mickeyrig06sq3 said:

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Rossticus said:

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The head of Swedish counterintelligence says: "We know that every third Russian diplomat works under what we call 'diplomatic cover' and actually works for one of Russia's intelligence services."https://t.co/Wgx2wbC0jO

— max seddon (@maxseddon) April 5, 2022

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Pretty much the same for every intelligence agency in the world. Diplomatic immunity is a double-edged sword.

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Reminds me of the absolute must read nonfiction title "The Spy and The Traitor". A fantastic read of a KGB agent who secretly becomes a double agent for MI6, especially in light of current events.

https://read.amazon.com/kp/embed?asin=B0782X9PFP&preview=newtab&linkCode=kpe&ref_=cm_sw_r_kb_dp_ZWEYCRZDVBBTCB4KPNCK

pagerman @ work said:

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AlaskanAg99 said:

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pagerman @ work said:

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AlaskanAg99 said:

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This is why NATO members constantly cry to the US to protect them. They want all the upside, none of the down. The eastern countries have a clear idea of the stakes and Germany is blowing any political clout they had.

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Down side?

Have you heard the bellyaching here because the price of gasoline went up a little? And that is nothing compared to asking a country to cut off 55% of their gas supply overnight. The average high temperature in April is 57 degrees F (avg. low is 40); in May it's still only 67 degrees (avg. low of 49). In fact the average low in June and July is 54 & 58 respectively.

Additionally, Germany gets 45% of its coal & 33% of its oil from Russia. Simply turning off imports from Russia would do tremendous damage to the German economy, likely plunging it into an immediate, deep recession.

This is not asking Germany to put up with a little "pain at the pump" for the greater good. This is essentially asking (demanding?) them to commit economic suicide. Given that Germany is part of the EU, the fallout from a really ugly recession could well be problematic for other EU economies as well. How would the US respond to Canada demanding that we cut off 33% of our oil supply (and 55% of our natural gas supply) overnight for "the greater good"?

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Ahhh...the old Too Big To Fail argument. Look, Germany did this to themselves through greed and ignorance. Regardless of the fact that for several US Presidencies now we have been begging and demanding that not only Germany but the rest of NATO members MUST pay a minimum of 2% GDP to defense, esp mutual defense.

However, many did not with Germany being the glaring example of doing everything they possibly could on a high risk bet that:

A) They could free ride off NATO and not spend nearly a dime (relatively) while they spent everything on their economy and bennies.
B) They put themselves in a high risk situation by doing energy business with the devil. They rolled the dice Putin wouldn't go on a military adventure while they were completely dependent on him for energy.
C) Green Energy gambit: that has been a complete failure.
D) They shut down their nuclear plants as part of a compounding problem of B&C.

The main problem is Germany did this when other EU powers (France mostly) did not. They made extraordinary gambles based on hopes and dreams and completely ignored reality and potential hazards.

Putin knew this, and encouraged it based on his belief he HAD to go to war to save the Russian Empire. This was bolstered by the fact for the last decade he'd been going on minor excursions and no one lifted a finger. Big surprise to him when NATO found their spine and the Ukes discovered they were made of pure Ukranium and decided to fight the **** back. Bolstered by the west flooding their country with advanced weapons that took down Putin's 1980 army and equipment.

And that that end Germany has attempted to stall and block the transfer of weapons to Ukraine. The Germans are more than happy to sacrifice Ukrainians due to their poor planning and **** ideals.

**** Germany. If I was Zelenski and fighting for the survival of my people and we're about to lose? I'm going to absolutely **** over those who didn't help while for decades they cried about Russian's and not only didn't plan for it, but put themselves in a position of extraordinary weakness.

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It's not that Germany is "too big to fail". Expecting them to go along with sanctions that would do a tremendous amount of damage to their economy is simply ridiculous. No other country would do it either.

What Germany did or did not do with regard to their obligations to NATO is utterly irrelevant to their situation vis-a-vis cutting themselves off from Russian energy. If NATO was a war with Russia this would be directly relevant. As NATO is not at war with Russia, the ability of Germany to contribute to the military defense of Western Europe has no bearing on sanctioning Russia.

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Putin knew this, and encouraged it based on his belief he HAD to go to war to save the Russian Empire. This was bolstered by the fact for the last decade he'd been going on minor excursions and no one lifted a finger.

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That "no one" includes every country in Europe and the United States. Germany bares no special burden here.

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Big surprise to him when NATO found their spine and the Ukes discovered they were made of pure Ukranium and decided to fight the **** back. Bolstered by the west flooding their country with advanced weapons that took down Putin's 1980 army and equipment.

And that that end Germany has attempted to stall and block the transfer of weapons to Ukraine. The Germans are more than happy to sacrifice Ukrainians due to their poor planning and **** ideals.

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The above was only true prior to the Russian invasion. Even the countries that were sending weapons were not sending them in the volumes that they are now. It is undeniable that (prior to the invasion) Germany took measures to block shipments of weapons that had originated in Germany to Ukraine. They were realizing that they had made a colossal mistake in "going green" and were now subject to the whims of Putin and Russia for the majority of their energy. They had to kowtow to Putin because of their epic stupidity. You are delusional if you think the US wouldn't have done exactly the same thing in a similar situation. The reality is there is little (if any) morality in international politics. It is also notable that Germany announced she was shipping anti-tank weapons and manpads to Ukraine on Feb 28, which is only 4 days after the Russian invasion.

Look, I get that Germany made a monumentally stupid move in shutting down all of their nuclear plants and making themselves utterly dependent on a foreign country, let alone Russia. I get that the stupidity of that move could have been (and was) predicted by almost anyone that wasn't addled by environmental green baloney. Their proverbial chickens have come home to roost on this idiocy pretty quickly.

But to expect them (or frankly any country) to voluntarily drop a bomb or 5 on their economy is simply naive wishful thinking.

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Only Germany bears the burden for the situation they put themselves in. This is going to have very long term political and policy implications for every country dealing with Germany. But Germany is saying they're effectively complicit in the destruction of Ukraine because they ****ed up and ignored every possible warning that was sent their way because by partnering with Russia they were able to bolster their economy cheaper.

This is going to have global implications, but in effect the Europeans ignored their own backyard while free loading. Putin has Germany right where he wants them, under his boot.

AlaskanAg99 said:

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pagerman @ work said:

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AlaskanAg99 said:

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pagerman @ work said:

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AlaskanAg99 said:

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This is why NATO members constantly cry to the US to protect them. They want all the upside, none of the down. The eastern countries have a clear idea of the stakes and Germany is blowing any political clout they had.

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Down side?

Have you heard the bellyaching here because the price of gasoline went up a little? And that is nothing compared to asking a country to cut off 55% of their gas supply overnight. The average high temperature in April is 57 degrees F (avg. low is 40); in May it's still only 67 degrees (avg. low of 49). In fact the average low in June and July is 54 & 58 respectively.

Additionally, Germany gets 45% of its coal & 33% of its oil from Russia. Simply turning off imports from Russia would do tremendous damage to the German economy, likely plunging it into an immediate, deep recession.

This is not asking Germany to put up with a little "pain at the pump" for the greater good. This is essentially asking (demanding?) them to commit economic suicide. Given that Germany is part of the EU, the fallout from a really ugly recession could well be problematic for other EU economies as well. How would the US respond to Canada demanding that we cut off 33% of our oil supply (and 55% of our natural gas supply) overnight for "the greater good"?

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Ahhh...the old Too Big To Fail argument. Look, Germany did this to themselves through greed and ignorance. Regardless of the fact that for several US Presidencies now we have been begging and demanding that not only Germany but the rest of NATO members MUST pay a minimum of 2% GDP to defense, esp mutual defense.

However, many did not with Germany being the glaring example of doing everything they possibly could on a high risk bet that:

A) They could free ride off NATO and not spend nearly a dime (relatively) while they spent everything on their economy and bennies.
B) They put themselves in a high risk situation by doing energy business with the devil. They rolled the dice Putin wouldn't go on a military adventure while they were completely dependent on him for energy.
C) Green Energy gambit: that has been a complete failure.
D) They shut down their nuclear plants as part of a compounding problem of B&C.

The main problem is Germany did this when other EU powers (France mostly) did not. They made extraordinary gambles based on hopes and dreams and completely ignored reality and potential hazards.

Putin knew this, and encouraged it based on his belief he HAD to go to war to save the Russian Empire. This was bolstered by the fact for the last decade he'd been going on minor excursions and no one lifted a finger. Big surprise to him when NATO found their spine and the Ukes discovered they were made of pure Ukranium and decided to fight the **** back. Bolstered by the west flooding their country with advanced weapons that took down Putin's 1980 army and equipment.

And that that end Germany has attempted to stall and block the transfer of weapons to Ukraine. The Germans are more than happy to sacrifice Ukrainians due to their poor planning and **** ideals.

**** Germany. If I was Zelenski and fighting for the survival of my people and we're about to lose? I'm going to absolutely **** over those who didn't help while for decades they cried about Russian's and not only didn't plan for it, but put themselves in a position of extraordinary weakness.

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It's not that Germany is "too big to fail". Expecting them to go along with sanctions that would do a tremendous amount of damage to their economy is simply ridiculous. No other country would do it either.

What Germany did or did not do with regard to their obligations to NATO is utterly irrelevant to their situation vis-a-vis cutting themselves off from Russian energy. If NATO was a war with Russia this would be directly relevant. As NATO is not at war with Russia, the ability of Germany to contribute to the military defense of Western Europe has no bearing on sanctioning Russia.

Quote:

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Putin knew this, and encouraged it based on his belief he HAD to go to war to save the Russian Empire. This was bolstered by the fact for the last decade he'd been going on minor excursions and no one lifted a finger.

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That "no one" includes every country in Europe and the United States. Germany bares no special burden here.

Quote:

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Big surprise to him when NATO found their spine and the Ukes discovered they were made of pure Ukranium and decided to fight the **** back. Bolstered by the west flooding their country with advanced weapons that took down Putin's 1980 army and equipment.

And that that end Germany has attempted to stall and block the transfer of weapons to Ukraine. The Germans are more than happy to sacrifice Ukrainians due to their poor planning and **** ideals.

---

The above was only true prior to the Russian invasion. Even the countries that were sending weapons were not sending them in the volumes that they are now. It is undeniable that (prior to the invasion) Germany took measures to block shipments of weapons that had originated in Germany to Ukraine. They were realizing that they had made a colossal mistake in "going green" and were now subject to the whims of Putin and Russia for the majority of their energy. They had to kowtow to Putin because of their epic stupidity. You are delusional if you think the US wouldn't have done exactly the same thing in a similar situation. The reality is there is little (if any) morality in international politics. It is also notable that Germany announced she was shipping anti-tank weapons and manpads to Ukraine on Feb 28, which is only 4 days after the Russian invasion.

Look, I get that Germany made a monumentally stupid move in shutting down all of their nuclear plants and making themselves utterly dependent on a foreign country, let alone Russia. I get that the stupidity of that move could have been (and was) predicted by almost anyone that wasn't addled by environmental green baloney. Their proverbial chickens have come home to roost on this idiocy pretty quickly.

But to expect them (or frankly any country) to voluntarily drop a bomb or 5 on their economy is simply naive wishful thinking.

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Only Germany bears the burden for the situation they put themselves in. This is going to have very long term political and policy implications for every country dealing with Germany. But Germany is saying they're effectively complicit in the destruction of Ukraine because they ****ed up and ignored every possible warning that was sent their way because by partnering with Russia they were able to bolster their economy cheaper.

This is going to have global implications, but in effect the Europeans ignored their own backyard while free loading. Putin has Germany right where he wants them, under his boot.

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This. Germany has been trying to have their cake and eat it too for decades, and now their poor decisions/greed is coming home to roost.

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The Treasury Department blocked Russia from using dollars held at U.S. banks to service its debt, increasing the odds of Moscow defaulting on its sovereign financial obligations.

The move, which came Monday night, is intended to deplete the Kremlin's resources for its bloody invasion of Ukraine and cut Russia off from its over $600 million reserves in U.S. banks that it was previously allowed to use to service its international debt, according to the Treasury.

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"Beginning yesterday, the U.S. Treasury will not permit any dollar debt payments to be made from Russian government accounts at U.S. financial institutions," a Treasury spokesperson said, according to Politico. "This will further deplete the resources Putin is using to continue his war against Ukraine and will cause more uncertainty and challenges for their financial system."

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Link

To the same end, it's the same as liberals in the US *****ing non-stop about defense spending. They live in a magical world where nothing will really happen and that if we all just get along, everything would be OK.

And that's true, but it has no basis in reality. Europe is now the proof of a **** concept, they didn't spend enough, bad things are happening, and now everyone is scrambling. "Well we hate Putin too." Sure, that makes sense but you HAVE to spend on defense to act as a deterrent, even if the hardware usually just collects dust (yeah I know that's wrong too as the RU army is also proving).

The post-WWII global order is collapsing at a remarkably quick pace. Trade, agriculture, security, energy, it's all going to **** in just over a month. I hope to god our elected leaders are working with US industries and encouraging them to relocate back to the America's as fast as possible, knowing full well this will take decades in some cases. Meanwhile, foreign countries have to be begging the US for food/energy/security cover.

And we have a old man who ****'s his pants, and a cackling clown in office.

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Only Germany bears the burden for the situation they put themselves in.

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Absolutely. And neither they nor anyone else is saying otherwise.

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This is going to have very long term political and policy implications for every country dealing with Germany.

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Probably not.

Quote:

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But Germany is saying they're effectively complicit in the destruction of Ukraine because they ****ed up and ignored every possible warning that was sent their way because by partnering with Russia they were able to bolster their economy cheaper.

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If Germany is "complicit in the destruction of Ukraine" because of their energy decisions, then America is downright responsible for it, given the US foreign policy vis-a-vis Ukraine and Russia. Germany's "complicity" is only recent (i.e. since February 24 of this year). The US has been meddling around with Russia and Ukraine since the Berlin Wall came down.

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This is going to have global implications, but in effect the Europeans ignored their own backyard while free loading. Putin has Germany right where he wants them, under his boot.

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I am curious what global implications you are meaning here. I'm not saying there aren't any, I am just curioius as to what you believe will be the most significant.

The only thing they were "freeloading" was in terms of NATO, which again is utterly irrelevant to Germany's dependence on Russian energy.

And no doubt, Putin is in a powerful position vis-a-vis Germany and their energy dependence. If Germany can stay with their plan to wean themselves off of Russian energy, then they should be mostly off the teat by this time next year, and completely off by 2024.

The full statement from Yair Lapid:

“The images and testimony from Ukraine are horrific. Russian forces committed war crimes against a defenseless civilian population. I strongly condemn these war crimes”

— Samuel Ramani (@SamRamani2) April 5, 2022

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This is going to have very long term political and policy implications for every country dealing with Germany.
Probably not.

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You don't think that any nation that's been underfunding their defense is not going to be held to a higher standard in the future? Well, ok then.

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Quote:

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But Germany is saying they're effectively complicit in the destruction of Ukraine because they ****ed up and ignored every possible warning that was sent their way because by partnering with Russia they were able to bolster their economy cheaper.

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If Germany is "complicit in the destruction of Ukraine" because of their energy decisions, then America is downright responsible for it, given the US foreign policy vis-a-vis Ukraine and Russia. Germany's "complicity" is only recent (i.e. since February 24 of this year). The US has been meddling around with Russia and Ukraine since the Berlin Wall came down.

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This didn't start 2/24. Putin recognized immense weakness in the EU and also understood their state of readiness, esp the Germans where it was reported in 2018 they couldn't even get an airwing off the ground. As far as doing nothing about Putin's military adventures in Syria/Georgia/Ukraine, most of that was under weak US presidents. You think it's just a coincidence this started under Biden?

However at the end of the day this is primarily a EU/NATO problem and the long history of NATO underfunding their defense is what has led, in part, to Russia being aggressive. Also the fact they're terrified of Russia and yet tied their economies to cheaper RU energy because they didn't want to import from either the US or elsewhere.

Quote:

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Quote:

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This is going to have global implications, but in effect the Europeans ignored their own backyard while free loading. Putin has Germany right where he wants them, under his boot.

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I am curious what global implications you are meaning here. I'm not saying there aren't any, I am just curioius as to what you believe will be the most significant.

The only thing they were "freeloading" was in terms of NATO, which again is utterly irrelevant to Germany's dependence on Russian energy.

And no doubt, Putin is in a powerful position vis-a-vis Germany and their energy dependence. If Germany can stay with their plan to wean themselves off of Russian energy, then they should be mostly off the teat by this time next year, and completely off by 2024.

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Call it the ripple effect. The longer this goes on, the larger and further the ripples will go. The ripples will also impact different regions at a disproportionate level than others. It depends on what your country needs the most will determine how quickly things destabilize. The simple fact is, the more a country imports, the worse off they will be. The longer the exports are impinged, the worse off and the greater the destabilization things will be. How bad? Really depends and where a country is and what they need.

The 2nd problem is if export/imports can't be restored quickly, the destabilization will take on a life of it's own.

aggiehawg said:

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Satellite images show the bodies were laying in the street for days.

Link

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You're wasting your time.

You're spot on.

And the most frustrating part is that Germany has spent 20 years becoming more dependent on Russia.

Everyone outside of Germany is expecting them to pay for their policy mistakes, and they refuse to.

Why are we letting these fu.ktard russians torture and kill civilians? We need to go fu.k them up and assassinate pukin.

Navalny statement on Bucha.

Thread: https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1511368989435469834.html

2/14 In the evening, the Channel One anchor explained everything. And I wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't seen it with my own eyes and heard it with my own ears:

— Alexey Navalny (@navalny) April 5, 2022

According to this witness, Bucha executions began almost as soon as Russian occupation began. Russia claiming that this and other eyewitness statements are but very well acted, artfully produced disinformation.

Witness. Bucha.
English subtitles pic.twitter.com/VZDXlxZr0w

— Nikola Repin (@nikorepi) April 5, 2022

Do not believe *anything* until the Kremlin denies it™️ https://t.co/3majtQaZNv

— Darth Putin (@DarthPutinKGB) April 5, 2022

Russian UN Ambassador Vasily Nebenzia said that Russia needs to "cut off the Nazi cancerous tumour" to save the Donbas

The dehumanization of Ukrainians, which is so prevalent in Russian media, came to the UN floor

— Samuel Ramani (@SamRamani2) April 5, 2022

No idea if this stems from anything remotely stemming from current tensions. But here it is.

Correction: Barksdale AFB is located in Louisiana, not Texas.

Apologies for the mistake!

— Aerospace Intelligence (@space_osint) April 5, 2022

JUST IN: 63 Republicans just voted against a House resolution expressing support for NATO and principles of democracy.

— No Lie with Brian Tyler Cohen (@NoLieWithBTC) April 5, 2022

Haven't seen text of the resolution know what it entailed, so withholding judgement but here are the names of the "no" votes.

https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/house-resolution/831/text

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Whereas the NATO Parliamentary Assembly has endorsed and advanced a proposal to establish a NATO Center for Democratic Resilience within NATO headquarters for the purposes of monitoring and identifying challenges to democracy, human rights, and the rule of law and facilitating democracy and governance assistance to member, partner, and aspirant states, when requested:

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WTH does that mean?

Would assume this to be the primary sticking point as it would lead to a codified US commitment to European stability.

"2) calls on the President to use the voice and vote of the United States to adopt a new Strategic Concept for NATO that is clear about its support for shared democratic values and committed to enhancing NATO's capacity to strengthen democratic institutions within NATO member, partner, and aspirant countries;"

No vote a commentary on a more isolationist and reactionary role vs proactive and integrated. Pros and cons to both approaches.

aggiehawg said:

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Whereas the NATO Parliamentary Assembly has endorsed and advanced a proposal to establish a NATO Center for Democratic Resilience within NATO headquarters for the purposes of monitoring and identifying challenges to democracy, human rights, and the rule of law and facilitating democracy and governance assistance to member, partner, and aspirant states, when requested:

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WTH does that mean?

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Exactly. If you're going to throw language like that out there you have to define the intent more narrowly/specifically. That can be construed as a whole lot of meddling in other governments' sovereign affairs as stated there. "When requested" by whom?

aggiehawg said:

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Whereas the NATO Parliamentary Assembly has endorsed and advanced a proposal to establish a NATO Center for Democratic Resilience within NATO headquarters for the purposes of monitoring and identifying challenges to democracy, human rights, and the rule of law and facilitating democracy and governance assistance to member, partner, and aspirant states, when requested:

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WTH does that mean?

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I read it as it won't be the UN invading our country but NATO, if we were ever to need "assistance in facilitating our democracy".

cctexagMD said:

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aggiehawg said:

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Whereas the NATO Parliamentary Assembly has endorsed and advanced a proposal to establish a NATO Center for Democratic Resilience within NATO headquarters for the purposes of monitoring and identifying challenges to democracy, human rights, and the rule of law and facilitating democracy and governance assistance to member, partner, and aspirant states, when requested:

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WTH does that mean?

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I read it as it won't be the UN invading our country but NATO, if we were ever to need "assistance in facilitating our democracy".

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Yeah that language is too ambiguous. NATO is a defensive alliance, only.

Rossticus said:

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aggiehawg said:

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Quote:

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Whereas the NATO Parliamentary Assembly has endorsed and advanced a proposal to establish a NATO Center for Democratic Resilience within NATO headquarters for the purposes of monitoring and identifying challenges to democracy, human rights, and the rule of law and facilitating democracy and governance assistance to member, partner, and aspirant states, when requested:

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WTH does that mean?

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Exactly. If you're going to throw language like that out there you have to define the intent more narrowly/specifically. That can be construed as a whole lot of meddling in other governments' sovereign affairs as stated there. "When requested" by whom?

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purposes of monitoring and identifying challenges to democracy,

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Like when Republicans try to tighten laws affecting election security and Democrats scream "you're destroying democracy - call in NATO!!!"

Seems like a resolution aimed at outlaws like orban. He bucks the system.

Looks like he just gave China permission to retake eastern Siberia. Get on it, Xi.

pic.twitter.com/6flargWejb

— Ukraine Memes for NATO Teens (@MENAConflicted) April 5, 2022

pic.twitter.com/71KiEf8dZS

— Kama (@Kama_Kamilia) April 5, 2022

What do you call a Russian tank brigade returning from Ukraine?

An Infantry Platoon. pic.twitter.com/zQ4QqqNs7e

— Petri Mäkelä (@pmakela1) April 5, 2022