The problem is I think he hit his mark.

He feels very strongly that white people continue to oppress blacks with everything we do (education, e.g.) and we're not tuned into it at all. That's why we need to hire (and involve ourselves with) token black people to inform us of how ingrained our bias is. He makes that point several times in that one speech, although he does say they shouldn't be 'tokens' but then goes on to describe hiring black people so that they have blacks on their staff (this is the doublespeak I referred to earlier). I don't think I'm taking one thing out of context.

This stuff isn't coming from just this one pastor. Way too many churches are buying into this major distraction from the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

And I also agree with you that this focus and pursuit is insulting, no matter your skin color.

LeeA****er53 said:

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TheEternalPessimist said:

---

BigBrother said:

---

bigcat22 said:

---

Below is the Chandler sermon everyone loves to hate on him for. It's only 30 minutes or so and after listening I think the whole "Anglo 8 vs Black 7" is taken waaay outta context.

---

Never heard of this guy before this video. Wow. Just awful. Charlatan.

---

The MLK50 thing was where I said 'enough' as I had tried to 'understand' Chandler and his followers and close friends pushing this SJW nonsense.

Chandler essentially endorsed the sin of partiality on the basis of race. This is unbiblical and is racist.

Chandler has also propagated and peddled the teachings, writings, sermon, and/or books by people like Eric Mason, Thabiti Anyabwile (birth name Ron Burns), Ta'Nahesi Coates, Beth Moore, Russell Moore, David Platt, and Dwight McKissic.

Chandler family has close ties to A&M and has for decades. So no surprise the visceral reaction from infrequent/first-time posters.

---

Oh boy, known heretics like Russell Moore, David Platt, and Beth Moore. Ha. I've got a feeling they suddenly became heretics to you guys when they publicly opposed Trump, the messiah to many people on this board.

---

You couldn't be more wrong about me. I left a Beth Moore Bible study 8 years ago because I recognized her heresy after the first lesson. And David Platt has destroyed MBC with his CRT crap. Trump isn't my messiah, Jesus Christ is. And I don't care if people like you get upset over false teaching being called out. If you're a Christian, it's your obligation to do so as well.

Now, what did you think about the documentary? Where do you think the source of these false teachings lies? Do you think the seminaries are a problem? What did you think about the situation at First Baptist Naples? Do you see any similarities with them and MBC?

I had not been following David Platt since reading Radical 10 years ago. Was not aware he was at MBC or the CRT politics there. Yikes. Looks like the suit against the church survived a motion to dismiss last week.

https://religionnews.com/2021/07/20/david-platt-mclean-bible-lawsuit-crt-woke-liberal-radical-votes-lawsuit/

https://www.christianitytoday.com/news/2021/july/david-platt-mclean-bible-church-elder-race-politics-critics.html

https://capstonereport.com/2021/12/04/david-platt-mclean-bible-church-lose-first-round-in-court-case/37312/amp/

it is sad to see godless ideology wreak so much havoc in once good churches. Inviting any sort of infighting or division into the congregation based on immutable differences is exactly contrary to Biblical teaching of being united as one body to Christ.

AgBQ-00 said:

---

it is sad to see godless ideology wreak so much havoc in once good churches. Inviting any sort of infighting or division into the congregation based on immutable differences is exactly contrary to Biblical teaching of being united as one body to Christ.

---

Its godless ideology to challenge long held beliefs (be they good or bad)? What is a "once good church"? Churches remain one of the most segregated organizations - this was still blatantly so when I was a child in the 1980's and 1990's. My dad was a Gideon and the one usually giving the Sunday morning presentations at various churches in the areas. Add in that I went to SBC church, grandparents were Pentecostal (they helped start the First Assembly of God in Hearne) and my best friend was Catholic - I got to see quite the variety of ways to worship on Sunday mornings.

Point being, all these churches and ways to worship were born out of congregations developing different beliefs in the "proper" way to worship God. And it is true that churches going way back in time had racially abhorrent practices and restrictions. Hell, there are still churches that prevent women from serving in leading roles. Are those churches that allow women to be a minister a signal of "immutable differences" and that in order to be "one body to Christ" we must prohibit women from being a leader - as was the practice in "once good churches".

Matt may ultimately be wrong in his approach on racism and his discussions on the subject. I am not sure anything he has said leads to the level of him being some Jim Jones making people drink CRT kool-aid.

Not directed at you, but there are a whole lot of violations about those being without sin and casting stones and such. Division in churches is explicitly driven by refusal to listen, change, adapt or to think for ones self. The homogeny many people seek / demand on this thread appears to be more cult-like than Christian.

fka ftc said:

---

AgBQ-00 said:

---

it is sad to see godless ideology wreak so much havoc in once good churches. Inviting any sort of infighting or division into the congregation based on immutable differences is exactly contrary to Biblical teaching of being united as one body to Christ.

---

Its godless ideology to challenge long held beliefs (be they good or bad)? What is a "once good church"? Churches remain one of the most segregated organizations - this was still blatantly so when I was a child in the 1980's and 1990's. My dad was a Gideon and the one usually giving the Sunday morning presentations at various churches in the areas. Add in that I went to SBC church, grandparents were Pentecostal (they helped start the First Assembly of God in Hearne) and my best friend was Catholic - I got to see quite the variety of ways to worship on Sunday mornings.

Point being, all these churches and ways to worship were born out of congregations developing different beliefs in the "proper" way to worship God. And it is true that churches going way back in time had racially abhorrent practices and restrictions. Hell, there are still churches that prevent women from serving in leading roles. Are those churches that allow women to be a minister a signal of "immutable differences" and that in order to be "one body to Christ" we must prohibit women from being a leader - as was the practice in "once good churches".

Matt may ultimately be wrong in his approach on racism and his discussions on the subject. I am not sure anything he has said leads to the level of him being some Jim Jones making people drink CRT kool-aid.

Not directed at you, but there are a whole lot of violations about those being without sin and casting stones and such. Division in churches is explicitly driven by refusal to listen, change, adapt or to think for ones self. The homogeny many people seek / demand on this thread appears to be more cult-like than Christian.

---

It is a godless ideology because it is Marxist/Communist infiltration looking to destroy any vestiges of the worship of God.

CRT and all of its tentacles come from the evil that is post-modernist humanism and the desire to replace God's grace and mercy with governmental judgement and man's ideas on how to live life. You cannot reconcile adherence to CRT teaching with the salvation provided through the Gospel. Look at the time and energy it is taking away from doing work reaching people with actual Biblical teaching. The most Christian stance is to approach everyone as an individual with the understanding that we are all in need of salvation and the color of your skin means nothing.

I mean this in the nicest way possible but this entire post tells me that you aren't familiar with the issues that the documentary is exploring. This isn't casting stones or hoping for segregated churches. It's just not about that at all.

fka ftc said:

---

AgBQ-00 said:

---

it is sad to see godless ideology wreak so much havoc in once good churches. Inviting any sort of infighting or division into the congregation based on immutable differences is exactly contrary to Biblical teaching of being united as one body to Christ.

---

Its godless ideology to challenge long held beliefs (be they good or bad)? What is a "once good church"? Churches remain one of the most segregated organizations - this was still blatantly so when I was a child in the 1980's and 1990's. My dad was a Gideon and the one usually giving the Sunday morning presentations at various churches in the areas. Add in that I went to SBC church, grandparents were Pentecostal (they helped start the First Assembly of God in Hearne) and my best friend was Catholic - I got to see quite the variety of ways to worship on Sunday mornings.

Point being, all these churches and ways to worship were born out of congregations developing different beliefs in the "proper" way to worship God. And it is true that churches going way back in time had racially abhorrent practices and restrictions. Hell, there are still churches that prevent women from serving in leading roles. Are those churches that allow women to be a minister a signal of "immutable differences" and that in order to be "one body to Christ" we must prohibit women from being a leader - as was the practice in "once good churches".

Matt may ultimately be wrong in his approach on racism and his discussions on the subject. I am not sure anything he has said leads to the level of him being some Jim Jones making people drink CRT kool-aid.

Not directed at you, but there are a whole lot of violations about those being without sin and casting stones and such. Division in churches is explicitly driven by refusal to listen, change, adapt or to think for ones self. The homogeny many people seek / demand on this thread appears to be more cult-like than Christian.

---

Interesting take. The church should listen, change, and adapt to the times? And ordain women? Are you in Matt's church? What's your denomination?

AGC said:

---

Interesting take. The church should listen, change, and adapt to the times? And ordain women? Are you in Matt's church? What's your denomination?

---

By "denomination", are you speaking strictly of the further division of the body of Christ based on a preferred set of ideologies and beliefs?

I do not belong to church nor have I attended a church service in over 12 years. One ideal I do not share with churches is hypocrisy. So I go my own way.

If you're looking for a church without hypocrites, you've got a long wait for a train don't come.

The old judgmental "I don't cotton to no hypocrite" hypocrite. Nice to see they are still deluding themselves.


ETA: See the statement above about ALL of us are in need of mercy and grace. ALL of us fall short. Staying away from church because there are hypocrites/sinners is like saying I'm not going to breathe because there is CO2 in the air.

fka ftc said:

---

AGC said:

---

Interesting take. The church should listen, change, and adapt to the times? And ordain women? Are you in Matt's church? What's your denomination?

---

By "denomination", are you speaking strictly of the further division of the body of Christ based on a preferred set of ideologies and beliefs?

I do not belong to church nor have I attended a church service in over 12 years. One ideal I do not share with churches is hypocrisy. So I go my own way.

---

Your specifically implied beliefs fit very well inside several denominations. Unfortunately they are shrinking mainlines. These ideas have not thus far shown to be truly profitable to the church.

Conflict has existed inside the church since the beginning even between disciples. How we handle it is what matters. CRT is not the only available method or way to teach unity and racism. The middle ground is to leave it behind.

redcrayon said:

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LeeA****er53 said:

---

TheEternalPessimist said:

---

BigBrother said:

---

bigcat22 said:

---

Below is the Chandler sermon everyone loves to hate on him for. It's only 30 minutes or so and after listening I think the whole "Anglo 8 vs Black 7" is taken waaay outta context.

---

Never heard of this guy before this video. Wow. Just awful. Charlatan.

---

The MLK50 thing was where I said 'enough' as I had tried to 'understand' Chandler and his followers and close friends pushing this SJW nonsense.

Chandler essentially endorsed the sin of partiality on the basis of race. This is unbiblical and is racist.

Chandler has also propagated and peddled the teachings, writings, sermon, and/or books by people like Eric Mason, Thabiti Anyabwile (birth name Ron Burns), Ta'Nahesi Coates, Beth Moore, Russell Moore, David Platt, and Dwight McKissic.

Chandler family has close ties to A&M and has for decades. So no surprise the visceral reaction from infrequent/first-time posters.

---

Oh boy, known heretics like Russell Moore, David Platt, and Beth Moore. Ha. I've got a feeling they suddenly became heretics to you guys when they publicly opposed Trump, the messiah to many people on this board.

---

You couldn't be more wrong about me. I left a Beth Moore Bible study 8 years ago because I recognized her heresy after the first lesson. And David Platt has destroyed MBC with his CRT crap. Trump isn't my messiah, Jesus Christ is. And I don't care if people like you get upset over false teaching being called out. If you're a Christian, it's your obligation to do so as well.

Now, what did you think about the documentary? Where do you think the source of these false teachings lies? Do you think the seminaries are a problem? What did you think about the situation at First Baptist Naples? Do you see any similarities with them and MBC?

---

False teaching is different than reputable theologically-conservative pastors seeing social justice as a priority to Jesus. The documentary has serious Loose Change vibes. I can just as easily say that the doc makers are the false prophets, parroting talking points of a small subculture of one political party.

AGC said:

---

fka ftc said:

---

AGC said:

---

Interesting take. The church should listen, change, and adapt to the times? And ordain women? Are you in Matt's church? What's your denomination?

---

By "denomination", are you speaking strictly of the further division of the body of Christ based on a preferred set of ideologies and beliefs?

I do not belong to church nor have I attended a church service in over 12 years. One ideal I do not share with churches is hypocrisy. So I go my own way.

---

Your specifically implied beliefs fit very well inside several denominations. Unfortunately they are shrinking mainlines. These ideas have not thus far shown to be truly profitable to the church.

Conflict has existed inside the church since the beginning even between disciples. How we handle it is what matters. CRT is not the only available method or way to teach unity and racism. The middle ground is to leave it behind.

---

Specifically implied... would it then not be explicit? Phrase no sense to me at all. The only belief I explicitly mentioned regarding church was the tendency (great) to hypocrisy.

I also gave examples of irony and hypocrisy of those who spout the ideals of a homogenous church or religion. Regarding religion, I believe in different strokes for different folks. I fully expect to see Muslim and Jews walking the Pearly Gates right along my side.

I pointed out the very word denomination means differences or a subset of the whole. I do not advocate one denomination over another, to do so would imply I have some innate sense or ability to determine one's individual relationship with God. I possess no ability.

I do not condone, support or give any credo to CRT and BLM philosophies. I do not support Marxism nor Socialism - I have in fact been a quite successful capitalist. But if someone wants to share their differing view without first kicking me in the teeth and judging me a non-Christian heathen, then maybe I do not want to listen to that person as their mind is settle, ears are deaf and they are blinded by their own self importance.

fka ftc said:

---

AGC said:

---

fka ftc said:

---

AGC said:

---

Interesting take. The church should listen, change, and adapt to the times? And ordain women? Are you in Matt's church? What's your denomination?

---

By "denomination", are you speaking strictly of the further division of the body of Christ based on a preferred set of ideologies and beliefs?

I do not belong to church nor have I attended a church service in over 12 years. One ideal I do not share with churches is hypocrisy. So I go my own way.

---

Your specifically implied beliefs fit very well inside several denominations. Unfortunately they are shrinking mainlines. These ideas have not thus far shown to be truly profitable to the church.

Conflict has existed inside the church since the beginning even between disciples. How we handle it is what matters. CRT is not the only available method or way to teach unity and racism. The middle ground is to leave it behind.

---

Specifically implied... would it then not be explicit? Phrase no sense to me at all. The only belief I explicitly mentioned regarding church was the tendency (great) to hypocrisy.

I also gave examples of irony and hypocrisy of those who spout the ideals of a homogenous church or religion. Regarding religion, I believe in different strokes for different folks. I fully expect to see Muslim and Jews walking the Pearly Gates right along my side.

I pointed out the very word denomination means differences or a subset of the whole. I do not advocate one denomination over another, to do so would imply I have some innate sense or ability to determine one's individual relationship with God. I possess no ability.

I do not condone, support or give any credo to CRT and BLM philosophies. I do not support Marxism nor Socialism - I have in fact been a quite successful capitalist. But if someone wants to share their differing view without first kicking me in the teeth and judging me a non-Christian heathen, then maybe I do not want to listen to that person as their mind is settle, ears are deaf and they are blinded by their own self importance.

---

I'm a little lost as to what you actually believe. Doesn't make sense to me to defend Chandler if you're not actually part of his church (or any church for that matter), especially if he's a hypocrite (along with all the other names).

You seem to stand for nothing other than not being judged and believe it to be virtue. Not sure it follows.

LeeA****er53 said:

---

redcrayon said:

---

LeeA****er53 said:

---

TheEternalPessimist said:

---

BigBrother said:

---

bigcat22 said:

---

Below is the Chandler sermon everyone loves to hate on him for. It's only 30 minutes or so and after listening I think the whole "Anglo 8 vs Black 7" is taken waaay outta context.

---

Never heard of this guy before this video. Wow. Just awful. Charlatan.

---

The MLK50 thing was where I said 'enough' as I had tried to 'understand' Chandler and his followers and close friends pushing this SJW nonsense.

Chandler essentially endorsed the sin of partiality on the basis of race. This is unbiblical and is racist.

Chandler has also propagated and peddled the teachings, writings, sermon, and/or books by people like Eric Mason, Thabiti Anyabwile (birth name Ron Burns), Ta'Nahesi Coates, Beth Moore, Russell Moore, David Platt, and Dwight McKissic.

Chandler family has close ties to A&M and has for decades. So no surprise the visceral reaction from infrequent/first-time posters.

---

Oh boy, known heretics like Russell Moore, David Platt, and Beth Moore. Ha. I've got a feeling they suddenly became heretics to you guys when they publicly opposed Trump, the messiah to many people on this board.

---

You couldn't be more wrong about me. I left a Beth Moore Bible study 8 years ago because I recognized her heresy after the first lesson. And David Platt has destroyed MBC with his CRT crap. Trump isn't my messiah, Jesus Christ is. And I don't care if people like you get upset over false teaching being called out. If you're a Christian, it's your obligation to do so as well.

Now, what did you think about the documentary? Where do you think the source of these false teachings lies? Do you think the seminaries are a problem? What did you think about the situation at First Baptist Naples? Do you see any similarities with them and MBC?

---

False teaching is different than reputable theologically-conservative pastors seeing social justice as a priority to Jesus. The documentary has serious Loose Change vibes. I can just as easily say that the doc makers are the false prophets, parroting talking points of a small subculture of one political party.

---

So you watched it? Let's discuss specifics.

AGC said:

---

I'm a little lost as to what you actually believe. Doesn't make sense to me to defend Chandler if you're not actually part of his church (or any church for that matter), especially if he's a hypocrite (along with all the other names).

You seem to stand for nothing other than not being judged and believe it to be virtue. Not sure it follows.

---

Sorry its been hard for you to follow and comprehend. I recalled my experience with Matt Chandler 25-30 years ago when he was just starting out as an adult, as a youth minister at two very small churches - and that I saw nothing to indicate at the time his love for God and the Bible were anything other than that.

I do not need to list things I believe in, stand for or agree with, particularly in the pass judgment crowd that exists in this thread. I do not subscribe to another mortal man judging me on how I believe and worship God. Seem to recall a couple places in the Bible where it is cautioned to not judge others.

Other posts have named MLK and others as "not a Christian" based on their purported sins. Do not recall any verse on looking back at a man's behaviors 60 years ago and deny his Christianity based on things people heard from others and never witnessed.

I am not defending MLKs behavior, I find it shameful and hope he made peace before being assassinated, but we certainly have no right or authority to call others Christian or not Christian.

fka ftc said:

---

AGC said:

---

I'm a little lost as to what you actually believe. Doesn't make sense to me to defend Chandler if you're not actually part of his church (or any church for that matter), especially if he's a hypocrite (along with all the other names).

You seem to stand for nothing other than not being judged and believe it to be virtue. Not sure it follows.

---

Sorry its been hard for you to follow and comprehend. I recalled my experience with Matt Chandler 25-30 years ago when he was just starting out as an adult, as a youth minister at two very small churches - and that I saw nothing to indicate at the time his love for God and the Bible were anything other than that.

I do not need to list things I believe in, stand for or agree with, particularly in the pass judgment crowd that exists in this thread. I do not subscribe to another mortal man judging me on how I believe and worship God. Seem to recall a couple places in the Bible where it is cautioned to not judge others.

Other posts have named MLK and others as "not a Christian" based on their purported sins. Do not recall any verse on looking back at a man's behaviors 60 years ago and deny his Christianity based on things people heard from others and never witnessed.

I am not defending MLKs behavior, I find it shameful and hope he made peace before being assassinated, but we certainly have no right or authority to call others Christian or not Christian.

---

That makes more sense. The chandler of old was a different one. I'm somewhat curious if he would preach the same things again or if he'd repent of some of it now.

The letters in the New Testament were written to correct doctrine and teaching and to specifically sort this type of thing out. I mean it's Christmas, it's heretic punching time for God's sake! We've had councils for thousands of years where we did decide who is and isn't Christian. This is not a new or bad thing, to discern what isn't and isn't Christian and whether certain leaders are or aren't.

AGC said:

---

fka ftc said:

---

AGC said:

---

I'm a little lost as to what you actually believe. Doesn't make sense to me to defend Chandler if you're not actually part of his church (or any church for that matter), especially if he's a hypocrite (along with all the other names).

You seem to stand for nothing other than not being judged and believe it to be virtue. Not sure it follows.

---

Sorry its been hard for you to follow and comprehend. I recalled my experience with Matt Chandler 25-30 years ago when he was just starting out as an adult, as a youth minister at two very small churches - and that I saw nothing to indicate at the time his love for God and the Bible were anything other than that.

I do not need to list things I believe in, stand for or agree with, particularly in the pass judgment crowd that exists in this thread. I do not subscribe to another mortal man judging me on how I believe and worship God. Seem to recall a couple places in the Bible where it is cautioned to not judge others.

Other posts have named MLK and others as "not a Christian" based on their purported sins. Do not recall any verse on looking back at a man's behaviors 60 years ago and deny his Christianity based on things people heard from others and never witnessed.

I am not defending MLKs behavior, I find it shameful and hope he made peace before being assassinated, but we certainly have no right or authority to call others Christian or not Christian.

---

That makes more sense. The chandler of old was a different one. I'm somewhat curious if he would preach the same things again or if he'd repent of some of it now.

The letters in the New Testament were written to correct doctrine and teaching and to specifically sort this type of thing out. I mean it's Christmas, it's heretic punching time for God's sake! We've had councils for thousands of years where we did decide who is and isn't Christian. This is not a new or bad thing, to discern what isn't and isn't Christian and whether certain leaders are or aren't.

---

Who are you to say that the "chandler of old was a different one" if "you're not actually part of his church"?

Ignoring care for the "least among us" is sac-religious and, frankly, part of the Reagan-obsessed Gospel of the modern "conservative" orthodoxy in the far-right Baptist church. This is exactly the problem with many people who lob criticisms at Matt Chandler and the like.

Let me guess, you and redcrayon are big Robert Jeffress fans?

LeeA****er53 said:

---

AGC said:

---

fka ftc said:

---

AGC said:

---

I'm a little lost as to what you actually believe. Doesn't make sense to me to defend Chandler if you're not actually part of his church (or any church for that matter), especially if he's a hypocrite (along with all the other names).

You seem to stand for nothing other than not being judged and believe it to be virtue. Not sure it follows.

---

Sorry its been hard for you to follow and comprehend. I recalled my experience with Matt Chandler 25-30 years ago when he was just starting out as an adult, as a youth minister at two very small churches - and that I saw nothing to indicate at the time his love for God and the Bible were anything other than that.

I do not need to list things I believe in, stand for or agree with, particularly in the pass judgment crowd that exists in this thread. I do not subscribe to another mortal man judging me on how I believe and worship God. Seem to recall a couple places in the Bible where it is cautioned to not judge others.

Other posts have named MLK and others as "not a Christian" based on their purported sins. Do not recall any verse on looking back at a man's behaviors 60 years ago and deny his Christianity based on things people heard from others and never witnessed.

I am not defending MLKs behavior, I find it shameful and hope he made peace before being assassinated, but we certainly have no right or authority to call others Christian or not Christian.

---

That makes more sense. The chandler of old was a different one. I'm somewhat curious if he would preach the same things again or if he'd repent of some of it now.

The letters in the New Testament were written to correct doctrine and teaching and to specifically sort this type of thing out. I mean it's Christmas, it's heretic punching time for God's sake! We've had councils for thousands of years where we did decide who is and isn't Christian. This is not a new or bad thing, to discern what isn't and isn't Christian and whether certain leaders are or aren't.

---

Who are you to say that the "chandler of old was a different one" if "you're not actually part of his church"?

Ignoring care for the "least among us" is sac-religious and, frankly, part of the Reagan-obsessed Gospel of the modern "conservative" orthodoxy in the far-right Baptist church. This is exactly the problem with many people who lob criticisms at Matt Chandler and the like.

Let me guess, you and redcrayon are big Robert Jeffress fans?

---

You realize the internet's been a thing for decades now right? Chandlers not some unknown quantity that just came onto the scene. Podcasts and media abound in this fantastical age of computers.

Whoever said he had an e-posse (paraphrasing of course) was right. You just bash those straw men, they probably deserve it.

You clearly missed that I was quoting your quoted post. You criticized someone for defending him despite not being a part of his church. Does the same not apply to you?

National Council of Churchs has been communist's controlled for over 50 yrs. The same with UNICEF.

LeeA****er53 said:

---

You clearly missed that I was quoting your quoted post. You criticized someone for defending him despite not being a part of his church. Does the same not apply to you?

---

Oh no, it was clear that you schiffed those together without bothering to read everything else around it. You didn't understand what I was saying and now you're throwing out straw men. The other poster added something to the discussion but you don't.

LeeA****er53 said:

---

AGC said:

---

fka ftc said:

---

AGC said:

---

I'm a little lost as to what you actually believe. Doesn't make sense to me to defend Chandler if you're not actually part of his church (or any church for that matter), especially if he's a hypocrite (along with all the other names).

You seem to stand for nothing other than not being judged and believe it to be virtue. Not sure it follows.

---

Sorry its been hard for you to follow and comprehend. I recalled my experience with Matt Chandler 25-30 years ago when he was just starting out as an adult, as a youth minister at two very small churches - and that I saw nothing to indicate at the time his love for God and the Bible were anything other than that.

I do not need to list things I believe in, stand for or agree with, particularly in the pass judgment crowd that exists in this thread. I do not subscribe to another mortal man judging me on how I believe and worship God. Seem to recall a couple places in the Bible where it is cautioned to not judge others.

Other posts have named MLK and others as "not a Christian" based on their purported sins. Do not recall any verse on looking back at a man's behaviors 60 years ago and deny his Christianity based on things people heard from others and never witnessed.

I am not defending MLKs behavior, I find it shameful and hope he made peace before being assassinated, but we certainly have no right or authority to call others Christian or not Christian.

---

That makes more sense. The chandler of old was a different one. I'm somewhat curious if he would preach the same things again or if he'd repent of some of it now.

The letters in the New Testament were written to correct doctrine and teaching and to specifically sort this type of thing out. I mean it's Christmas, it's heretic punching time for God's sake! We've had councils for thousands of years where we did decide who is and isn't Christian. This is not a new or bad thing, to discern what isn't and isn't Christian and whether certain leaders are or aren't.

---

Who are you to say that the "chandler of old was a different one" if "you're not actually part of his church"?

Ignoring care for the "least among us" is sac-religious and, frankly, part of the Reagan-obsessed Gospel of the modern "conservative" orthodoxy in the far-right Baptist church. This is exactly the problem with many people who lob criticisms at Matt Chandler and the like.

Let me guess, you and redcrayon are big Robert Jeffress fans?

---

Never heard of Jeffers and am not and have never been Baptist.

Can you talk about the subject of the documentary or are you just here to defend Chandler? Did watch any of the videos?

I wasn't the one who brought up MLK but the criticisms of him aren't for his personal behavior. He denied the Trinity, virgin birth, resurrection, etc.

Be blessed!

Ok RedCrayon, you want engagement with the videos. I watched the two free ones you originally posted, from beginning to end.

I do not feel compelled to watch the $13 video. Why? Mainly because (if it is done the same way as the two free videos) it is a story they are telling. I like documentaries that seek to find and understand the truth. After years of watching cable news, it is pretty easy to spot agendas - on both sides of the aisle. The "Enemies within the Church" videos are just like watching 60 Minutes or ESPN 30 for 30 Shorts. There is a narrative, and the documentary is a wonderfully orchestrated collection of clips, interviews, social media posts, and narration that ALL lead you down a path.

So I can't really engage you with the videos because they are so incredibly slanted. They tell one side of the story, and do so in a way to get you to come to a conclusion.

It would be like asking someone to evaluate a trial while only hearing from the prosecution. That would be silly.

Aggie related: It would be like splicing together all of Calzada's season highlights, handing them to a stranger, and asking them to tell you why he shouldn't be the starter next season.

Just be careful with how you are being lead down a long path by a tour guide who is near sighted.

Fair enough. But remember, the people being handed this documentary aren't strangers. We're Christians who have watched this unfold in churches.

Quote:

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Just be careful with how you are being lead down a long path by a tour guide who is near sighted.

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I'd say the same to believers who are following the pastors preaching CRT.

Watch some Voddie Bauchman videos on CRT and the church. Maybe you'll find him more compelling.

I think the reason why some won't watch the video is because it's hard to watch and have to admit that something is amiss. It's painful. I have many friends at MBC in McLean who are absolutely heartbroken about how their church has been torn apart by this.

Praying for the church.

The Cover Up Story Every Christian Should Know About - Voddie Baucham Explains What Really Happened - YouTube

Critical Race Theory Says Everything is Racist - Voddie Baucham at Flat Creek Baptist Church - YouTube

Even if you don't like this documentary, it's hard to deny what's happening. Maybe some would rather address the subject covered rather than the documentary itself.

So I haven't ventured over here to Politics in awhile, nor have I posted in even longer. But I think something needs to be said about tossing around the word "charlatan" in this context.

The truth is, if most of us were to meet a random selection of true believing Christians throughout history, we'd be shocked at some of the things we'd hear them say. And if Martin Luther, John Calvin, or even the apostle Paul were to meet you, he'd probably be shocked by some of the things you had to say.

Christians, true Christians who love Jesus just like most of us posting on this thread do, come from all ethnic, political, and cultural backgrounds. So when we hear other perspectives from people who claim Christ, we should ask "What can I learn about this person?" instead of rushing to say, "That's not a REAL Christian."

Speaking specifically to the Matt Chandler video. I don't agree fully with him, and he was my pastor for a number of years. However, that doesn't mean I shouldn't listen and thoughtfully consider his perspective. And it certainly doesn't mean he's not a true Christian.

Like it or not, Christianity is a big tent faith. Most religions aren't, and they require adherence to a specific political or cultural worldview. Jesus came for all people. That's what makes him unique. And I think we would do well to remember that when engaging with believers who may think differently than we do on issues like this.

This statement :

"Like it or not, Christianity is a big tent faith"


Is not biblical. Christ said that he came not to unite, but to divide. He said narrow is the way that leads to life and few there be that find it. He said he was the only door to heaven. If you come in some other way, you are a fraud.

Christianity is not a big tent religion at all. Does God offer grace to all? Yes, but very few accept it. Why? Because narrow is the way, small is the tent.

Now, if you are talking non critical theology, for example whether drinking alcohol is a sin, then yeah.

In the case of Chandler, I believe he has rejected the critical core of the faith by emphasizing worldly, divisive philosophy, instead of Christ. For him to state that he would favor one race over another in today's climate/culture, a black person over a white person, is no different than a preacher 70 years ago stating the same, but a white person over a black person, given the climate and culture then. It was wrong then. It's wrong now.

If you look at my context, what I mean is Christianity is a big tent faith when it comes to diversity of people it reaches. This is opposed to say, Islam, which is primarily an Arab-centric religion. Christianity was diverse from its beginnings and remains so today, much more than any other world religion. That's what I mean by big tent.

Are there non negotiables? Yes. Jesus is the only way. But we should never apply "the way is narrow" to a political worldview.