Fightin TX Aggie said:

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For those saying the jury was unquestionably influenced by the threat of riots or the threat to themselves and their families, you may well be right, but there is no way to know that they ever discussed it.

Personally, I would have found it very difficult to set such things aside.

All that said, what was the alternative for Mr. Chauvin? From what person or system would he have expected to get a more fair verdict?

You cannot just criticize the process unless you offer a valid alternative process.

---

1) Mistrial

2) New trial, new venue, strict orders from the court for politicians to stay away and keep their mouths shut

3) Hold politicians that come to the state to protest in contempt of court

4) Warn protestors that protesting outside of the court can be arrested for contempt of court

Not that hard.

Fightin TX Aggie said:

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Wabs said:

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My question: Would've GF died if he had complied with simple instructions? My guess is that it would have been 50/50 due to the way over lethal amount of Fentanyl in his system. What say you?

Nevermind, we have a new hero so all is well.

---

No, he'd be alive. Does that resolve the matter?

Does resisting arrest mean a death sentence? Is there a reasonable alternative to restraining a handcuffed man on the ground with your knee, even after he stops breathing?

Floyd isn't a hero. He was a POS. A drug addicted low level criminal. His behavior was a road of destruction.

But does that predict how a jury will vote? Nah, not under these facts.

---

It may mean a death sentence if you don't tell police attempting to arrest you, that you may have purposely swallowed a lethal dose of fentanyl.

Aggies1322 said:

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nhamp07 said:

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It's crazy that a man kneeling on another mans neck for 9 minutes continuing even after he was basically dead while he was handcuffed is lauded as a non-punishable offense by many "conservatives" on this board.

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I firmly believe that manslaughter is an accurate charge and I believe he should serve the punishment for that. I think its ludicrous that a man who was kicking police officers and resisting arrest, is seen as a hero because he died of a freak mix of effects while in a legal MRT.

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He's not a hero - he's being viewed as a martyr (not the volunteering kind). He wasn't courageous and he really wasn't a person to look up to. That being said, they were going to arrest him for passing a fake $20. Doesn't matter what type of person he was - the fact they didn't have the ability to deal with him without kneeling on his neck for 9 minutes is not how I feel policing should be done.

Think of it this way - if he had been in a mental institution and it came out he freaked out there and died after nurses sat on top of him for 9 minutes, including a couple of minutes after he was non-responsive - we wouldn't have issue going after that nurse.

Didn't have a knife, didn't have a gun, he was handcuffed - there were all those cops on the scene. Eventually - there were people telling him GF was unconscious. He still didn't have the decency to even check on him while he was limp and not breathing.

Quote:

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Think of it this way - if he had been in a mental institution and it came out he freaked out there and died after nurses sat on top of him for 9 minutes, including a couple of minutes after he was non-responsive - we wouldn't have issue going after that nurse.

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From a UK study in a mental hospital

Quote:

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Conclusion: It is estimated that in a 12 month period at the hospital in this study a nurse would have a one in 10 chance per year of receiving any kind of injury as a result of patient aggression. Despite the predominance of verbal over physical aggression, the fear generated from working in such an environment and a difficulty in understanding the causes of patient aggression may motivate staff to manage aggressive incidents with physical methods such as seclusion and restraint on a frequent basis.

---

Link

Quote:

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Didn't have a knife, didn't have a gun, he was handcuffed - there were all those cops on the scene. Eventually - there were people telling him GF was unconscious. He still didn't have the decency to even check on him while he was limp and not breathing.

---

This is what sunk Chauvin's defense. There are so many easy alternatives.

• Turn him on his side.
• Sit him up against the cop car.
• Tell him, "Stop resisting, and we will sit you or or let you stand. We called an ambulance for you."
• Hold him down without a knee.
• Use a knee while he is struggling, but remove it when he stops struggling.
• Cuff his ankles and let him sit there. He isn't going anywhere.

If Chauvin did any of these things, he would be a free man today.

Fightin TX Aggie said:

---

Quote:

---

Didn't have a knife, didn't have a gun, he was handcuffed - there were all those cops on the scene. Eventually - there were people telling him GF was unconscious. He still didn't have the decency to even check on him while he was limp and not breathing.

---

This is what sunk Chauvin's defense. There are so many easy alternatives.

• Turn him on his side.
• Sit him up against the cop car.
• Tell him, "Stop resisting, and we will sit you or or let you stand. We called an ambulance for you."
• Hold him down without a knee.
• Use a knee while he is struggling, but remove it when he stops struggling.
• Cuff his ankles and let him sit there. He isn't going anywhere.

If Chauvin did any of these things, he would be a free man today.

---

So you are cool with putting a man in jail for life because of optics?

dude95 said:

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Aggies1322 said:

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nhamp07 said:

---

It's crazy that a man kneeling on another mans neck for 9 minutes continuing even after he was basically dead while he was handcuffed is lauded as a non-punishable offense by many "conservatives" on this board.

---

I firmly believe that manslaughter is an accurate charge and I believe he should serve the punishment for that. I think its ludicrous that a man who was kicking police officers and resisting arrest, is seen as a hero because he died of a freak mix of effects while in a legal MRT.

---

He's not a hero - he's being viewed as a martyr (not the volunteering kind). He wasn't courageous and he really wasn't a person to look up to. That being said, they were going to arrest him for passing a fake $20. Doesn't matter what type of person he was - the fact they didn't have the ability to deal with him without kneeling on his neck for 9 minutes is not how I feel policing should be done.

Think of it this way - if he had been in a mental institution and it came out he freaked out there and died after nurses sat on top of him for 9 minutes, including a couple of minutes after he was non-responsive - we wouldn't have issue going after that nurse.

Didn't have a knife, didn't have a gun, he was handcuffed - there were all those cops on the scene. Eventually - there were people telling him GF was unconscious. He still didn't have the decency to even check on him while he was limp and not breathing.

---

Who would have thunk it?

cevans_40 said:

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Fightin TX Aggie said:

---

Quote:

---

Didn't have a knife, didn't have a gun, he was handcuffed - there were all those cops on the scene. Eventually - there were people telling him GF was unconscious. He still didn't have the decency to even check on him while he was limp and not breathing.

---

This is what sunk Chauvin's defense. There are so many easy alternatives.

• Turn him on his side.
• Sit him up against the cop car.
• Tell him, "Stop resisting, and we will sit you or or let you stand. We called an ambulance for you."
• Hold him down without a knee.
• Use a knee while he is struggling, but remove it when he stops struggling.
• Cuff his ankles and let him sit there. He isn't going anywhere.

If Chauvin did any of these things, he would be a free man today.

---

So you are cool with putting a man in jail for life because of optics?

---

Optics??

Nope.

If Floyd still died under any of those circumstances, there would be a far stronger argument that he died from an overdose or from excited delirium.

Also, there would be less brutality in the way he was being restrained.

Fightin TX Aggie said:

---

Quote:

---

Didn't have a knife, didn't have a gun, he was handcuffed - there were all those cops on the scene. Eventually - there were people telling him GF was unconscious. He still didn't have the decency to even check on him while he was limp and not breathing.

---

This is what sunk Chauvin's defense. There are so many easy alternatives.

• Turn him on his side.
• Sit him up against the cop car.
• Tell him, "Stop resisting, and we will sit you or or let you stand. We called an ambulance for you."
• Hold him down without a knee.
• Use a knee while he is struggling, but remove it when he stops struggling.
• Cuff his ankles and let him sit there. He isn't going anywhere.

If Chauvin did any of these things, he would be a free man today.

---

He was on his side when he first was placed on the ground pursuant to his request BTW. But he kicked Lane inflicting minor injuries on him. After he still exhibited violence towards the officers, they got out the hobble to further restrain him, which requires the prone position, to put it in place and then roll him on his side but EMS was due momentarily and the deployment of the hobble would further slow down medical aid being rendered.

They did tell him to stop resisting, multiple times, asked him what he wanted, told him to relax, etc. If three officers couldn't subdue him within the confines of the back seat of the squad car, how are they going to get him into an upright seating position without even more force? Should have they just tased him at that point?

And given what we know now, what effect would tasing him with his heart condition have done? Sent him into an arrhythmia? Very likely depending on where they tased him. In the back?

gomerschlep said:

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If I, as a medical provider, had used the same method of restraint for ANY patient, including those who may be violent or combative, I would have lost my license in a heartbeat, and would likely been charged criminally. I would also be rightfully convicted. There was an off duty firefighter/EMT on scene who begged the officers to stop and they refused. She testified at the trial. It's a pretty open and shut case. And they got it right.

---

The restraint used was in the Minneapolis manual. The autopsy should no evidence that the restraint interferes with Floyd's breathing. No they did not get it right:

From the autopsy:

performed on antemortem blood specimens collected 5/25/20 at
9:00 p.m. at HHC and on postmortem urine)
A. Blood drug and novel psychoactive substances screens:
1. Fentanyl 11 ng/mL
2. Norfentanyl 5.6 ng/mL
3. 4-ANPP 0.65 ng/mL
4. Methamphetamine 19 ng/mL
5. 11-Hydroxy Delta-9 THC 1.2 ng/mL;
Delta-9 Carboxy THC 42 ng/mL; Delta-9 THC 2.9 ng/mL
6. Cotinine positive
7. Caffeine positive
B. Blood volatiles: negative for ethanol, methanol,
isopropanol, or acetone
C. Urine drug screen: presumptive positive for cannabinoids,
amphetamines, and fentanyl/metabolite
D. Urine drug screen confirmation: morphine (free) 86 ng/mL

And by the way:
4-ANPP, also known as 4-anilino-N-phenethylpiperidine (4-ANPP), 4-aminophenyl-1-phenethylpiperidine, or despropionyl fentanyl, is a direct precursor to fentanyl and some fentanyl analogues such as acetylfentanyl. It is commonly found as a contaminant in samples of drugs containing fentanyl

https://www.sgtreport.com/2020/07/what-is-a-fatal-dose-of-fentanyl/

Despite the ubiquitous presence of multiple drugs in these decedents, the effects of fentanyl were evidently so strong that there were no statistical differences in the fentanyl level (mean and standard deviation) with or without the presence of these co-intoxicants. The range of fentanyl levels was wide, from 0.75 to 113 ng/mL, with an average of 9.96 ng/mL; nevertheless, the distributions of fentanyl levels were statistically the same, whether fentanyl was the only drug in the toxicology or one of several synergistic co-intoxicants. This suggests that fentanyl presence alone seems to be sufficient to cause death, which are findings similar to those found in Sorg et al., 2016."

Back to the autopsy:

II. Natural diseases
A. Arteriosclerotic heart disease, multifocal, severe
B. Hypertensive heart disease
1. Cardiomegaly (540 g) with mild biventricular
dilatation ( I added this ENLARGED HEART)
2. Clinical history of hypertension
.......
sickled-appearing cells in many of the autopsy tissue sections prompted the Hemoglobin S quantitation reported above. This quantitative result is indicative of sickle cell trait. Red blood cells in individuals with sickle cell trait are known to sickle as a postmortem artifact.
.....
RESPIRATORY SYSTEM: The right and left lungs weigh 1085 and
1015 g, respectively. The external surfaces are pink only on the most anterior aspects, and deep red-purple in all other areas. The pulmonary parenchyma is diffusely congested and edematous.
.....
CARDIOVASCULAR SYSTEM: The 540 g heart (upper limit of normal for body length is 510 g; upper limit of normal for body weight is 521 g) .....
......
Cross sections of the vessels show multifocal atherosclerosis, with 75% proximal and 75% mid narrowing of the left anterior descending coronary artery; 75% proximal narrowing of the 1st diagonal branch of the left anterior descending coronary artery; 25% proximal narrowing of the circumflex coronary artery; and 90% proximal narrowing of the right coronary artery.

You heard what the other cops in his own department said.

Hell, even his own expert admitted that once Floyd stopped struggling, painful restraint was no longer justified.

It isn't the 9:29 that sunk Chauvin. It is more like the last 4 minutes or so.

Personally, I would have voted for manslaughter but against murder. I think Chauvin was terribly negligent.

Aggies1322 said:

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gomerschlep said:

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Jbob04 said:

---

gomerschlep said:

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If I, as a medical provider, had used the same method of restraint for ANY patient, including those who may be violent or combative, I would have lost my license in a heartbeat, and would likely been charged criminally. I would also be rightfully convicted. There was an off duty firefighter/EMT on scene who begged the officers to stop and they refused. She testified at the trial. It's a pretty open and shut case. And they got it right.

---

Do your patients often "resist"? Are they all criminals with a long rap sheep? Medical provider vs police officer isn't apples to apples.

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Yes, and yes. Patients can be combative for any number of reasons. Hypoxia in the brain is a large one. Intoxicants can be another. Or simply mental health issues. There's a wide range of conditions that can lead to someone having altered mental status. I've been kicked, punched, bitten, stabbed, and shot at by patients.

I have never once knelt on their neck until they went into cardiac arrest. And I have no sidearm or armed backup, other then some nurses sitting at a desk in the other room.

---

Its weird, that you, as a medical provider, don't have enough sense to see the difference between your societal role and a cops. Yeah, if you randomly used a MRT on a patient, you should lose your license. If a cop is dealing with a violent, high, criminal they're perfectly within reason to do so. That same MRT had been used some 200+ times with no fatal results in Minnesota. As a medical provider, does that not ring some bells in your head? No?

---

Nationwide I believe the number is ~2,500 times

Fightin TX Aggie said:

---

You heard what the other cops in his own department said.

Hell, even his own expert admitted that once Floyd stopped struggling, painful restraint was no longer justified.

It isn't the 9:29 that sunk Chauvin. It is more like the last 4 minutes or so.

Personally, I would have voted for manslaughter but against murder. I think Chauvin was terribly negligent.

---

I heard what other cops including the Chief said.

Unlike you, I also heard the arguments on motions in limine regarding that expected testimony brought by the defense and denied by the judge. That evidence included statements by the Chief that due to political pressure, he was shutting down the investigation early after a secret meeting with Black community leaders, including the suppression of evidence from the BWCs.

ETA: The original DA on the case, Hennepin County DA, after viewing the BWC evidence and preliminary autopsy results, stated he wasn't sure criminal charges were warranted. The case was abruptly removed from his office and taken over by AG Ellison.

Cahill also allowed two caretaker officers who had zero authority nor involvement in the critical incident investigation to opine as if they were expert witnesses over defense's vigorous objections. In effect two two witnesses were allowed to opine about something they knew next to nothing about. Indeed it would be a gross violation of procedure for them to have been involved in such a critical incident investigation. Out of their lane and highly improper testimony.

Fightin TX Aggie said:

---

cevans_40 said:

---

Fightin TX Aggie said:

---

Quote:

---

Didn't have a knife, didn't have a gun, he was handcuffed - there were all those cops on the scene. Eventually - there were people telling him GF was unconscious. He still didn't have the decency to even check on him while he was limp and not breathing.

---

This is what sunk Chauvin's defense. There are so many easy alternatives.

• Turn him on his side.
• Sit him up against the cop car.
• Tell him, "Stop resisting, and we will sit you or or let you stand. We called an ambulance for you."
• Hold him down without a knee.
• Use a knee while he is struggling, but remove it when he stops struggling.
• Cuff his ankles and let him sit there. He isn't going anywhere.

If Chauvin did any of these things, he would be a free man today.

---

So you are cool with putting a man in jail for life because of optics?

---

Optics??

Nope.

If Floyd still died under any of those circumstances, there would be a far stronger argument that he died from an overdose or from excited delirium.

Also, there would be less brutality in the way he was being restrained.

---

Brutality??

It's almost comical at this point.

If someone pressed a knee into my neck for 10 minutes, I'd consider it pretty brutal.

cevans_40 said:

---

Fightin TX Aggie said:

---

Quote:

---

Didn't have a knife, didn't have a gun, he was handcuffed - there were all those cops on the scene. Eventually - there were people telling him GF was unconscious. He still didn't have the decency to even check on him while he was limp and not breathing.

---

This is what sunk Chauvin's defense. There are so many easy alternatives.

• Turn him on his side.
• Sit him up against the cop car.
• Tell him, "Stop resisting, and we will sit you or or let you stand. We called an ambulance for you."
• Hold him down without a knee.
• Use a knee while he is struggling, but remove it when he stops struggling.
• Cuff his ankles and let him sit there. He isn't going anywhere.

If Chauvin did any of these things, he would be a free man today.

---

So you are cool with putting a man in jail for life because of optics?

---

Cactus Jack on another thread said the sentence for murder 2 in Minnesota is 12.5 years and the state would try to argue aggravating factors. So maybe 20 years, and then with the usual good behavior, etc. and I could see him being out on parole in 10-15 years.

Since you're coming from an it's all optics angle anytime would be too much, but it won't be life unless his life is less than 10-15 years.

That's assuming the verdict isn't overturned on appeal.

BusterAg said:

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YouBet said:

---

titan said:

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Our legal terms are pretty stupid and not well thought out anyway.

For example, manslaughter ---- but in any account of a battle, "slaughter" denotes catastrophic wipe-out--a rout. Not just being killed. Yet we use it for a less crime than murder.

Then there is the overly complicated murders of degrees.

The relevance here is a layman outlook as juror is likely to be a bit thrown off by the dis-connect between what something sounds like it is, and what charged.

Murder for example to most people strongly, strongly connotes intentional -- did it deliberately; not stupidly from negligence. (Which some police killings are)

So when you use murder, it also prejudices interpretation of evidence, if not the forensic minded.

---

Agreed. This has never made sense to me.


Definition of slaughter
(Entry 1 of 2)
1: the act of killing specifically : the butchering of livestock for market

2: killing of great numbers of human beings (as in battle or a massacre) : CARNAGE


Definition of slaughter (Entry 2 of 2)
transitive verb
1: to kill (animals) for food : BUTCHER

2a: to kill in a bloody or violent manner : SLAY
b: to kill in large numbers : MASSACRE

3: to discredit, defeat, or demolish completely


But in American legal terms it means you killed somebody but you didn't mean it?

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Definition of manslaughter

manslaughter
/mansldr/


Noun
the crime of killing a human being without malice aforethought, or otherwise in circumstances not amounting to murder.

Different word, different meaning. It's not that tough.

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Well, it's not, but ok. It's not that big of a deal though. It's just odd and amusing to adopt a word that is used for butchering animals and/or the wholesale annihilation of humans to then mean murder without intent inside the legal system.

It's totally illogical on its surface. Maybe the term "manslaughter" is the origin term though? I don't know.

https://i.imgur.com/rlvDNTD.jpg

Fightin TX Aggie said:

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If someone pressed a knee into my neck for 10 minutes, I'd consider it pretty brutal.

---

No doubt you would.

No proof Chauvin did that either. Or he did it was not for a continuous ten minutes. One still photo does not ten minutes make.

In fact there is no proof Chauvin even knowingly kept his knee in position after Floyd stopped breathing nor after Kueng failed to find a pulse. The evidence strongly suggests he didn't know that.

Fightin TX Aggie said:

---

If someone pressed a knee into my neck for 10 minutes, I'd consider it pretty brutal.

---

Try it. It's actually not that bad. Ever done a squat?

Quick Google: https://www.etymonline.com/word/manslaughter#:~:text=manslaughter%20(n.),%22%20(late%2014c.).

So, it probably extends from something more akin to "manslayer", which set apart killing someone in battle versus murder.

So, the base of the word is likely separate and apart from the base of the word that means to process a dead animal.
https://www.etymonline.com/search?q=slaughter

Not that it matters at all.

But, you know, you learn something new every day.

Jbob04 said:

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nhamp07 said:

---

It's crazy that a man kneeling on another mans neck for 9 minutes continuing even after he was basically dead while he was handcuffed is lauded as a non-punishable offense by many "conservatives" on this board.

---

It's crazy that a thug that takes a legal dose of fentanyl is lauded as a hero by many liberals on this board.

---

Again, just speaking medically here, someone who overdosed on fentanyl would be damn near unconscious, and incapable of being a threat to anyone, despite their size. Hence rendering his method of restraint unwarranted. So which is it? Did he overdose, or was he choked? Or both?

aggiehawg said:

---

Fightin TX Aggie said:

---

If someone pressed a knee into my neck for 10 minutes, I'd consider it pretty brutal.

---

No doubt you would.

No proof Chauvin did that either. Or he did it was not for a continuous ten minutes. One still photo does not ten minutes make.

In fact there is no proof Chauvin even knowingly kept his knee in position after Floyd stopped breathing nor after Kueng failed to find a pulse. The evidence strongly suggests he didn't know that.

---

Appreciate your posts, facts are a complete beat down for the nonsense some people continue to post.

Fightin TX Aggie said:

---

If someone pressed a knee into my neck for 10 minutes, I'd consider it pretty brutal.

---

"Neck" again. Is it ignorance or lying? It was made clear the knee was NOT on his neck in the trial.

Faustus said:

---

cevans_40 said:

---

Fightin TX Aggie said:

---

Quote:

---

Didn't have a knife, didn't have a gun, he was handcuffed - there were all those cops on the scene. Eventually - there were people telling him GF was unconscious. He still didn't have the decency to even check on him while he was limp and not breathing.

---

This is what sunk Chauvin's defense. There are so many easy alternatives.

• Turn him on his side.
• Sit him up against the cop car.
• Tell him, "Stop resisting, and we will sit you or or let you stand. We called an ambulance for you."
• Hold him down without a knee.
• Use a knee while he is struggling, but remove it when he stops struggling.
• Cuff his ankles and let him sit there. He isn't going anywhere.

If Chauvin did any of these things, he would be a free man today.

---

So you are cool with putting a man in jail for life because of optics?

---

Cactus Jack on another thread said the sentence for murder 2 in Minnesota is 12.5 years and the state would try to argue aggravating factors. So maybe 20 years, and then with the usual good behavior, etc. and I could see him being out on parole in 10-15 years.

Since you're coming from an it's all optics angle anytime would be too much, but it won't be life unless his life is less than 10-15 years.

That's assuming the verdict isn't overturned on appeal.

---

You think he'll last one week in gen-pop?

gomerschlep said:

---

Jbob04 said:

---

nhamp07 said:

---

It's crazy that a man kneeling on another mans neck for 9 minutes continuing even after he was basically dead while he was handcuffed is lauded as a non-punishable offense by many "conservatives" on this board.

---

It's crazy that a thug that takes a legal dose of fentanyl is lauded as a hero by many liberals on this board.

---

Again, just speaking medically here, someone who overdosed on fentanyl would be damn near unconscious, and incapable of being a threat to anyone, despite their size. Hence rendering his method of restraint unwarranted. So which is it? Did he overdose, or was he choked? Or both?

---

He actually did fall asleep at the wheel and his cohorts in funny money laundering couldn't wake him. Oh and by the way he had taken meth amphetamine, I think it's called speed balling. The physical exertion from resisting arrest on top of the drug overdose with lungs full of fluid means he committed suicide. The knee did not leave any medical evidence showing his air way was restricted.

Fightin TX Aggie said:

---

Wabs said:

---

My question: Would've GF died if he had complied with simple instructions? My guess is that it would have been 50/50 due to the way over lethal amount of Fentanyl in his system. What say you?

Nevermind, we have a new hero so all is well.

---

No, he'd be alive. Does that resolve the matter?

Does resisting arrest mean a death sentence? Is there a reasonable alternative to restraining a handcuffed man on the ground with your knee, even after he stops breathing?

Floyd isn't a hero. He was a POS. A drug addicted low level criminal. His behavior was a road of destruction.

But does that predict how a jury will vote? Nah, not under these facts.

---

You cannot definitively say that given the drugs in his system though.

Just like you cannot say that Chauvin did anything to cause Floyd's death, especially that he died of suffocation given that his oxygen saturation was 98%.

Ol_Ag_02 said:

---

That's a lot of words to say the average American is too stupid to comprehend basic science being spoon fed to them at a fifth grade level.

This country would be a hell of a lot better place if only net tax payers got a vote. It's the exact reason my kids don't get to be involved in my investment portfolio. They bring nothing to the table.

---

You also have to remember that jurors are made up, generally speaking, of the lowest common denominator in terms of intelligence. Lawyers go out of their way to strike those that can think logically, ask questions, comprehend....because those folks are not easily swayed one way or another.

Now, you could argue that in this case the defense lawyer would want people that can comprehend medical terminology and what not, because it would help their cause. But those are going to be the first people that the prosecution is going to strike from the pool.

Eventually you get down to 12 that both lawyers agree are easily swayed, who didn't fight to get out of jury duty in the first place, or who want to be on the jury because they have an agenda.

WHOOP!'91 said:

---

Fightin TX Aggie said:

---

If someone pressed a knee into my neck for 10 minutes, I'd consider it pretty brutal.

---

"Neck" again. Is it ignorance or lying? It was made clear the knee was NOT on his neck in the trial.

---

Sorry, I know the knee came off the neck late, after the ambulance arrived, but I saw knee on the neck through most of the video.

Maybe I didn't watch closely enough.

Either way, knee on the back wasn't necessary after the guy is unconscious.

Quote:

---

Again, just speaking medically here, someone who overdosed on fentanyl would be damn near unconscious, and incapable of being a threat to anyone, despite their size. Hence rendering his method of restraint unwarranted. So which is it? Did he overdose, or was he choked? Or both?

---

You know not whereof you speak.

You cannot just dismiss the level of methamphetamine in his system. Nor even the suboxone. The pill found in the squad car was partially dissolved and tested positive for Floyd's DNA through a saliva test. For the reading impaired, that means it was in his mouth before he was cuffed, some 16-17 minutes before.

The two pills found inside the SUV also analyzed were a powerful combo of methamphetamine and fentanyl The same type of pills that Floyd's GF testified she thought she was going to die from being jittery and unable to sleep after taking them a few months earlier. And that the source for those pills was the same guy sitting in the front seat of the SUV. Can't draw a straighter line than that. And the drug dealer took the 5th and refused to testify. But the other passenger did testify. She said Floyd was nodding off and asleep just moments before the police arrives. She even said she had partially roused him by telling him to wake up, the cops were there.

She's also on BWC video watching Floyd fighting with the cops and saying, "WTF he doin'? Why is he fightin' with them? Oh he going to jail now!"

Floyd has a habit of throwing drugs into his mouth when approached by the police, as the very partial video of his May 2019 arrest showed. He was taken to the hospital for a possible overdose then as well.

He did OD in March 2020 and was in the hospital for five days. His GF took him the hospital because he was doubled over in pain in his stomach, as he told her.

gomerschlep said:

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Ol_Ag_02 said:

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That's a lot of words to say the average American is too stupid to comprehend basic science being spoon fed to them at a fifth grade level.

This country would be a hell of a lot better place if only net tax payers got a vote. It's the exact reason my kids don't get to be involved in my investment portfolio. They bring nothing to the table.

---

So you're advocating that only people making over a certain income should be allowed to vote, or serve on a jury?

What's next, being allowed to have kids?

Your fascism is showing, dude.

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No, he's advocating that only those that actually pay taxes should have the ability to vote for the direction of this country, because they are the ones that have skin in the game - they are the ones that are funding the system.

If you pay in $5k in income taxes through your payroll, but you are eligible for $10k in returns through various credits and programs, you arent' a taxpayer - you are a tax reciever. 49% of the population fits in this bill in one form or another in that they don't actually pay taxes, or they get back more than they pay in. Those folks, by definition, should not have a say in how the country operates because they aren't producing a benefit to the country overall.

Kind of like how originally only landowners were allowed to vote - that wasn't because the signers of the Constitution were racist old white dudes. That was because landowners were the taxpayers and the correct mentality is that those paying the bills should helm the ship, not those merely along for the ride.

Your inability to comprehend this pretty much proves his point about the average intelligence of an American these days.

gomerschlep said:

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Jbob04 said:

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gomerschlep said:

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If I, as a medical provider, had used the same method of restraint for ANY patient, including those who may be violent or combative, I would have lost my license in a heartbeat, and would likely been charged criminally. I would also be rightfully convicted. There was an off duty firefighter/EMT on scene who begged the officers to stop and they refused. She testified at the trial. It's a pretty open and shut case. And they got it right.

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Do your patients often "resist"? Are they all criminals with a long rap sheep? Medical provider vs police officer isn't apples to apples.

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Yes, and yes. Patients can be combative for any number of reasons. Hypoxia in the brain is a large one. Intoxicants can be another. Or simply mental health issues. There's a wide range of conditions that can lead to someone having altered mental status. I've been kicked, punched, bitten, stabbed, and shot at by patients.

I have never once knelt on their neck until they went into cardiac arrest. And I have no sidearm or armed backup, other then some nurses sitting at a desk in the other room.

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I bet LEO's haven't been licensed to prescribe drugs or sedatives either, or inject them or many of the other things you do as well.

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I bet LEO's haven't been licensed to prescribe drugs or sedatives either, or inject them or many of the other things you do as well.

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In the MPD, they have to be trained and certified to use narcan in the field. No doubt Lane was so trained since he just got out of the academy but the female officer who is in charge of medical training said that the narcan module was not always covered during inservice training.

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Kind of like how originally only landowners were allowed to vote - that wasn't because the signers of the Constitution were racist old white dudes. That was because landowners were the taxpayers and the correct mentality is that those paying the bills should helm the ship, not those merely along for the ride.

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True. In fact, believe one was a woman landowner in an unusual case, and some blacks too. It was about them wanting those with the correct mentality. They have been proven correct on that point, and de Tocqueville even more so.

Fightin TX Aggie said:

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If someone pressed a knee into my neck for 10 minutes, I'd consider it pretty brutal.

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It wasn't a constant knee to the neck though. Chauvin, and the video shows it, moved the point of contact several times over the course of that 9 minute period. Even the prosecution called it "the neck area" if I recall correctly, which is and admission that it wasn't a case of a knee and full body weight to the neck and choking him out.