busmasterjones91 said:

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JB, this shows your bias. Its ok, we all have biases, but your statements reveal yours. You assumed that the police are right and good and that the man being detained is bad and has done something wrong. You made up an entire scenario around the black man behaving badly though none of what you state was on the video. You had the man resisting and escaping. There is nothing to indicate that happened. You gave the police benefit of the doubt and gave them a pass on their actions -- kicking an unarmed man who is in a surrender pose -- because what you assumed must have happened prior to the video.

I see an officer -- yes, clearly agitated, but I don't know the reason -- who stepped over the line of good judgment and kicked a man who was -- at that moment -- not resisting in any way. I'd like to think the man was being detained for a good reason, but I can't think of a good reason to kick man with his hands on his head. I hope the officer is reprimanded for his poor behavior and judgment.

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This isn't bias.

It's being jaded due to all of the times we have been lied to through incomplete videos of what actually happened.

After being lied to with carefully edited video clips, my assumption is, automatically, that unless a video clip shows the altercation from the beginning, it has been edited in order to lie about the truth.

That's not bias. It's just not being gullible anymore.

TxTarpon said:

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An image you pulled from infowars?

I think I'd be hard pressed to challenge the use of the NG during a hunt for terrorists responsible for IED detonation at the 2013 Boston Marathon

You must be new.

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An image you pulled from infowars?

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Nope.
Google.

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I think I'd be hard pressed to challenge the use of the NG during a hunt for terrorists responsible for IED detonation at the 2013 Boston Marathon

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I bet. Great practice for the ultimate goal.

TxTarpon said:

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Quote:

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An image you pulled from infowars?

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Nope.
Google.

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I think I'd be hard pressed to challenge the use of the NG during a hunt for terrorists responsible for IED detonation at the 2013 Boston Marathon

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I bet. Great practice for the ultimate goal.

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More photos without context, huh?. At least this one has some fancy wording.

Does it take a lot of effort to be as stupid as you make yourself appear?

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More photos without context, huh?. At least this one has some fancy wording.

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Sorry reading is hard.

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Does it take a lot of effort to be as stupid as you make yourself appear?

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Not anymore than it takes you to insert your head up your a$$.

TxTarpon said:

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More photos without context, huh?. At least this one has some fancy wording.

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Sorry reading is hard.

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Oh, I get it. You're one of those people that takes memes as fact. I honestly didn't know you people actually existed.

SirLurksALot said:

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TxTarpon said:

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Quote:

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More photos without context, huh?. At least this one has some fancy wording.

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Sorry reading is hard.

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Oh, I get it. You're one of those people that takes memes as fact. I honestly didn't know you people actually existed.

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You haven't heard?

The conduct of the cops in case 1 is BS! I hope the ******* has been fired. In case 2, the ******bag being stopped has the nerve to talk about this being in front of his kids! Well...hello!!! You're making a complete, hyper profane fool of yourself is on you. I feel sorry your kids have such a father.

SirLurksALot said:

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There are 800,000 cops in the US from over 18,000 different agencies, that have 10s of millions of interactions with civilians every year. There's been maybe 10 incidents posted on this thread, so clearly this is a systematic problem. I'm curious as to what Walton's solution is to fix this.

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The issues of race extend far beyond police vs blacks. I work in a field with a lot of former law enforcement. Many of them cringe at some of the things that have been shown on video. Few defend the George Floyd incident. There are bad white cops and bad black citizens. There are good white cops and black citizens.

Dig beyond a video and step into the shoes of a black man and see how differently the world sees and treats you. It's not just a cop thing, but the fact that people in power abuse that power sometimes with racist motives should not be news to anyone. We need to seek to understand -- not a strong point in the zoo -- and learn rather than criticize.

busmasterjones91 said:

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SirLurksALot said:

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There are 800,000 cops in the US from over 18,000 different agencies, that have 10s of millions of interactions with civilians every year. There's been maybe 10 incidents posted on this thread, so clearly this is a systematic problem. I'm curious as to what Walton's solution is to fix this.

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The issues of race extend far beyond police vs blacks. I work in a field with a lot of former law enforcement. Many of them cringe at some of the things that have been shown on video. Few defend the George Floyd incident. There are bad white cops and bad black citizens. There are good white cops and black citizens.

Dig beyond a video and step into the shoes of a black man and see how differently the world sees and treats you. It's not just a cop thing, but the fact that people in power abuse that power sometimes with racist motives should not be news to anyone. We need to seek to understand -- not a strong point in the zoo -- and learn rather than criticize.

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One would need to understand the perspective of both sides to get a true understanding of reality.

SirLurksALot said:

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busmasterjones91 said:

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SirLurksALot said:

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There are 800,000 cops in the US from over 18,000 different agencies, that have 10s of millions of interactions with civilians every year. There's been maybe 10 incidents posted on this thread, so clearly this is a systematic problem. I'm curious as to what Walton's solution is to fix this.

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The issues of race extend far beyond police vs blacks. I work in a field with a lot of former law enforcement. Many of them cringe at some of the things that have been shown on video. Few defend the George Floyd incident. There are bad white cops and bad black citizens. There are good white cops and black citizens.

Dig beyond a video and step into the shoes of a black man and see how differently the world sees and treats you. It's not just a cop thing, but the fact that people in power abuse that power sometimes with racist motives should not be news to anyone. We need to seek to understand -- not a strong point in the zoo -- and learn rather than criticize.

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One would need to understand the perspective of both sides to get a true understanding of reality.

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This, there is a reason cops are probably more often "on edge" around whites than Asians. If Asian peeps committed a vastly disproportionate amt of violent crime (esp against cops), I think the experience for some of them might be different. Society and LEO's would rightly profile and make certain judgments...largely just on how they present themselves. Hell, I'm far more leary of a white kid in a 3x white tee and baggy pants than I am a black man in a suit or his uniform from the plant. People and cops can generally spot hoodlums.

In 2019, police fatally shot 999 people. 250 were black and of those 14 were unarmed. Only one of those was not in someway attempting to evade or resist arrest. (Source: Washington Post)

You can argue there is some subjectivity in determining what is resisting or evading. But considering all of the interactions that police have with people, and Black people specifically, it is incredibly difficult to prove that complying is not enough to avoid bad outcomes in virtually every case.

Bobbi Bloom said:

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In 2019, police fatally shot 999 people. 250 were black and of those 14 were unarmed. Only one of those was not in someway attempting to evade or resist arrest. (Source: Washington Post)

You can argue there is some subjectivity in determining what is resisting or evading. But considering all of the interactions that police have with people, and Black people specifically, it is incredibly difficult to prove that complying is not enough to avoid bad outcomes in virtually every case.

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Absolutely. No matter how many reforms we make there will still be some bad and overly aggressive cops. It's just the reality of any organization operated by humans. If we assume that cops are reflective of society, that would mean about 2% of all cops are psychopaths or sociopaths, or about 16,000 cops. We can work to remove these bad cops and improve training and accountability, but we will never live in a world free of police misconduct or mistakes.

It is absolutely moronic to argue that not complying is going to lead to better outcomes. Always remember that the cop is armed and empowered by the state to use physical force to enforce the law. I am luckily enough to have never been in a situation where I was faced with an officer violating my rights. However, I know that if I ever do encounter that situation the best course of action is to comply in the street and fight in the courts.

SirLurksALot said:

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Bobbi Bloom said:

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In 2019, police fatally shot 999 people. 250 were black and of those 14 were unarmed. Only one of those was not in someway attempting to evade or resist arrest. (Source: Washington Post)

You can argue there is some subjectivity in determining what is resisting or evading. But considering all of the interactions that police have with people, and Black people specifically, it is incredibly difficult to prove that complying is not enough to avoid bad outcomes in virtually every case.

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Absolutely. No matter how many reforms we make there will still be some bad and overly aggressive cops. It's just the reality of any organization operated by humans. If we assume that cops are reflective of society, that would mean about 2% of all cops are psychopaths or sociopaths, or about 16,000 cops. We can work to remove these bad cops and improve training and accountability, but we will never live in a world free of police misconduct or mistakes.

It is absolutely moronic to argue that not complying is going to lead to better outcomes. Always remember that the cop is armed and empowered by the state to use physical force to enforce the law. I am luckily enough to have never been in a situation where I was faced with an officer violating my rights. However, I know that if I ever do encounter that situation the best course of action is to comply in the street and fight in the courts.

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This is why I am most worried about BLM.

There will always be videos to fuel their narrative based on what you said above.

Yet, even with the best recruiting, training, discipline programs, etc., you will never get rid of at least a small group of bad/negligent actors that will produce a number of terrible viral videos per year.

So essentially there will be no end to the madness as long as the main stream media/BLM continues to blindly push the narrative of the police hunting Black people.

That's actually pretty scary.

I truly feel like if we could have honest discussions about the disproportionate amount of homicides/robberies committed by Black people and the current skewed perceptions of the police within the black community (based on data), we'd realize that the bigger problems are related to things like black crime, the wealth gap/poverty, education, employment/single parents, etc.

Many of these cultural issues have deep roots in racism but the solution to fix them in 2020 is not to manufacture fake racism. It's only making things worse.

Everything is cyclical. For most of this last decade we were experiencing historically low crime rates not seen since the 60s. When crime is low for a sustained period, then society has a lower tolerance for aggressive policing, because crime is not a problem for most people. As crime goes up, then the desire for more aggressive policing will return over time.

It's no surprise that the areas that suffer from the highest crime rates don't want to defund police. They want more police. After the Baltimore police department pulled back in the aftermath of the Freddy Gray riots, there were self-admitted drug dealers actually going to police commanders and begging for more proactive policing. The violence had gotten so out of control that they feared for their safety more than they feared prison.

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Oh, I get it. You're one of those people that takes memes as fact. I honestly didn't know you people actually existed.

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A Black jogger who was stopped by two San Antonio police officers and wrestled into a patrol vehicle spoke publicly for the time Wednesday morning.

Mathias Ometu, 33, appeared alongside his family and his attorney, Artessia "Tess" House, during a news conference.

Ometu, a Nigerian-American insurance agent who works at USAA, was previously accused of assaulting two officers after he refused to provide officers his name, as was his legal right, and they attempted to force him into a patrol vehicle.

He spent two days in jail before he was released on bail late last week.
LInk

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He works at USAA?! Wonder how long he will now? But hey, corporate wokeness. He might get a promo.

Another startling incident of the perpetrator surviving.

I'm still waiting for Walton to explain to us how we have a functioning society where complying with legal police orders is optional because a tiny percentage of interactions involved police misconduct.

aginlakeway said:

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hedge said:

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Someone who goes to hell and back for cops, feds etc....

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Ok. Who does that?

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In his mind, everybody but him.

DTP02 said:

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Approximately 99.9% of the time, if you comply and don't resist, you will not be killed.

This guy jumped out of a plane at 18,000 feet without a parachute and lived: https://www.warhistoryonline.com/instant-articles/nicholas-alkemade-the-raf-airman.html. Does this anomalous event say anything about whether it makes more sense to jump out of a plane with or without a parachute?

I'm curious what your point is in bringing this up. Do you honestly believe that hundreds of lives wouldn't be saved every year if people would stop resisting police ?

Or would you rather point to the exceptions solely because it fits your narrative better to blame everything on the police than on the people who chose to resist arrest?

Surely you're smart enough to know the numbers right, even though many others do not ?

Is it better that you personally propagate a false narrative that unarmed blacks are likely to be killed if they comply and don't resist, or better if you personally pass along the truth- that complying is overwhelmingly more likely to result in surviving the encounter?

The reason I ask this is because the media, aided and abetted by people like yourself peddling a false narrative, have created misperception in black communities that is incredibly dangerous to them- that that they are at significant risk of being killed if they comply with police orders.

Do you want to actually make a difference? Start with being honest about the risks of compliance vs resistance. Otherwise, you're contributing to a lie that results in people being killed.

What you're peddling here is shameful. Either choose to be better, or don't. But don't continue to spread this misinformation and pretend you actually care about the people hurt by it.

A movement to "comply and not die" could actually take hold and make a real difference. But you'd rather support BLM that has done nothing but contribute death, destruction, and division.

Why in the world would you fools try to fight against an idea that would actually make a difference? Do black lives really matter to you or not? I think where your support lies speaks for itself. You're more interested in looking like and feeling like you're making a difference, even though the results have been overwhelmingly negative, than actually making a difference.

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Clearly and succinctly stated. Thank you.

This whole thing is Left vs. Right.

The enemy of this nation will hire like minded police forces and rule their cities under rule by pointing a gun at them. They will begin to enter homes and take individual's weapons. This is how it will work. Just like with the riots we see now in enemy territory, the govt/law enforcement have taken sides, allowing the enemy to do as they see fit.

This process will eventually grow the antifa/blm to be the "law enforcement". They will annex smaller towns and it grows. People will conform for their own safety. This is why we must not allow these enemy combatants to get away with their thuggery now. There needs to be a plan and it needs to be shared out loud with the American people.

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Ometu, a Nigerian-American insurance agent who works at USAA, was previously accused of assaulting two officers after he refused to provide officers his name, as was his legal right, and they attempted to force him into a patrol vehicle.

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Pretty sure that's not the law, but OK Express News. If the cops had reasonable suspicion to detain him, he has an obligation to provide his name. "Reasonable suspicion" can be based on a description provided by another person.

Hey Walton, how did it work out for Daniel Shaver? A name no one knows because he was white. This cop wasn't put in jail, but instead given full early retirement benefits. Why?

If Daniel Shaver was black, everyone in America would know his name, and instead of 10s of thousands on his gofundme, he would have millions. Why? Because blacks killed by cops matter more than whites killed by cops.

_mpaul said:

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Ometu, a Nigerian-American insurance agent who works at USAA, was previously accused of assaulting two officers after he refused to provide officers his name, as was his legal right, and they attempted to force him into a patrol vehicle.

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Pretty sure that's not the law, but OK Express News. If the cops had reasonable suspicion to detain him, he has an obligation to provide his name. "Reasonable suspicion" can be based on a description provided by another person.

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I'm not sure about obstructing but the failure to ID law in Texas says you only have to give your ID or name/birthday if you've been lawfully arrested, not detained (driving a vehicle excluded, obviously). Resisting arrest is another story.

anaag75 said:

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_mpaul said:

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Ometu, a Nigerian-American insurance agent who works at USAA, was previously accused of assaulting two officers after he refused to provide officers his name, as was his legal right, and they attempted to force him into a patrol vehicle.

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Pretty sure that's not the law, but OK Express News. If the cops had reasonable suspicion to detain him, he has an obligation to provide his name. "Reasonable suspicion" can be based on a description provided by another person.

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I'm not sure about obstructing but the failure to ID law in Texas says you only have to give your ID or name/birthday if you've been lawfully arrested, not detained (driving a vehicle excluded, obviously). Resisting arrest is another story.

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In retrospect, I think you're right. But ironically, as soon as he started fighting back, that gave them probable cause for an arrest, and so he had a obligation to provide his name. Dufus.

[url=https://www.kens5.com/article/news/local/law-enforcement/exclusive-jogger-detained-by-sapd-faces-marathon-to-clear-his-record/273-1e0b88a9-c425-4042-b9b6-d71ee9d70edf][/url]

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Exclusive: Jogger detained by SAPD faces marathon to clear his record

His memories are not the only thing that won't go away. Even though his charges got dismissed, the record of two felony charges still live.

"There is a statute of limitation requirement that those charges stay on your record," attorney Artessia House said. "Generally, that is two years."

House worked on Ometu's case. She said Texas's expunction laws are punitive to innocent people and those who have charges dismissed.

"There's an injustice in that, especially when it comes to a felony," she said.
Felonious crimes could impact livelihood and where one lives.

"These are serious charges," Geary Reamey said. "That by itself is far as a lot of people will need to go to deny him that job or that certification or licensure."

Reamey is a St. Mary's Law professor who thinks lawmakers in Texas should consider reforming its stringent expunction laws.

"I would like to see Texas law changed so that for a number of these situations, like Mr. Ometu," he said. "To where the charges have been dropped, the expunction would happen automatically."

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Yep.
So if you are caught with a bump stock and have charges dropped your record may remain tainted.