MouthBQ98 said:

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I'm pro voluntary vaccination as elective self protection. I think people need to be shown statistically valid data on risks and rewards for the current vaccines and circulating variants and make their choices.

People should also lose weight, spend time outside, eat better, and get adequate amounts of vitamins in their diets if they are truly concerned about disease risks. A mask on an obese person after 2 years of this is eye roll inducing, frankly.

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Eliminating control groups of unvaccinated or classifying every death within 7 days of the vaccine as unvaccinated is part of the effort to eliminate that data.

HarryJ33tamu said:

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Salute The Marines said:

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Kinda weird to judge a vaccine by infections when it wasn't designed to prevent infection.

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Sorry your "vaccine" lost dude. I'm even more sorry that you injected your kids with that crap.

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Actually trump's vaccine.... you know they guy >95% on this board voted for and would vote for again (even if you disagree withe him on the most important issue of this decade and likely a generation) and he proudly advocates for it.

zwhag2010 said:

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Rapier108 said:

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It is obvious now that the shots are at best completely ineffective, and at worst, making people more susceptible to infection.

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Completely ineffective implies 100%. I agree the vaccine (which was based on the much less infectious version) is less effective than one of the most infectious diseases of all time. But not completely ineffective. Has everyone that got the vaccine gotten covid (tested positive)? The answer is no.

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Has everyone who hasn't got the vaccine gotten covid?


Slowly raises hand.

Valtrex11 said:

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AggiePops said:

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Quote:

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you missed my point humans survived all of that

I think the US service members get shots because the US Armed forces are run by woke idiots

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You missed your own point. Yeah, humans didn't go extinct and there are still a lot of us running around, but many millions died before advances in medicine, including vaccines, figured out how to prevent a lot of those deaths.. And the armed forces were being vaccinated long before 'woke' was a thing. Again, do a simple thing and google historical war time deaths by disease vs combat. I think the military leaders prefer to go to battle with living, healthy soldiers.

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yes vaccines have not played major role in any of that. LIke I said improved sanitation modern plumbing, clean water and advancement in medical treatments are far bigger advances than mUUUUH vaccine.

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But what about leeches and boring holes in people's heads?

zwhag2010 said:

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HarryJ33tamu said:

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Salute The Marines said:

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Kinda weird to judge a vaccine by infections when it wasn't designed to prevent infection.

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Sorry your "vaccine" lost dude. I'm even more sorry that you injected your kids with that crap.

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Actually trump's vaccine.... you know they guy >95% on this board voted for and would vote for again (even if you disagree withe him on the most important issue of this decade and likely a generation) and he proudly advocates for it.

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There is nothing wrong with advocating for taking the vaccine. There is something wrong with mandates, passports, vax shaming, and lying to the public about what the vaccine does and does not do.

zwhag2010 said:

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HarryJ33tamu said:

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Salute The Marines said:

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Kinda weird to judge a vaccine by infections when it wasn't designed to prevent infection.

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Sorry your "vaccine" lost dude. I'm even more sorry that you injected your kids with that crap.

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Actually trump's vaccine.... you know they guy >95% on this board voted for and would vote for again (even if you disagree withe him on the most important issue of this decade and likely a generation) and he proudly advocates for it.

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Covid is not an important issue. It is not now, and really never was that deadly.

Its only important because it was used as an excuse to ruin the economy, and steal the election.

Trump trying to help by cutting medical red tape is something we like about him. Right to try was something many loved about him. Some of us happen to disagree on if its good or not, but we agree with him that it shouldn't be mandated.

HTH

cone said:

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well the mRNA tech does perform in a similar way to vaccines as we understood them in 2019

just in a really cool high tech pinpointed (and limited) sort of way

that the mechanism worked and was well-tolerated by millions (billions?) is a massive breakthrough

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For now, yes. In the future? It's still to be determined.

Shoving silicon packs inside boobs was a pretty innovative thing at one time too.

Quote:

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Rapier108 said:

It is obvious now that the shots are at best completely ineffective, and at worst, making people more susceptible to infection.

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Must be a joke post, because even folks who are convinced the vaccines aren't doing as initially advocated aren't dumb enough to actually believe the included quote.

Valtrex11, I just looked up the history of vaccinations in the U.S. military. Vaccinations didn't play a part? You might be interested to know that the obviously 'woke' General George Washington required his troops to be inoculated against Smallpox after the Continental Army retreated from Quebec. Primarily because half the Army came down with Smallpox and they lost combat effectiveness. I wrote 'inoculated' instead of 'vaccinated' because the actual vaccine didn't come out until 1796. The best they could do at the time was to expose soldiers to a mild version of the disease so they'd get it and recover (hopefully) easily. And after seeing that I remembered reading that 55-60 years ago as a kid in school. Herd immunity! But the vaccine, once it was available, worked better.

And yes, you're absolutely right that better sanitary conditions absolutely helped cut down tremendously on non-combatants deaths. But new and improved medical developments played a huge part as well. Any leader who doesn't use every tool in the tool box to protect those he leads… shouldn't be a leader.

Tony Franklins Other Shoe said:

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zwhag2010 said:

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Rapier108 said:

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It is obvious now that the shots are at best completely ineffective, and at worst, making people more susceptible to infection.

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Completely ineffective implies 100%. I agree the vaccine (which was based on the much less infectious version) is less effective than one of the most infectious diseases of all time. But not completely ineffective. Has everyone that got the vaccine gotten covid (tested positive)? The answer is no.

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Has everyone who hasn't got the vaccine gotten covid?


Slowly raises hand.

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Not me, and I'm sitting in my car with my COVID positive stepson. Oh, the huge manatee.

BigRobSA said:

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Tony Franklins Other Shoe said:

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zwhag2010 said:

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Rapier108 said:

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It is obvious now that the shots are at best completely ineffective, and at worst, making people more susceptible to infection.

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Completely ineffective implies 100%. I agree the vaccine (which was based on the much less infectious version) is less effective than one of the most infectious diseases of all time. But not completely ineffective. Has everyone that got the vaccine gotten covid (tested positive)? The answer is no.

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Has everyone who hasn't got the vaccine gotten covid?


Slowly raises hand.

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Not me, and I'm sitting in my car with my COVID positive stepson. Oh, the huge manatee.

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Was your trunk full?

FriscoKid said:

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BigRobSA said:

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Tony Franklins Other Shoe said:

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zwhag2010 said:

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Rapier108 said:

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It is obvious now that the shots are at best completely ineffective, and at worst, making people more susceptible to infection.

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Completely ineffective implies 100%. I agree the vaccine (which was based on the much less infectious version) is less effective than one of the most infectious diseases of all time. But not completely ineffective. Has everyone that got the vaccine gotten covid (tested positive)? The answer is no.

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Has everyone who hasn't got the vaccine gotten covid?


Slowly raises hand.

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Not me, and I'm sitting in my car with my COVID positive stepson. Oh, the huge manatee.

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Was your trunk full?

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Actually yes. My work tools.

87IE said:

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Fully vaccinated people no longer need to wear a face mask or stay 6 feet away from others in most settings, whether outdoors or indoors, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention said in updated public health guidance released Thursday.

There are a handful of instances where people will still need to wear masks in a health-care setting or at a business that requires them even if they've had their final vaccine dose two or more weeks ago, CDC Director Dr. Rochelle Walensky told reporters at a press briefing. Fully vaccinated people will also still need to wear masks on airplanes, buses, trains and other public transportation, she said.

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Notice the statement said final and not second. Tell me this wasn't foreknown.

Salute The Marines said:

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Kinda weird to judge a vaccine by infections when it wasn't designed to prevent infection.

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Wondering if you are ever going to come back and discuss this:

https://edition.cnn.com/world/live-news/coronavirus-pandemic-vaccine-updates-12-15-20/h_74244d15e5a16fc7be6ce2825b02f581

Quote:

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"There were approximately 2/3 fewer swabs that were positive in the vaccine group as compared to the placebo group at the pre-dose 2 timepoint, suggesting that some asymptomatic infections start to be prevented after the first dose," Moderna wrote.

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Quote:

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Now Moderna says it has also shown its vaccine can prevent asymptomatic as well as symptomatic infection.

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https://www.businessinsider.com/chart-how-well-moderna-vaccine-prevents-covid-19-infections-2020-12

Quote:

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The US Food and Drug Administration on Tuesday released safety and efficacy data about Moderna's coronavirus vaccine, which shows the vaccine works very well at preventing COVID-19 infections

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Quote:

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But the FDA's assessment of Moderna's shot which is likely to become the country's second authorized coronavirus vaccine was not quite as glowing as it was for Pfizer's, even though the vaccine is nearly identical when it comes to preventing infections, at 94%

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Quote:

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Moderna's vaccine, like Pfizer's, seemed to start giving people protection from infection roughly 14 days after their first shot

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STM response? Of can we now have him removed every time he tries to gaslight.

It's been interesting watching the Party rhetoric fall apart.

• Rhetoric: This is nothing. Come on down to Chinatown! (Trump presidency)
• Rhetoric: Six-foot social distancing. Reality: No one enforces it now as it is complete BS.
• Rhetoric: Masks don't work
• Rhetoric: Mask mandate (unless you are rioting). Reality: It is now admitted they don't work and we need to wear N95s.
• Rhetoric: Wear a mask from the restaurant entrance until you are seated at your table. Reality: F'ing stupid.
• Rhetoric: Three-weeks to flatten the curve. Reality: Well...
• Rhetoric: Hospitals will be overrun with COVID patients. Reality: Hospitals not overrun, patients misclassified. Two hospital ships and several temporary hospitals erected by the Army Corps of Engineers that never saw a patient.
• Rhetoric: COVID very deadly. Reality: .0085 IFR. Cause of deaths missclassifed
• Rhetoric: There's a shortage of ventillators! Reality: Hasty mass production of ventilators that were never used (I think they were destroyed to get them off the market).
• Rhetoric: Children and young people are high risk. Reality: Children and young people are low risk.
• Rhetoric: COVID did not originate from a lab in China. Reality: Doh!
• Rhetoric: The vaxx is safe and effective. Reality: A host of serious side-effects have emerged.
• Rhetoric: Ivermectin is horse dewormer and is ineffective and dangerous. Reality: Ivermectin has proven to be very safe and effective. Pfizermectin.
• Rhetoric: The vaxx will protect you from infection. Well, there may be some breakthrough cases. You need a booster. You need another booster. You need another booster. You need another booster... Reality: the vaxx may reduce symptoms and save the lives of those with comorbidities, but it is ineffective for transmission.
• Rhetoric: The unvaxxed are causing the spread. Reality: Everyone can spread it.
• Rhetoric: There will not be vaccine passports. Reality: Looking as though there will be...

FriscoKid said:

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BigRobSA said:

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Tony Franklins Other Shoe said:

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zwhag2010 said:

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Rapier108 said:

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It is obvious now that the shots are at best completely ineffective, and at worst, making people more susceptible to infection.

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Completely ineffective implies 100%. I agree the vaccine (which was based on the much less infectious version) is less effective than one of the most infectious diseases of all time. But not completely ineffective. Has everyone that got the vaccine gotten covid (tested positive)? The answer is no.

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Has everyone who hasn't got the vaccine gotten covid?


Slowly raises hand.

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Not me, and I'm sitting in my car with my COVID positive stepson. Oh, the huge manatee.

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Was your trunk full?

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I got it

The medical folks don't do anyone any favors when they delve too heavily into speculation and projection. Don't forget, we're barely two years into this bug and still much less than two in a lot of people taking it seriously. Medical science is a learn as you go proposition. Otherwise all the new wonder drugs would have been out long ago and they wouldn't be occasionally going 'Whoops! There's another side effect we need to watch out for.' Point being, thinking they should have known and reported all variables as to COVID long ago with perfect agreement and consistency is a non-starter considering they didn't know all the variables at the time, and new ones are still turning up. Perfect answers aren't going to happen anytime soon, if ever, and anyone who says otherwise is pulling your leg.

Besides, since when are you going to get total agreement and buy-in from any bunch of scientists of any persuasion? Put the exact same data in front of 10 of them and while you might get general agreement from the majority, some of them will develop their own, varying opinions.

Salute The Marines said:

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FriscoKid said:

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Salute The Marines said:

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Kinda weird to judge a vaccine by infections when it wasn't designed to prevent infection.

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Quote:

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Only five of the Covid cases were in people given the vaccine, 90 were in those given the dummy treatment. The company says the vaccine is protecting 94.5% of people.
The data also shows there were 11 cases of severe Covid in the trial, but none happened in people who were immunised.
"The overall effectiveness has been remarkable... it's a great day," Tal Zaks, the chief medical officer at Moderna, told BBC News.
Dr Stephen Hoge, the company's president, said he "grinned ear to ear for a minute" when the results came in.
He told BBC News: "I don't think any of us really hoped that the vaccine would be 94% effective at preventing Covid-19 disease, that was really a stunning realisation."

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https://www.bbc.com/news/health-54902908

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Your quote only proves my point. Thanks for sharing. Disease =/= infection.

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You really should read the article.

A is A said:

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Salute The Marines said:

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FriscoKid said:

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Salute The Marines said:

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Kinda weird to judge a vaccine by infections when it wasn't designed to prevent infection.

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Quote:

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Only five of the Covid cases were in people given the vaccine, 90 were in those given the dummy treatment. The company says the vaccine is protecting 94.5% of people.
The data also shows there were 11 cases of severe Covid in the trial, but none happened in people who were immunised.
"The overall effectiveness has been remarkable... it's a great day," Tal Zaks, the chief medical officer at Moderna, told BBC News.
Dr Stephen Hoge, the company's president, said he "grinned ear to ear for a minute" when the results came in.
He told BBC News: "I don't think any of us really hoped that the vaccine would be 94% effective at preventing Covid-19 disease, that was really a stunning realisation."

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https://www.bbc.com/news/health-54902908

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Your quote only proves my point. Thanks for sharing. Disease =/= infection.

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https://edition.cnn.com/world/live-news/coronavirus-pandemic-vaccine-updates-12-15-20/h_74244d15e5a16fc7be6ce2825b02f581

Quote:

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Vaccine maker Moderna says its coronavirus shots don't just prevent symptomatic disease, but can prevent infection in the first place.

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Article from 12-15-2020

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I guess Moderna should ask posters on here what their shots purpose was and what it's expectations were.

cone said:

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well the mRNA tech does perform in a similar way to vaccines as we understood them in 2019

just in a really cool high tech pinpointed (and limited) sort of way

that the mechanism worked and was well-tolerated by millions (billions?) is a massive breakthrough

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Last academic article I read on mRNA said the scientific community was still trying to find a consistently viable delivery system for the vaccine. They were hoping the latest lipid based delivery system would be the key to greater efficacy. I guess we'll know in the long-term how well it's tolerated. Call me cynical, but I expect the "if you took the (company name here) COVID-19 vaccine between 2020 and 2022, you may be entitled to financial compensation for..." commercials to pop up in the next 5 to 10 years. Only time will tell.

YouBet said:

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cone said:

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flu shots are vaccines

vaccine has a very specific definition and mechanism for action

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The problem is that the powers that be have changed the definition of a vaccine to align with COVID vaccine outcomes.

Kind of a red flag.

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Or a white flag of surrender.

BobaFettsClone said:

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cone said:

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well the mRNA tech does perform in a similar way to vaccines as we understood them in 2019

just in a really cool high tech pinpointed (and limited) sort of way

that the mechanism worked and was well-tolerated by millions (billions?) is a massive breakthrough

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Last academic article I read on mRNA said the scientific community was still trying to find a consistently viable delivery system for the vaccine. They were hoping the latest lipid based delivery system would be the key to greater efficacy. I guess we'll know in the long-term how well it's tolerated. Call me cynical, but I expect the "if you took the (company name here) COVID-19 vaccine between 2020 and 2022, you may be entitled to financial compensation for..." commercials to pop up in the next 5 to 10 years. Only time will tell.

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Could be less than that.

zwhag2010 said:

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HarryJ33tamu said:

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Salute The Marines said:

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Kinda weird to judge a vaccine by infections when it wasn't designed to prevent infection.

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Sorry your "vaccine" lost dude. I'm even more sorry that you injected your kids with that crap.

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Actually trump's vaccine.... you know they guy >95% on this board voted for and would vote for again (even if you disagree withe him on the most important issue of this decade and likely a generation) and he proudly advocates for it.

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I could be wrong but there seems to be a difference between advocate and mandate. Someone help, correct me if I am wrong.

Dad-O-Lot said:

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Salute The Marines said:

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Kinda weird to judge a vaccine by infections when it wasn't designed to prevent infection.

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....

When the first few people were being identified as catching covid after both shots, we were told, "Oh, there will always be a few 'breakthrough' cases, no vaccine is 100% effective at preventing infection."

...

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If vaccines were not supposed to stop infection, why are they even called 'breakthrough' cases? What did the virus break through? You could call them breakthrough hospitalizations if that is what they were designed to prevent, but the idea of a 'breakthrough' infection makes no sense.

richardag said:

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zwhag2010 said:

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HarryJ33tamu said:

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Salute The Marines said:

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Kinda weird to judge a vaccine by infections when it wasn't designed to prevent infection.

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Sorry your "vaccine" lost dude. I'm even more sorry that you injected your kids with that crap.

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Actually trump's vaccine.... you know they guy >95% on this board voted for and would vote for again (even if you disagree withe him on the most important issue of this decade and likely a generation) and he proudly advocates for it.

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I could be wrong but there seems to be a difference between advocate and mandate. Someone help, correct me if I am wrong.

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In a world where words matter...

Advocacy promotes agreement.
Mandates promote compliance (the act of conforming, acquiescing, or yielding).

I used compliance in this case because most of the articles use this word when discussing the success of mandates.