On the automotive board, we were discussing the Ford Lightning. Taking this to the politics board for the Hydrocarbon fuel vs. alternative fuel politicians gone wild edition. Hope people will have a good discussion.

My position in a nutshell:
People are either ignoring what is happening around them, or they collectively support the fast moving regulations away from petro powered transportation. I believe is more of the former than the latter, but either way; times are a changing. I also am hoping that I am wrong about the rapid movement.

I've made my living mostly in Oil and Gas production. I left just in time and am in a different industry.

Last post
Ford Lightning

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aggieforester05 said:

I'll leave the political point to say that respectfully I vehemently disagree with your assessment on so many levels that I agree that it's best to leave it to forum 16. So in an effort to prevent derailing this thread let's try to leave the politics out of further discussion unless it relates specifically to EVs (ex. Subsidies for purchase of the lightning).

That being said, liquid hydrocarbons are going nowhere anytime soon, unless we plan to eliminate air travel, most interstate commerce, plastics, cars for people that can't afford EVs. We'd also need to revolutionarily increase our power generation and storage overnight. The former would be unimaginably expensive and the political will to do so would be lacking. The latter is not technologically plausible without huge leaps in scientific discovery.

I'm certainly glad that we're getting some awesome options for alternative powered vehicles including electric and hybrid. Gas powered cars will be around for a long time coming and I think we'll find that a mixture of the two will be a good thing. Over time market forces will slowly erode the need for liquid hydrocarbons to fuel personal vehicles and that will be good and bad in different ways as far as environmental concerns.

As far as the lightning, I think it's going to make a great vehicle for local use, but for those of us whose truck is their primary travel vehicle, it's not feasible. I do like the idea of the torque and the simplicity of the electric motor powertrain from the perspective of someone with a heavy foot. I will miss the sound and feel of the gas engines, especially supercharged V8s like the Gen 2 lightning had.

I know it's not a popular opinion, because the fake noise crowd is very vocal (no pun intended), but I do hope that someday sporty vehicles will be able to accurately simulate that excitement of the gasoline era beasts. Say for example, your car can enter a mode where it has a transmission lever and pedal that can accurately simulate a manual transmission. It may even simulate accurately the sound, vibrations and feel of our favorite ICE powertrains. Your car could feel like a C6 ZR1 when you want it to and then be able to put it into autopilot and cruise like the quietest Tesla when in you're in that kind of mood. The possibilities are endless and I hope things don't go the way of boring soulless appliances that do everything for you with no excitement.

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I'm seeing the regulators, legislators and people at large choosing to close down petro Exploration and Productions. I would prefer to be wrong on this.

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We'd also need to revolutionary increase our power generation and storage overnight.

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Engineering and science does not seem to get the way of the legislators. Once again, I agree but stuff is moving faster than I thought.

Air travel, sea shipping and commercial ground are mostly powered by diesel. Am hoping we'll be smart enough to leave that alone mostly.

Does anyone know if electric car batteries are like the batteries in say like an iPhone? In which after a couple of years the charge doesn't last nearly as long as it seems to as it did when you first got it?

Referencing the automotive thread: What I disagreed with was "that we collectively voted to move away from Hydrocarbons" based on the outcome of the 2020 presidential election. That is far from reality based on the very close nature of the 2020 election, when broken down to the margins in swing states that shifted the EC.

Even if you ignore the massive amounts of voter fraud that are in the early discovery phase, the margins of victory for Biden we not indicative of any sort of referendum. Republican gains in the house were also not indicative of a referendum in the Democrat's favor. They have no mandate to claim that their victory was anything more than the product of their stranglehold on propaganda, which they pulled out all stops to defeat Trump. If you were to ignore the mounting evidence of voter fraud, the fact that they pulled off winning the presidency and getting the Senate to 50/50 is nothing short of a miracle. It's a political fluke/outlier that bucked many historical trends.

Democrat's success in the 2020 election was certainly not due to the public's perception of petroleum products vs renewable energy. That may have played into the minds of some left wing voters, but they would have pulled the lever for the Democrat no matter what.

"We" sure as heck didn't vote to move away from Hydrocarbons, because I would NEVER vote for a scum bag Democrat unless the party went through a complete reformation resulting in a platform that put American interests' first. A far cry from their current platform.

If state legislatures can stop the ballot box stuffing, 2022 and 2024 will be a complete bloodbath for the corrupt Democrats and that will certainly not constitute a referendum on alternative energy products.

As far as the technologies go, there is certainly room in the market for them and we should hope that they gain market share and efficiency over time. I would hope that it is due to natural market incentives and not any sort of government interference that pushes them to the forefront. I'm all for alternative energy sources if they can compete in the market place and are not environmental train wrecks (ex. Cobalt and Lithium mining)

aggiehawg said:

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rgag12 said:

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Does anyone know if electric car batteries are like the batteries in say like an iPhone? In which after a couple of years the charge doesn't last nearly as long as it seems to as it did when you first got it?

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All batteries are like that, last I heard.

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You'd think you'd hear it then as major gripe among ev owners. Granted I don't know many

I'll start paying attention when they offer a truck to haul a 42' 5th wheel or a 28' loaded stock trailer for 10-12 hours at an average of 65 mph (counting stops for refueling/recharging) that is just as economical as the option for that today. They will need to depart day after day as well.

Edit to add:
When this happen AND IF the batteries are easily interchangeable like my Milwaukee 18 Volt collection and the cars themselves are cheap if purchased without a battery, I'll raid an eyebrow.

coolerguy12 said:

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You're telling me when you're taking the family camping you don't like to stop for 30 min every hour and a half? That sounds great to get the kids to finally be quiet and nap right when it's time to pull off for a recharge.

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I doubt anyone who takes their kids camping often, if at all, would use an EV for that purpose.

The wife may have plug-buggy for local trips. Not an EV for longer range and more remote locations.

Let's see when KOA offers quick charge facilities at their locations.

I cant wait to see what they come up with for my situation.

I drive between 150-300 miles a day
3-4 days a week, i pull a goose neck trailer weighing anywhere from 2 to 8 tons. I once pulled a 15 ton trailer. Would not recommend, btw.
I use 4 wheel drive every other week

rgag12 said:

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aggiehawg said:

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rgag12 said:

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Does anyone know if electric car batteries are like the batteries in say like an iPhone? In which after a couple of years the charge doesn't last nearly as long as it seems to as it did when you first got it?

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All batteries are like that, last I heard.

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You'd think you'd hear it then as major gripe among ev owners. Granted I don't know many

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It is. That's the most often cited reason for the 15% of EV owners going back to gas powered for their next vehicle.

Agthatbuilds said:

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I cant wait to see what they come up with for my situation.

I drive between 150-300 miles a day
3-4 days a week, i pull a goose neck trailer weighing anywhere from 2 to 8 tons. I once pulled a 15 ton trailer. Would not recommend, btw.
I use 4 wheel drive every other week

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That doesn't sound like the truck for you. Also I'm sure you know the typical truck owner doesn't drive anywhere near that much

Something tells me you were pulling a flatbed with a D5G/K on it or something.

aggiehawg said:

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coolerguy12 said:

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You're telling me when you're taking the family camping you don't like to stop for 30 min every hour and a half? That sounds great to get the kids to finally be quiet and nap right when it's time to pull off for a recharge.

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I doubt anyone who takes their kids camping often, if at all, would use an EV for that purpose.

The wife may have plug-buggy for local trips. Not an EV for longer range and more remote locations.

Let's see when KOA offers quick charge facilities at their locations.

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My next RV is a 450 HP diesel pusher with on onboard Onan 10KW generator.

EV's will be able to plug into me!

aggiehawg said:

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rgag12 said:

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aggiehawg said:

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rgag12 said:

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Does anyone know if electric car batteries are like the batteries in say like an iPhone? In which after a couple of years the charge doesn't last nearly as long as it seems to as it did when you first got it?

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All batteries are like that, last I heard.

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You'd think you'd hear it then as major gripe among ev owners. Granted I don't know many

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It is. That's the most often cited reason for the 15% of EV owners going back to gas powered for their next vehicle.

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I thought it was more to do with the hassle with charging itself, not the battery deteriorating

https://www.businessinsider.com/electric-car-owners-switching-gas-charging-a-hassle-study-2021-4

rgag12 said:

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aggiehawg said:

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rgag12 said:

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Does anyone know if electric car batteries are like the batteries in say like an iPhone? In which after a couple of years the charge doesn't last nearly as long as it seems to as it did when you first got it?

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All batteries are like that, last I heard.

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You'd think you'd hear it then as major gripe among ev owners. Granted I don't know many

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If you want a 7 year old hybrid you can get one cheap at most municipal auctions. None of them budgeted for new batteries so they auction them off for pennies and buy new gas ones.

So if we want nothing but vagina cars on the road how long will it take & how much does it cost to replace all gas stations w battery chargers

Will our existing electric infrastructure power the charging for all American vehicles? If not how long will it take & how much will it cost to upgrade

& what will supply this new insane amount of electric required? Coal burning & natural gas?


It's seems to me we're taking quite a few steps backwards just to combat a pretend crisis....

So the question is why? & the answer is because the establishment will get more rich

Chevy LS1 / LT1 > Battery powered Tesla Junk

This part is great

barnyard1996 said:

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aggiehawg said:

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coolerguy12 said:

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You're telling me when you're taking the family camping you don't like to stop for 30 min every hour and a half? That sounds great to get the kids to finally be quiet and nap right when it's time to pull off for a recharge.

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I doubt anyone who takes their kids camping often, if at all, would use an EV for that purpose.

The wife may have plug-buggy for local trips. Not an EV for longer range and more remote locations.

Let's see when KOA offers quick charge facilities at their locations.

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My next RV is a 450 HP diesel pusher with on onboard Onan 10KW generator.

EV's will be able to plug into me!

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LOVE IT!! Onan is the one!

In the early 80s I was unexpectedly involved in a legal case that went sideways. The issue became the effect of EMP on vehicles with computer functions to get SAC crews to the silos in the event of nuclear war. (And the POTUS to a safe space if he were traveling.)

What would EMP do to an EV??

You tell us Petro burners.

Catag94 said:

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You tell us Petro burners.

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Some things might still be classified for all I know. Suffice it to say, EMP would destroy EVs without special hardening against the effects. But then you have the small range, and the probability of zero recharging ability close enough to make a difference if they were hardened.

The only vehicle that was tested and passed was a 1966 Dodge pickup truck. It still ran. The rest tested, did not.