Agree, but the "threat" Putin talked about had nothing to do with military invasion.

It was a threat to his personal rule, not from the outside but from within. The last thing Putin wanted to see was Russia surrounded by democracies providing the Russian people examples of what good governance looks like.

A woman from Mariupol came to Hungary with 4 kids.

Her own.

Her sister’s kid (mother went to find water and disappeared).

Child of her killed neighbors.

She was running for an evacuation bus and saw a kid, sitting on the street next to his dead parents. She took him too.

— Inna Sovsun (@InnaSovsun) March 24, 2022

My God.

CondensedFoggyAggie said:

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A woman from Mariupol came to Hungary with 4 kids.

Her own.

Her sister’s kid (mother went to find water and disappeared).

Child of her killed neighbors.

She was running for an evacuation bus and saw a kid, sitting on the street next to his dead parents. She took him too.

— Inna Sovsun (@InnaSovsun) March 24, 2022

My God.

---

May God Bless her and those kids.

U.S. officials to Reuters said that Russia is running out of precision guided munitions to use in Ukraine.

— Global: MilitaryInfo (@Global_Mil_Info) March 25, 2022

aggie93 said:

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FireAg said:

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This war seems to be shaping up as follows...

The only way for the Russians to turn the tide at this point appears to be a move away from conventional warfare toward a WMD campaign...

But a WMD campaign, at this point, I think would engage the eastern bloc NATO countries to move troops into Ukraine...which then puts other NATO countries on the verge of WWIII as they move to reinforce and protect the borders of eastern bloc NATO countries in the spirit and in honor of Article 5...

The best outcome for the entire world is one that would have saved the world from WWII given a similar predicament...cut the head off of the leadership of the offending force...

The world needs Putin to be dispatched...

---

Perhaps but I don't think so. I think this continues as a long, drawn out fight where Russia eventually wins but at tremendous cost to Russia and with Ukraine basically being destroyed. That's sadly in the best interests of NATO at this point because the real danger is when Russia decides to move to the next step and go after one of the Baltics or Poland that are NATO countries. That's when the nuclear risk really kicks in, Russia would be crushed from a conventional perspective so it's either accept defeat or go nuclear. So as much as it is horrible the best thing for us is for this to stay in Ukraine. Russia is not going to quit, they are fully committed.

As for Putin, certainly taking him out may solve this but it also means Russia goes into chaos. There is no one in Russia who can replace him, Putin has destroyed all his opposition internally and there are just very few people even capable of being in charge of such a complex country there. So you are looking at a possible Civil War or failed state or both. In a country with thousands of nukes and a lot of really bad people. Maybe that turns out ok but that could actually end up even more dangerous.

It's really frightening we don't have any adults in charge of our foreign policy right now.

---

This is why the cheerleading of Ukrainian resistance strikes me as demented. Not because I think Putin a good guy - but because I think him capable of far worse than many "stand with Ukraine"ers.

Its a sacrificial country being tossed into the Russian military wood chipper feet first in an attempt that they'll break the thing for the rest of us. Even if they manage to repel Russia: the best of Ukraine's young men will be dead and their country in ruins.

And the west's strategy? Give em supplies to help prolong this period of destruction.

When i look at this thing I see the gears of war chewing through humanity.

Captain Positivity said:

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Agree, but the "threat" Putin talked about had nothing to do with military invasion.

It was a threat to his personal rule, not from the outside but from within. The last thing Putin wanted to see was Russia surrounded by democracies providing the Russian people examples of what good governance looks like.

---

No, he opposed the expansion of a specifically anti-Russia military alliance to right up against the Russian border.

How would the US react if China undertook to support a revolution in Canada that resulted in the installation of a pro-China government that brought with it Chinese military & weapons systems?

And no, none of that justifies Russia's invasion of Ukraine. But there also isn't any justification for our actions in continually and purposely undertaking actions that we knew would be viewed as (and were frankly designed to be) threatening to Russia. Actions that provided little to no strategic advantage to the US. Our foreign policy vis-a-vis Russia and our insistence on aggressively pursuing a "unipolar" world has been an unmitigated disaster and massively short sighted.

pagerman @ work said:

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aggiehawg said:

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SPF250 said:

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Medinsky's reference of Russia's existence being at risk is troubling. Setting the stage for the "existential threat" predicate for using nukes.

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Russia, or the Soviet Union, has been saying the West is an existential threat since 1917. That is a tenet of Marxism, Leninism, Communism, Maoism, blah, blah, blah.

Workers of the World Unite! Was the slogan for a reason. Capitalism works better for the people living under it than communism does. Unless it is worldwide, it will always fail, eventually.

---

Putin has been saying NATO expansion and the continued marginalization of Russian interests by NATO and particularly the United States represents an existential threat for decades. This is not "the same ol' Russia". This is a very specific concern. Putin has been more than clear. We have just roundly ignored him.

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Okay, Putin is paranoid and dumb. Beyond dumb, deaf and blind because he never thought he had a ghost of a military but he does. The system he imposed, bit him in the butt.

Get Off My Lawn said:

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aggie93 said:

---

FireAg said:

---

This war seems to be shaping up as follows...

The only way for the Russians to turn the tide at this point appears to be a move away from conventional warfare toward a WMD campaign...

But a WMD campaign, at this point, I think would engage the eastern bloc NATO countries to move troops into Ukraine...which then puts other NATO countries on the verge of WWIII as they move to reinforce and protect the borders of eastern bloc NATO countries in the spirit and in honor of Article 5...

The best outcome for the entire world is one that would have saved the world from WWII given a similar predicament...cut the head off of the leadership of the offending force...

The world needs Putin to be dispatched...

---

Perhaps but I don't think so. I think this continues as a long, drawn out fight where Russia eventually wins but at tremendous cost to Russia and with Ukraine basically being destroyed. That's sadly in the best interests of NATO at this point because the real danger is when Russia decides to move to the next step and go after one of the Baltics or Poland that are NATO countries. That's when the nuclear risk really kicks in, Russia would be crushed from a conventional perspective so it's either accept defeat or go nuclear. So as much as it is horrible the best thing for us is for this to stay in Ukraine. Russia is not going to quit, they are fully committed.

As for Putin, certainly taking him out may solve this but it also means Russia goes into chaos. There is no one in Russia who can replace him, Putin has destroyed all his opposition internally and there are just very few people even capable of being in charge of such a complex country there. So you are looking at a possible Civil War or failed state or both. In a country with thousands of nukes and a lot of really bad people. Maybe that turns out ok but that could actually end up even more dangerous.

It's really frightening we don't have any adults in charge of our foreign policy right now.

---

This is why the cheerleading of Ukrainian resistance strikes me as demented. Not because I think Putin a good guy - but because I think him capable of far worse than many "stand with Ukraine"ers.

Its a sacrificial country being tossed into the Russian military wood chipper feet first in an attempt that they'll break the thing for the rest of us. Even if they manage to repel Russia: the best of Ukraine's young men will be dead and their country in ruins.

And the west's strategy? Give em supplies to help prolong this period of destruction.

When i look at this thing I see the gears of war chewing through humanity.

---

Yep. Putin is terrible but there will be no winners in this. Ukraine and it's people will suffer immensely for a long time no matter if they win or lose and sadly once they do recover again they will likely have a new target on their back. Geography has blessed them with valuable farmland and cursed them by putting it in a strategic but very difficult to defend part of the world between multiple powers.

BusterAg said:

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Ok, now balance that with mutually assured destruction in a worldwide nuclear war.

I'm not saying we couldn't have done more, but the end of civilization is something to tread lightly around, especially when dealing with a dying psychopath.

Finally, we certainly suspected Russia was up to something. This madness is close to the extreme end of a whole lot of other likely possibilities.

---

Integrated deterrence is not merely a regimen of sanctions. It is a range of options deployed and they should include economic, political, legal, and military lines of attack against the target.

We relied too much on the weight of sanctions alone and did very little to react in other aspects against Russia until their invasion was well underway.

What we should have been doing had nothing to do with a kinetic escalation against Russia and everything to do with non-kinetic efforts to ramp up both the supply of weapons to Ukraine and the training of their fighters in their best method of employment.

We had an opportunity to engage on that front with a line of allies from non-NATO and NATO sources. Such an effort would have improved the opportunity to actually deter Russian aggression.

The White House calls this effort a successful implementation of the concept of integrated deterrence.

But for deterrence to actually work against an aggressor, it must actually prevent the offending party from engaging in the activity.

We have done this work with Ukraine and other nations before...

https://www.army.mil/article/227818/rapid_trident_19_demonstrates_multinational_proficiency_in_ukraine

It did not lead to MAD then. It would not have led to MAD in the months leading up to the Russian invasion.

⚡️General Staff of Ukraine's Armed Forces: Some Russian units retreat towards Slobozhanksy after losing 50% of personnel.

Russian forces continue to blockade Sumy and Kharkiv but some units have reportedly withdrawn to Russia due to the significant casualties.

— The Kyiv Independent (@KyivIndependent) March 25, 2022

MeatDr said:

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Vladimir Putin and the Kremlin are reportedly sending execution squads after their own army with orders to kill any Russians who try to flee.
There have also been reports of Chechen units being sent in to try and stop Russian desertershttps://t.co/fVMhljnOGA

— Anders Åslund (@anders_aslund) March 24, 2022

---

Shades of 1918.

It didn't end up working then. It will not work now.

A U.S. citizen working as a missionary in southern Ukraine was abducted by Russian troops and has not been heard from in nearly a week, his wife told ⁦⁦@NBCNews⁩.

Dmitry Bodyu, 50, was kidnapped in Melitopol, his wife, Helen, said Thursday in a phone interview. pic.twitter.com/VMwngDzYDX

— Gabe Gutierrez (@gabegutierrez) March 24, 2022

Spaceship's relative? If so it's good that the story is getting out.

https://instagr.am/p/CbdDmwvLJCE

Quote:

---

"I'm new to the front. I've volunteered in Ukraine since day 4 of this war, but this is what I've observed. Ukraine is full, and I mean FULL of lions. This is a whole country of Winston Churchills. Even the women and children.

The soldiers on the front at the start of this all thought they were going to die. As this was building up they told me, 'Yes we knew we were probably going to lose, Russias army is so much bigger.' But they still picked up their weapons and fought anyway…and they're more or less holding. The West thought Kyiv would fall in 3 days. It's been almost a month. It's a whole country of Spartans and it's Thermopylae in reverse now.

The Russian prisoners I've talked to are also surprised. They consider themselves a near peer to the US and they can't quite understand how farmers with tractors and civilians with Molotov cocktails…and the occasional javelin…are stopping them in their tracks.

I've got to hand it to the Russ though. Some of their units are badly depleted and they still keep coming. There's cowards in every army, but there's a lot of brave men on their side. We just have more brave men and women. Haters will say this is propaganda, but they're all at home on the couch. I'm here and I know what I'm seeing."

- "David" Western Volunteer. Invasion of Ukraine. March 22nd, 2022.

---

RebelE Infantry said:

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A U.S. citizen working as a missionary in southern Ukraine was abducted by Russian troops and has not been heard from in nearly a week, his wife told ⁦⁦@NBCNews⁩.

Dmitry Bodyu, 50, was kidnapped in Melitopol, his wife, Helen, said Thursday in a phone interview. pic.twitter.com/VMwngDzYDX

— Gabe Gutierrez (@gabegutierrez) March 24, 2022

Spaceship's relative? If so it's good that the story is getting out.

---

Yes, that's him. I'm apprehensive about the story getting out because I don't want him to become some sort of example for Russia. But hopefully the light being shined on a kidnapped US citizen will help expedite his return. Its been a week now and the longer it goes on, the more concerned I get.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/ukranian-american-missionary-allegedly-kidnapped-russian-forces-rcna21415?fbclid=IwAR0meslc20_Aeg57KVTxqoZKAE2kLjW_jfyVJxkOrHwksrSlINLbMsfC9kU

wtmartinaggie said:

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Honest question... is a Russian collapse really in our best interest? I think one of their reps said it best that if we decapitate Russia and cause it to collapse we will have 5-6 nuclear nation states to deal with. Could end up backfiring. It also would very much open the door for China to move on resource rich and sparsley populated areas of eastern siberia. Could be bad for the long-game...

---

I prefer nuke capable countries that don't invade neighboring sovereign nations.

That type of behavior is no longer tolerable.

CNN: Ukraine tells the U.S. it needs 500 Javelins and 500 Stingers per day.

A recent request provided to U.S. lawmakers points to a growing need for American-made Stinger anti-aircraft missiles and Javelin anti-tank missiles as the Russian invasion continues on multiple fronts.

— The Kyiv Independent (@KyivIndependent) March 25, 2022

Get Off My Lawn said:

---

aggie93 said:

---

FireAg said:

---

This war seems to be shaping up as follows...

The only way for the Russians to turn the tide at this point appears to be a move away from conventional warfare toward a WMD campaign...

But a WMD campaign, at this point, I think would engage the eastern bloc NATO countries to move troops into Ukraine...which then puts other NATO countries on the verge of WWIII as they move to reinforce and protect the borders of eastern bloc NATO countries in the spirit and in honor of Article 5...

The best outcome for the entire world is one that would have saved the world from WWII given a similar predicament...cut the head off of the leadership of the offending force...

The world needs Putin to be dispatched...

---

Perhaps but I don't think so. I think this continues as a long, drawn out fight where Russia eventually wins but at tremendous cost to Russia and with Ukraine basically being destroyed. That's sadly in the best interests of NATO at this point because the real danger is when Russia decides to move to the next step and go after one of the Baltics or Poland that are NATO countries. That's when the nuclear risk really kicks in, Russia would be crushed from a conventional perspective so it's either accept defeat or go nuclear. So as much as it is horrible the best thing for us is for this to stay in Ukraine. Russia is not going to quit, they are fully committed.

As for Putin, certainly taking him out may solve this but it also means Russia goes into chaos. There is no one in Russia who can replace him, Putin has destroyed all his opposition internally and there are just very few people even capable of being in charge of such a complex country there. So you are looking at a possible Civil War or failed state or both. In a country with thousands of nukes and a lot of really bad people. Maybe that turns out ok but that could actually end up even more dangerous.

It's really frightening we don't have any adults in charge of our foreign policy right now.

---

This is why the cheerleading of Ukrainian resistance strikes me as demented. Not because I think Putin a good guy - but because I think him capable of far worse than many "stand with Ukraine"ers.

Its a sacrificial country being tossed into the Russian military wood chipper feet first in an attempt that they'll break the thing for the rest of us. Even if they manage to repel Russia: the best of Ukraine's young men will be dead and their country in ruins.

And the west's strategy? Give em supplies to help prolong this period of destruction.

When i look at this thing I see the gears of war chewing through humanity.

---

High tech weapons with unwilling soldiers don't fire very well.

Ukraine has shown nothing but the will to fight.

I kind of get that without our support, this would likely be over. But, Ukes would rather die fighting than starve to death like their grandparents generation.

Putin has exposed his military‘s weaknesses and that they can no longer “pose a long-term systemic challenge to the United States” in the eyes of the Pentagon. https://t.co/Fd3tEajBfP

— Alex Plitsas 🇺🇸 (@alexplitsas) March 25, 2022

PJYoung said:

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Putin has exposed his military‘s weaknesses and that they can no longer “pose a long-term systemic challenge to the United States” in the eyes of the Pentagon. https://t.co/Fd3tEajBfP

— Alex Plitsas 🇺🇸 (@alexplitsas) March 25, 2022

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This is foolish. Nukes still exist.

A lot of people forget how surprised everyone was, including Zelensky, that Russia actually invaded until it was on the eve of it happening.

We have been providing training for months, all be it to a lesser degree than we should have, because no one thought Putin was this crazy.

In retrospect, a huge failure in intelligence, I think, more so than unwillingness to get involved.

Like it or not, the impact of the entire first world IS having a dramatic impact on Russia, and will not be soon forgotten.

The US SHOULD NOT have been spending a ton of money preparing for a military action that might happen in Ukraine. We are not the world's police force. That said, now that the war has started, sending aid is the right thing to do.

PJYoung said:

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Putin has exposed his military‘s weaknesses and that they can no longer “pose a long-term systemic challenge to the United States” in the eyes of the Pentagon. https://t.co/Fd3tEajBfP

— Alex Plitsas 🇺🇸 (@alexplitsas) March 25, 2022

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Arg. Why even voice this.

The Ukrainian Army Has More Tanks Now Than When The War Began—Because It Keeps Capturing Them From Russia https://t.co/zt4DuK0QGp

— Michael Weiss 🌻🇺🇸🇮🇪 (@michaeldweiss) March 25, 2022

Russia has exposed that their convential army is no threat to NATO without the USA besides our weaponry, there is no need for our boots to be on the ground besides training.

Now nuclear response and deterence is another matter all together