SpaceX and other space news updates

1,345,240 Views | 15346 Replies | Last: 37 min ago by hunter2012
Not a Bot
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Ag_of_08 said:

That was the most epic kaboom EVER LOL. They came so close to... looked like a bad relight on one of the engines, all that tea/teb( whatever the acronym is) flame at the end.


Definitely don't want to see green flame from a rocket engine. I'll have to go back and watch one of Scott Manley's videos where he explains it, but I think I remember him talking about it being caused by an inappropriate fuel mix. If they had bad pressure from one of the header tanks, it would make sense.

The good news is on watching it again, both engines relit as expected.
TexAgs91
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Oh my god that was epic! This test flight successfully confirmed so many technologies. SpaceX saved 2020.

Just need a little more juice on that landing next time, but it was right on target.

SN9, you're next.
"Freedom is never more than one election away from extinction"
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PJYoung
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TexAgs91 said:

Oh my god that was epic! This test flight successfully confirmed so many technologies. SpaceX saved 2020.

Just need a little more juice on that landing next time, but it was right on target.

SN9, you're next.

Let's do it again next week! Bring us 3 more raptors!
Rockdoc
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Is SN9 due to go next week, or when?
Ag_of_08
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Cactus Jack said:

Ag_of_08 said:

That was the most epic kaboom EVER LOL. They came so close to... looked like a bad relight on one of the engines, all that tea/teb( whatever the acronym is) flame at the end.


Definitely don't want to see green flame from a rocket engine. I'll have to go back and watch one of Scott Manley's videos where he explains it, but I think I remember him talking about it being caused by an inappropriate fuel mix. If they had bad pressure from one of the header tanks, it would make sense.

The good news is on watching it again, both engines relit as expected.


The green flame is from the hypergolics they're using to relight. You should see a small green flame, but with it blowing like that, meant they dumped it in and no relight happened.

They got REALLY close with this one I think. I have a hunch if they had gotten all engines relit, it would have been less kaboom, more landing
Not a Bot
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Thanks for the info! This is fascinating.
VitruvianAg
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PJYoung
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Rockdoc said:

Is SN9 due to go next week, or when?

No schedule but it's ready to go whenever the pad is. I haven't kept track of the raptors on property.
notex
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Ag_of_08 said:

Cactus Jack said:

Ag_of_08 said:

That was the most epic kaboom EVER LOL. They came so close to... looked like a bad relight on one of the engines, all that tea/teb( whatever the acronym is) flame at the end.


Definitely don't want to see green flame from a rocket engine. I'll have to go back and watch one of Scott Manley's videos where he explains it, but I think I remember him talking about it being caused by an inappropriate fuel mix. If they had bad pressure from one of the header tanks, it would make sense.

The good news is on watching it again, both engines relit as expected.


The green flame is from the hypergolics they're using to relight. You should see a small green flame, but with it blowing like that, meant they dumped it in and no relight happened.

They got REALLY close with this one I think. I have a hunch if they had gotten all engines relit, it would have been less kaboom, more landing
Not really, re-lights on this one are not from hypergolics, unlike merlin's (I had a post earlier this afternoon sort of discussing that mainly). Thrusters have those chemicals, yes, but Raptor re-light wasn't the issue. Header tank pressure just didn't get enough fuel to the motors in the last 5 seconds. A lot more will be released/analyzed probably in the next day or so. Was fun to watch.
hph6203
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Engine shutdowns on ascent were intentional. They lost power on landing during the flip. That was a wild ass ascent.

PJYoung
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Came down right on target



YellowPot_97
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So ****ing cool!!
Frok
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I want more, what's the next thing to look forward to?
Malachi Constant
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I had the kids watch it and my 7 year old was like "can I go to Mars in that?"
notex
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Frok said:

I want more, what's the next thing to look forward to?
SN9. Which is stacked/ready. Hopefully by Xmas, but not sure.
TexAgs91
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"Freedom is never more than one election away from extinction"
Fight! Fight! Fight!
Not a Bot
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notex said:

Ag_of_08 said:

Cactus Jack said:

Ag_of_08 said:

That was the most epic kaboom EVER LOL. They came so close to... looked like a bad relight on one of the engines, all that tea/teb( whatever the acronym is) flame at the end.


Definitely don't want to see green flame from a rocket engine. I'll have to go back and watch one of Scott Manley's videos where he explains it, but I think I remember him talking about it being caused by an inappropriate fuel mix. If they had bad pressure from one of the header tanks, it would make sense.

The good news is on watching it again, both engines relit as expected.


The green flame is from the hypergolics they're using to relight. You should see a small green flame, but with it blowing like that, meant they dumped it in and no relight happened.

They got REALLY close with this one I think. I have a hunch if they had gotten all engines relit, it would have been less kaboom, more landing
Not really, re-lights on this one are not from hypergolics, unlike merlin's (I had a post earlier this afternoon sort of discussing that mainly). Thrusters have those chemicals, yes, but Raptor re-light wasn't the issue. Header tank pressure just didn't get enough fuel to the motors in the last 5 seconds. A lot more will be released/analyzed probably in the next day or so. Was fun to watch.


To add on, I found a great Manley video that explains it. Fast forward to the 6:12 mark. The green exhaust is caused by a pyrophoric ignition fuel (triethylborane) that mixes with the primary fuel (methane/LOX) on startup. Boron burns green. So the engine started up but didn't have enough pressure pushing the primary fuel into the system, so it stayed green instead of turning the bluish/clear you'd see from methane.

Ag_of_08
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Pyrophoric is what I was trying to think of , not hypergolic.
Ag_of_08
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Scott's video is out. Boy i misjudged this one...

I hadn't seen the "it's coming right for us" view, holy hell....



This...this was what marvin meant by an "earth shattering kaboom"
TexAgs91
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SN1 to SN8

"Freedom is never more than one election away from extinction"
Fight! Fight! Fight!
TexAgs91
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"Freedom is never more than one election away from extinction"
Fight! Fight! Fight!
Rapier108
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PJYoung
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TexAgs91
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Here's some aerial footage of the Boca Chica site including several Starships in various stages of construction (with a painted one as well) and the debris on the landing pad.


"Freedom is never more than one election away from extinction"
Fight! Fight! Fight!
bthotugigem05
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Thinking of driving down this afternoon, depending on how quickly they remove the debris, no road closures tomorrow from what I've seen.
aTmAg
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Rapier108 said:


This rocket was rolled out to the pad on Nov 15, 2019. For comparison, Space X's first starhopper's 150 m hop was less than 3 months prior. So Space X has evolved from that first hopper to SN1-SN8 and that belly flop test (and currently building up to SN-15) in almost the same amount of time that NROL-44 was just sitting on the pad.
notex
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That rocket launch was delayed for so long I'm amazed it finally went off. Delta IV is slated for retirement in the next few years I believe. Impressive vehicle, but sort of a dinosaur. I'm not yet convinced Blue Origin is capable of delivering the methelox new glen motor on time.



Quote:

The mission named NROL-44 finally got off the pad following three months of delays and scrubs. including a pair of last-minute aborts and other delays caused by problems with the launch pad equipment.

The triple-core Delta 4 Heavy is powered by three Aerojet Rocketdyne RS-68A liquid hydrogen/liquid oxygen engines. The second stage is powered by an Aerojet Rocketdyne RL10B-2 liquid hydrogen/liquid oxygen engine.

NROL-44, a geostationary signals intelligence satellite, was the 12th mission for the Delta 4 Heavy. It was ULA's 142nd mission and the company's 30th for the NRO.

Preparations for this launch started more than a year ago. The Delta 4 Heavy was rolled out to the pad in November 2019. The NROL-44 payload was delivered in July.

The Delta 4 Heavy is slated to be retired after launching four more NRO missions over the next few years. Two will be from Cape Canaveral and the other two from Vandenberg Air Force Base, California.
DIV Heavy was a vast sum to throw at...basically Boeing for only 15 launches. The launches alone cost $350-400 million.

https://spacenews.com/cost-of-delta-4-heavy-launches-is-down-but-the-real-price-is-a-secret/
TriAg2010
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Ag_of_08 said:

Scott's video is out. Boy i misjudged this one...

I hadn't seen the "it's coming right for us" view, holy hell....



This...this was what marvin meant by an "earth shattering kaboom"


The Everyday Astronaut guy also commented that the terminal velocity looked super slow as that big tank generates a ton of drag. It's stunning.
aTmAg
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TriAg2010 said:

Ag_of_08 said:

Scott's video is out. Boy i misjudged this one...

I hadn't seen the "it's coming right for us" view, holy hell....



This...this was what marvin meant by an "earth shattering kaboom"


The Everyday Astronaut guy also commented that the terminal velocity looked super slow as that big tank generates a ton of drag. It's stunning.
Somebody calculated it on reddit to be almost 250MPH. So it was pretty damned fast, but the thing is so huge (12 stories tall) that it looked slow.
notex
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Note that, for re-entry, it's still gotta get from 17,500 MPH somehow intact.
aTmAg
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notex said:

Note that, for re-entry, it's still gotta get from 17,500 MPH somehow intact.
I personally don't think this is as challenging as what they are trying to tackle right now. A sideways Starship is a LOT of surface area put in the wind. And the symmetrical shape will make tiles a lot easier to mass produce than they were for the shuttle. I wonder how they are going to protect the hinges of the control surfaces? That's probably not a big deal either, but I'm not sure how they are going to do it.

One thing I wonder about, is that they supposedly chose stainless steel because it's stronger and lighter when cold than composites. However, it won't be cold when it's re-entering. Does that mean they need to "beef it up" to handle that? I imagine they did all the math behind that. So I would assume what they have now would suffice for the stresses of reentry.
bthotugigem05
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SN9 has fallen over in the mid bay, stand must have failed
notex
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Well, first of all, oh crap.



Second, there are advantages and disadvantages to both materials. Carbon fiber is lighter and stronger and doesn't flex. It's also an order of magnitude more expensive and much more difficult to produce in quantity as SpaceX is doing with the steel starships.

The rough scale of thousands of starships launching per year, turn around times of several hours etc., is basically why they switched I think.

60 times cheaper, and pretty great with temperature gradients; the 'old' stuff won over carbon fiber basically.

https://everydayastronaut.com/stainless-steel-starship/

Quote:

Now you might be thinking, "If the entire system is reusable the cost of the rocket doesn't really matter as much, does it?" Well, of course that's true to some degree, but forget the physical benefits of stainless steel, if something is 60 times cheaper, it can really quickly affect your bottom dollar. And SpaceX is, after all, a private company looking to make a profit at the end of the day. Sure, they could spend 10 years developing the most advanced carbon composite fuselage ever that costs insane amounts to produce, but let's look at where that'd get them in 20 years. Now they lost a lot of time of potentially profiting off the development of a fully reusable vehicle, and THEN they'll have a rocket that's even more expensive to build!

We're once again seeing SpaceX not fall into the trap of the sunk cost fallacy. I talked about this quite a bit in a video titled "Why does SpaceX keep changing the BFR" after we saw its third big change in design at the Dear Moon announcement in 2018. But the fact is, this all checks out. It might be easy to think this is a disappointment, a letdown or a compromise, but quite frankly it IS a compromise.

Engineering is always a compromise. And that's not a bad thing.

There's trade offs to absolutely every single decision whether it be time and money, or whether it be a flight profile where it might make sense to throttle down at a certain point, to trade offs in strength and weight of certain materials. There are ALWAYS trade offs!
But to your other point, the flip at the end is indeed impressive, and I hope it reliably works well in the future. However, an upper stage surviving re-entry is always to me more impressive from a sheer engineering perspective (the only human built things to have pulled it off are capsules, I think, and some film parachuted down). That huge mass has incredible forces on it to pull it off, and it must both be controlled, and not suffer any single point of failure during several critical minutes. Aerobatics are pretty visually, but not anywhere near as demanding. Again, just my opinion.
bthotugigem05
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I trust people like you who sound like they know what they're talking about, my interest in SpaceX is way more along the "OMG THAT'S HUGE WAIT IT CAN ALSO ****ING FLY?!" variety
Centerpole90
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