Need a physics fact check

5,508 Views | 37 Replies | Last: 2 yr ago by eric76
Sully Dog
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This article pings my BS meter at a 10, but I don't know enough about the physics of it to explain why. So, am I wrong to be skeptical?

https://www.thebrighterside.news/post/physicists-build-circuit-that-generates-clean-limitless-power-from-graphene

Quote:

FAYETTEVILLE, Ark. A team of University of Arkansas physicists has successfully developed a circuit capable of capturing graphene's thermal motion and converting it into an electrical current.

"An energy-harvesting circuit based on graphene could be incorporated into a chip to provide clean, limitless, low-voltage power for small devices or sensors," said Paul Thibado, professor of physics and lead researcher in the discovery.

and

Quote:

The findings, titled "Fluctuation-induced current from freestanding graphene," and published in the journal Physical Review E, are proof of a theory the physicists developed at the U of A three years ago that freestanding graphene a single layer of carbon atoms ripples and buckles in a way that holds promise for energy harvesting.

The idea of harvesting energy from graphene is controversial because it refutes physicist Richard Feynman's well-known assertion that the thermal motion of atoms, known as Brownian motion, cannot do work. Thibado's team found that at room temperature the thermal motion of graphene does in fact induce an alternating current (AC) in a circuit, an achievement thought to be impossible.
Deplorable Neanderthal Clinger
Old Buffalo
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AG
If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is.
Sully Dog
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That was my second thought. My first was, "if this is true it will be the first good thing to come out of Fayetteville"
Deplorable Neanderthal Clinger
An L of an Ag
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MY BS meter pointed at "University of Arkansas physicists"!

Edit: spelling
Ragoo
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There is always friction.
FrankK
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JobSecurity
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AG
I'm sure it's real but the amount of power produced is so infinitesimally small that it will never amount to anything useful. In the article it casually mentions they'd have to put a million of these inside a 1mm sq chip for it to replace a low power battery.
Demosthenes81
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Pshaw, Sheldon solved that problem while working as a busboy at the Cheesecake Factory:



It's a WAVE!
Seven and three are ten, not only now, but forever. There has never been a time when seven and three were not ten, nor will there ever be a time when they are not ten. Therefore, I have said that the truth of number is incorruptible and common to all who think. — St. Augustine
peacedude
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http://viewzone.com/ufopropulsionx.html

BigRobSA
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So...the "vaccine"* will also serve as a battery?
"The Declaration of Independence and the US Constitution was never designed to restrain the people. It was designed to restrain the government."
GenericAggie
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One of the 3 laws of thermodynamics is being broken here. I can't remember which - age issue.
DallasAg 94
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Keegan99
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I would be very skeptical of anyone that claims to prove Feynman wrong.
TyHolden
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DallasAg 94
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doubledog
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Three laws of thermodynamics

You cannot win : you can never generative more energy than you consume.
You cannot break even : you cannot generate even the same amount of energy you consume.
You cannot get out of the game : Entropy always wins....
kb2001
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doubledog said:

Three laws of thermodynamics

You cannot win : you can never generative more energy than you consume.
You cannot break even : you cannot generate even the same amount of energy you consume.
You cannot get out of the game : Entropy always wins....
I see yo're a fan of The Wiz. Funny how they slipped in the laws of thermodynamics into the song

whoop1995
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This discussion is so far above my pay grade or out of my wheel house but I thank y'all for spending the time to bring it down to earth a little so that I can understand a fraction of it.

YouBet
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How pathetic is it that my lone reference point for graphene is the vaccine conspiracy theory? I assumed it was a fake substance.
ABATTBQ11
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YouBet said:

How pathetic is it that my lone reference point for graphene is the vaccine conspiracy theory? I assumed it was a fake substance.


Very
fasthorse05
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ABATTBQ11 said:

YouBet said:

How pathetic is it that my lone reference point for graphene is the vaccine conspiracy theory? I assumed it was a fake substance.


Very


ABATT, I'm in a similar situation. I didn't know what it was, but assumed it to be real.

Sounds like something my tennis racket is made of.
Ulrich
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I don't know enough about the details to know how this doesn't work, but it doesn't work.

Maybe there is some truth to it if it's a different way of passively capturing energy present in ambient heat or motion from the movement of a wearer.
doubledog
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kb2001 said:

doubledog said:

Three laws of thermodynamics

You cannot win : you can never generative more energy than you consume.
You cannot break even : you cannot generate even the same amount of energy you consume.
You cannot get out of the game : Entropy always wins....
I see yo're a fan of The Wiz. Funny how they slipped in the laws of thermodynamics into the song


Cute, been teaching this in P. Chem this since the 80's. Never seen the Wiz, will have to rent it now.
Jack Squat 83
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Nonetheless we should give them billions to research it further. Let them spend 5% fixing their tooth while you're at it for an incentive.
Pretty sure most of you don’t know me.
Rydyn
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I'm sure that people said all these things about nuclear power when they first heard of the "unlimited" power in an atom.
fasthorse05
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Now I did recently see where some guys actually created more power on fusion than it took to create the power.

To me, that was legit, and a first.
tlepoC
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I think this can only be done with natural alabaman graphite.
eric76
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Sully Dog said:

This article pings my BS meter at a 10, but I don't know enough about the physics of it to explain why. So, am I wrong to be skeptical?

https://www.thebrighterside.news/post/physicists-build-circuit-that-generates-clean-limitless-power-from-graphene

Quote:

FAYETTEVILLE, Ark. A team of University of Arkansas physicists has successfully developed a circuit capable of capturing graphene's thermal motion and converting it into an electrical current.

"An energy-harvesting circuit based on graphene could be incorporated into a chip to provide clean, limitless, low-voltage power for small devices or sensors," said Paul Thibado, professor of physics and lead researcher in the discovery.

and

Quote:

The findings, titled "Fluctuation-induced current from freestanding graphene," and published in the journal Physical Review E, are proof of a theory the physicists developed at the U of A three years ago that freestanding graphene a single layer of carbon atoms ripples and buckles in a way that holds promise for energy harvesting.

The idea of harvesting energy from graphene is controversial because it refutes physicist Richard Feynman's well-known assertion that the thermal motion of atoms, known as Brownian motion, cannot do work. Thibado's team found that at room temperature the thermal motion of graphene does in fact induce an alternating current (AC) in a circuit, an achievement thought to be impossible.

So can they use it to coat wind generator blades in order to increase their tax deductions because of the increased costs?
Wearer of the Ring
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So now carbon is a good thing?
FJB
kb2001
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doubledog said:

kb2001 said:

doubledog said:

Three laws of thermodynamics

You cannot win : you can never generative more energy than you consume.
You cannot break even : you cannot generate even the same amount of energy you consume.
You cannot get out of the game : Entropy always wins....
I see yo're a fan of The Wiz. Funny how they slipped in the laws of thermodynamics into the song


Cute, been teaching this in P. Chem this since the 80's. Never seen the Wiz, will have to rent it now.
Terrible movie, you couldn't pay me to watch it. It was just cool how they worked Snow's description of the laws into that song.
VaultingChemist
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Quote:

Second - Entropy. Things move in direction of disorder... not order.

I think this would apply to my point that predictable nature of the movement would become less predictable.
Interesting debates on how life appears to violate the second law.

P-Chem was definitely a course that weeded out a lot of students. However, thermodynamics was a breeze after taking P-Chem.
OneProudAg
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This old AgEcon "C" student has a headache now.
cbr
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I used to read science mags/cites. At least once a week for 10 years some grant based fraud claimed to have found the secret to double the efficiency and halve the cost of solar cells and batteries, all 6 month out from market. I stopped reading after a decade of that bull*****
Ag with kids
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DallasAg 94 said:

GenericAggie said:

One of the 3 laws of thermodynamics is being broken here. I can't remember which - age issue.
There are only 3.

Again... another swipe at that...

First - Conservation of Energy. An object in motion stays in motion until an equal or greater force.

This Law would state that if you captured the energy from the atom's motion, the atom would lose momentum and thus begin to move less. It would also affirm my position above that the atom would just move away from your capturing device.

Second - Entropy. Things move in direction of disorder... not order.
I think this would apply to my point that predictable nature of the movement would become less predictable.
Why does everyone hate on the ZEROTH Law of Thermo?
ballchain
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