naval combat and not something they can learn in a month or two.
A few days ago there was a long thread posted about how fast the Ukes can acquire a target and get assets on it very quickly. We saw that in action with the Russian helicopter being blown up while delivering soldiers to Snake Island. So I was thinking that once a missile is launched it can be geolocated pretty quickly to detrmine the location and heading of the sub. Guess I have read too many Clancy books. LOL.
Depends on the type of launcher they use, but for US subs, firing depth is typically in the 20m range. As was said above, deep enough to still be invisible from the surface until the missiles are in the air. If they are doing repeated sorties in and out of Sevastopol, I would assume they are choosing a launch point based on the targeting package for their missiles, but it would be kind of par for the course for the orcs to be dumb enough to fire from the same place every time, which might give the Ukrainians a few outside the box options. I know our navy has some rocket assisted torpedoes that can be launched out beyond typical torpedo ranges, but I am not sure what the theoretical max range on something like that would be. Conceivably from a land based launcher, you might be able to send one of those a lot further out than the ship-based version if you had a good idea where you wanted the torpedo to start its search.aggiehawg said:Do these subs need to surface to fire their missiles? If not at what depth can they fire?GAC06 said:aggiehawg said:Ukes have no planes that can drop sonar buoys or torpedoes?Rossticus said:aggiehawg said:
That's not good. What can the Ukes use to find and target subs?
Same thing they've been using thus far. Not a damn thing. Russians have been lobbing sub based missiles at them for a while.
Anti submarine warfare is very complex and specialized. They don't have the capability and even if they did they'd need control of the air and sea surface to do it
The only thing that's going to directly take the subs out is to get them while they're in port. That's where much of Russia's Crimean air defense is concentrated. The Ruskies also increased security in the waters around Sevastopol and have moved some of their trained dolphins in. Very difficult target to hit. Long range, heavily defended.
Russia Bros insist that river crossing incident wasn't an incident and they won.
— Russians With Attitude (@RWApodcast) May 13, 2022
The best way would be to intercept the missile once it has been fired. I realize that the decision cycle would be shortened from the sea, but some sort of AA intercept is their best defense.
Today, unfortunately, many Americans have good reason to fear that they will be victimized if they are unable to protect themselves. And today, no less than in 1791, the Second Amendment guarantees their right to do so. - Justice Samuel Alito 2022
They are an innovative people for sure. Loitering drones with explosives? Probably not enough to destroy a sub but maybe could damage it.Quote:
If they are doing repeated sorties in and out of Sevastopol, I would assume they are choosing a launch point based on the targeting package for their missiles, but it would be kind of par for the course for the orcs to be dumb enough to fire from the same place every time, which might give the Ukrainians a few outside the box options.
And they tried twice to cross that river in the same place and got wiped out twice.
Looks like the Indians are working on a version that could go up to 400 miles, but most of the ones with known and proven capabilities seem to have around 10-60 mile ranges.txags92 said:Depends on the type of launcher they use, but for US subs, firing depth is typically in the 20m range. As was said above, deep enough to still be invisible from the surface until the missiles are in the air. If they are doing repeated sorties in and out of Sevastopol, I would assume they are choosing a launch point based on the targeting package for their missiles, but it would be kind of par for the course for the orcs to be dumb enough to fire from the same place every time, which might give the Ukrainians a few outside the box options. I know our navy has some rocket assisted torpedoes that can be launched out beyond typical torpedo ranges, but I am not sure what the theoretical max range on something like that would be. Conceivably from a land based launcher, you might be able to send one of those a lot further out than the ship-based version if you had a good idea where you wanted the torpedo to start its search.aggiehawg said:Do these subs need to surface to fire their missiles? If not at what depth can they fire?GAC06 said:aggiehawg said:Ukes have no planes that can drop sonar buoys or torpedoes?Rossticus said:aggiehawg said:
That's not good. What can the Ukes use to find and target subs?
Same thing they've been using thus far. Not a damn thing. Russians have been lobbing sub based missiles at them for a while.
Anti submarine warfare is very complex and specialized. They don't have the capability and even if they did they'd need control of the air and sea surface to do it
Captain Positivity said:
The only thing that's going to directly take the subs out is to get them while they're in port. That's where much of Russia's Crimean air defense is concentrated. The Ruskies also increased security in the waters around Sevastopol and have moved some of their trained dolphins in. Very difficult target to hit. Long range, heavily defended.
Bored and dorking out on google maps, there's a sizable SAM site just south of the port, looks like a lot of S-300/400's in revetments. Lots of fighters at the airbase just north too
155 mm, M777. #UAarmy uses them successfully. No other words are necessary. More visuals coming soon. Thanks to #US & @SecDef.
— Oleksii Reznikov (@oleksiireznikov) May 13, 2022
*sound of @RSprachrohr is a mandatory symbolic accompaniment after #Ramstein meeting pic.twitter.com/zFih85pb2F
Rossticus said:
Russia Bros insist that river crossing incident wasn't an incident and they won.— Russians With Attitude (@RWApodcast) May 13, 2022
Translation: Finally figured out a way to spin this humiliating defeat and loss of a whole battalion with some serious copage
txags92 said:Looks like the Indians are working on a version that could go up to 400 miles, but most of the ones with known and proven capabilities seem to have around 10-60 mile ranges.txags92 said:Depends on the type of launcher they use, but for US subs, firing depth is typically in the 20m range. As was said above, deep enough to still be invisible from the surface until the missiles are in the air. If they are doing repeated sorties in and out of Sevastopol, I would assume they are choosing a launch point based on the targeting package for their missiles, but it would be kind of par for the course for the orcs to be dumb enough to fire from the same place every time, which might give the Ukrainians a few outside the box options. I know our navy has some rocket assisted torpedoes that can be launched out beyond typical torpedo ranges, but I am not sure what the theoretical max range on something like that would be. Conceivably from a land based launcher, you might be able to send one of those a lot further out than the ship-based version if you had a good idea where you wanted the torpedo to start its search.aggiehawg said:Do these subs need to surface to fire their missiles? If not at what depth can they fire?GAC06 said:aggiehawg said:Ukes have no planes that can drop sonar buoys or torpedoes?Rossticus said:aggiehawg said:
That's not good. What can the Ukes use to find and target subs?
Same thing they've been using thus far. Not a damn thing. Russians have been lobbing sub based missiles at them for a while.
Anti submarine warfare is very complex and specialized. They don't have the capability and even if they did they'd need control of the air and sea surface to do it
They are getting some new cargo type drones some with an 800 lb payload. Maybe rig up sub killing torpedo and get lucky loitering at launch site. Would likely be very lucky and only get one opportunity.
ABATTBQ11 said:Rossticus said:
Russia Bros insist that river crossing incident wasn't an incident and they won.— Russians With Attitude (@RWApodcast) May 13, 2022
Translation: Finally figured out a way to spin this humiliating defeat and loss of a whole battalion with some serious copage
LiveUaMap is having some technical difficulties, but it did show that Russia has indeed crossed and possibly gotten a foothold. Not sure how accurate it is, but Russia Bros could be correct about at least part of this.
The problem with crossings like that is they are very dependent on their life lines. Not that the Ukes would have done this but if they did wreak a lot of havoc there, it's not as if they could allow then to get a foothold with arty range and then cut it off and pound it. I would do that based on the Russian's failure to make break throughs.Waffledynamics said:ABATTBQ11 said:Rossticus said:
Russia Bros insist that river crossing incident wasn't an incident and they won.— Russians With Attitude (@RWApodcast) May 13, 2022
Translation: Finally figured out a way to spin this humiliating defeat and loss of a whole battalion with some serious copage
LiveUaMap is having some technical difficulties, but it did show that Russia has indeed crossed and possibly gotten a foothold. Not sure how accurate it is, but Russia Bros could be correct about at least part of this.
Coming for Odessa?Rossticus said:
Another missile barrage on Ukrainian cities imminent.All of the Black Sea’s Fleets Kilo-Class Attack Submarines and possibly other Russian Navy Submarines have reportedly been put to Sea from the Port of Sevastopol today, all Kilo-Class Submarines are more than likely Fully-Armed with around 4 3M-54 Kalibr Cruise Missiles each. pic.twitter.com/EAF7Gh4ABg
— OSINTdefender (@sentdefender) May 13, 2022
There was discussion about Russian troops being able to see drones. This video proves they can and you even see them engage it with small arms. Didn't work this time though.
NSFW: You see a running Russian soldier take a direct hit. It doesn't show gore but wow......this is on par with that sunroof drop. Comment mentioned he should have zigged instead of zagged and honestly, that is just the way it goes sometime. Pretty graphic though still so I'll just post a link.
https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/uoyv7u/ukraines_59th_brigade_filmed_this_grenade_drop/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3
Drone warfare is hands down the next evolution of warfare. Not even a question anymore. Most predicted this of course and we have our own use over the years but still the wide use down at the tactical level is unprecedented in the direct combat role. It takes us billions to test, build, and field these massive drones that can take down a building and the Ukes just strap on some old grenades with 3D printed fins and go to town with commercial hobby drones. Very much a "Hold my beer" redneck solution but the ROI has to be insanely good. It's genius in it's own way.
NSFW: You see a running Russian soldier take a direct hit. It doesn't show gore but wow......this is on par with that sunroof drop. Comment mentioned he should have zigged instead of zagged and honestly, that is just the way it goes sometime. Pretty graphic though still so I'll just post a link.
https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/uoyv7u/ukraines_59th_brigade_filmed_this_grenade_drop/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3
Drone warfare is hands down the next evolution of warfare. Not even a question anymore. Most predicted this of course and we have our own use over the years but still the wide use down at the tactical level is unprecedented in the direct combat role. It takes us billions to test, build, and field these massive drones that can take down a building and the Ukes just strap on some old grenades with 3D printed fins and go to town with commercial hobby drones. Very much a "Hold my beer" redneck solution but the ROI has to be insanely good. It's genius in it's own way.
aezmvp said:The problem with crossings like that is they are very dependent on their life lines. Not that the Ukes would have done this but if they did wreak a lot of havoc there, it's not as if they could allow then to get a foothold with arty range and then cut it off and pound it. I would do that based on the Russian's failure to make break throughs.Waffledynamics said:ABATTBQ11 said:Rossticus said:
Russia Bros insist that river crossing incident wasn't an incident and they won.— Russians With Attitude (@RWApodcast) May 13, 2022
Translation: Finally figured out a way to spin this humiliating defeat and loss of a whole battalion with some serious copage
LiveUaMap is having some technical difficulties, but it did show that Russia has indeed crossed and possibly gotten a foothold. Not sure how accurate it is, but Russia Bros could be correct about at least part of this.
Reports earlier today that some had crossed but were also subsequently eliminated. We'll know how successful Russia was in realistic terms by whether or not any apparent progress stems from there or not.
Just getting some troops across the river isn't worth much. You have to get enough across to spread out and adequately protect the bridgehead so that you can continue to feed troops across and keep them all supplied. If you get a batch of troops across and then let their bridges get destroyed behind them, congrats you have just stranded a bunch of troops with no supplies.
As a people, they are amazing. Very industrious, creative and innovative.Quote:
It takes us billions to test, build, and field these massive drones that can take down a building and the Ukes just strap on some old grenades with 3D printed fins and go to town with commercial hobby drones. Very much a "Hold my beer" redneck solution but the ROI has to be insanely good. It's genius in it's own way.
The biggest problem for river crossings IMO is the modern ability to target them accurately in real time. Before drones and satellites an army could build a bridge, get across, and secure enough territory to prevent artillery observers from targeting the bridge relatively quickly.
These days a commercial off the shelf drone can hang out and direct a ****load of accurate artillery fire onto the bridge and associated choke point. Another game changer for modern warfare.
These days a commercial off the shelf drone can hang out and direct a ****load of accurate artillery fire onto the bridge and associated choke point. Another game changer for modern warfare.
I doubt we'd be seeing that kind of combat here though. They're talking close in, basically face to face tank combat at a river crossing. I highly doubt that. I think that kind of engagement would have vehicles much more spread out, and that's just not the kind of thing we'd expect to see here. No way in Hell the Russians are going to built a pontoon bridge under fire, so the only other explanation is they got across, but then the Ukrainians hit them with a big armor attack and pushed them back across the river instead of shelling the **** out of them from afar. That makes little sense.
Is there any video of Su-24s over Ukraine? I don't recall seeing any.Rossticus said:Satellite imagery from yesterday (May 12) shows 16 Su-25 fighters and one An-12 among other aircraft, at the Millerovo air base. The aircraft present at this air base are likely being used to support Russian forces in eastern Ukraine. pic.twitter.com/bYaDlU2rqF
— Orion Intel (@Orion__int) May 13, 2022
It's far more likely that the subs will have an accident, and that's the truth.GAC06 said:
Best chance to get those subs is when they're reloading missiles in port at Sevastopol. They need longer range missiles and timely targeting info to do that though
Compared to few months of training a shooter in the army, releasing drones in mass may be a fraction of the cost if a majority aren't rendered inoperable by technology. Imagine taking 150 Uke drones w/ two "grenades" taking on a a Russian brigade. At night. Combined, and i would assume somewhat easier to coordinate, though they would eliminate the brigade, they would likely send it back to the rear with high casualties. This would be based on the higher end hovering drones as well. At 10k a drone, would it be worth $1.5 million to take a brigade out of the fight for 30 days with, guessing, 30-45% casualties be worth it?
The fear the enemy would experience when the hear the swarm....
The fear the enemy would experience when the hear the swarm....
txags92 said:
Just getting some troops across the river isn't worth much. You have to get enough across to spread out and adequately protect the bridgehead so that you can continue to feed troops across and keep them all supplied. If you get a batch of troops across and then let their bridges get destroyed behind them, congrats you have just stranded a bunch of troops with no supplies.
Speaking of Stirling Bridge… that's just what William Wallace did. The Scots were outnumbered 2:1, so they let a quarter of the English army cross the narrow bridge before attacking from high ground. Slaughtered most of the English who made it across; the rest of the English retreated back to Berwick.
Keeping an eye out
paint one blue & gold, update wikipedia, drop one from new cargo drone, after location marked by TB2 or GH, etc.deddog said:It's far more likely that the subs will have an accident, and that's the truth.GAC06 said:
Best chance to get those subs is when they're reloading missiles in port at Sevastopol. They need longer range missiles and timely targeting info to do that though
https://www.kaskus.co.id/show_post/5741dedc642eb6e40d8b4567/4/-
That was so awesome, dude pretty much ran into the dang thing. DRT
deddog said:Is there any video of Su-24s over Ukraine? I don't recall seeing any.Rossticus said:Satellite imagery from yesterday (May 12) shows 16 Su-25 fighters and one An-12 among other aircraft, at the Millerovo air base. The aircraft present at this air base are likely being used to support Russian forces in eastern Ukraine. pic.twitter.com/bYaDlU2rqF
— Orion Intel (@Orion__int) May 13, 2022
Supposedly Ukrainian fencer a few days ago
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