I don't doubt for a moment that foreign interests pay for various social and political initiatives that weaken the U.S. domestically. Plenty of politicians on both sides of the aisle receive donations from foreign interests as well. Politics is filthy and no politician, elected official, or political party is inherently trustworthy. See. We agree on things.

Rossticus said:

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The Debt said:

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Rossticus said:

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Summary text:

Asset Seizure for Ukraine Reconstruction Act

This bill authorizes the President to, subject to certain conditions, seize assets belonging to a foreign person whose wealth is derived in part through political support for or corruption linked to Russian President Vladimir Putin.

Specifically, for two years starting from this bill's enactment, the President may seize such assets if (1) Russia remains engaged in a conflict of territorial conquest in Ukraine; (2) the President has imposed sanctions on the owner of the assets for reasons related to corruption, human rights violations, malign influence, or conflicts in Ukraine; and (3) the assets are valued at over $5 million.

Such seized assets may be liquidated, and the resulting funds may only be used for specified purposes, including (1) the post-conflict reconstruction of Ukraine, (2) humanitarian assistance and refugee support for the Ukrainian people, (3) weapons for Ukraine's uniformed military forces, and (4) humanitarian and development assistance for the Russian people.

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The problem there is the Geneva convention's stance on collective punishment. This wont hold up in the courts if passed.

Unless we are throwing out a century's jurisprudence on this matter.

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It's not collective. It stipulates that the President has to have imposed sanctions on a person on an individual level. That's how it passes legal scrutiny.

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but ultimately it will be applied to a class of people....hence collective.

Russian businessman and Chinese businessman both have the same investment in russian O&G company. The russian gets his assets seized and the chinaman continues on like nothing happened. This means the seizure is not based on an individuals actions but rather association/proximity to "the enemy." Thus one person is guilty by ethnicity...hence the collective punishment.

Prove. It.

Germany is such a isht show.

Full thread: https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1519523496510083072.html

This is absolutely ridiculous.

Every single unit of energy matters right now.

Several million people's electricity is being thrown away for nothing. German Greens literally think nuclear plants explode like nuclear bombs. That is what this is about. Insanity.

— Mark Nelson (@energybants) April 28, 2022

ABATTBQ11 said:

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Prove. It.

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Prove the hypothetical of a bill that isnt officially law yet. Sure thing.

Some people are so consumed with getting a pound of flesh from russia that they dont care what precedents are removed OR what precedent is set.

FULL STEAM AHEAD.

The Debt said:

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Some people are so consumed with getting a pound of flesh from russia that they dont care what precedents are removed OR what precedent is set.

FULL STEAM AHEAD.

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I agree with almost nothing you've said on this thread but I am concerned this will bite us in the future. How long before we get into it with China and they use something similar to gobble up 100% of US assets within reach? We know they don't give a crap about any collective and use any thin argument they like. Also, not sure I like the authority this gives someone who is easily corralled by the Easter Bunny.

AggieTarheel said:

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The Debt said:

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Some people are so consumed with getting a pound of flesh from russia that they dont care what precedents are removed OR what precedent is set.

FULL STEAM AHEAD.

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I agree with almost nothing you've said on this thread but I am concerned this will bite us in the future. How long before we get into it with China and they use something similar to gobble up 100% of US assets within reach? We know they don't give a crap about any collective and use any thin argument they like. Also, not sure I like the authority this gives someone who is easily corralled by the Easter Bunny.

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Russia and China will do this whether we do or not. In fact Russia has already nationalized the Russian assets of all foreign entities who pulled out of the country at the beginning of the war. Did it weeks ago. China already nationalized the assets of its own people at will and would have no compulsion about doing it to foreign entities. Disagree for other rationale if you will but this has no impact on the actions Russia or China are willing to take. We're making an exception that Russia already has and that for China is more the rule.

Rossticus said:

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AggieTarheel said:

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The Debt said:

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Some people are so consumed with getting a pound of flesh from russia that they dont care what precedents are removed OR what precedent is set.

FULL STEAM AHEAD.

---

I agree with almost nothing you've said on this thread but I am concerned this will bite us in the future. How long before we get into it with China and they use something similar to gobble up 100% of US assets within reach? We know they don't give a crap about any collective and use any thin argument they like. Also, not sure I like the authority this gives someone who is easily corralled by the Easter Bunny.

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Russia and China will do this whether we do or not. In fact Russia has already nationalized the Russian assets of all foreign entities who pulled out of the country at the beginning of the war. Did it weeks ago. China already nationalized the assets of its own people at will and would have no compulsion about doing it to foreign entities. Disagree for other rationale if you will but this has no impact on the actions Russia or China are willing to take. We're making an exception that Russia already has and that for China is more the rule.

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I agree. However, that was just an example. I don't like the precedent. Maybe I would like it more if it was more targeted on exactly who is eligible... or honestly, I knew more about it.

I agree. I'm waiting to pass judgement until I'm able to read the full bill text. The summary does state that it's limited to two years so at least it has a sunset.

Looks like we're not going to be the only ones.

The full details here. Canada is leading the G7 with this policy. https://t.co/yeReqE0MhD

— Samuel Ramani (@SamRamani2) April 28, 2022

RebelE Infantry said:

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ABATTBQ11 said:

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The Debt said:

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ABATTBQ11 said:

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Can, but haven't and don't need to. It's not like a bunch of NATO countries don't have SLBM's and we don't have ICBM's and strategic nuclear bombers capable of targeting Moscow and every other system city.

Your "gotcha" is totally irrelevant.

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With the proximity Ukraine provides, the warheads would arrive before antimissile systems could retaliate. That's the gotcha.

If china had missiles in North Carolina, our technology could not intercept them before they hit DC. Especially not with the supersonic delivery systems. The warheads would go off before the defections systems started blaring.

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An SLBM could hit Russian in 10 minutes. An ICBM would take longer, but flying at mach 23 Russia has nothing that could possibly intercept it. A B-2 could potentially drop nukes over Russia and no would ever know until they went off.

Again, irrelevant.

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So you wouldn't have any issues with Russia or China parking missiles in Mexico or Cuba?

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I wouldn't use that as an excuse to invade those countries, rape their women, kill their civilians, and destroy their cities. So, no, not if your definitions of "have any issues" includes committing the evil atrocities that Russia has been committing.

Q: How did Ivan pay back his 300,000,000 ruble mortgage to the Russian government for $2 USD?

A: Easy. The mortgage never really existed. The Debt was nothing but Russian government propaganda and lies.

The Debt said:

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ATX_AG_08 said:

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Ukraine wants to keep their land and natural resources? How dare they.

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Nice strawman.

I'm telling you what's at stake. If NATO kept their word and refused to move east, or if ukraine stayed neutral, both nato and ukraine would be making money from these resources. That is not to excuse russian involvement. But let's not kid ourselves, this is an abstraction above the popular narrative.

This "unprovoked" invasion.

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I love the notion that either the US (via NATO) or Russia gets to determine the internal politics of Ukraine.

Ukraine is a sovereign nation that gets to decide its own path, regardless of what the US, NATO or Russia wants. Admittedly, the US has meddled with Ukrainian politics and that is frankly unacceptable. It is equally unacceptable for Russia to do so, as it obviously has done and is doing. No outside entity has some divine right to run Ukraine, regardless of proximity or alliances. As such, Ukraine has the absolute right to join NATO should they wish to do so and if NATO is willing to take them.

If however, you accept the notion that somehow Russia and the US have some right to be telling Ukraine (or any other country) what to do and how to do it as just "part of the game", that still does not give Russia (or any country/entity) the right to petulantly invade Ukraine when its efforts to control Ukraine fail.

And at the end of the day (if you accept your view of the situation) that's what this amounts to: a justified temper tantrum by Putin when his desired outcome looked to be losing.

The strategic "risk" of Ukraine in NATO is negligible at best. We have seemingly endless ways to wipe each other off the map, and all of them are unstoppable after launch. The proximity of the weapons is largely irrelevant. It certainly doesn't justify invading Ukraine.

Frankly Russia's much more pressing strategic issue is the state of their military and that it has made the world aware that they are a paper tiger with nukes.

If Russia's justification for invading Ukraine is oil & gas in the Black Sea, the machinations of NATO/US are largely irrelevant to Russia's stated casus belli. That's just a naked land grab for resources, not any ridiculous "threatening" moves by NATO/US.

The Debt said:

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Rossticus said:

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The Debt said:

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Rossticus said:

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Summary text:

Asset Seizure for Ukraine Reconstruction Act

This bill authorizes the President to, subject to certain conditions, seize assets belonging to a foreign person whose wealth is derived in part through political support for or corruption linked to Russian President Vladimir Putin.

Specifically, for two years starting from this bill's enactment, the President may seize such assets if (1) Russia remains engaged in a conflict of territorial conquest in Ukraine; (2) the President has imposed sanctions on the owner of the assets for reasons related to corruption, human rights violations, malign influence, or conflicts in Ukraine; and (3) the assets are valued at over $5 million.

Such seized assets may be liquidated, and the resulting funds may only be used for specified purposes, including (1) the post-conflict reconstruction of Ukraine, (2) humanitarian assistance and refugee support for the Ukrainian people, (3) weapons for Ukraine's uniformed military forces, and (4) humanitarian and development assistance for the Russian people.

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The problem there is the Geneva convention's stance on collective punishment. This wont hold up in the courts if passed.

Unless we are throwing out a century's jurisprudence on this matter.

---

It's not collective. It stipulates that the President has to have imposed sanctions on a person on an individual level. That's how it passes legal scrutiny.

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but ultimately it will be applied to a class of people....hence collective.

Russian businessman and Chinese businessman both have the same investment in russian O&G company. The russian gets his assets seized and the chinaman continues on like nothing happened. This means the seizure is not based on an individuals actions but rather association/proximity to "the enemy." Thus one person is guilty by ethnicity...hence the collective punishment.

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Can you read. Isn't a Chinese Businessmen a "foreign person"?

The Netherlands (🇳🇱) will send tens of military police officers (Koninklijke Marechaussee) to #Ukraine (🇺🇦) to support the investigation into possible war crimes.

The group already gained experience after the MH17 shootdown. They will leave ''really soon.'' pic.twitter.com/jokVmKXVEk

— Aerospace Intelligence (@space_osint) April 28, 2022

American response to threats so far has basically been like this pic.twitter.com/pWgM7sMSRK

— Woofers (@NotWoofers) April 28, 2022

Soooo… apparently the US has banned something that we don't celebrate anyway? Reading through the comments is a real treat. Very enlightening. Russians really do believe that they single-handedly won WW2 with no help from anyone, saved the entire world independently and that we're ungrateful to them, therefore proving we're actually Nazis.

Also the US has done worse in Iraq and Afghanistan than Russia has ever done to anyone, because either they never did it or who they did it to deserved it. Russia's benevolent greatness is unparalleled and they've been getting a raw deal forever because of how nice they are.

The US has banned the Russian-originated ‘Immortal Regiment’ parade, held each May 9 in cities around the world.

The event traditionally marks the meeting of Soviet and American soldiers on the Elbe River in 1945, and honors those who fought in the war. pic.twitter.com/MNzkSq0W5j

— RT (@RT_com) April 28, 2022

Ho Lee Chit… what is happening…

japan’s pm wants to mend ties with south korea in response to the war in ukraine

putin continuing to bring countries together pic.twitter.com/MjfJ7u0JZw

— ian bremmer (@ianbremmer) April 28, 2022

Rossticus said:

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Ho Lee Chit… what is happening…

japan’s pm wants to mend ties with south korea in response to the war in ukraine

putin continuing to bring countries together pic.twitter.com/MjfJ7u0JZw

— ian bremmer (@ianbremmer) April 28, 2022

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They really hate each other. That's a new one.

Russia's threat to retaliate against US-Japan naval exercises shows it's getting jumpy, analysts sayhttps://t.co/m6sM7muO5c

— Spy Stations (@Shortwave_Spy) April 28, 2022

If that happens that is huge

P.U.T.U said:

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If that happens that is huge

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Yes, it is.

me manifesting accurate artillery fire on general gerasimov's noggin pic.twitter.com/KQx1x4Plei

— matthew. (@iAmTheWarax) April 29, 2022

aggiehawg said:

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Rossticus said:

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Ho Lee Chit… what is happening…

japan’s pm wants to mend ties with south korea in response to the war in ukraine

putin continuing to bring countries together pic.twitter.com/MjfJ7u0JZw

— ian bremmer (@ianbremmer) April 28, 2022

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They really hate each other. That's a new one.

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yeah well the japs did go all putin on the koreans in WWII...

Russia… helping most of the developed world transcend historical grievances since 2022. Just not the parts with grievances against Russia.

AggieTarheel said:

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The Debt said:

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Some people are so consumed with getting a pound of flesh from russia that they dont care what precedents are removed OR what precedent is set.

FULL STEAM AHEAD.

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I agree with almost nothing you've said on this thread but I am concerned this will bite us in the future. How long before we get into it with China and they use something similar to gobble up 100% of US assets within reach? We know they don't give a crap about any collective and use any thin argument they like. Also, not sure I like the authority this gives someone who is easily corralled by the Easter Bunny.

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This is why we shouldn't be doing so much business with China!!!!

Interesting things are being revealed.

The lend-lease bill (the supply of weapons to Ukraine) was submitted to the US Congress on January 19 - more than a month before the start of the special operation in Ukraine. pic.twitter.com/LhDRzcbARs

— Levi (@Levi_godman) April 29, 2022

Cornyn was the sponsor?

How long was the Orc horde sitting on the border waiting on the Mao games to wrap up? Yeah, probably a good idea to have something worked up as a contingent.

RebelE Infantry said:

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Interesting things are being revealed.

The lend-lease bill (the supply of weapons to Ukraine) was submitted to the US Congress on January 19 - more than a month before the start of the special operation in Ukraine. pic.twitter.com/LhDRzcbARs

— Levi (@Levi_godman) April 29, 2022

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Still too late. We knew this was coming for months.

RebelE Infantry said:

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Interesting things are being revealed.

The lend-lease bill (the supply of weapons to Ukraine) was submitted to the US Congress on January 19 - more than a month before the start of the special operation in Ukraine. pic.twitter.com/LhDRzcbARs

— Levi (@Levi_godman) April 29, 2022

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Thank you Rebel.

I join you in praising Sen. Cornyn for his foresight in recognizing the expansionist policies of Russia and trying to act to deter them. If only our President and Democrats were equally competent this bill would not have sat in committee until Russia acted and thousands of Ukrainians paid with their lives.

Demosthenes81 said:

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RebelE Infantry said:

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Interesting things are being revealed.

The lend-lease bill (the supply of weapons to Ukraine) was submitted to the US Congress on January 19 - more than a month before the start of the special operation in Ukraine. pic.twitter.com/LhDRzcbARs

— Levi (@Levi_godman) April 29, 2022

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Thank you Rebel.

I join you in praising Sen. Cornyn for his foresight in recognizing the expansionist policies of Russia and trying to act to deter them. If only our President and Democrats were equally competent this bill would not have sat in committee until Russia acted and thousands of Ukrainians paid with their lives.

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You forgot the "/s"

One day Tucker might surprise me & invite a guest on to cogently articulate the case for US indirect involvement in this conflict. B/c a defanged Russia is in our interests. His neverending series of like-minded guests has unfortunately continued nonstop since the war began.

— Patrick Fox (@RealCynicalFox) April 29, 2022

"Dad continues to protect us, we just had to give his body to God so that Dad could become an Angel," were the words of the wife of pilot and Hero of 🇺🇦 Hennadiy Matulyak, whose father died defending 🇺🇦, for her little daughter.
🕯Today, April 29, the officer would be 45.
(1/4) pic.twitter.com/GA4OhHYz1l

— ArmyInform (@armyinformcomua) April 29, 2022