***Russian - Ukraine War Tactical and Strategic Updates*** [Warning on OP]

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Rossticus
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JFABNRGR
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BoDog said:

GAC06 said:

BoDog said:

Ok, another dumb question.... Is it a forgone conclusion that Russian nukes can reach our shores without being intercepted? I realize if they do indeed have these supersonic missiles then forget it, we are toast but I am talking about conventional intercontinental nukes...


We cannot intercept their ICBM's
Well there goes my goodnight sleep tonight.
But supposedly they can around Moscow. My father griped about this my entire 52 year life and likely before.

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/moscow-russia-safest-city-world-nuclear-war-138682

Mule
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Rossticus said:

Article from US Naval Institute on Putin's escalation doctrine.



https://www.usni.org/magazines/proceedings/2017/february/escalate-de-escalate
Post of the day...thank you.

Throughout the nuclear age mutual mass destruction was well understood and respected by both sides. Escalate to de-escalate is magical insular thinking. The equation of our fears no longer zeros out.. They believe their own lies. They are no longer participating in Reality- see Item #1: the miscalculation that is Ukraine.

When dealing with a wounded animal, it is always wise to ignore the stories attached to one's thoughts about what it "might do," and give it space. Chances are that it will die from its own self inflicted wounds.
Texas Aggies
mickeyrig06sq3
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lb3 said:

Ag In Ok said:

Rossticus said:




I don't agree based on current events. If it were that close, there wouldn't be a loss of isium (sp) and Russian breakthroughs along the Donetsk front.
A lot of news has broken since your comment, but you don't have to win every battle to win the war. If Russia is going to run out of fuel, ammo, food, or soldiers soon, things could see a decisive turn soon.
Plus, you can't look at it in a vacuum. Enough has happened that even if Kyiv falls tomorrow, and Zelensky is executed on some trumped-up charge, the people won't stop. It'll transition from a defense force to an insurgency. The West won't stop their sanctions, and will continue to funnel intelligence and arms, one way or another. All the while, Russia continues to rot from the inside. You don't have to beat them; you just have to outlast them.
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JFABNRGR said:

BoDog said:

GAC06 said:

BoDog said:

Ok, another dumb question.... Is it a forgone conclusion that Russian nukes can reach our shores without being intercepted? I realize if they do indeed have these supersonic missiles then forget it, we are toast but I am talking about conventional intercontinental nukes...


We cannot intercept their ICBM's
Well there goes my goodnight sleep tonight.
But supposedly they can around Moscow. My father griped about this my entire 52 year life and likely before.

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/moscow-russia-safest-city-world-nuclear-war-138682


It'll stop the first few, but more than likely it'll be the equivalent of Lucy at the candy factory.
TriAg2010
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Yeah, I have no doubt we have put considerable thought into overwhelming or thwarting Russia's ABM system around Moscow. Among other options, Moscow is well within range of cruise missiles which are very tough to intercept.
Mule
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https://www.icanw.org/new_study_on_us_russia_nuclear_war



Texas Aggies
Waffledynamics
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GAC06 said:

BoDog said:

Ok, another dumb question.... Is it a forgone conclusion that Russian nukes can reach our shores without being intercepted? I realize if they do indeed have these supersonic missiles then forget it, we are toast but I am talking about conventional intercontinental nukes...


We cannot intercept their ICBM's
Why not?
mickeyrig06sq3
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Waffledynamics said:

GAC06 said:

BoDog said:

Ok, another dumb question.... Is it a forgone conclusion that Russian nukes can reach our shores without being intercepted? I realize if they do indeed have these supersonic missiles then forget it, we are toast but I am talking about conventional intercontinental nukes...


We cannot intercept their ICBM's
Why not?
Anti-missile shields are designed to prevent rogue strikes from places like Iran or North Korea if they ever had that capability. A full MAD release isn't able to be stopped.
TAMUallen
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mickeyrig06sq3 said:

Waffledynamics said:

GAC06 said:

BoDog said:

Ok, another dumb question.... Is it a forgone conclusion that Russian nukes can reach our shores without being intercepted? I realize if they do indeed have these supersonic missiles then forget it, we are toast but I am talking about conventional intercontinental nukes...


We cannot intercept their ICBM's
Why not?
Anti-missile shields are designed to prevent rogue strikes from places like Iran or North Korea if they ever had that capability. A full MAD release isn't able to be stopped.


That's assuming you know how many were launched and what our defense truly is...

Anyway, take this to another thread. I don't wanna catch a ban
VaultingChemist
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Our European troops are being told to keep silent. Seems like a good idea.
JB!98
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mickeyrig06sq3 said:

Waffledynamics said:

GAC06 said:

BoDog said:

Ok, another dumb question.... Is it a forgone conclusion that Russian nukes can reach our shores without being intercepted? I realize if they do indeed have these supersonic missiles then forget it, we are toast but I am talking about conventional intercontinental nukes...


We cannot intercept their ICBM's
Why not?
Anti-missile shields are designed to prevent rogue strikes from places like Iran or North Korea if they ever had that capability. A full MAD release isn't able to be stopped.
Our best bet would be to pop their ballistic missile subs at the get go and then see what the SM-3's can do for the ICBM's. We would get creamed, but I think that would be the best we could do.

Ivan still has to send some of his payload at Europe.

Hopefully somebody takes Putin out before we get there because it is a no win situation.
Today, unfortunately, many Americans have good reason to fear that they will be victimized if they are unable to protect themselves. And today, no less than in 1791, the Second Amendment guarantees their right to do so. - Justice Samuel Alito 2022
mickeyrig06sq3
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mickeyrig06sq3 said:

Waffledynamics said:

GAC06 said:

BoDog said:

Ok, another dumb question.... Is it a forgone conclusion that Russian nukes can reach our shores without being intercepted? I realize if they do indeed have these supersonic missiles then forget it, we are toast but I am talking about conventional intercontinental nukes...


We cannot intercept their ICBM's
Why not?
Anti-missile shields are designed to prevent rogue strikes from places like Iran or North Korea if they ever had that capability. A full MAD release isn't able to be stopped.
It's a little dated, but here's a good video to give some insight:

If it's a domestic based shield, you're not targeting a giant ICBM. You're trying to nail a tiny re-entry vehicle traveling a few thousand miles an hour.
mickeyrig06sq3
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JB!98 said:

mickeyrig06sq3 said:

Waffledynamics said:

GAC06 said:

BoDog said:

Ok, another dumb question.... Is it a forgone conclusion that Russian nukes can reach our shores without being intercepted? I realize if they do indeed have these supersonic missiles then forget it, we are toast but I am talking about conventional intercontinental nukes...


We cannot intercept their ICBM's
Why not?
Anti-missile shields are designed to prevent rogue strikes from places like Iran or North Korea if they ever had that capability. A full MAD release isn't able to be stopped.
Our best bet would be to pop their ballistic missile subs at the get go and then see what the SM-3's can do for the ICBM's. We would get creamed, but I think that would be the best we could do.

Ivan still has to send some of his payload at Europe.
Yeah, but they've got some to spare. If the time ever comes, it'll be the Oprah delivery system. "You get a nuke, and you get a nuke...Everybody gets a nuke!"
TheEternalPessimist
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mickeyrig06sq3 said:

mickeyrig06sq3 said:

Waffledynamics said:

GAC06 said:

BoDog said:

Ok, another dumb question.... Is it a forgone conclusion that Russian nukes can reach our shores without being intercepted? I realize if they do indeed have these supersonic missiles then forget it, we are toast but I am talking about conventional intercontinental nukes...


We cannot intercept their ICBM's
Why not?
Anti-missile shields are designed to prevent rogue strikes from places like Iran or North Korea if they ever had that capability. A full MAD release isn't able to be stopped.
It's a little dated, but here's a good video to give some insight:

If it's a domestic based shield, you're not targeting a giant ICBM. You're trying to nail a tiny re-entry vehicle traveling a few thousand miles an hour.
So many dummy warheads would overwhelm any known anti-missile defense systems we have.

Key word is --- 'known'.
Mule
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However, he added: "If the only other scenario for Putin is losing power, freedom and possibly his life he will absolutely, with no hesitation use nuclear weapons on Ukraine."

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1582397/vladmir-putin-nuclear-weapons-russia-ukraine-world-war-three?amp_js_v=0.1&usqp=mq331AQKKAFQArABIIACAw%3D%3D

Texas Aggies
Eliminatus
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Please take the nuke discussion to the other thread. That hypothetical really has no bearing in this thread.
mickeyrig06sq3
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TheEternalPessimist said:

mickeyrig06sq3 said:

mickeyrig06sq3 said:

Waffledynamics said:

GAC06 said:

BoDog said:

Ok, another dumb question.... Is it a forgone conclusion that Russian nukes can reach our shores without being intercepted? I realize if they do indeed have these supersonic missiles then forget it, we are toast but I am talking about conventional intercontinental nukes...


We cannot intercept their ICBM's
Why not?
Anti-missile shields are designed to prevent rogue strikes from places like Iran or North Korea if they ever had that capability. A full MAD release isn't able to be stopped.
It's a little dated, but here's a good video to give some insight:

If it's a domestic based shield, you're not targeting a giant ICBM. You're trying to nail a tiny re-entry vehicle traveling a few thousand miles an hour.
So many dummy warheads would overwhelm any known anti-missile defense systems we have.

Key word is --- 'known'.
I'm sure we've probably got some fun stuff out there, but between spies, satellites, and sheer logistics, I don't see us having a good enough shield where I'd be willing to gamble and find out. If I'm wrong, I'll eat crow; it'll be a tasty crow and I'd savor every bite.
Eliminatus
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VaultingChemist said:



Our European troops are being told to keep silent. Seems like a good idea.


American military has not always been the brightest at social media postings. In this case in a very volatile situation, I have zero problem clamping down on it hard. There is nothing that some Joe in Poland can post that is going to help the situation and every chance of it hurting it.

Good move IMO. We all here see the information war being fought in real time in front of our very eyes.
EKUAg
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PJYoung
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Eliminatus
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JFABNRGR said:

Is the explosive large enough to damage the structure permanently or just enough to damage targeting mechanisms, wheels, ancillary type items?

Obviously, the crew if present isn't going to be very productive and ideally any munitions get cooked off will likely cause way more damage.


Looked it up when I first heard about them and the larger one is absolutely packing an anti armor warhead. So huge explosion not needed, just penetration power. The smaller one I saw billed as an anti personnel model, akin to a 40mm grenade by with a more directed blast like a shotgun.

No hard details on either warhead I could find.

Fun fact, the Switchblade has already been used in combat in Afghanistan back in 2012 and onward. Even some use against ISIS afterwards. No details on effectiveness aside from "urgent requests for more of them". Had no idea they have been operational that long.

Interesting stuff.
GAC06
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Eliminatus said:

VaultingChemist said:



Our European troops are being told to keep silent. Seems like a good idea.


American military has not always been the brightest at social media postings. In this case in a very volatile situation, I have zero problem clamping down on it hard. There is nothing that some Joe in Poland can post that is going to help the situation and every chance of it hurting it.

Good move IMO. We all here see the information war being fought in real time in front of our very eyes.


If **** gets real we need to take everyone's phone.
GarryowenAg
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mickeyrig06sq3
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GarryowenAg said:


I like the guy, and he's doing a great job. It does worry me how much he is essentially getting deified in the news and social media. Maybe I read Left Behind too many times, but it's something that always bothers me when it happens with world leaders. It's not the one the world hates that you have to be wary of, it's the one the world loves. Putin still sucks and deserves to have a Hitler funeral. Burned and buried in an unmarked grave.
JB!98
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I have been trying to put this in perspective for myself and inform my son and wife about this conflict and how the Ukes are still in this fight. The conservative estimates show that the Russians have lost around 10-12% of our total KIA in Vietnam. They have also suffered around 15% of our total WIA in Vietnam. They have lost about 10% of their tanks vs the total of M4 Sherman tanks that we lost in all of WWII. They have accomplished this in the span of 3 weeks.
Today, unfortunately, many Americans have good reason to fear that they will be victimized if they are unable to protect themselves. And today, no less than in 1791, the Second Amendment guarantees their right to do so. - Justice Samuel Alito 2022
GarryowenAg
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Waffledynamics
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mickeyrig06sq3 said:

GarryowenAg said:


I like the guy, and he's doing a great job. It does worry me how much he is essentially getting deified in the news and social media. Maybe I read Left Behind too many times, but it's something that always bothers me when it happens with world leaders. It's not the one the world hates that you have to be wary of, it's the one the world loves. Putin still sucks and deserves to have a Hitler funeral. Burned and buried in an unmarked grave.
Agreed. He is getting rightful credit for what he is doing, but it needs to be sobered up. The real work is being done by the brave men and women of Ukraine who are risking life and limb to save their country.
ATX_AG_08
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Guy hasn't even made it through war yet. I think that talk is a little premature. And my thoughts are quite opposite. I would imagine if he does make it through this it's going to be an extremely humbling experience. I would also imagine at that point he fully understands he represents all of Ukraine and wouldn't want to let them down.
Rossticus
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Waffledynamics
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Rossticus said:


Surely they must be aware of how futile and pointless this vote is, and how dangerous it would be if they got their way.

Right?
Rossticus
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