***Russian - Ukraine War Tactical and Strategic Updates*** [Warning on OP]

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Eliminatus
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In reply to dtkprowler • 10:04a, 3/2/22
AG
dtkprowler said:
baron_von_awesome said:
SidsBurnerAccount said:


There are numerous videos of abandoned equipment and captured Russians soldiers all over twitter. I'm not posting all of them, but the volume indicates that the general tenor of what the Ukes are saying is true even if there are obvious propaganda stories being put out.
You can see the metal cage on the top of the tank, they are installing those to try and defeat Javelin attacks. Which has nothing to do with the propaganda angle, just I have been seeing videos and stuff on the Russian fear of top down missile anti-tank missile attacks for a couple of months.


Not sure if the metal cages work or not, but they should
That's a joke right? Javelin missile made to pierce tank armor and they hope a welded together metal cage is going to protect them? I really hope they are that stupid.
It's actually works for the simpler anti armor stuff like RPGs.

Shaped charges use something called the Monroe Effect. Essentially it is using the collapsing waves of explosive force to create a "jet" of plasma if you will as a penetrator. That is what penetrates armor. Hot ass gas formed into a point. The good stuff will also have a copper cup that will invert, and also become part of the jet for extra power. Think of using you cupped hands to squirt water. Very basic idea but similar-ish.

The thing is, for a plasma jet you have to have precise standoff from the target to work effectively. It comes together at a certain point and has max penetration power at the point a certain distance from the top of the explosive. This is very precisely calculated and called the standoff distance. Every HEAT warhead has a hollow tip and this is the standoff.



Found a cool GIF that gives a good visual of it:



So, if you can disrupt the DISTANCE from the explosive and the target, make the standoff greater, you disrupt the plasma jet and it is drastically loses it's capability. We are talking mere inches extra distance to nullify penetrating power. We do it for our stuff to.



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rally-cap
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In reply to Eliminatus • 10:06a, 3/2/22
AG
Eliminatus said:
dtkprowler said:
baron_von_awesome said:
SidsBurnerAccount said:


There are numerous videos of abandoned equipment and captured Russians soldiers all over twitter. I'm not posting all of them, but the volume indicates that the general tenor of what the Ukes are saying is true even if there are obvious propaganda stories being put out.
You can see the metal cage on the top of the tank, they are installing those to try and defeat Javelin attacks. Which has nothing to do with the propaganda angle, just I have been seeing videos and stuff on the Russian fear of top down missile anti-tank missile attacks for a couple of months.


Not sure if the metal cages work or not, but they should
That's a joke right? Javelin missile made to pierce tank armor and they hope a welded together metal cage is going to protect them? I really hope they are that stupid.
It's actually works for the simpler anti armor stuff like RPGs.

Shaped charges use something called the Monroe Effect. Essentially it is using the collapsing waves of explosive force to create a "jet" of plasma if you will as a penetrator. That is what penetrates armor. Hot ass gas formed into a point. Think of using you cupped hands to squirt water. Very basic idea but similar-ish.

The thing is, for a plasma jet you have to have precise standoff from the target to work effectively. It comes together at a certain point and has max penetration power at the point a certain distance from the top of the explosive. This is very precisely calculated and called the standoff distance. Every HEAT warhead has a hollow tip and this is the standoff.



So, if you can disrupt the DISTANCE from the explosive and the target, make the standoff greater, you disrupt the plasma jet and it is drastically loses it's capability. We are talking mere inches extra distance to nullify penetrating power. We do it for our stuff to.



Spot on. Great explanation.
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stetson
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In reply to Rapier108 • 10:09a, 3/2/22
AG
Rapier108 said:
one MEEN Ag said:
Isn't the whole point of the F22 that they don't do dogfights any more? The air to air missiles get launched over the horizon.
True, the F-22 is designed to take out its opponents before they ever see it, but it is also designed to be highly maneuverable in the event it does get into a dogfight. That's why it still has a 20mm cannon as part of armament.
The event would be something called visual threat identification. MEEN Ag's thought was the philosophy going into Vietnam before the Johnson administration's rules of engagement included pilots having to make visual identification and verification that an aircraft was hostile, which often put them in proximity to the threat where missiles were not effective. A cannon was then added to the F-4.
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JobSecurity
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10:11a, 3/2/22
AG
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MouthBQ98
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10:13a, 3/2/22
AG
I believe NLOS and javelin use downward firing explosively formed projectile, set off by a proximity detector above the target. They detonate without requiring an impact to activate the fusing device.

Older HEAT warheads required an impact and were designed to explode a certain stand-off distance from the armored surface to optimize the penetrative formed projectile or jet, and if the projectile hit something back away from the primary armor, it would be detonated outside it's effective range or it might not hit anything solid enough to detonate it at all.

These new weapons use much more sophisticated target detection to determine when to detonate and fire one or more explosively formed projectiles designed to work at a greater distance, so these stand-off devices don't work.
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No Spin Ag
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In reply to 92Ag95 • 10:15a, 3/2/22
92Ag95 said:
So Russia can just do what it wants and threaten nuclear war if interfered with?

Time to level the Kremlin


This.
There are in fact two things, science and opinion; the former begets knowledge, the later ignorance. Hippocrates
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JobSecurity
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10:16a, 3/2/22
AG
Russian media
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aTmAg
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In reply to MouthBQ98 • 10:16a, 3/2/22
AG
Interesting emoji choice.
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2wealfth Man
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In reply to USAFAg • 10:18a, 3/2/22
AG
USA*** said:
baron_von_awesome said:
one MEEN Ag said:
Man, if the main counter defense against javelins is a steel pergola, the javelin is still going to punch through it.
Maybe so, but it still might work to defeat the attacks.


Appears to be using a SPACED armor and REACTIVE armor approach to top attack. Spaced armor gets the initial clearing warhead to detonate while the reactive armor deals with the second warhead.

Should work in theory, don't know in actual practice...
i for sure wouldn't want to test it out in a Russian tank
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DTP02
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In reply to Not a Bot • 10:20a, 3/2/22
AG
Captain Positivity said:
Ukrainian Sec of Defense saying some members of FSB are against the war and sending them intel.

https://www.foxnews.com/world/chechen-hit-squad-sent-murder-zelenskyy-eliminated

Quote:

Secretary of the National Security and Defence Council Oleksiy Danilov reportedly told the Ukraine 24 TV channel that defense forces countered two death squads sent after Zelenskyy Tuesday, according to a translation of his remarks.
He said Ukrainian forces got intelligence about a planned attack on Zelenskyy and destroyed an elite Chechen unit.
"The special operation that was to be carried out directly by the Kadyrovites to eliminate our president is fully known to us today, and I can say that we received information from representatives of the FSB, who today have no desire to take part in this bloody war," he said.


This reads like classic psy ops: try to get the dictator to doubt his closest and most powerful supporters (this is the FSB moreso than even the oligarchs) and get him to turn on them, thus creating the dissension that may not have been there originally.
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aTmAg
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In reply to DTP02 • 10:24a, 3/2/22
AG
DTP02 said:
Captain Positivity said:
Ukrainian Sec of Defense saying some members of FSB are against the war and sending them intel.

https://www.foxnews.com/world/chechen-hit-squad-sent-murder-zelenskyy-eliminated

Quote:

Secretary of the National Security and Defence Council Oleksiy Danilov reportedly told the Ukraine 24 TV channel that defense forces countered two death squads sent after Zelenskyy Tuesday, according to a translation of his remarks.
He said Ukrainian forces got intelligence about a planned attack on Zelenskyy and destroyed an elite Chechen unit.
"The special operation that was to be carried out directly by the Kadyrovites to eliminate our president is fully known to us today, and I can say that we received information from representatives of the FSB, who today have no desire to take part in this bloody war," he said.


This reads like classic psy ops: try to get the dictator to doubt his closest and most powerful supporters (this is the FSB moreso than even the oligarchs) and get him to turn on them, thus creating the dissension that may not have been there originally.
This would have to be true for it to work. If Putin didn't send a Chechen hit squad, then he would see that it was bogus.
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Ulrich
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In reply to JobSecurity • 10:25a, 3/2/22
Russia, in trying to create defensive depth against the west, may have pushed several nations directly into the western alliance.
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LMCane
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In reply to JobSecurity • 10:25a, 3/2/22
JobSecurity said:
Russian media
Georgia better hope that the Red Army remains bogged down in Ukraine for the next few years.

Putin I am sure is yelling at some of his henchmen as we type.

Finland and Sweden better ask for NATO membership ASAP before Putin turns north towards "liberating" kaliningrad
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Not a Bot
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In reply to HTownAg98 • 10:25a, 3/2/22
AG
HTownAg98 said:
JJxvi said:
Other than typical "the war is going well" what kind of propaganda is the Russian side even going to put out. They claim they are liberating the people from Nazis. They would need Ukranian celebrations in squares or like "discovering the camps where the Russians are being held" or some other nonsense.
I saw a great Twitter thread yesterday going into detail about this. The gist of it was that the Russian soldiers were told they were liberating the Ukrainians from Nazi control, and expected to be greeted as heroes. Instead, they're being told "go **** yourself," and this is causing low morale in the frontline troops. That information is trickling back into Russia now, but I don't know if it will be enough to cause a groundswell of support to oust Vlad.
They can't put out propaganda the same way the Ukes are. Their initial narrative backed them into a corner. They would have to admit to their people it was an invasion and that their troops were fighting for territory. The best they've tried to do is insinuate the Ukes are bombing their own cities.
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RONA Ag
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In reply to JobSecurity • 10:25a, 3/2/22
AG
JobSecurity said:
Russian media


Not sure why they aren't submitting to NATO more so. Putins worst nightmare is about to come true
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BlueSmoke
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In reply to JobSecurity • 10:26a, 3/2/22
[We have made it clear that we are going to keep this thread free of jokes and memes that add nothing to the content. -Staff]
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tk111
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10:28a, 3/2/22
AG
"The situation is awful, we are near to a humanitarian catastrophe."

Yeah that's generally what war tends to be
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YouBet
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In reply to LMCane • 10:28a, 3/2/22
AG
LMCane said:
JobSecurity said:
Russian media
Georgia better hope that the Red Army remains bogged down in Ukraine for the next few years.

Putin I am sure is yelling at some of his henchmen as we type.

Finland and Sweden better ask for NATO membership ASAP before Putin turns north towards "liberating" kaliningrad
They essentially are already members of NATO. If Putin went there, it would trigger NATO response regardless.

The planet has decided to sacrifice Ukraine. They won't sacrifice Finland and Sweden.
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Not a Bot
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In reply to aTmAg • 10:28a, 3/2/22
AG
The Chechens were posting selfies in Ukraine.
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JobSecurity
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10:29a, 3/2/22
AG
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TRM
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10:30a, 3/2/22
AG
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bmks270
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In reply to 92Ag95 • 10:30a, 3/2/22
AG
92Ag95 said:
So Russia can just do what it wants and threaten nuclear war if interfered with?


Yes.

Who wants to risk the sacrifice of their family or entire city or many thousands to millions out of principle?
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RebelE Infantry
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In reply to No Spin Ag • 10:31a, 3/2/22
AG
No Spin Ag said:
92Ag95 said:
So Russia can just do what it wants and threaten nuclear war if interfered with?

Time to level the Kremlin


This.


"This" is in practical terms advocating for a full nuclear exchange with Russia. It's the peak of insanity.
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AggieKO
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10:32a, 3/2/22
AG
I would say zero chance a nuke gets launched anywhere by Russia…… but it has happened before. Or attempted
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DallasAg 94
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In reply to JobSecurity • 10:32a, 3/2/22
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Who?mikejones!
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10:32a, 3/2/22


Per usual on these things- this was decided long ago
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K2-HMFIC
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In reply to RebelE Infantry • 10:32a, 3/2/22
RebelE Infantry said:
No Spin Ag said:
92Ag95 said:
So Russia can just do what it wants and threaten nuclear war if interfered with?

Time to level the Kremlin


This.


"This" is in practical terms advocating for a full nuclear exchange with Russia. It's the peak of insanity.


I'm a Russia hawk, but declaring war on a country with 1,550 strategic nuclear warheads is a bad idea.
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DTP02
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In reply to aTmAg • 10:33a, 3/2/22
AG
aTmAg said:
DTP02 said:
Captain Positivity said:
Ukrainian Sec of Defense saying some members of FSB are against the war and sending them intel.

https://www.foxnews.com/world/chechen-hit-squad-sent-murder-zelenskyy-eliminated

Quote:

Secretary of the National Security and Defence Council Oleksiy Danilov reportedly told the Ukraine 24 TV channel that defense forces countered two death squads sent after Zelenskyy Tuesday, according to a translation of his remarks.
He said Ukrainian forces got intelligence about a planned attack on Zelenskyy and destroyed an elite Chechen unit.
"The special operation that was to be carried out directly by the Kadyrovites to eliminate our president is fully known to us today, and I can say that we received information from representatives of the FSB, who today have no desire to take part in this bloody war," he said.


This reads like classic psy ops: try to get the dictator to doubt his closest and most powerful supporters (this is the FSB moreso than even the oligarchs) and get him to turn on them, thus creating the dissension that may not have been there originally.
This would have to be true for it to work. If Putin didn't send a Chechen hit squad, then he would see that it was bogus.


Obviously the psy ops part being that they were informed of it by FSB.

The Ukrainian propaganda machine has really been quite impressive and sophisticated, which to me strongly implies that we are running it or at least providing very hands on coaching.
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TRM
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10:33a, 3/2/22
AG
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W
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10:34a, 3/2/22
AG
as the destruction continues...it may be time for the "open city" designation for some places in the eastern half.

otherwise there won't be much left
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K2-HMFIC
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In reply to aTmAg • 10:34a, 3/2/22
aTmAg said:
DTP02 said:
Captain Positivity said:
Ukrainian Sec of Defense saying some members of FSB are against the war and sending them intel.

https://www.foxnews.com/world/chechen-hit-squad-sent-murder-zelenskyy-eliminated

Quote:

Secretary of the National Security and Defence Council Oleksiy Danilov reportedly told the Ukraine 24 TV channel that defense forces countered two death squads sent after Zelenskyy Tuesday, according to a translation of his remarks.
He said Ukrainian forces got intelligence about a planned attack on Zelenskyy and destroyed an elite Chechen unit.
"The special operation that was to be carried out directly by the Kadyrovites to eliminate our president is fully known to us today, and I can say that we received information from representatives of the FSB, who today have no desire to take part in this bloody war," he said.


This reads like classic psy ops: try to get the dictator to doubt his closest and most powerful supporters (this is the FSB moreso than even the oligarchs) and get him to turn on them, thus creating the dissension that may not have been there originally.
This would have to be true for it to work. If Putin didn't send a Chechen hit squad, then he would see that it was bogus.


Supposedly there are elements of the FSB that hate Kadyrov…so it could be true.
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W
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In reply to Who?mikejones! • 10:37a, 3/2/22
AG
it was kind of a joke that they were waiting until after the Olympics to invade...

maybe it was not
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Ghost of Bisbee
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10:37a, 3/2/22
AG
For those seriously thinking a war with Russia is the right move, go watch "Threads" movie on YouTube. It will change your mind faster than anyone here will.
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TRM
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10:38a, 3/2/22
AG
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2wealfth Man
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In reply to W • 10:38a, 3/2/22
AG
W said:
as the destruction continues...it may be time for the "open city" designation for some places in the eastern half.

otherwise there won't be much left



why, so you could submit to Soviet-style de-nazification? No thanks, I'll fight.
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