***Russian - Ukraine War Tactical and Strategic Updates*** [Warning on OP]

7,636,475 Views | 47866 Replies | Last: 12 hrs ago by EastSideAg2002
Jarrin' Jay
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Well I should clarify my comments, RUS has not even TRIED to establish air superiority, most of their planes are grounded. I expected, as did all military experts and even those with a rudimentary interest, that the RUS air force would be fully committed in the first 24-48 hours to knock out all UK command and control, air fields, UK fighter aircraft/helos/transport, support paratroopers taking key bridges, etc.

You would have expected the skies over UK and Kyiv in particular to be swarming with SU and Mig attack and fighters. There has been almost none of that. With all the video and reporting one would have expected to see dozens of videos, tweets, reports daily of sortie after sortie of Russian air force in combat. I have no doubt that if RUS fully committed their air force they could establish air superiority to make things on the ground easier, but for whatever reason they have not even tried.
AggieKO
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Agthatbuilds said:



That one guy gave no ****s
GAC06
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BadMoonRisin said:

Why are they dumping chaff?


Those are flares to defend against infrared guided missiles. Either reactive or preemptive
MagnumLoad
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Death is certain. Fight for right while you live. That is how we became a nation. It is the only way we will remain a nation.
I hate tu. It's in my blood.
Robert C. Christian
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JobSecurity said:


Well, looks like he is speaking directly now.
Keegan99
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MagnumLoad said:

dodger02 said:

YouBet said:

MagnumLoad said:

Why has not Russia established air superiority? Have they made a deal to prevent USA/NATO intervention?


Earlier analysis said they have no guided munitions putting their pilots, who are already not trained well, and best assets at severe risk. Hoping they wouldn't need them.
Do I read this to mean that they simply don't have the capability, at all, within the Russian military to drop guided bombs? Or is it that they don't have those currently deployed in Ukraine?

The more I read and see of them rolling old rusted out cold-war era equipment and dropping dumb bombs at low altitudes, the more I start to question this whole "superpower" designation.


Then we should establish the no fly zone and call their bluff. No way those who would have to cooperate will allow putin to use strategic nuclear weapons. No matter, we should not be dissuaded from doing what is right. Doing so makes our own doom certain. putin hides in a mountain while he sends boys to commit atrocities and die. F that *******!

So your argument is that we can get away with establishing a no-fly zone because there will be certain insubordination in the Russian army ranks?

You're going to rest the fate of humanity on the willingness of hundreds of Russian officers to disobey orders? Knowing that if even one obeys, we have nuclear war?

Are you actually thinking this through?
GAC06
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LMCane said:

jabberwalkie09 said:

aeroag14 said:

dodger02 said:

YouBet said:

MagnumLoad said:

Why has not Russia established air superiority? Have they made a deal to prevent USA/NATO intervention?


Earlier analysis said they have no guided munitions putting their pilots, who are already not trained well, and best assets at severe risk. Hoping they wouldn't need them.
Do I read this to mean that they simply don't have the capability, at all, within the Russian military to drop guided bombs? Or is it that they don't have those currently deployed in Ukraine?

The more I read and see of them rolling old rusted out cold-war era equipment and dropping dumb bombs at low altitudes, the more I start to question this whole "superpower" designation.
I believe that they do have guided munitions. Just very few of them as they are relatively very expensive. So, no, I do not believe they have deployed them. But I also think that they dont want to use them because they can not quickly replenish their stock.

This is the best answer that I think anyone can come to. This is of course not only true for air delivered munitions but I have a feeling that this also applies to their cruise missiles as well. I'm sure they have more of those though, but at some point I think we will see Iksander missile strikes begin to lessen as their stores dwindle.


there are very few Russian videos even posted anywhere as they have forbidden their troops to use social media. so how anyone is claiming that the Russian Air Force is using or is not using smart munitions is a total unknown.

the Russkies could be using guided munitions against Uke armored vehicles and "plinking" them as we did in the desert in Kuwait in 1991.

No one really knows right now- certainly no civilian knows for sure what exactly is happening.


FW guided munitions weren't really used much against tanks in 91. They were a small proportion of bombs dropped and went largely to high value targets.

Edit: at least bombs. IR mavericks are another story. CBU's did the heavy lifting against their stuff in the desert
Houston Lee
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RebelE Infantry said:

MagnumLoad said:

dodger02 said:

YouBet said:

MagnumLoad said:

Why has not Russia established air superiority? Have they made a deal to prevent USA/NATO intervention?


Earlier analysis said they have no guided munitions putting their pilots, who are already not trained well, and best assets at severe risk. Hoping they wouldn't need them.
Do I read this to mean that they simply don't have the capability, at all, within the Russian military to drop guided bombs? Or is it that they don't have those currently deployed in Ukraine?

The more I read and see of them rolling old rusted out cold-war era equipment and dropping dumb bombs at low altitudes, the more I start to question this whole "superpower" designation.


Then we should establish the no fly zone and call their bluff. No way those who would have to cooperate will allow putin to use strategic nuclear weapons. No matter, we should not be dissuaded from doing what is right. Doing so makes our own doom certain. putin hides in a mountain while he sends boys to commit atrocities and die. F that *******!


I know this has been stated a whole bunch, but it must be said every single time this is brought up- to establish a no fly zone is to put full nuclear exchange on the table.

You say that there's no way they will launch. Are you willing to wager the fate of the world and everyone you love on it?
Is Russia wiling to wager the fate of the world and everyone they love on it? You need to be asking THEM this question because they would be the one to use a nuke first. And I say "NO" they wont do it. They moment they do, they all die.
ABATTBQ11
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Bag said:

TRM said:


Whoa, what weapon system can pop a top off a tank like that? Is that the Javelin?

War is hell, and that is one terrible way to go out.


Many weapons. Russian tanks prior to the T-90 didn't have a separate munitions compartment, so basically anything that penetrates and hits their munitions will blow the turret off.
jabberwalkie09
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MagnumLoad said:

dodger02 said:

YouBet said:

MagnumLoad said:

Why has not Russia established air superiority? Have they made a deal to prevent USA/NATO intervention?


Earlier analysis said they have no guided munitions putting their pilots, who are already not trained well, and best assets at severe risk. Hoping they wouldn't need them.
Do I read this to mean that they simply don't have the capability, at all, within the Russian military to drop guided bombs? Or is it that they don't have those currently deployed in Ukraine?

The more I read and see of them rolling old rusted out cold-war era equipment and dropping dumb bombs at low altitudes, the more I start to question this whole "superpower" designation.


Then we should establish the no fly zone and call their bluff. No way those who would have to cooperate will allow putin to use strategic nuclear weapons. No matter, we should not be dissuaded from doing what is right. Doing so makes our own doom certain. putin hides in a mountain while he sends boys to commit atrocities and die. F that *******!

I feel like we hear this same thought process on this suggestion of a no-fly zone on the daily in this thread. Summary for why this is unworkable:

Air dominance would need to be secured by force, possibly including air strikes as well. That means missiles coming off the rails to secure an area. Doing this would be viewed as an act of war by Russia.

Who is going to enact this no-fly zone? The non-NATO Baltic states? Unlikely, it would probably be us and a coalition of NATO forces.

Realistically there is no way that a no-fly zone doesn't result in war between NATO and Russia, which would mean a nuclear war given the current climate and leadership.
JFABNRGR
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RebelE Infantry said:

MagnumLoad said:

dodger02 said:

YouBet said:

MagnumLoad said:

Why has not Russia established air superiority? Have they made a deal to prevent USA/NATO intervention?


Earlier analysis said they have no guided munitions putting their pilots, who are already not trained well, and best assets at severe risk. Hoping they wouldn't need them.
Do I read this to mean that they simply don't have the capability, at all, within the Russian military to drop guided bombs? Or is it that they don't have those currently deployed in Ukraine?

The more I read and see of them rolling old rusted out cold-war era equipment and dropping dumb bombs at low altitudes, the more I start to question this whole "superpower" designation.


Then we should establish the no fly zone and call their bluff. No way those who would have to cooperate will allow putin to use strategic nuclear weapons. No matter, we should not be dissuaded from doing what is right. Doing so makes our own doom certain. putin hides in a mountain while he sends boys to commit atrocities and die. F that *******!


I know this has been stated a whole bunch, but it must be said every single time this is brought up- to establish a no fly zone is to put full nuclear exchange on the table.

You say that there's no way they will launch. Are you willing to wager the fate of the world and everyone you love on it?
Multiple countries around the world have already established NO FLY ZONES to russia, over their sovereign countries effectively shutting down almost ALL russian air travel. Why is Ukraine any different they are also a sovereign country?
ABATTBQ11
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Dirt 05 said:

Conflict Off Ramp

Probably need to be humming Kum-bay-ya to read this one.



General resolution through UN.

1. To give Putin an out for demobilization of Ukrainian military UN will send international non-NATO forces in country, using nato logistics move then to border or sea and airports. Important that sourced from Latin America, Asia, Africa. Ukraine will pass law similar to Japan's sdf, and eliminate srbm from arsenal.

2. De-nazification - disband azov battalion, have Ukraine gov pass some equal rights/hate crime legislation.

3. Lift sanctions 100% upon withdrawal of last Russian soldier across pre invasion line.

4. Eastern regions placed under UN administrative control.

5. Frozen state assets used for reconstruction/rehabilitation of Ukraine's cities and people. Additionally significant UN budget redirected to Ukraine for similar effort (thinking 100% of climate change).



At this point, sanctions should stay in place until Russia has agreed to complete nuclear disarmament. No more of this bull****.
PJYoung
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Keegan99
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Good point. Ukraine is free to enforce a no-fly zone over their country.
CanyonAg77
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JFABNRGR said:

RebelE Infantry said:

MagnumLoad said:

dodger02 said:

YouBet said:

MagnumLoad said:

Why has not Russia established air superiority? Have they made a deal to prevent USA/NATO intervention?


Earlier analysis said they have no guided munitions putting their pilots, who are already not trained well, and best assets at severe risk. Hoping they wouldn't need them.
Do I read this to mean that they simply don't have the capability, at all, within the Russian military to drop guided bombs? Or is it that they don't have those currently deployed in Ukraine?

The more I read and see of them rolling old rusted out cold-war era equipment and dropping dumb bombs at low altitudes, the more I start to question this whole "superpower" designation.


Then we should establish the no fly zone and call their bluff. No way those who would have to cooperate will allow putin to use strategic nuclear weapons. No matter, we should not be dissuaded from doing what is right. Doing so makes our own doom certain. putin hides in a mountain while he sends boys to commit atrocities and die. F that *******!


I know this has been stated a whole bunch, but it must be said every single time this is brought up- to establish a no fly zone is to put full nuclear exchange on the table.

You say that there's no way they will launch. Are you willing to wager the fate of the world and everyone you love on it?
Multiple countries around the world have already established NO FLY ZONES to russia, over their sovereign countries effectively shutting down almost ALL russian air travel. Why is Ukraine any different they are also a sovereign country?

There's a huge difference in not allowing airliners in, and declaring that any military aircraft that enters Ukraine will be shot down.

I don't think you understand what is meant by a no-fly zone.
CanyonAg77
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AG
Keegan99 said:

Good point. Ukraine is free to enforce a no-fly zone over their country.
True, obviously the calls are for NATO to declare and enforce it.

No thanks.
ABATTBQ11
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JFABNRGR said:

RebelE Infantry said:

MagnumLoad said:

dodger02 said:

YouBet said:

MagnumLoad said:

Why has not Russia established air superiority? Have they made a deal to prevent USA/NATO intervention?


Earlier analysis said they have no guided munitions putting their pilots, who are already not trained well, and best assets at severe risk. Hoping they wouldn't need them.
Do I read this to mean that they simply don't have the capability, at all, within the Russian military to drop guided bombs? Or is it that they don't have those currently deployed in Ukraine?

The more I read and see of them rolling old rusted out cold-war era equipment and dropping dumb bombs at low altitudes, the more I start to question this whole "superpower" designation.


Then we should establish the no fly zone and call their bluff. No way those who would have to cooperate will allow putin to use strategic nuclear weapons. No matter, we should not be dissuaded from doing what is right. Doing so makes our own doom certain. putin hides in a mountain while he sends boys to commit atrocities and die. F that *******!


I know this has been stated a whole bunch, but it must be said every single time this is brought up- to establish a no fly zone is to put full nuclear exchange on the table.

You say that there's no way they will launch. Are you willing to wager the fate of the world and everyone you love on it?
Multiple countries around the world have already established NO FLY ZONES to russia, over their sovereign countries effectively shutting down almost ALL russian air travel. Why is Ukraine any different they are also a sovereign country?


Because those countries are capable of enforcing those restrictions against Russia on their own. Ukraine would need outside help, and that would necessarily come in the form of destroying Russian military assets.
GAC06
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PJYoung said:




Well there's the likely answer to the flight that turned around
PJYoung
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Waffledynamics
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PJYoung said:




Turnabout is fair play, and Russia continues to isolate itself. It's a shame Europe doesnt have more LNG terminals to put the screws to their O&G money, and new ones don't just appear out of thin air.
RebelE Infantry
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JFABNRGR said:

RebelE Infantry said:

MagnumLoad said:

dodger02 said:

YouBet said:

MagnumLoad said:

Why has not Russia established air superiority? Have they made a deal to prevent USA/NATO intervention?


Earlier analysis said they have no guided munitions putting their pilots, who are already not trained well, and best assets at severe risk. Hoping they wouldn't need them.
Do I read this to mean that they simply don't have the capability, at all, within the Russian military to drop guided bombs? Or is it that they don't have those currently deployed in Ukraine?

The more I read and see of them rolling old rusted out cold-war era equipment and dropping dumb bombs at low altitudes, the more I start to question this whole "superpower" designation.


Then we should establish the no fly zone and call their bluff. No way those who would have to cooperate will allow putin to use strategic nuclear weapons. No matter, we should not be dissuaded from doing what is right. Doing so makes our own doom certain. putin hides in a mountain while he sends boys to commit atrocities and die. F that *******!


I know this has been stated a whole bunch, but it must be said every single time this is brought up- to establish a no fly zone is to put full nuclear exchange on the table.

You say that there's no way they will launch. Are you willing to wager the fate of the world and everyone you love on it?
Multiple countries around the world have already established NO FLY ZONES to russia, over their sovereign countries effectively shutting down almost ALL russian air travel. Why is Ukraine any different they are also a sovereign country?


Uhhhhh I'm not sure if you've heard, but there's an active war going on over there right now…
TRM
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Summary of yesterday's fighting


ABATTBQ11
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NSIAP

Ukraine forces reportedly kill Russian general Andrei Sukhovetsky:
https://www.newsweek.com/russia-ukraine-sukhovetsky-conflict-1684441
JFABNRGR
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The only thing that needs to be understood is that russia has already declared war by invading a country without cause, and as we speak is destroying a country and their people without remorse. To not come to their defense in any way possible, even if it means sacrifice, is tragic in itself.

I clearly understand what a no fly zone is and that russia will have to chose go home(stay down) or risk retaliation, which they are already receiving from all other sorts of munitions donated from around the world.
PJYoung
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TRM
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MouthBQ98
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Russia's military is not set up like a western one.

It is not designed for an air superiority combined arms attack in depth with heavy air attacks in a sophisticated attack campaign to disrupt command, control, and logistics in close coordination with a tactical air campaign to affect the battlefield combat units. In the US for example, There is less ground based AA and only moderate use of artillery and rockets, with the air superiority and air attack focus being so heavy.

Rather, Russia is set up to counter this type of combat with an extremely heavy deployment of SAM air defense and air superiority aircraft to deny their opposition use of air combat, while Russia relies very heavily on artillery and rocket attacks, and much less so in air attack, outside of tactical helicopters. They do have some of those air assets and missile assets, but they aren't nearly as developed and utilized as western air attack assets are. Russia atttacks ground targets with ground forces and helicopters.
RangerRick9211
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Putin on:
Keegan99
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JFABNRGR said:

The only thing that needs to be understood is that russia has already declared war by invading a country without cause, and as we speak is destroying a country and their people without remorse. To not come to their defense in any way possible, even if it means sacrifice, is tragic in itself.

I clearly understand what a no fly zone is and that russia will have to chose go home(stay down) or risk retaliation, which they are already receiving from all other sorts of munitions donated from around the world.

Your "sacrifice" is nuclear war, dude.

Ukrainians operating materiel from other nations is VERY different from NATO personnel shooting down Russian military aircraft.
rathAG05
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ABATTBQ11 said:

Dirt 05 said:

Conflict Off Ramp

Probably need to be humming Kum-bay-ya to read this one.



General resolution through UN.

1. To give Putin an out for demobilization of Ukrainian military UN will send international non-NATO forces in country, using nato logistics move then to border or sea and airports. Important that sourced from Latin America, Asia, Africa. Ukraine will pass law similar to Japan's sdf, and eliminate srbm from arsenal.

2. De-nazification - disband azov battalion, have Ukraine gov pass some equal rights/hate crime legislation.

3. Lift sanctions 100% upon withdrawal of last Russian soldier across pre invasion line.

4. Eastern regions placed under UN administrative control.

5. Frozen state assets used for reconstruction/rehabilitation of Ukraine's cities and people. Additionally significant UN budget redirected to Ukraine for similar effort (thinking 100% of climate change).



At this point, sanctions should stay in place until Russia has agreed to complete nuclear disarmament. No more of this bull****.


My thoughts exactly.
TRM
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AG
This will make the Russians happy.
DannyDuberstein
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Keegan99 said:

JFABNRGR said:

The only thing that needs to be understood is that russia has already declared war by invading a country without cause, and as we speak is destroying a country and their people without remorse. To not come to their defense in any way possible, even if it means sacrifice, is tragic in itself.

I clearly understand what a no fly zone is and that russia will have to chose go home(stay down) or risk retaliation, which they are already receiving from all other sorts of munitions donated from around the world.

Your "sacrifice" is nuclear war, dude.

Ukrainians operating materiel from other nations is VERY different from NATO personnel shooting down Russian military aircraft.



Seriously, i don't understand these people. Are they too young to have lived thru the cold war and don't understand being on the brink of nuclear war? Have we raised a generation that has no clue how close we've been before and how little it would take for it all to end?
jabberwalkie09
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AG

I know this was posted earlier, but the Ukrainian allegations are the first I've seen. Probably propaganda allegations, but this is pointing towards shipping in the Black Sea becoming more hazardous.
Choobadooba
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Currently listening, these are my notes:

Blames Ukraine for putting military equipment next to schools and residential areas.

Says Ukraine is using civilians are human body shields and preventing citizens from fleeing

Calls them Neonazi's several times

Mentions payouts for military for loss and life and injury. 5mil RUB for loss of life and 2.9mil RUB for permanent injury.

Implies Ukraine is threatening Russia with nuclear weapons

Says that their invasion is going according to plan

TRM
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AG
This is the bridge from Russia to Crimea. Too late to do this.

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