Cactus Jack said:

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Cactus Jack said:

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About the airway device. Rewound and saw the picture.

It was a supraglottic airway. Does not advance to the trachea. A size too small means it was not getting a good seal.

Trying to find a good picture to demonstrate what it is. Hopefully this works.



Something else to keep in mind is that these are designed to cause as little trauma as possible and are used by people without extensive training in intubation. They are very soft.

If the ME report or other autopsy suggests trauma to the trachea or below, it likely wasn't caused by this tube. The ET tube put in at the hospital is much more likely to cause airway trauma.

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That being said, some trauma to the larynx area is quite possible especially considering he did it twice. Even intubation for routine surgeries in very controlled, still environments can cause trauma. Again, haven't read the ME reports, but if prosecution is going to suggest evidence of airway trauma (at least above the trachea) I think the defense may have just mitigated it.

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If he used an LMA twice, it won't cause any airway trauma. The only thing that might substantially cause trauma to the airway would be an endotracheal tube. Floyd was a really big guy. He would have a lot of leak with a normal size LMA, you would expect it to have to be changed to a larger size. None of this has much impact on whether or not his airway was compromised by the knee to the neck.

Ah, well. That's less good than I originally thought. And I used caps lock too!

@Kool can you give me some informed info?

Quote:

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I'm expecting the defense to get expert testimony on resuscitating a suffocation victim vs. OD victim, how you do it, tools you use, and how the patient responds.

Typically with suffocation or obstructed airway, you can get the heart going, but the brain damage will occur. I don't know what happens with OD though, other than watching Pulp Fiction. Did they administer epinephrine in the ambulance?

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Can we get back to the meth question where they asked about his pupils dilating? I'm ignorant to the reason for this line of questioning. Can someone explain?

larry culpepper said:

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Good Poster said:

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I'll ask again: after continued evidence piles up benefitting the defense, can someone point me to something, anything, that shows the leg on neck killed Floyd?

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the prosecution's case is far from done.

but Nelson is just flat out out-lawyering the prosecutors so far.

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So the cop is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt then?

aginlakeway said:

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larry culpepper said:

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Good Poster said:

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I'll ask again: after continued evidence piles up benefitting the defense, can someone point me to something, anything, that shows the leg on neck killed Floyd?

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the prosecution's case is far from done.

but Nelson is just flat out out-lawyering the prosecutors so far.

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So the cop is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt then?

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I dont follow your logic with this comment. But, per our discussion yesterday, I will not comment on the cop's guilt.

larry culpepper said:

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aginlakeway said:

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larry culpepper said:

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Good Poster said:

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I'll ask again: after continued evidence piles up benefitting the defense, can someone point me to something, anything, that shows the leg on neck killed Floyd?

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the prosecution's case is far from done.

but Nelson is just flat out out-lawyering the prosecutors so far.

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So the cop is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt then?

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I dont follow your logic with this comment. But, per our discussion yesterday, I will not comment on the cop's guilt.

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OK. But isn't that what this trial is all about?

Corn Pop said:

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NewOldAg said:

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Wasn't the states argument on intoxication levels based on his tolerance levels? So they need to show he used so often he built up tolerance and the "3x lethal dose" was not really "3x lethal dose" for Mr. Floyd.

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Right. Problem with that argument now is that this last witness said he stopped for a few months prior to picking it back up 2 weeks prior to death. Tolerance drops A LOT very quickly. That's why so many ODs happen fresh out of a 30-60 day rehab. It's not unreasonable to think that cops showed up. He thought he could handle it, and just started popping them like skittles.

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I did not know that it dropped so rapidly, thanks for the information. Seems the prosecution has made a few strategic blunders.

Dumb_Loggy said:

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Can we get back to the meth question where they asked about his pupils dilating? I'm ignorant to the reason for this line of questioning. Can someone explain?

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Bravender flipflopped on whether meth shrinks pupils to pinpoints or dilates them is about all I can say. He said it contracts the pupils under re-direct. So Nelson had him clarify. Medically, I'm not sure where that plays into the defense but assume we'll find out soon.

Prosecution asked what the EMT would see when looking at the pupils of persons that overdose, and he said they are typically small or constructed. The Defense then asked what do the pupils look like for someone that overdosed on methamphetamine and the EMT said they are dilated. I believe that was the interaction, and another win for the Defense.

NewOldAg said:

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Ah, well. That's less good than I originally thought. And I used caps lock too!

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Plus, there is an ME report to be discussed. There will be a LOT (all caps) of focus there, I am quite certain.

aginlakeway said:

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larry culpepper said:

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aginlakeway said:

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larry culpepper said:

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Good Poster said:

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I'll ask again: after continued evidence piles up benefitting the defense, can someone point me to something, anything, that shows the leg on neck killed Floyd?

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the prosecution's case is far from done.

but Nelson is just flat out out-lawyering the prosecutors so far.

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So the cop is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt then?

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I dont follow your logic with this comment. But, per our discussion yesterday, I will not comment on the cop's guilt.

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OK. But isn't that what this trial is all about?

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You believe that? This is about the "new" system vs the cop. A system where people will be threatened, killed, etc if they don't come back with the correct verdict. Where black people will never pay for their crimes going forward. I expect that guy that killed his mom (and beat up an elderly Asian woman) to get no bail and set free. That guy will eventually walk.

I really hope these jurors are actually paying attention and connecting these dots and not doing confirmation bias bs

New witness smoke a joint before coming to the stand?

Derek Smith is the other paramedic.

Nm, fixed my audio.

TAMU1990 said:

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aginlakeway said:

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larry culpepper said:

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aginlakeway said:

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larry culpepper said:

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Good Poster said:

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I'll ask again: after continued evidence piles up benefitting the defense, can someone point me to something, anything, that shows the leg on neck killed Floyd?

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the prosecution's case is far from done.

but Nelson is just flat out out-lawyering the prosecutors so far.

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So the cop is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt then?

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I dont follow your logic with this comment. But, per our discussion yesterday, I will not comment on the cop's guilt.

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OK. But isn't that what this trial is all about?

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You believe that? This is about the "new" system vs the cop. A system where people will be threatened, killed, etc if they don't come back with the correct verdict. Where black people will never pay for their crimes going forward. I expect that guy that killed his mom (and beat up an elderly Asian woman) to get no bail and set free. That guy will eventually walk.

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I was being sarcastic.

No way this is murder.

Mines fine. WaPo youtube.

These paramedics sound dumb.

Code 3. So he's saying his computer didn't update? Is that dispatch's fault?

Witness said it was not a welcoming environment when he arrived on scene.

Repeating questions, looking up "thinking", interesting body language.

says it did not seem like a welcoming environment. elevated tones

His pupils were large and dilated.

Not a man of many words

pupils were large and dilated.

Smith told Bravender to get out of there. Load and go. Crowd reasons.

Good lord haha, this guy!

NASAg03 said:

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I'm expecting the defense to get expert testimony on resuscitating a suffocation victim vs. OD victim, how you do it, tools you use, and how the patient responds.

Typically with suffocation or obstructed airway, you can get the heart going, but the brain damage will occur. I don't know what happens with OD though, other than watching Pulp Fiction. Did they administer epinephrine in the ambulance?

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In an arrest, you help avoid brain damage by quickly starting compressions (defib as necessary) and establishing oxygenation/ventilation regardless of root cause of arrest. The primary goal is return of spontaneous circulation.

EMS will follow ACLS algorithms. Basically quickly check for breathing/pulse, start compressions as soon as possible, put on pads, assess heart rhythm (give meds and shock as rhythm indicates), get airway in and get to hospital ASAP. Suspected opiate/opioid ODs can get Narcan, but 2015 AHA guidelines prioritize treating cardiac/airway and giving resuscitative meds per the algorithm. I believe he said he got epi in the ambulance, which is appropriate for asystole and PEA (the two rhythms he mentioned).

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https://www.emra.org/emresident/article/naloxone-in-cardiac-arrest/

• Standard resuscitative measures should take priority over naloxone administration, with a focus on high-quality CPR (compressions plus ventilation). (Class I, LOE C-EO)

• We can make no recommendation regarding the administration of naloxone in confirmed opioid-associated cardiac arrest. Patients with opioid-associated cardiac arrest are managed in accordance with standard ACLS practices.

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"H's and T's" (causes of arrest) are usually checked once you have compressions going, establish vascular access, and are able to follow the algorithms. Because they had the compression machine they could have been doing several things simultaneously on the way to the hospital.

"In a living person there should be a pulse."

What a doofus.

In all seriousness, I'd imagine he's very nervous or just doesn't want to be there. Perhaps both.

Chauvin's knee was on Floyd's shoulder in the most recent image shown by prosecution.

A is A said:

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how is this even a trial?

dude has multiple instances of substance abuse.
pupils were dilated
foam at mouth
no damage to trachea
coroner suggestion drugs in system are beyond lethal dose and would signify OD.


again... how did we get here?

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We shouldn't be here ... but we are.