Ukraine meeting with Russia again. I doubt the Russian delegation has any authority beyond repeating Putin's demands. TALKS
***Russian - Ukraine War Tactical and Strategic Updates*** [Warning on OP]
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Last: 10 hrs ago by EastSideAg2002
Sorry if already discussed: I wonder if the Ukrainian military has found the primary fuel supply depot and/or the refinery supplying the fuel for Russia's equipment? It would be worth it at this point to either take out that refinery or to blow the rail bridges feeding the depot. A couple of days with limited fuel availability could also slow things down. I know that the fuel is probably coming from multiple sources, but if the Uke's can interrupt that supply on some level, it could temporarily shift things to Ukraine's favor....to hell with what Russia thinks about Ukraine attacking them on their own soil.
On another note, does the Turkish ban of military/Russian navy passing through their strait also apply to cargo ships supplying the Russians in the southern front?
On another note, does the Turkish ban of military/Russian navy passing through their strait also apply to cargo ships supplying the Russians in the southern front?
https://www.nytimes.com/live/2022/03/03/world/russia-ukraine
Quote:
. . .
After capturing the strategic city of Kherson, Russian forces pushed west on Thursday, moving along the southern Black Sea coast in the direction of Odessa. They continued to lay siege to the critical port city of Mariupol in Ukraine's east, though there was no indication that they had captured it.
After eight days of war, Russian troops deployed in Ukraine's southern theater finally appeared to be building some momentum. But their progress has been far slower than military analysts would have expected given their massive advantages over the Ukrainian military.
For eight years, President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia has been building what amounts to a massive military staging area in the Crimean Peninsula, which he annexed in 2014,. Forces stationed there should have been well equipped to charge out of their bases and seize swaths of southern Ukrainian territory the moment the order was given to invade. Russia's near naval monopoly in the Black Sea and the Sea of Azov should have provided additional fire power to assist ground troops.
Instead, their advancement has been sluggish, beset by logistical issues and a seeming inability of commanders to coordinate disparate military forces, which if combined effectively should have easily overwhelmed Ukraine's defenses.
"I thought along the Black Sea coast was where they would have their best success immediately because of the huge advantage of having this bridgehead in Crimea," said Lt. Gen. Ben Hodges, the former commander of the U.S. Army in Europe.
Mariupol continued to hold out on Thursday despite a massive Russian bombardment that had cut power, water and heat to the city. But the mayor, Vadym Boichenko, painted a grim picture of the Russian siege.
. . .
Despite the pounding Russian artillery strikes in Kyiv, the capital, and Kharkiv, Ukraine's second largest city, there has been very little advancement in recent days among troops stationed in the country's north.
In the south, the campaign to seize the southern coastline was given a boost this week with the capture of Kherson, a city of 300,000 people that is an important ship building center. From there, Russian troops have been on the move in the direction of Mykolaiv, another important port city on the Black Sea.
On Thursday, Mykolaiv's mayor, Oleksandr Senkevych, said roughly 800 Russian vehicles, including a column of grad rocket launchers, was headed toward the city, which has one of Ukraine's three largest ports, from north, east and south. As of Thursday morning, there had been no shelling inside the city.
But Ukrainian forces on the city perimeter have been fired on by long-range rockets, forcing them to move positions constantly, Mr. Senkevych said.
. . .
But charging further down the line could put Russian forces in danger of stretching themselves too thinly, said Michael Kofman, the director of Russia studies at CNA, a research institute based in Arlington, Va. Already, the forces in Ukraine's south and elsewhere appear in some instances to have outpaced logistical units, forcing them to stop and wait for fuel and other supplies.
. . .
Russia and Ukraine agreed on a number of humanitarian issues, including the possibility of a temporary cease-fire to organize humanitarian corridors for the evacuation of civilians
— Russians With Attitude (@RWApodcast) March 3, 2022
Also being reported in other outlets. Unclear about the ceasefire but all confirm establishing humanitarian corridors
jabberwalkie09 said:
I assume you're referring to the air assets. There's legitimate logistical and tactical problems with that. Flying out of a Polish air base full stocked and ready to rock would be problematic for all of NATO. I'm not sure how much radar coverage the Russians truly have, but I'd bet some money on there being Russian assets watching every single plane taking off from a NATO base in Eastern Europe right now and that would get reported.
As to other systems and equipment, despite some logistical hurdles getting AA systems in especially if they're of Soviet design or man portable systems is easier than handing out equipment. There's going to be some learning curves with western equipment. Time isn't necessarily on their side and equipping what we can with little to no training needed is really the best bad option we have right now.
There's basically three wars being waged right now: bullets/kinetic, economic through sanctions, and propaganda via social and traditional media.
Mostly referring to APCs, other armor, self propelled artillery, rocket based artillery, anti-ship, etc. Stuff that the Ukes know, that could be rolled across into the border areas while they remain relatively secure and uncontested, that would increase the viability of their ground forces for a protracted period of resistance.
Of course that would require NATO assets to be stationed in any contributing country in order to temporarily fill the gap but I think the benefit far outweighs the risk and could allow Uke forces to exert enough additional pressure on the Russians to preclude their planned assault on Moldova, soften their existing lines near captured cities, etc.
Most of that stuff would be intra Black Sea so no need to pass.Burrus86 said:
Sorry if already discussed: I wonder if the Ukrainian military has found the primary fuel supply depot and/or the refinery supplying the fuel for Russia's equipment? It would be worth it at this point to either take out that refinery or to blow the rail bridges feeding the depot. A couple of days with limited fuel availability could also slow things down. I know that the fuel is probably coming from multiple sources, but if the Uke's can interrupt that supply on some level, it could temporarily shift things to Ukraine's favor....to hell with what Russia thinks about Ukraine attacking them on their own soil.
On another note, does the Turkish ban of military/Russian navy passing through their strait also apply to cargo ships supplying the Russians in the southern front?
Afaik, Turkey clarified their position as they won't be letting additional Russian warships into the Black Sea but they will not stop a ship from transiting to its home port. I also don't think the Russians need to ship stuff by boat to the region. I believe they can ship by rail to the region and disburse from there. Crimea specifically has a rail to it that Russia built.Burrus86 said:
Sorry if already discussed: I wonder if the Ukrainian military has found the primary fuel supply depot and/or the refinery supplying the fuel for Russia's equipment? It would be worth it at this point to either take out that refinery or to blow the rail bridges feeding the depot. A couple of days with limited fuel availability could also slow things down. I know that the fuel is probably coming from multiple sources, but if the Uke's can interrupt that supply on some level, it could temporarily shift things to Ukraine's favor....to hell with what Russia thinks about Ukraine attacking them on their own soil.
On another note, does the Turkish ban of military/Russian navy passing through their strait also apply to cargo ships supplying the Russians in the southern front?
On the fuel note, I don't know where they refine their fuel but I believe that the Ukrainians ability to launch such an attack would be limited. They've only hit military targets very near their region iirc.
RebelE Infantry said:Russia and Ukraine agreed on a number of humanitarian issues, including the possibility of a temporary cease-fire to organize humanitarian corridors for the evacuation of civilians
— Russians With Attitude (@RWApodcast) March 3, 2022
Also being reported in other outlets. Unclear about the ceasefire but all confirm establishing humanitarian corridors
Ceasefire would be disastrous for the Russians. More time for help and supplies to arrive and reinforce Ukraine.
and Russia is only winning 1 of them. But sadly it's the one that directly results in deathjabberwalkie09 said:
There's basically three wars being waged right now: bullets/kinetic, economic through sanctions, and propaganda via social and traditional media.
TRM said:
What do you all think? For construction or for targetting?More "diplomatic casualties" to come? Markers like these found on more than one diplomatic mission's building in Kyiv. pic.twitter.com/Axcqgr6ZX5
— Matti Maasikas (@MattiMaasikas) March 3, 2022
Seems too perfect with the site there in the middle. It look like something someone would put to make an issue, rather than reveal one.
gosh, just the difference in attire in this single picture tells a large portion of the story. This could definitely be intentional propaganda, but looking at this picture of the delegates i would guess that one side of that table had to put down some weapons to come to this meeting.74OA said:
Ukraine meeting with Russia again. I doubt the Russian delegation has any authority beyond repeating Putin's demands. TALKS
mwp02ag said:
Look at the both the tire that appears to be used as a footing for the stabilization jack there and the tire still on the wheel.
They don't look like they've been off road at all. Zero mud on the tires. Not saying that guy doesn't know what he's talking about but I don't understand how you bog a wheel bad enough to break the bead and not have some mud some where.
Those tires are dead ringers for the tires he calls out. I think the point of both of those posts is that they're using cheap tires and not trading card of them. The result is that they can't go off road and they're ****ing up tires left and right.
Rossticus said:jabberwalkie09 said:
I assume you're referring to the air assets. There's legitimate logistical and tactical problems with that. Flying out of a Polish air base full stocked and ready to rock would be problematic for all of NATO. I'm not sure how much radar coverage the Russians truly have, but I'd bet some money on there being Russian assets watching every single plane taking off from a NATO base in Eastern Europe right now and that would get reported.
As to other systems and equipment, despite some logistical hurdles getting AA systems in especially if they're of Soviet design or man portable systems is easier than handing out equipment. There's going to be some learning curves with western equipment. Time isn't necessarily on their side and equipping what we can with little to no training needed is really the best bad option we have right now.
There's basically three wars being waged right now: bullets/kinetic, economic through sanctions, and propaganda via social and traditional media.
Mostly referring to APCs, other armor, self propelled artillery, rocket based artillery, anti-ship, etc. Stuff that the Ukes know, that could be rolled across into the border areas while they remain relatively secure and uncontested, that would increase the viability of their ground forces for a protracted period of resistance.
Of course that would require NATO assets to be stationed in any contributing country in order to temporarily fill the gap but I think the benefit far outweighs the risk and could allow Uke forces to exert enough additional pressure on the Russians to preclude their planned assault on Moldova, soften their existing lines near captured cities, etc.
It's not just NATO assets that would need to be reallocated. Without looking at the available leftover Soviet assets that neighboring countries have, I'd guess that the cost of replacing this equipment and when they would be delivered would be a real concern for those countries. That's also assuming that this equipment is in a status that actually is operable and combat ready/deployable.
TAMUallen said:RebelE Infantry said:Russia and Ukraine agreed on a number of humanitarian issues, including the possibility of a temporary cease-fire to organize humanitarian corridors for the evacuation of civilians
— Russians With Attitude (@RWApodcast) March 3, 2022
Also being reported in other outlets. Unclear about the ceasefire but all confirm establishing humanitarian corridors
Ceasefire would be disastrous for the Russians. More time for help and supplies to arrive and reinforce Ukraine.
Perhaps. But also would allow time for Russia to try and sort out their apparent logistics problem unmolested. So in the end it's probably a wash.
Or a trap.Quote:
Perhaps. But also would allow time for Russia to try and sort out their apparent logistics problem unmolested. So in the end it's probably a wash.
Ceasefire allows Russia to catch up and resupply. They've been known to not exactly follow ceasefires in the past.
They'll wait until they are ready, claim provocation, and start fighting again.
They'll wait until they are ready, claim provocation, and start fighting again.
In what way?
Also remember Russia is blaming Ukraine for the attacks on civilians. Any Russian strike on Ukraine during a ceasefire will come with a meme of Putin with his hands up saying "wasn't me!"
W said:and Russia is only winning 1 of them. But sadly it's the one that directly results in deathjabberwalkie09 said:
There's basically three wars being waged right now: bullets/kinetic, economic through sanctions, and propaganda via social and traditional media.
Yet an economic depression can have equally as drastic consequences.
Wouldn't satellites be able to confirm this if indeed the Russian military kills its own people?45-70Ag said:Worrying reports: Russians might have pointed multiple rocket-launching systems in the Russian border village of Popovka towards their own territory. Knowing the barbaric nature of Russian actions we fear a false flag operation might be prepared in order to accuse Ukraine.
— Dmytro Kuleba (@DmytroKuleba) March 3, 2022
you cant fix (sort out) stupidRebelE Infantry said:TAMUallen said:RebelE Infantry said:Russia and Ukraine agreed on a number of humanitarian issues, including the possibility of a temporary cease-fire to organize humanitarian corridors for the evacuation of civilians
— Russians With Attitude (@RWApodcast) March 3, 2022
Also being reported in other outlets. Unclear about the ceasefire but all confirm establishing humanitarian corridors
Ceasefire would be disastrous for the Russians. More time for help and supplies to arrive and reinforce Ukraine.
Perhaps. But also would allow time for Russia to try and sort out their apparent logistics problem unmolested. So in the end it's probably a wash.
No ceasefire; just humanitarian corridors for civilians and supplies appears to be the agreementCaptain Positivity said:
Ceasefire allows Russia to catch up and resupply. They've been known to not exactly follow ceasefires in the past.
They'll wait until they are ready, claim provocation, and start fighting again.
Russia has a nasty history of massacres.RebelE Infantry said:
In what way?
Can we all agree on one thing? That this is the weirdest war ever fought?
jabberwalkie09 said:Rossticus said:jabberwalkie09 said:
I assume you're referring to the air assets. There's legitimate logistical and tactical problems with that. Flying out of a Polish air base full stocked and ready to rock would be problematic for all of NATO. I'm not sure how much radar coverage the Russians truly have, but I'd bet some money on there being Russian assets watching every single plane taking off from a NATO base in Eastern Europe right now and that would get reported.
As to other systems and equipment, despite some logistical hurdles getting AA systems in especially if they're of Soviet design or man portable systems is easier than handing out equipment. There's going to be some learning curves with western equipment. Time isn't necessarily on their side and equipping what we can with little to no training needed is really the best bad option we have right now.
There's basically three wars being waged right now: bullets/kinetic, economic through sanctions, and propaganda via social and traditional media.
Mostly referring to APCs, other armor, self propelled artillery, rocket based artillery, anti-ship, etc. Stuff that the Ukes know, that could be rolled across into the border areas while they remain relatively secure and uncontested, that would increase the viability of their ground forces for a protracted period of resistance.
Of course that would require NATO assets to be stationed in any contributing country in order to temporarily fill the gap but I think the benefit far outweighs the risk and could allow Uke forces to exert enough additional pressure on the Russians to preclude their planned assault on Moldova, soften their existing lines near captured cities, etc.
It's not just NATO assets that would need to be reallocated. Without looking at the available leftover Soviet assets that neighboring countries have, I'd guess that the cost of replacing this equipment and when they would be delivered would be a real concern for those countries. That's also assuming that this equipment is in a status that actually is operable and combat ready/deployable.
Which is, again, why NATO should have been actively preparing instead of sitting on its ass and assuming Putin was going to negotiate and play nice. Nothin about Putin's prior excursions indicated that he wasn't willing, and he'd been conditioned to believe he'd be allowed to get away with it. Insanely naive and complacent on NATOs part not to prepare and do more to present a posture of active deterrence.
Supposedly the first image of Ukrainian Navy flagship Hetman Sahaidachny (U130) scuttled in Nikolaev.@RALee85 @CovertShores @OSINTEng pic.twitter.com/R3ECQsqA10
— Granger (@GrangerE04117) March 3, 2022
https://www.nytimes.com/live/2022/03/03/world/russia-ukraine
A satellite image released by Maxar Technologies on Monday showing a military convoy along a highway near Ivankiv in northern Ukraine.Credit...Maxar Technologies, via Associated Press
Maxar Technologies has been releasing great satellite images of Russian troop deployments.
Quote:
. . .
Russia and Ukraine concluded the second of round of talks in Belarus, achieving little progress, but agreeing to deliver food and medicine to the areas of intense fighting and to establish "humanitarian corridors" to allow civilians to leave them. "Unfortunately, the results Ukraine needs are not yet achieved," said one of the Ukrainian representatives, Mikhailo Podolyak.
. . .
Quote:
. . .
Russian operations in northern Ukraine appeared to be stalled for a third day as the Kremlin sent more troops into the country, a senior defense official said Thursday morning, adding that Ukrainian forces may be attacking a convoy of Russian forces attempting to take the major northern cities of Kyiv, Chernihiv and Kharkiv.
The official, who was not authorized to speak publicly, provided an update to reporters at the Pentagon of what the Defense Department has observed of Russian operations. The official said that Russia has now committed 90 percent of its more than 150,000-soldier invasion force inside Ukraine. On Wednesday morning, a senior defense official had placed that figure at 82 percent.
. . .
The Pentagon has not seen any significant amount of Russian forces moving toward the city of Odessa, an important port on the Black Sea, the official added. The airspace over Ukraine remains contested with Ukrainian warplanes and air defense weapons still intact and the Pentagon has observed more than 480 launches of Russian missiles of various types against targets in Ukraine.
Defense officials said that more than 230 of those missiles have been fired from mobile launchers inside Ukraine, with approximately 160 from inside Russia, 70 fired from inside Belarus and 10 launched from Russian warships in the Black Sea. The United States continues to provide anti-tank and air-defense weapons to Ukraine, the official said, declining to answer questions about the quantity and type of each.
. . .
A satellite image released by Maxar Technologies on Monday showing a military convoy along a highway near Ivankiv in northern Ukraine.Credit...Maxar Technologies, via Associated Press
Maxar Technologies has been releasing great satellite images of Russian troop deployments.
Jay Reimenschneider said:
Can we all agree on one thing? That this is the weirdest war ever fought?
I think the war of the Falkland Islands takes that award.
People within the Country as also claiming that the Government is preparing to Call Up all Men under the Age of 50 to Mandatory Military Service, Foreign Nationals and Russian Civilians are reportedly fleeing toward the European Border to the West in Mass amiss these rumors.
— OSINTdefender (@sentdefender) March 3, 2022
2wealfth Man said:No ceasefire; just humanitarian corridors for civilians and supplies appears to be the agreementCaptain Positivity said:
Ceasefire allows Russia to catch up and resupply. They've been known to not exactly follow ceasefires in the past.
They'll wait until they are ready, claim provocation, and start fighting again.
Calling it. Russia steals supplies and redistributes to their troops instead. Uses as default supply line supplementation.
Also a good chance that Russia targets a humanitarian evac corridor and blames it in Ukrainian military.
Wow, 4 Russian 2K22 Tunguska Air Defense Systems being destroyed by Ukrainian Forces, that is going to extremely limit Russian Air Control in this area, I don’t understand how a Whole Air Defense Battery could be captured like this? https://t.co/l01T1wIxC2
— OSINTdefender (@sentdefender) March 3, 2022
Jay Reimenschneider said:
Can we all agree on one thing? That this is the weirdest war ever fought?
I don't think it's weird at all, although it does seem to be kind of a "throwback." I think it's just the first war that we've followed on an hourly basis and weird crap happens.
I'm sure if you followed and of the previous wars in the same manner there would be all kinds of goofy stuff.
Jay Reimenschneider said:
Can we all agree on one thing? That this is the weirdest war ever fought?
Not really, we in the west are just spoiled by our ability to fight, and more importantly, maintain that fight.
This largely boils down to a country getting exposed on several levels and not performing the way it was expected to. Happens probably more often than not throughout history. Changing tactics and technology also have a huge part of it. France at the onset of WW2 was considered one of the largest and best equipped and maintained army the world has ever seen. It was feared. And then it collapsed due to poor decisions and tactics.
Everyone knows how deadly advanced man portable missile and rocket systems are, but to my knowledge they haven't been brought to bear in the numbers and overall reliance like they are now. Russia underestimated them for sure. They ****ed around and found out.
Or they let the civilians depart via humanitarian evacuation corridor in a given city, and declare that all civilian non-combatants were evacuated or were given a chance to depart before serious shelling starts on whatever Russia is calling the combatants.Rossticus said:2wealfth Man said:No ceasefire; just humanitarian corridors for civilians and supplies appears to be the agreementCaptain Positivity said:
Ceasefire allows Russia to catch up and resupply. They've been known to not exactly follow ceasefires in the past.
They'll wait until they are ready, claim provocation, and start fighting again.
Calling it. Russia steals supplies and redistributes to their troops instead. Uses as default supply line supplementation.
Also a good chance that Russia targets a humanitarian evac corridor and blames it in Ukrainian military.
Plays into their PR efforts.
I don't know if it's much different other than being the first big social media war.
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