Pilots? Why is there no ATC?

Quote:

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Reports on Aug 18 suggest that both sides of the airport are now available again after US and allied forces re-secured the civilian side of the airport. However, the latest Notams for OAKB/Kabul Airport make it clear that there is no ATC at the airport, and each flight must operate as a VFR flight at its own risk. All flights must tanker fuel inbound, and obtain PPR which is only valid for a 30 minute time window:

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Quote:

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A0004/21
KABUL INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT IS VFR ONLY AND OPEN TO COMMERCIAL AND MILITARY AVIATION.
WHEN THE AIRFIELD IS OPEN, KABUL INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT IS A PPR REQUIRED AIRFIELD.
PPR REQUEST FORM IS LOCATED AT:
HTTP://ACAA.GOV.AF/WP-CONTENT/UPLOADS/2017/09/KABUL-APRON-8-PPR-FORM-15-OCT-16.XLS
SEND PPR REQUESTS TO HKIAPPRS@GMAIL.COM AND ISAFKIAAIROPSPPRNU@HQ.RS.NATO.INT
FOR PPR APPROVAL CONTACT THE KABUL INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT AIRFIELD MANAGER TO OBTAIN
A PPR AT +93700133903 OR+93700133902. LANDING AT THE AIRPORT WITHOUT A PPR IS DENIED
EXCEPT IN THE EVENT OF AN EMERGENCY. AIRCRAFT MUST ARRIVE WITHIN 30 MINUTES OF PPR
APPROVED ARRIVAL TIME OR RE-COORDINATE FOR A NEW PPR. LANDING AT THE AIRPORT CAN ONLY
OCCUR BY AN APPROVED PPR OBTAINED FROM THE KABUL INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT AIRFIELD MANAGER.
ALL LANDING AIRCRAFT EXPECT TO PARK ON THE NORTH SIDE OF THE AIRFIELD. NO ADDITIONAL
SERVICES AVAILABLE AT THE AIRFIELD.
18 AUG 00:23 2021 UNTIL 12 SEP 23:59 2021. CREATED: 18 AUG 00:40 2021

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Link

Rendered Fat said:

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I think the ONLY positive to what's going on, is that it looks like we'll be able to get all of the remaining Americans out peacefully. There is no chance they mess up this take over by killing one of us. With that being said though, it already appears as if the Afghani people are in for hell.

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Not a chance. There are Americans trapped all over the country.

Amazingly incompetent moment as Defense Department spokesman John Kirby says they don't have a breakdown of the people who've been on flights out of Afghanistan AND they still have no idea how many Americans are still trapped in the country behind enemy lines. pic.twitter.com/jyV4Z2nZZe

— Curtis Houck (@CurtisHouck) August 19, 2021

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AGHouston11 said:

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What an embarrassing crap show.

Que some false red flags to distract - coming soon.

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the bomb threat is so predictable

TChaney said:

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🇦🇫 A 200-meter flag of Afghanistan was carried across Kabul. The protests continue.#Afghanistan #Kabul #Taliban pic.twitter.com/kJwFB2bx3x

— The RAGEX (@theragex) August 19, 2021

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We are the youth of today, no darkness can overcome us.
The pen is our weapon. And the future is for us.
Not to the Islamic Emirate.#Kabul today. pic.twitter.com/mCanDPk9Wy

— Yahya Aliyar (@yahya_aliyar) August 19, 2021

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Once the western journalists and cameras leave or are controlled the likelihood of mass killing will increase.

No ATC isn't a huge deal. You really only need it at be busy airports with constant traffic. Otherwise pilots are fine to work out out amongst each other their intentions and order.

Even Eastwood on game days is sometimes uncontrolled.

Kenneth_2003 said:

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No ATC isn't a huge deal. You really only need it at be busy airports with constant traffic. Otherwise pilots are fine to work out out amongst each other their intentions and order.

Even Eastwood on game days is sometimes uncontrolled.

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Thanks. What is PPR?

Also, does using VFR slow things down a bit?

From wiki (see this as relevant in leadership terms):

On 27 June, Clay cabled William Draper with an estimate of the current situation:

I have already arranged for our maximum airlift to start on Monday [June 28]. For a sustained effort, we can use seventy Dakotas [C-47s]. The number which the British can make available is not yet known, although General Robertson is somewhat doubtful of their ability to make this number available. Our two Berlin airports can handle in the neighborhood of fifty additional airplanes per day. These would have to be C-47s, C-54s or planes with similar landing characteristics, as our airports cannot take larger planes. LeMay is urging two C-54 groups. With this airlift, we should be able to bring in 600 or 700 tons a day. While 2,000 tons a day is required in normal foods, 600 tons a day (utilizing dried foods to the maximum extent) will substantially increase the morale of the German people and will unquestionably seriously disturb the Soviet blockade. To accomplish this, it is urgent that we be given approximately 50 additional transport planes to arrive in Germany at the earliest practicable date, and each day's delay will of course decrease our ability to sustain our position in Berlin. Crews would be needed to permit maximum operation of these planes.

Lucius D. Clay, June 1948

Our leadership has lost what needs to be done and audacity.

ea1060 said:

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Can you imagine these people casually recording videos on their cell phone or something while the Taliban is close to them just firing off rounds. Takes some balls.

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And a complete lack of hope and resigned to ultimately being murdered.

Not a pilot so I've got no idea what PPR is. VFR just means visual flight rules so no reliance in instrument approaches. You can use the instruments, but you've got to be able to see.

I'm guessing that speed/separation aren't a huge deal with the volume they've got

Not a pilot but spent some time in small airplanes.

So the pilot just announces to traffic they are on approach and wait for a response from other planes?

I know I landed in Mississippi once with that any came in uncomfortably close to some navy trainers.

Seabreeze said:

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I know it probably won't happen, but I would like to see someone lay one of those dudes out with a right cross.

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yea, at the 15-16 second mark when the Taliban guy holds on to the barrel of the rifle and swings the butt at the guy, I was waiting for him to grab it and pull the trigger, I mean, the idiot was kind enough to line up the shot on himself, might as well oblige him.

Agthatbuilds said:

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Not a pilot but spent some time in small airplanes.

So the pilot just announces to traffic they are on approach and wait for a response from other planes?

I know I landed in Mississippi once with that any came in uncomfortably close to some navy trainers.

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PPR = Prior Permission Required

Thank you! Thought it might be something like that with the 30 minute window but wasn't sure.

PPR=Prior Permission Required

aggiehawg said:

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Pilots? Why is there no ATC?

Quote:

---

Reports on Aug 18 suggest that both sides of the airport are now available again after US and allied forces re-secured the civilian side of the airport. However, the latest Notams for OAKB/Kabul Airport make it clear that there is no ATC at the airport, and each flight must operate as a VFR flight at its own risk. All flights must tanker fuel inbound, and obtain PPR which is only valid for a 30 minute time window:

---

Quote:

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A0004/21
KABUL INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT IS VFR ONLY AND OPEN TO COMMERCIAL AND MILITARY AVIATION.
WHEN THE AIRFIELD IS OPEN, KABUL INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT IS A PPR REQUIRED AIRFIELD.
PPR REQUEST FORM IS LOCATED AT:
HTTP://ACAA.GOV.AF/WP-CONTENT/UPLOADS/2017/09/KABUL-APRON-8-PPR-FORM-15-OCT-16.XLS
SEND PPR REQUESTS TO HKIAPPRS@GMAIL.COM AND ISAFKIAAIROPSPPRNU@HQ.RS.NATO.INT
FOR PPR APPROVAL CONTACT THE KABUL INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT AIRFIELD MANAGER TO OBTAIN
A PPR AT +93700133903 OR+93700133902. LANDING AT THE AIRPORT WITHOUT A PPR IS DENIED
EXCEPT IN THE EVENT OF AN EMERGENCY. AIRCRAFT MUST ARRIVE WITHIN 30 MINUTES OF PPR
APPROVED ARRIVAL TIME OR RE-COORDINATE FOR A NEW PPR. LANDING AT THE AIRPORT CAN ONLY
OCCUR BY AN APPROVED PPR OBTAINED FROM THE KABUL INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT AIRFIELD MANAGER.
ALL LANDING AIRCRAFT EXPECT TO PARK ON THE NORTH SIDE OF THE AIRFIELD. NO ADDITIONAL
SERVICES AVAILABLE AT THE AIRFIELD.
18 AUG 00:23 2021 UNTIL 12 SEP 23:59 2021. CREATED: 18 AUG 00:40 2021

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Link

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VFR only means there are no instrument approaches there that are certified. You can operate a control tower at a VFR airport, and I read elsewhere that part of the US deployment of 6000 troops there included air traffic controllers.

Quote:

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and I read elsewhere that part of the US deployment of 6000 troops there included air traffic controllers.

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So did I. But that directive was yesterday. Those controllers should have been there by now, I would have thought.

But this really goes back to an earlier joint briefing by Major General Hacker and DOD spokesperson, Adm, Kirby.

This was a few days ago, Tuesday, I think, but Hacker was saying they hoped to have a flight out every hour to take 5-7 thousand people out a day. And he believed that capability would be in place within 24 hours.

Yet, here it is two days later and things are still at the 2,000 person level. And even that number is unclear if that is only the military operation or a combination of commercial and charter flights and our allies getting their people out too.

Frustrated they keep kicking that can down the road in these briefings.

NEW - Toddler pulled over wall by U.S. soldiers as desperate crowds gather outside #Kabul airport.pic.twitter.com/NUDYAViOcb

— Disclose.tv (@disclosetv) August 19, 2021

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I wonder if the airport personnel granting the PPRs, etc are Taliban or Afghan/US.

Ag_07 said:

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Seeing these children is absolutely heartbreaking.

What happens to them? Assuming they just get swept away and become refugees and never see their family again?

As a dad of 2 toddlers I can't even imagine.

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I'm right there with you. If I thought she would be more safe and altogether better off, I'd pass my daughter off to a foreign soldier that I'd never met before but the situation that would cause that would have to be pretty bleak.

Ag_07 said:

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Seeing these children is absolutely heartbreaking.

What happens to them? Assuming they just get swept away and become refugees and never see their family again?

As a dad of 2 toddlers I can't even imagine.

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If you worked with the Americans and you know the choice is hand over your kid to the Americans and into an unknown future or be dragged in front of you and tortured and killed before you're tortured and killed, I know what I would do.

Ag_07 said:

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Seeing these children is absolutely heartbreaking.

What happens to them? Assuming they just get swept away and become refugees and never see their family again?

As a dad of 2 toddlers I can't even imagine.

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The parents know they probably won't get out and their entire families will be killed including that infant.

They are making the choice to give their child a chance.

Heartbreaking.

UhOhNoAgTag said:

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I wonder if the airport personnel granting the PPRs, etc are Taliban or Afghan/US.

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I imagine the DoD air traffic controllers are granting the PPRs. The email addresses indicate that.

Remember, we have 4000-5000 armed troops on the field. We can stop any plane from landing.

Also, I haven't been watching closely, but what commercial airline is still providing service to Kabul? None of the customers can get into the airport to board a commercial flight!

AP on the Doha deal Trump and Pompeo made.

Quote:

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One day before the Doha deal, a top aide to chief U.S. negotiator Zalmay Khalilzad said the agreement was not irreversible, and "there is no obligation for the United States to withdraw troops if the Afghan parties are unable to reach agreement or if the Taliban show bad faith" during negotiations.

Those negotiations were intended to begin within a month of the deal being signed but were delayed amid disputes between the Taliban and the Afghan government over prisoner releases. Amid fits and starts, the negotiations had not produced any outcome by the time Biden announced his withdrawal decision in April. Nor have they done so since.

source: AP

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So, Biden acts unilaterally by creating a false deadline of 9/11.

Ag_07 said:

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Seeing these children is absolutely heartbreaking.

What happens to them? Assuming they just get swept away and become refugees and never see their family again?

As a dad of 2 toddlers I can't even imagine.

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I've got a two and four year old; the video on the other page has made me an emotional wreck.

"In total, Milley said there are some 20 companies on the ground ready to fight. On top of ground forces, he said there are "multiple squadrons" of combat aircraft, including F-18s, AC-130 gunships, B-52 bombers, F-16s and drones."

Digging In

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aggiehawg said:

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Pilots? Why is there no ATC?

+ 1 more quotes (click to expand)

Quote:

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Reports on Aug 18 suggest that both sides of the airport are now available again after US and allied forces re-secured the civilian side of the airport. However, the latest Notams for OAKB/Kabul Airport make it clear that there is no ATC at the airport, and each flight must operate as a VFR flight at its own risk. All flights must tanker fuel inbound, and obtain PPR which is only valid for a 30 minute time window:

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+ 1 more quotes (click to expand)

Quote:

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A0004/21
KABUL INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT IS VFR ONLY AND OPEN TO COMMERCIAL AND MILITARY AVIATION.
WHEN THE AIRFIELD IS OPEN, KABUL INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT IS A PPR REQUIRED AIRFIELD.
PPR REQUEST FORM IS LOCATED AT:
HTTP://ACAA.GOV.AF/WP-CONTENT/UPLOADS/2017/09/KABUL-APRON-8-PPR-FORM-15-OCT-16.XLS
SEND PPR REQUESTS TO HKIAPPRS@GMAIL.COM AND ISAFKIAAIROPSPPRNU@HQ.RS.NATO.INT
FOR PPR APPROVAL CONTACT THE KABUL INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT AIRFIELD MANAGER TO OBTAIN
A PPR AT +93700133903 OR+93700133902. LANDING AT THE AIRPORT WITHOUT A PPR IS DENIED
EXCEPT IN THE EVENT OF AN EMERGENCY. AIRCRAFT MUST ARRIVE WITHIN 30 MINUTES OF PPR
APPROVED ARRIVAL TIME OR RE-COORDINATE FOR A NEW PPR. LANDING AT THE AIRPORT CAN ONLY
OCCUR BY AN APPROVED PPR OBTAINED FROM THE KABUL INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT AIRFIELD MANAGER.
ALL LANDING AIRCRAFT EXPECT TO PARK ON THE NORTH SIDE OF THE AIRFIELD. NO ADDITIONAL
SERVICES AVAILABLE AT THE AIRFIELD.
18 AUG 00:23 2021 UNTIL 12 SEP 23:59 2021. CREATED: 18 AUG 00:40 2021

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Link

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sanangelo said:

VFR only means there are no instrument approaches there that are certified. You can operate a control tower at a VFR airport, and I read elsewhere that part of the US deployment of 6000 troops there included air traffic controllers.

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I will guarantee there are USAF combat controllers embedded with our forces at Kabul right now. Guaranteed.

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aggiehawg said:

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Pilots? Why is there no ATC?

+ 1 more quotes (click to expand)

Quote:

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Reports on Aug 18 suggest that both sides of the airport are now available again after US and allied forces re-secured the civilian side of the airport. However, the latest Notams for OAKB/Kabul Airport make it clear that there is no ATC at the airport, and each flight must operate as a VFR flight at its own risk. All flights must tanker fuel inbound, and obtain PPR which is only valid for a 30 minute time window:

---

+ 1 more quotes (click to expand)

Quote:

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A0004/21
KABUL INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT IS VFR ONLY AND OPEN TO COMMERCIAL AND MILITARY AVIATION.
WHEN THE AIRFIELD IS OPEN, KABUL INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT IS A PPR REQUIRED AIRFIELD.
PPR REQUEST FORM IS LOCATED AT:
HTTP://ACAA.GOV.AF/WP-CONTENT/UPLOADS/2017/09/KABUL-APRON-8-PPR-FORM-15-OCT-16.XLS
SEND PPR REQUESTS TO HKIAPPRS@GMAIL.COM AND ISAFKIAAIROPSPPRNU@HQ.RS.NATO.INT
FOR PPR APPROVAL CONTACT THE KABUL INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT AIRFIELD MANAGER TO OBTAIN
A PPR AT +93700133903 OR+93700133902. LANDING AT THE AIRPORT WITHOUT A PPR IS DENIED
EXCEPT IN THE EVENT OF AN EMERGENCY. AIRCRAFT MUST ARRIVE WITHIN 30 MINUTES OF PPR
APPROVED ARRIVAL TIME OR RE-COORDINATE FOR A NEW PPR. LANDING AT THE AIRPORT CAN ONLY
OCCUR BY AN APPROVED PPR OBTAINED FROM THE KABUL INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT AIRFIELD MANAGER.
ALL LANDING AIRCRAFT EXPECT TO PARK ON THE NORTH SIDE OF THE AIRFIELD. NO ADDITIONAL
SERVICES AVAILABLE AT THE AIRFIELD.
18 AUG 00:23 2021 UNTIL 12 SEP 23:59 2021. CREATED: 18 AUG 00:40 2021

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Link

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sanangelo said:

VFR only means there are no instrument approaches there that are certified. You can operate a control tower at a VFR airport, and I read elsewhere that part of the US deployment of 6000 troops there included air traffic controllers.

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VFR only means no instrument approaches, which means you can reduce separation. That means more planes can be in the same area at the same time. With an instrument approach, there can generally only be one plane on the approach at a time. You can line them up like a parade if you're not worried about keeping everyone in a hold until the approach is completed. Once they're off the ground, the AF likely doesn't give a damn about cloud clearance, so I see this as a good thing if the weather cooperates.

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+ 3 more quotes (click to expand)

aggiehawg said:

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Pilots? Why is there no ATC?

Quote:

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Reports on Aug 18 suggest that both sides of the airport are now available again after US and allied forces re-secured the civilian side of the airport. However, the latest Notams for OAKB/Kabul Airport make it clear that there is no ATC at the airport, and each flight must operate as a VFR flight at its own risk. All flights must tanker fuel inbound, and obtain PPR which is only valid for a 30 minute time window:

---

Quote:

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A0004/21
KABUL INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT IS VFR ONLY AND OPEN TO COMMERCIAL AND MILITARY AVIATION.
WHEN THE AIRFIELD IS OPEN, KABUL INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT IS A PPR REQUIRED AIRFIELD.
PPR REQUEST FORM IS LOCATED AT:
HTTP://ACAA.GOV.AF/WP-CONTENT/UPLOADS/2017/09/KABUL-APRON-8-PPR-FORM-15-OCT-16.XLS
SEND PPR REQUESTS TO HKIAPPRS@GMAIL.COM AND ISAFKIAAIROPSPPRNU@HQ.RS.NATO.INT
FOR PPR APPROVAL CONTACT THE KABUL INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT AIRFIELD MANAGER TO OBTAIN
A PPR AT +93700133903 OR+93700133902. LANDING AT THE AIRPORT WITHOUT A PPR IS DENIED
EXCEPT IN THE EVENT OF AN EMERGENCY. AIRCRAFT MUST ARRIVE WITHIN 30 MINUTES OF PPR
APPROVED ARRIVAL TIME OR RE-COORDINATE FOR A NEW PPR. LANDING AT THE AIRPORT CAN ONLY
OCCUR BY AN APPROVED PPR OBTAINED FROM THE KABUL INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT AIRFIELD MANAGER.
ALL LANDING AIRCRAFT EXPECT TO PARK ON THE NORTH SIDE OF THE AIRFIELD. NO ADDITIONAL
SERVICES AVAILABLE AT THE AIRFIELD.
18 AUG 00:23 2021 UNTIL 12 SEP 23:59 2021. CREATED: 18 AUG 00:40 2021

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Link

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sanangelo said:

VFR only means there are no instrument approaches there that are certified. You can operate a control tower at a VFR airport, and I read elsewhere that part of the US deployment of 6000 troops there included air traffic controllers.

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12th Man said:

I will guarantee there are USAF combat controllers embedded with our forces at Kabul right now. Guaranteed.

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Guaranteed, indeed.

LostInLA07 said:

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Because his attempts to change the narrative failed and his ABC interview was a disaster, so he needs to hide out while his propaganda team regroups.

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QUICK!!!

Activate "white bald dude in redneck truck with bomb" asset

US soldiers and Taliban fighters are talking with each other in Kabul. #Afganisthan pic.twitter.com/tFWR0Aypd7

— Aslaan :) (@The_aslaan) August 19, 2021

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TChaney said:

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US soldiers and Taliban fighters are talking with each other in Kabul. #Afganisthan pic.twitter.com/tFWR0Aypd7

— Aslaan :) (@The_aslaan) August 19, 2021

Loading full tweet…

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What do they have in common? Maybe they are talking about much govt leaders suck and abuse their sacrifices?

Someone might have access to a better tracker site, but found this on Flightaware. Interesting flight path for MOJO avoiding Iran.