Exactly. Perfect comparison.

Texasaggie32 said:

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solishu said:

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Several sources are reporting that Ukrainians have retaken the Hostomel Airport.

https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1496925642520088588?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

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False news apparently

https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1496928031474171905?s=20&t=UQ1qCaVLdI3FQlGDTVuCgQ

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:/

Unrest growing in Russia? LETTER

74OA said:

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Unrest growing in Russia? LETTER

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There's enough evidence to show that the Russian public at large is not happy. Unfortunately, Putin will see these people as dissidents and well….

jabberwalkie09 said:

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74OA said:

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Unrest growing in Russia? LETTER

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There's enough evidence to show that the Russian public at large is not happy. Unfortunately, Putin will see these people as dissidents and well….

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They'll just go to detention camps along with the Ukrainians.

TRM said:

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jabberwalkie09 said:

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74OA said:

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Unrest growing in Russia? LETTER

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There's enough evidence to show that the Russian public at large is not happy. Unfortunately, Putin will see these people as dissidents and well….

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They've just go to detention camps along with the Ukrainians.

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Yep.

Man...the lack of concern from these guys, when the missile hits is surprising. I think I'd be getting out of there, assuming there might be more to come.

L’aéroport de Ivano-Frankivsk en #Ukraine est bombardé ce matin. pic.twitter.com/1SSaNEKZUv

— Andreï VAITOVICH (@andreivaitovich) February 24, 2022

74OA said:

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jabberwalkie09 said:

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74OA said:

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Unrest growing in Russia? LETTER

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There's enough evidence to show that the Russian public at large is not happy. Unfortunately, Putin will see these people as dissidents and well….

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Pushkin Square, maybe less than 1000 meters from Red Square and the Kremlin, is the cite of a significant protest. These people know the risks of challenging the regime. They’re on the street in-spite of major personal costs. pic.twitter.com/bYEfbO91xG

— Alexander S. Vindman (@AVindman) February 24, 2022

Look at the size of anti-war protestors in St Petersburg, Russia. Wow pic.twitter.com/dHg9Uwt9RQ

— Ragıp Soylu (@ragipsoylu) February 24, 2022

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Tends to happen when your stock market crashes, and your country becomes public enemy #1

G Martin 87 said:

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JobSecurity said:

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"Our forces are not and will not be engaged in the conflict with Russia in Ukraine. Our forces are not going to Europe to fight in Ukraine but to defend our NATO allies and to reassure those allies in the east," Biden tells us at the White House. pic.twitter.com/5pHaVZTb9O

— Jennifer Jacobs (@JenniferJJacobs) February 24, 2022

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Does it occur to anyone that picture angles like this make America look small and weak? Sure, it's for COVID social distancing, but still. Just a really stupid image to use at a time when we need to project strength and resolve.

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"This administration and I stand united... well, we, uh... stand.. I'm still able to stand anyways..."

To go where? Who is to say the direction they are traveling won't be hit by a missile next?

Htownag11 said:

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To go where? Who is to say the direction they are traveling won't be hit by a missile next?

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Fair point.

I guess my answer would be 'further away from the known target', but you're just guessing at that point I suppose.

if interested, this link has some amazing videos of incoming missiles.

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/44443/these-are-the-standoff-missiles-russia-used-to-open-its-war-against-ukraine

Seabreeze said:

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74OA said:

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jabberwalkie09 said:

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74OA said:

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Unrest growing in Russia? LETTER

---

There's enough evidence to show that the Russian public at large is not happy. Unfortunately, Putin will see these people as dissidents and well….

---

Pushkin Square, maybe less than 1000 meters from Red Square and the Kremlin, is the cite of a significant protest. These people know the risks of challenging the regime. They’re on the street in-spite of major personal costs. pic.twitter.com/bYEfbO91xG

— Alexander S. Vindman (@AVindman) February 24, 2022

Look at the size of anti-war protestors in St Petersburg, Russia. Wow pic.twitter.com/dHg9Uwt9RQ

— Ragıp Soylu (@ragipsoylu) February 24, 2022

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Tends to happen when your stock market crashes, and your country becomes public enemy #1

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Yep, and the body bags haven't started returning to Mother Russia yet. Early days.

74OA said:

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jabberwalkie09 said:

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74OA said:

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Unrest growing in Russia? LETTER

---

There's enough evidence to show that the Russian public at large is not happy. Unfortunately, Putin will see these people as dissidents and well….

---

Pushkin Square, maybe less than 1000 meters from Red Square and the Kremlin, is the cite of a significant protest. These people know the risks of challenging the regime. They’re on the street in-spite of major personal costs. pic.twitter.com/bYEfbO91xG

— Alexander S. Vindman (@AVindman) February 24, 2022

Look at the size of anti-war protestors in St Petersburg, Russia. Wow pic.twitter.com/dHg9Uwt9RQ

— Ragıp Soylu (@ragipsoylu) February 24, 2022

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Lol what is that, around a 1,000 people? WOW!

My thought as well. Those are very unimpressive.

2023NCAggies said:

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74OA said:

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jabberwalkie09 said:

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74OA said:

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Unrest growing in Russia? LETTER

---

There's enough evidence to show that the Russian public at large is not happy. Unfortunately, Putin will see these people as dissidents and well….

---

Pushkin Square, maybe less than 1000 meters from Red Square and the Kremlin, is the cite of a significant protest. These people know the risks of challenging the regime. They’re on the street in-spite of major personal costs. pic.twitter.com/bYEfbO91xG

— Alexander S. Vindman (@AVindman) February 24, 2022

Look at the size of anti-war protestors in St Petersburg, Russia. Wow pic.twitter.com/dHg9Uwt9RQ

— Ragıp Soylu (@ragipsoylu) February 24, 2022

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Lol what is that, around a 1,000 people? WOW!

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Protests of any size are an embarrassment for Putin and, as I said, the body bags haven't even started returning to Mother Russia yet. Early days.

More from Moscow, chanting "no war." Unbelievably brave. @OvdInfo, which monitors crackdowns on Russian protests, says it's counted at least 900 arrests at demonstrations in 44 cities and towns across the country. pic.twitter.com/9Yn9mxukDr

— Alejandro Alvarez (@aletweetsnews) February 24, 2022

jabberwalkie09 said:

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LMCane said:

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jabberwalkie09 said:

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GAC06 said:

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LMCane said:

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hbtheduce said:

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LMCane said:

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JobSecurity said:

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Ukraine loses control over Hostomel airport near Kyiv and Chernobyl Nuclear Power Plant - advisor to the president’s office Mykhailo Podolyak

— Myroslava Petsa (@myroslavapetsa) February 24, 2022

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so in a country of 44 million-

there aren't 1000 troops available to move 15 minutes from the Capitol?!?!

is Biden's Customs and Border Patrol defending Kyiv?

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Or are we watching a pre-determined script of actions with parts of Ukraine military command defection or refusing to fight?

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most of the Ukraine military is definitely refusing to fight

you can't run hundreds of tanks and APCs across THE ONE BRIDGE linking Crimea with Ukraine and actually have a real army that is fighting.

for lord's sake- that bridge has been staring the Ukes in the face for years! notice how they can't block a single highway or airfield

but the truckers in the USA and Canada can block entire cities?

---

Sees tweets

Makes sweeping definitive statements

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It's looking like my response to LMC's comments earlier in the thread were just blazed right on past.

LMC- are you really expecting WW1/2 type ground defense of objectives in a conflict which isn't peer or near peer?

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was Iraq versus the USA "peer on peer"?

how long did it take the USA to conquer Baghdad in 1991? and in 2003?

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I mean, I don't to know about you but using equipment like F-117's, B-2's, and M1 Abrams not to mention cruise missiles against opfor equipment like T-72's, T-59's, and AAA emplacements doesn't exactly seem like peer or near peer to me. YMMV I guess. How we as a military function and move is also different from Russia. I think this has been covered before in the other thread. We could have absolutely steam rolled through Iraq if we wanted to but our ROE is positively more stringent than that evidenced by Russia.

Quote:

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was North Vietnam "peer on peer" against the USA from 1965-1973?

was Israel "peer to peer" against 6 Arab countries and their British trained armies in 1948? (when they had a total population of 640,000 citizens against 73 million)

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Very different theaters of war. Also, I seem to remember Israel receiving quite a bit of material and techno know how help from Europe. Obviously the North Vietnamese had help from third parties as well.

Quote:

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not sure what your point is- but there are ways to at least SLOW DOWN an invading armored column.

if Taliban, Al Qaeda, ISIS, and Iraqi insurgents could figure it out - but somehow a modern country of 44 million can't figure it out?

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Let me make an analogy then just quote myself again. Blowing up the bridge to Crimea would be like if the Mexican military invaded and annexed Galveston Island. Would we just blow up all the bridges leading to the island? If we were to retake it and the bridge was destroyed then air assault (given equitable assets to Ukraine) would be the only option and until that bridge was reestablished, retreat and reinforcement would be almost impossible.

While I understand what you're saying, the mindset of willingly sacrificing people, material, and land you don't have the equipment to retake later isn't necessarily applicable to what I'm seeing from Ukrainians.

That does not mean they will not fight tooth and nail for their country.

Quote:

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First of all calm down, take a step back, and breath. Second, go back through the thread there's evidence enough of Ukrainians putting up some resistance. They may be dying for it, but this is their fight. Ukraine's air and naval assets being destroyed was basically always accepted imo. Even most of their air defense being hit was a given. I contend that's they were given stingers since they're man portable and require little training.

Russians moving quickly was always expected. That's literally why their military is so mechanized, armor intensive, and with self propelled artillery. Ukrainians were never going to blow up their own infrastructure. Crimea to them is still Ukraine. Cutting off forces from sustainment or retreat would destroy morale. Ukraine can't afford any of that.

Russian lulled Europe and Ukraine into a false sense of reality here. Russia had done annual exercises roughly between February through April in the region for awhile. It wasn't really considered to be imminent by Europe until like the last month. By that time, it was already too late.

---

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You don't have to irretrievably destroy a bridge to make it unusable. Just go out before the war starts and drop a bunch of jersey barriers and dead car bodies parked sideways in a pile. When the Russians come out to try to move the mess to use the bridge sit back and pick them off with the weaponry of your choice. Mobile tanks are hard to stop, but tanks sitting still with other equipment and men trying to make way for them is a less hardened objective.

Kviy has a curfew but I still see a lot of civilian traffic on the Maidan Live Cam.

Would expect to see exclusively military traffic. So odd. Almost like nothing's wrong.
Also, all the lights are on.
I would expect a complete blackout so as to not give Russian pilots any visual aids

Thought this was an interesting aspect of this. Ukraine has 15 operating reactors generating 50% of the nation's power, all reactors are of Russian VVER design. Also home to the retired Chernobyl plant and containment structure over the destroyed Chernobyl Unit 4 reactor which the Russians captured to get to Kyiv.

Saw this scroll by on Twitter:

*UKRAINE REGULATORS IN TOUCH WITH IAEA OVER NUCLEAR SAFETY

— zerohedge (@zerohedge) February 24, 2022

According to World Nuclear News, no sign of military action near any of the operating plants

https://world-nuclear-news.org/Articles/A-guide-Nuclear-power-in-Ukraine

I saw lights out at 11 pm, so that is within an hour.

#BREAKING: Ukrainian Defence Minister says Kremlin preparing a new wave of attacks, including airstrikes

— ELINT News (@ELINTNews) February 24, 2022

from my contact who works at the Chernobyl Nuclear Power Plant. Tanks surrounding the plant. You can see reactors 5&6 in the background @ProfMikeWood @JackCarrUSA @SeanParnellUSA @TimKennedyMMA pic.twitter.com/YrWt8vgnLY

— Philip Grossman (@PGPImages) February 24, 2022

txags92 said:

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jabberwalkie09 said:

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LMCane said:

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jabberwalkie09 said:

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GAC06 said:

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LMCane said:

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hbtheduce said:

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LMCane said:

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JobSecurity said:

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Ukraine loses control over Hostomel airport near Kyiv and Chernobyl Nuclear Power Plant - advisor to the president’s office Mykhailo Podolyak

— Myroslava Petsa (@myroslavapetsa) February 24, 2022

---

so in a country of 44 million-

there aren't 1000 troops available to move 15 minutes from the Capitol?!?!

is Biden's Customs and Border Patrol defending Kyiv?

---

Or are we watching a pre-determined script of actions with parts of Ukraine military command defection or refusing to fight?

---

most of the Ukraine military is definitely refusing to fight

you can't run hundreds of tanks and APCs across THE ONE BRIDGE linking Crimea with Ukraine and actually have a real army that is fighting.

for lord's sake- that bridge has been staring the Ukes in the face for years! notice how they can't block a single highway or airfield

but the truckers in the USA and Canada can block entire cities?

---

Sees tweets

Makes sweeping definitive statements

---

It's looking like my response to LMC's comments earlier in the thread were just blazed right on past.

LMC- are you really expecting WW1/2 type ground defense of objectives in a conflict which isn't peer or near peer?

---

was Iraq versus the USA "peer on peer"?

how long did it take the USA to conquer Baghdad in 1991? and in 2003?

---

I mean, I don't to know about you but using equipment like F-117's, B-2's, and M1 Abrams not to mention cruise missiles against opfor equipment like T-72's, T-59's, and AAA emplacements doesn't exactly seem like peer or near peer to me. YMMV I guess. How we as a military function and move is also different from Russia. I think this has been covered before in the other thread. We could have absolutely steam rolled through Iraq if we wanted to but our ROE is positively more stringent than that evidenced by Russia.

Quote:

---

was North Vietnam "peer on peer" against the USA from 1965-1973?

was Israel "peer to peer" against 6 Arab countries and their British trained armies in 1948? (when they had a total population of 640,000 citizens against 73 million)

---

Very different theaters of war. Also, I seem to remember Israel receiving quite a bit of material and techno know how help from Europe. Obviously the North Vietnamese had help from third parties as well.

Quote:

---

not sure what your point is- but there are ways to at least SLOW DOWN an invading armored column.

if Taliban, Al Qaeda, ISIS, and Iraqi insurgents could figure it out - but somehow a modern country of 44 million can't figure it out?

---

Let me make an analogy then just quote myself again. Blowing up the bridge to Crimea would be like if the Mexican military invaded and annexed Galveston Island. Would we just blow up all the bridges leading to the island? If we were to retake it and the bridge was destroyed then air assault (given equitable assets to Ukraine) would be the only option and until that bridge was reestablished, retreat and reinforcement would be almost impossible.

While I understand what you're saying, the mindset of willingly sacrificing people, material, and land you don't have the equipment to retake later isn't necessarily applicable to what I'm seeing from Ukrainians.

That does not mean they will not fight tooth and nail for their country.

Quote:

---

First of all calm down, take a step back, and breath. Second, go back through the thread there's evidence enough of Ukrainians putting up some resistance. They may be dying for it, but this is their fight. Ukraine's air and naval assets being destroyed was basically always accepted imo. Even most of their air defense being hit was a given. I contend that's they were given stingers since they're man portable and require little training.

Russians moving quickly was always expected. That's literally why their military is so mechanized, armor intensive, and with self propelled artillery. Ukrainians were never going to blow up their own infrastructure. Crimea to them is still Ukraine. Cutting off forces from sustainment or retreat would destroy morale. Ukraine can't afford any of that.

Russian lulled Europe and Ukraine into a false sense of reality here. Russia had done annual exercises roughly between February through April in the region for awhile. It wasn't really considered to be imminent by Europe until like the last month. By that time, it was already too late.

---

---

You don't have to irretrievably destroy a bridge to make it unusable. Just go out before the war starts and drop a bunch of jersey barriers and dead car bodies parked sideways in a pile. When the Russians come out to try to move the mess to use the bridge sit back and pick them off with the weaponry of your choice. Mobile tanks are hard to stop, but tanks sitting still with other equipment and men trying to make way for them is a less hardened objective.

---

All of which are going to inhibit the movement of the defending force. I agree that barriers would be effective as opposed to destroying a bridge like was being posited. The checkpoint from Crimea to mainland didn't seem to slow down the Russians and then there was the other border control point that was clearly flattened by Russian mechanized units.

Besides dealing with reallocation of materials, Ukrainians would have had to deal with spreading an already thin force even more thin because as I mentioned, they had lulled themselves into a false sense of security that these were going to be regular exercises like years past.

Keegan99 said:

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from my contact who works at the Chernobyl Nuclear Power Plant. Tanks surrounding the plant. You can see reactors 5&6 in the background @ProfMikeWood @JackCarrUSA @SeanParnellUSA @TimKennedyMMA pic.twitter.com/YrWt8vgnLY

— Philip Grossman (@PGPImages) February 24, 2022

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Just for reference, reactors 5 and 6 were never completed due to reactor #4 going boom.

On the northern front. Chernobyl

Found a good site to follow movements

https://maphub.net/Cen4infoRes/russian-ukraine-monitor

Russian Military transport plane crashes in Southern Russia reported on Al Jazerra. No survivors

Vyshgorod, Kyiv oblast (20km from Kyiv). Looks to be Mi-8Tvs with possible rocket pods on the side. Probably a VDV Air Assault unit or elements of the Motor Rifle brigades. Most likely the 76th or 7th Guards Air Assault Division.

Seeing some of the Russian tanks with screen's welded to top of the turret. Is that an effective defense to a Javelin attack? I know the Javelin attacks from above and that is the reason for the screen, just wondering if it is effective?

If I remember correctly, we had screens attached to the side of Strykers and AAVs during Iraq to add defense against RPGs.

I haven't seen the Russian People this upset since the sanctions against P@$$& Riot…