More like Starship 4.0 sn125

Don't we have a starlink launch soon? I'm starting to get impatient when we have a week between rocket live streams. And no, watching a cryo test is not the same thing!

They launched one just a few days ago I think. One scheduled for the 12th I think.

https://spaceflightnow.com/launch-schedule/

They put starlink 18 up but delayed 17 for some reason for the past few weeks. 19 is now scheduled for tomorrow.

Wasn't there an issue with that booster?

I think so but haven't seen it reported/claimed as to what it is.

All I'm seeing in print is a weather delay and some kind of safety check on the rapid turnaround. There is some indication that they may launch it 24 hrs after the next one, that both pads are ready.

Was that the one that didn't launch when they were looking at 2 launches in 6 hrs?

Kenneth_2003 said:

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Was that the one that didn't launch when they were looking at 2 launches in 6 hrs?

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I believe so, my house has kinda been in chaos for the last couple of weeks, and haven't been watching closely.

Yes

Landing pad upgrades and the remains of SN9

"mishap investigation" Jeezus.

Oh it landed.... Make no mistake, it certainly landed!

SpaceX should tell the FAA that they aren't really launching prototype spacecraft that fly but really are prototyping a new concreate destruction tool and that the FAA doesn't have oversight.

Mathguy64 said:

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SpaceX should tell the FAA that they aren't really launching prototype spacecraft that fly but really are prototyping a new concreate destruction tool and that the FAA doesn't have oversight.

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Or just declare the starships illegal aliens and dare Xiden to try to stop them.

They may static fire, but I'm not surewith these fronts moving through they're going to get a flight off anytime soon.

I think static fire is cancelled today.

Musk interview with Rogan, again. Not my thing really but interesting he says biggest thing they're working on right now are the heat shield tiles/spacing.

https://www.teslarati.com/spacex-elon-musk-joe-rogan-interview-highlights/

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Over the last six or so months, SpaceX has been gradually expanding small installations of heat shield tiles on Starship prototypes, ranging from vehicles that never left the ground to high-altitude Starships SN8 and SN9. Those tile installations have grown from a handful (4-8 on Starhopper in 2019) to literal hundreds on the most recent Starship completed by SpaceX.

During earlier ground testing and more recent hop tests with Starships SN5 and SN6, some of those ceramic composite tiles actually fell off or shattered, perhaps due to vibrations from Raptor engines or mechanical stress caused by Starship shrinking and contracting from thermal expansion. According to Musk, what SpaceX is trying to determine with those coupon-style tests is how to install a heat shield with tiles that are neither too close together or too far apart.

According to Musk, ceramic heat shield tiles placed too close together will ultimately shatter, break, or fall off when subjected to the stresses of Starship operations. Those stresses include the violent vibrations created by rocket propulsion supersonic to hypersonic travel, as well as airframe expansion and contraction that occurs when Starship's steel hull is cyclically heated and cooled by Raptor burns and cryogenic propellant. In other words, assuming fragile, ceramic tiles are a necessity, they need to be placed far enough apart to avoid all of those possible pitfalls.


On the opposite hand, though, the entire point of Starship's heat shield is to insulate it from extreme thermal stress during atmospheric reentry. If individual tiles are situated too far apart, superheated gas (plasma) produced during reentry will find its way between those tiles, heating up the structure they're meant to keep cool. In the case of Starship, its steel hull is more than twice as resilient to reentry heating than comparable vehicles (like the Space Shuttle) with common aluminum frames, but a few millimeters of steel is still not enough to prevent weakening, damage, or outright burn-through in the face of orbital reentry.

In essence, SpaceX has to "get the gaps just right" not too far apart to protect the airframe from plasma intrusion but not so close together that tiles impact or damage their neighbors as Starship cools and warms.

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Yeah, I guess they do need to get those right, at some point.

Yeah the road closures for today were cancelled last night.

I'm not usually a conspiracy theorist, but it's hard not to notice how much more intrusive the FAA is during Biden than it was during Trump. Is it just me?

aTmAg said:

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I'm not usually a conspiracy theorist, but it's hard not to notice how much more intrusive the FAA is during Biden than it was during Trump. Is it just me?

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You could go back and read over the past few pages we discussed that quite a bit the past month, and I think the general consensus is 'not really.'

At least, that's my take. The local FAA folks down there were miffed about some flight envelope calculations they did for SN8 (weather conditions impact of sonic booms), and then their procedure requires an accident investigation.

They've generally been doing their regular things/following the books, again imho.

And one of the big things they're pushing for is using ALL, or at least majoritively, the same size tiles, which will eliminate the cost issue of having to hand build and install the space shuttle tiles. Not the biggest problem the shuttle had, but one of the major cost/headaches with refurb.

I'm still curious what the about situation/scenario will be, I still think the co cents they've produced of having the cabin come off, and being able to install different "upper" sections to the stage will allow for abort, and more versatility.

I'm not so sure. Space X was crashing rockets left and right during Obama and Trump and the FAA didn't bat an eye. Back then Space X was working to undercut the Russians and enable NASA to launch men from US soil again. It seems they were relatively untouched by the FAA.

Now Space X is practically in direct competition with NASA. Suddenly the FAA has to investigate every unmanned rocket crash in the desert? The FAA has NO CLUE on how to make rockets, engines, etc. If they did, they wouldn't be working for the FAA. The idea that the the FAA is investigating that at all is a joke.

My employer works with government regulators a lot on aircraft manufacturing. And it seems that all it takes is a guy with a wild hair to set us back for 6 months on some BS. The stuff that Space X is going through right now seems all too familiar.

Ag_of_08 said:

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And one of the big things they're pushing for is using ALL, or at least majoritively, the same size tiles, which will eliminate the cost issue of having to hand build and install the space shuttle tiles. Not the biggest problem the shuttle had, but one of the major cost/headaches with refurb.

I'm still curious what the about situation/scenario will be, I still think the co cents they've produced of having the cabin come off, and being able to install different "upper" sections to the stage will allow for abort, and more versatility.

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co cents?

Are you trying to say that it makes no sense not having a detachable upper section?

I'd just recommend you read thru it, or even look up some discussions in various news pieces/blogs about it. Agree to disagree, but I think some of it is also that today, after the Boeing 737Max disasters/blame game, the FAA is organizationally much stricter perhaps in their approvals/hesitation than they were in the past.

Frankly, Biden hasn't had time/focus to really impact it, either. High profile stuff with CBP/immigration etc. have been the administration's focus, not what's going on 5 levels down of FAA bureaucracy in Houston/Boca Chica. As a conservative, I take some solace at this point that the government does not steer much on a dime, and takes a long time to really change anything significant.

Nasa also just...awarded a big contract to help with the lunar program to SpaceX last week, and the idea that the US Government wants them out of business is also not real plausible given that they are the largest single customer SpaceX has had to date, by far.

We're largely uninformed about the paperwork required to certify a launch and equally uninformed as to how/why SpaceX breached it.

It could be that SpaceX has to submit a detailed safety plan for the launch along with various stages of possible failures and their mitigation efforts to prevent collateral damage and then SN8 failed differently. It could be that SpaceX thought that SN9 was a singular vehicle and independent of the engines and the FAA disagreed. Or I could be completely wrong.

Elon historically is not patient. The FAA is enormously bureaucratic. It shouldn't surprise anyone to see fireworks when an unstoppable force meets an immovable object.

The FAA works hand-in-hand with SpaceX on their launches from the Cape and there's not any friction there, it's likely just different from the last time that SpaceX was testing the grasshopper out in McGregor (also keep in mind the grasshopper went to less than a km high for the first few test flights, SN8 went 10km on its first flight).

I don't think the FAA culture could be changed that quickly by any president, even if they wanted to.

nortex97 said:

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I'd just recommend you read thru it, or even look up some discussions in various news pieces/blogs about it. Agree to disagree, but I think some of it is also that today, after the Boeing 737Max disasters/blame game, the FAA is organizationally much stricter perhaps in their approvals/hesitation than they were in the past.

Frankly, Biden hasn't had time/focus to really impact it, either. High profile stuff with CBP/immigration etc. have been the administration's focus, not what's going on 5 levels down of FAA bureaucracy in Houston/Boca Chica. As a conservative, I take some solace at this point that the government does not steer much on a dime, and takes a long time to really change anything significant.

Nasa also just...awarded a big contract to help with the lunar program to SpaceX last week, and the idea that the US Government wants them out of business is also not real plausible given that they are the largest single customer SpaceX has had to date, by far.

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I'm not saying Biden is directing it.. I just said "during Biden". Originally Space X was only supposed to supply and send people to the space station which would free up NASA to do "the cool stuff" (like go to Moon/Mars). It's no secret that lots of NASA people are pissed that Space X is now encroaching on their "turf". However, Bridenstine was a big Space X fan. So all those pissed underlings could do is remain secretly pissed. Now that Bridenstine has stepped down, there seems to be very little holding them back. And on the frontier of space, the FAA and NASA are basically gay lovers.

SN8 crashed Dec 8th. Over a full month prior to the inauguration (and Bridenstine stepping down). We heard nothing about an investigation for that entire month. Then on Feb 2 the FAA suddenly holds up SN9 based on a violation that happened on SN8? And now those dumbasses are supposedly investigating SN9 when they have 0.1% of the knowledge of Space X on the topic? Sorry, I'm not buying it.

I think somebody has a wild hair up their ass and now they are free to act on it.

I've filed a freedom of information act request for any documents related to the tests around those dates. Doubt I'll hear anything for a year or so.

Ultimately though none of us have any idea what was in that paperwork. Yes, it's anecdotal, but I have many friends at NASA and they all love SpaceX.

bthotugigem05 said:

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I've filed a freedom of information act request for any documents related to the tests around those dates. Doubt I'll hear anything for a year or so.

Ultimately though none of us have any idea what was in that paperwork. Yes, it's anecdotal, but I have many friends at NASA and they all love SpaceX.

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I suspect those who love SpaceX are younger (people who join because they are excited about space). I'm talking older (management) types who's entire career hinges on getting SLS to Mars. My dad worked there for over 20 years and about 1/4th of our neighbors worked there with him in some capacity. So I know a lot of people too. At first NASA's attitude towards Space X was "aren't they cute?" Then they were mocked (like when they super cooled their fuel and installed landing legs on rockets), then it became annoyance when BFR was announced. I think annoyance went to fear/anger when Space X landed rockets and launched falcon heavy. Then it became clear that space X had surpassed NASA and could easily beat them to Mars.

No, my phone broke the word "concepts" up into that crap. Sorry I didn't catch it on the re-read

SLS has absolutely no path to Mars, and even the mgmt types at NASA know this.

I have no doubt this has at least a sprinkling of vengeance on the part of the FAA, likely independent of the Biden administration itself. They're known to do exactly what they're doing now just to prove a point for everyone from glider pilots on up.

Doesn't help the Biden admin got their fingers caught in the cookie jar when party members openly rebelled against plans that, public or not, were obviously in place to cut much of artemis.

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I'm talking older (management) types who's entire career hinges on getting SLS to Mars.

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Maybe they would consider their career unsuccessful if SLS didn't work out. But it's not like anyone would lose their job, even if SLS is a colossal failure. This is the government we're talking about.

Agree 100%. But there is still lots of emotion at stake. Imagine the morale at NASA if the Russians had beat us to the moon?

aTmAg said:

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Agree 100%. But there is still lots of emotion at stake. Imagine the morale at NASA if the Russians had beat us to the moon?

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They might get there one of these days.