I ready they are taking one of the flaps from SN10 and putting it on SN9.

Don't think they will skip that...

Sigh, among the worst Biden ideas so far; "Let's cooperate with China on space exploration."

https://www.newsmax.com/politics/space-exploration-espionage-rival/2020/12/20/id/1002387/

Great way to have a massive set of issues. Luckily he can't go too far with it, and ESA/Roscosmos are smarter than that

Who cares, China already has icbms. Expanding space exploration (and getting China to foot the bill) is good for everyone.

AgBMF42 said:

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Who cares, China already has icbms. Expanding space exploration (and getting China to foot the bill) is good for everyone.

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If you haven't noticed SpaceX over the last few years, the technology to launch ICBMs isn't the pinnacle of rocketry.

I don't think you have a clue about how espionage works.

spacemanspiff said:

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AgBMF42 said:

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Who cares, China already has icbms. Expanding space exploration (and getting China to foot the bill) is good for everyone.

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If you haven't noticed SpaceX over the last few years, the technology to launch ICBMs isn't the pinnacle of rocketry.

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China isn't incapable of developing a liquid filled reusable rocket.

Collaboration with Russia/Soviets has been good, and they even tried to steal the shuttle design.

AgBMF42 said:

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Senor Cardgage said:

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I don't think you have a clue about how espionage works.

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I have more of a clue than the current president who just allowed the largest cyber attack ever and didn't even say anything about it.

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You are who I thought you were.

AgBMF42 said:

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Senor Cardgage said:

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I don't think you have a clue about how espionage works.

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I have more of a clue than the current president who just allowed the largest cyber attack ever and didn't even say anything about it.

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Huh. First that I have heard that Trump was the employee at SolarWinds who had their MFA cracked.

AgBMF42 said:

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spacemanspiff said:

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AgBMF42 said:

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Who cares, China already has icbms. Expanding space exploration (and getting China to foot the bill) is good for everyone.

---

If you haven't noticed SpaceX over the last few years, the technology to launch ICBMs isn't the pinnacle of rocketry.

---

China isn't incapable of developing a liquid filled reusable rocket.

Collaboration with Russia/Soviets has been good, and they even tried to steal the shuttle design.

---

China is currently building a LF reusable Falcon 9 clone.

They're perfectly capable.... they just try to steal everything they can get their hands on

Ag_of_08 said:

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AgBMF42 said:

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spacemanspiff said:

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AgBMF42 said:

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Who cares, China already has icbms. Expanding space exploration (and getting China to foot the bill) is good for everyone.

---

If you haven't noticed SpaceX over the last few years, the technology to launch ICBMs isn't the pinnacle of rocketry.

---

China isn't incapable of developing a liquid filled reusable rocket.

Collaboration with Russia/Soviets has been good, and they even tried to steal the shuttle design.

---

China is currently building a LF reusable Falcon 9 clone.

They're perfectly capable.... they just try to steal everything they can get their hands on

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Yes, I read something this week about the Chinese aiming for 2025 to have themselves a reusable rocket. It's in their plans.

AgBMF42 said:

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Senor Cardgage said:

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I don't think you have a clue about how espionage works.

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I have more of a clue than the current president who just allowed the largest cyber attack ever and didn't even say anything about it.

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Why are you in my SpaceX thread talking about cyber attacks? Stop derailing.

ccatag said:

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Ag_of_08 said:

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AgBMF42 said:

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spacemanspiff said:

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AgBMF42 said:

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Who cares, China already has icbms. Expanding space exploration (and getting China to foot the bill) is good for everyone.

---

If you haven't noticed SpaceX over the last few years, the technology to launch ICBMs isn't the pinnacle of rocketry.

---

China isn't incapable of developing a liquid filled reusable rocket.

Collaboration with Russia/Soviets has been good, and they even tried to steal the shuttle design.

---

China is currently building a LF reusable Falcon 9 clone.

They're perfectly capable.... they just try to steal everything they can get their hands on

---

Yes, I read something this week about the Chinese aiming for 2025 to have themselves a reusable rocket. It's in their plans.

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Their current fleet of launch vehicles is pretty good, the new spacecraft APPEARS to be ok, and the Long March 5b is a decent system. The reusable one is very obviously taken from the falcon 9 design.

My problem with working with China is two fold. They steal technology hand over fist, and they refuse to share the information about their spacecraft. Even if we wanted to work with them at ISS, they won't share the technical data to make the determination on whether it's really safe to make the approach(everyone else does...). It concerns me that we will be lied to in all the paranoia and secrecy the CCP seems to have about their program.

Also concerns me what we would be allowing access to in their ally north korea

TexAgs91 said:

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AgBMF42 said:

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Senor Cardgage said:

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I don't think you have a clue about how espionage works.

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I have more of a clue than the current president who just allowed the largest cyber attack ever and didn't even say anything about it.

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Why are you in my SpaceX thread talking about cyber attacks? Stop derailing.

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Because it got attention and reactions.

Hes going to be really mad when someone points out the Soviets hadn't really been cooperating with us when their shuttle was built, and its arguably a significant improvement on ours, especially since the launch system could be used for things besides the shuttle( their are a couple of shuttle guys on here with steam blowing out their ears, one is going to tell me about the damage it had on landing..... let's talk about the severe damage sts-1 had when it's SRBs nearly blew the ass end off.....)

Exactly, I have him/her on ignore and just assume as usual he/she is not contributing to any actual discussion.

Back on topic, SN10 looks to be stacked, so hopefully...moving to the pad this week.

https://www.teslarati.com/spacex-starship-factory-sn10-nears-completion/

Note, although SN10 is again now fully stacked, it apparently donated a flap to it's younger sibling.

Minor aside, the first booster is finally ready to begin assembly...and I laugh at their sophisticated inventory management system that is...basically how I manage my garage (black marker to explain why I'm keeping something).

You have to love the heritage we're seeing from the grain bin guys helping them get started lol!! I love when they started writing random messages and weird part names on the stuff visible from the road JUST to mess with the people taking pictures...

I'm pretty sure they will use SN9 first to see if they can make adjustments that will help them with relight. If the problem was pressure in the headers causing oxidizer/engine-part rich destruction, they may just have to bring the tanks up to pressure sooner..... they'll use this one as a procedural test, probably sn10 as well, to give themselves time to make adjustments to vehicles waiting.

I think they will land the first superheavy prototype before the first starship though. The superheavy is much closer to what they've been doing with a falcon, and should be a *relatively* easy process.

Were using the term "easy" in reference to landing a flying building..... gods I love spacex lol

I disagree on SH landing first. It's truly massive and getting it right there might be tricky, plus a lot of forces as it rotates etc. Sure, it could happen, but I suspect one of the next 3 starships will land.

Now, I do think a SH will land before an orbital starship makes it back in one piece.

Elon made some comments I was surprised at, regarding SN8, that the tanks were more full than we realized, essentially. It sort of reminds me of the whole 'marvel' of being able to run a turbo/supercharged engine upside down back in WW2 (think, P-38). No matter the motor type, keeping the fuel flowing/combusting is really important, and in 2020 (well, almost 2021) I think they'll get it figured out even if watching a midsize building vehicle do aerobatics a few hundred feet up is new.

AgBMF42 said:

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Senor Cardgage said:

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I don't think you have a clue about how espionage works.

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I have more of a clue than the current president who just allowed the largest cyber attack ever and didn't even say anything about it.

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Imagine hating trump so much that you're willing to get in bed with the Chinese for rocket engineering.

Ag_of_08 said:

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TexAgs91 said:

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AgBMF42 said:

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Senor Cardgage said:

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I don't think you have a clue about how espionage works.

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I have more of a clue than the current president who just allowed the largest cyber attack ever and didn't even say anything about it.

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Why are you in my SpaceX thread talking about cyber attacks? Stop derailing.

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Because it got attention and reactions.

Hes going to be really mad when someone points out the Soviets hadn't really been cooperating with us when their shuttle was built, and its arguably a significant improvement on ours, especially since the launch system could be used for things besides the shuttle( their are a couple of shuttle guys on here with steam blowing out their ears, one is going to tell me about the damage it had on landing..... let's talk about the severe damage sts-1 had when it's SRBs nearly blew the ass end off.....)

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Soviet apologists always telling us how the commies actually did it better than us, usually relying on a claimed or theorized benefit never demonstrated in practice.

TriAg2010 said:

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Ag_of_08 said:

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TexAgs91 said:

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AgBMF42 said:

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Senor Cardgage said:

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I don't think you have a clue about how espionage works.

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I have more of a clue than the current president who just allowed the largest cyber attack ever and didn't even say anything about it.

---

Why are you in my SpaceX thread talking about cyber attacks? Stop derailing.

---

Because it got attention and reactions.

Hes going to be really mad when someone points out the Soviets hadn't really been cooperating with us when their shuttle was built, and its arguably a significant improvement on ours, especially since the launch system could be used for things besides the shuttle( their are a couple of shuttle guys on here with steam blowing out their ears, one is going to tell me about the damage it had on landing..... let's talk about the severe damage sts-1 had when it's SRBs nearly blew the ass end off.....)

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Soviet apologists always telling us how the commies actually did it better than us, usually relying on a claimed or theorized benefit never demonstrated in practice.

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Whether or not the design is better from an engineering standpoint is really only one factor, and may not even be the largest contributing factor for success. This is especially important when considering state-sponsored space programs.

nortex97 said:

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Sigh, among the worst Biden ideas so far; "Let's cooperate with China on space exploration."

https://www.newsmax.com/politics/space-exploration-espionage-rival/2020/12/20/id/1002387/

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This sounds just like Bolden at JSC when he first became NASA Administrator. He said why do we always have to solve everything? Why not let China build the heavy lift boosters? And he's saying this just a few blocks from where the largest rocket ever built was sitting (or laying) on display. It was already solved 45 years before. Probably by some of the people in the room he was talking to.

SpaceX plans to race remote-controlled cars on the moon in 2021, and has drafted in a legendary Ferrari designer to help

Quote:

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• Elon Musk's SpaceX plans to launch vehicles designed by Frank Stephenson of McLaren, Ferrari, and BMW fame onto the Moon's surface for a remote-controlled car rally.

• The cars will be sent into space on a SpaceX Falcon 9 rocket in October 2021, SpaceX said.

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Blatant Disregard said:

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TriAg2010 said:

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Ag_of_08 said:

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TexAgs91 said:

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AgBMF42 said:

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Senor Cardgage said:

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I don't think you have a clue about how espionage works.

---

I have more of a clue than the current president who just allowed the largest cyber attack ever and didn't even say anything about it.

---

Why are you in my SpaceX thread talking about cyber attacks? Stop derailing.

---

Because it got attention and reactions.

Hes going to be really mad when someone points out the Soviets hadn't really been cooperating with us when their shuttle was built, and its arguably a significant improvement on ours, especially since the launch system could be used for things besides the shuttle( their are a couple of shuttle guys on here with steam blowing out their ears, one is going to tell me about the damage it had on landing..... let's talk about the severe damage sts-1 had when it's SRBs nearly blew the ass end off.....)

---

Soviet apologists always telling us how the commies actually did it better than us, usually relying on a claimed or theorized benefit never demonstrated in practice.

---

Whether or not the design is better from an engineering standpoint is really only one factor, and may not even be the largest contributing factor for success. This is especially important when considering state-sponsored space programs.

---

Most space exploration fans (regardless of nationality) recognize the US space shuttle as at best a mitigated failure over a couple of decades. The design worked, ok, but it was compromised by DoD requirements/politics to the point it was not really...advancing space exploration. That the Soviets 'improved' on it is...not real impressive. Especially so since they basically made their improvement a barn find.

TexAgs91 said:

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SpaceX plans to race remote-controlled cars on the moon in 2021, and has drafted in a legendary Ferrari designer to help

Quote:

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• Elon Musk's SpaceX plans to launch vehicles designed by Frank Stephenson of McLaren, Ferrari, and BMW fame onto the Moon's surface for a remote-controlled car rally.

• The cars will be sent into space on a SpaceX Falcon 9 rocket in October 2021, SpaceX said.

---

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He has a good sense for publicity/propaganda etc. This could be really funny and grab headlines for a bit, on what would otherwise be a throw away proof of concept mission/landing.

nortex97 said:

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TexAgs91 said:

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SpaceX plans to race remote-controlled cars on the moon in 2021, and has drafted in a legendary Ferrari designer to help

Quote:

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• Elon Musk's SpaceX plans to launch vehicles designed by Frank Stephenson of McLaren, Ferrari, and BMW fame onto the Moon's surface for a remote-controlled car rally.

• The cars will be sent into space on a SpaceX Falcon 9 rocket in October 2021, SpaceX said.

---

---

He has a good sense for publicity/propaganda etc. This could be really funny and grab headlines for a bit, on what would otherwise be a throw away proof of concept mission/landing.

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Can Falcon 9 reach exit velocity without expending the first stage?

bthotugigem05 said:

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Can Falcon 9 reach exit velocity without expending the first stage?

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I think getting any payload to the moon is going to require an expendable first stage.

I want to look up the numbers, but I think a non-expendable falcon heavy could do the trick. However, I'd like to see the FH performance where the land the two side boosters, but expend the center core.

AgBMF42 said:

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Who cares, China already has icbms. Expanding space exploration (and getting China to foot the bill) is good for everyone.

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China ain't footing any bill. The way you cooperate with China is you give them everything then foot the bill and get nothing out of it. Are you not paying attention?

bthotugigem05 said:

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Can Falcon 9 reach exit velocity without expending the first stage?

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Probably depends on the weight they are putting there. Some of their boosters should be getting close to the end of their life. Good candidates for expendable missions.

bthotugigem05 said:

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Can Falcon 9 reach exit velocity without expending the first stage?

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Yes - the Falcon 9 can launch a payload beyond Earth orbit with the first-stage in a reusable mode. In reusable mode, the Falcon 9 has similar performance to an Altas V 401 which has launched several Mars rovers and planetary probes.

Learning a lot from this thread, thanks yall

TexAgs91 said:

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Nice, my family and I are in that video!