dermdoc said:

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MassAggie97 said:

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There are ways to reform the HC industry that does make it reasonable for most people, not that drastic either. The market will find ways if allowed. The last thing we want is nationalization where affordable means heavy rationing of the more costly resources and high taxes.

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"The market" was left basically unfettered leading up to Obamacare, and a vast segment of the American population was uninsured as a result. Nearly 18% of Americans were uninsured leading up to Obamacare, as opposed to approximately 10% now. Again, I'm not touting Obamacare as the answer, but the fact that nearly 1 in 5 Americans was uninsured in 2008 is telling. "The market" will always find away to maximize profits. There is no guarantee that "the market" will have any motivation to answer the problem of 18% (or greater) uninsured. That's just not how capitalism works.

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Totally incorrect. There has not been a free market in health care since the advent of Medicare in I believe 1965. And look at when costs went up.

Shazam.

And edited to add that using 2008 as a reference year for anything is kind of skewed,

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MassAggie97 said:

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There are ways to reform the HC industry that does make it reasonable for most people, not that drastic either. The market will find ways if allowed. The last thing we want is nationalization where affordable means heavy rationing of the more costly resources and high taxes.

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"The market" was left basically unfettered leading up to Obamacare, and a vast segment of the American population was uninsured as a result. Nearly 18% of Americans were uninsured leading up to Obamacare, as opposed to approximately 10% now. Again, I'm not touting Obamacare as the answer, but the fact that nearly 1 in 5 Americans was uninsured in 2008 is telling. "The market" will always find away to maximize profits. There is no guarantee that "the market" will have any motivation to answer the problem of 18% (or greater) uninsured. That's just not how capitalism works.

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There is the root problem. More government certainly isn't a reasonable option.

MassAggie97 said:

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There are ways to reform the HC industry that does make it reasonable for most people, not that drastic either. The market will find ways if allowed. The last thing we want is nationalization where affordable means heavy rationing of the more costly resources and high taxes.

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"The market" was left basically unfettered leading up to Obamacare, and a vast segment of the American population was uninsured as a result. Nearly 18% of Americans were uninsured leading up to Obamacare, as opposed to approximately 10% now. Again, I'm not touting Obamacare as the answer, but the fact that nearly 1 in 5 Americans was uninsured in 2008 is telling. "The market" will always find away to maximize profits. There is no guarantee that "the market" will have any motivation to answer the problem of 18% (or greater) uninsured. That's just not how capitalism works.

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How can anyone who pays even the smallest amount of attention to health care in this country say that with a straight face. The government has been screwing with insurance and health care since WW2.


https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=114045132

"The war economy is an entirely different ballgame," Thomasson says. The government rationed goods even as factories ramped up production and needed to attract workers. Factory owners needed a way to lure employees. She explains that the owners turned to fringe benefits, offering more and more generous health plans.

The next big step in the evolution of health care was also an accident. In 1943, the Internal Revenue Service ruled that employer-based health care should be tax free. A second law, in 1954, made the tax advantages even more attractive."

Pelayo said:

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MassAggie97 said:

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There are ways to reform the HC industry that does make it reasonable for most people, not that drastic either. The market will find ways if allowed. The last thing we want is nationalization where affordable means heavy rationing of the more costly resources and high taxes.

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"The market" was left basically unfettered leading up to Obamacare, and a vast segment of the American population was uninsured as a result. Nearly 18% of Americans were uninsured leading up to Obamacare, as opposed to approximately 10% now. Again, I'm not touting Obamacare as the answer, but the fact that nearly 1 in 5 Americans was uninsured in 2008 is telling. "The market" will always find away to maximize profits. There is no guarantee that "the market" will have any motivation to answer the problem of 18% (or greater) uninsured. That's just not how capitalism works.

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There is the root problem. More government certainly isn't a reasonable option.

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And the answer is more government involvement?

Fool me once, shame on you.

Fool me a hundred times shame on me.

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Donald Trump said in a weekend interview that he is nearing completion of a plan to replace President Obama's signature health-care law with the goal of "insurance for everybody," while also vowing to force drug companies to negotiate directly with the government on prices in Medicare and Medicaid.

Trump declined to reveal specifics in the telephone interview late Saturday with The Washington Post

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Trump said his plan for replacing most aspects of Obama's health-care law is all but finished. Although he was coy about its details "lower numbers, much lower deductibles"

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"It's very much formulated down to the final strokes. We haven't put it in quite yet but we're going to be doing it soon," Trump said.

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"We're going to have insurance for everybody," Trump said.

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"There was a philosophy in some circles that if you can't pay for it, you don't get it. That's not going to happen with us." People covered under the law "can expect to have great health care. It will be in a much simplified form. Much less expensive and much better."

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It all sounds wonderful.








^
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Btw, all of the above are statements made by Trump in an interview he gave in January of 2017.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-vows-insurance-for-everybody-in-obamacare-replacement-plan/2017/01/15/5f2b1e18-db5d-11e6-ad42-f3375f271c9c_story.html

...crickets...

BenColderHere said:

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...crickets...

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No crickets here. Tell me what you want for US health care.

And SA, at least be intellectually honest enough to go back and read what Obama said about health care.

And what is Biden's plan?

Couldn't agree more

dermdoc said:

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So just for a reference point, who on here knows what happens if I take Medicare money and charge an indigent patient less than what Medicare pays out of compassion?

When did the increasing cost spiral first appear in health care?

What happens if I do not collect the 20% Medicare does not pay for out of compassion for a poor person?

How differently is it handled if a Medicare makes a mistake on my reimbursement vs me or my nursing submitting a wrong code? Even if it pays me less than the correct code?

And all of this was in place before 2008 and Obamacare.

Maybe it is me, but that is no free market.

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So can anybody on here except Pelayo answer these very simple questions?

And do not feel bad as I guarantee maybe only about 20% of Senators or Reps could answer these correctly. And yet they vote on health care bills and fundings with zero knowledge.

Obamacare skyrocketed the rates of the self employed. We paid for those people who were uninsured. Anyone that voted for Obama is a thief that stole money from me and others like me to buy votes from those uninsured for their own political gain. Wealth redistribution schemes are theft!

dermdoc said:

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BenColderHere said:

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...crickets...

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No crickets here. Tell me what you want for US health care.

And SA, at least be intellectually honest enough to go back and read what Obama said about health care.

And what is Biden's plan?

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lol

Dermdoc says "no crickets here" and then doesn't say a word about Trump lying for the past 3.5 years about having a healthcare insurance plan ready to present to Congress and the American public.

Smh. In the Reagan-Bush era, R's said they cared about integrity. Now they don't even both pretending.

BenColderHere said:

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dermdoc said:

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BenColderHere said:

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...crickets...

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No crickets here. Tell me what you want for US health care.

And SA, at least be intellectually honest enough to go back and read what Obama said about health care.

And what is Biden's plan?

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lol

Dermdoc says "no crickets here" and then doesn't say a word about Trump lying for the past 3.5 years about having a healthcare insurance plan ready to present to Congress and the American public.

Smh. In the Reagan-Bush era, R's said they cared about integrity. Now they don't even both pretending.

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So where were you when your hero Obama said we could keep our docs and health insurance? And that we would save 1500 bucks a year on health insurance?

I will say this. Reagan talked about integrity. Libs never have said they cared about integrity.

And SA, I miss Aggie baseball.

The government should not be involved in health insurance and obamacare proved that. I can write a health insurance plan on the front of an index card. If you want health insurance, you go buy it. Online, or in person. Pick a policy that suits your needs and write a check or use a credit card. Same way you buy car insurance, homeowner's insurance, renter's insurance, life insurance, disability insurance, etc.

Ag4coal said:

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Weird. It's almost like the media has been completely consumed by something else....

Honestly, i would like to see what it has to say. Although, one of the few things i agree with Cuban on, any health care reform that focuses on using insurance as a tool is doomed to fail

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Thank you, spent over a decade in health care and it pisses me off to no end that folks think coverage equals health care delivery! We need to increase the number of doctors, neither side focuses on that. We need to redirect federal scholarship money towards increasing the number of doctors. We need to make it affordable to be a doctor, cap frivolous law suits. Lower the cost of prescriptions by making it cheaper to field a drug. Encourage HSA's, concierge care, etc. Simply providing coverage fixes nothing

In other words, get government out of health care.

dermdoc said:

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In other words, get government out of health care.

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Yes

MassAggie97 said:

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Honestly, i would like to see what it has to say.

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So, you actually think there is a plan in place, ready to roll out in 2 weeks, that will entirely replace Obamacare? My instinct is that this is just another flat out, plain bald-face lie by Trump meant to deflect a difficult interview question. There is absolutely no plan, not even a rough draft. Time will tell I guess.

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You put words into the quoted poster's mouth so you could bash Trump and fifteen people starred the post.

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Same way you buy car insurance, homeowner's insurance, renter's insurance, life insurance, disability insurance, etc.

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My only problem with free-market insurance would be all the gimmicks. Look at power deregulation and all the strange crap the consumer has to watch to ensure a good rate.

I would want the government to enforce "keep it simple stupid" with plans so the average Joe (low IQ Joe) could still get a plan and not get screwed.

Dermdoc also asked if anyone knows what would happen if he screwed up medicare.

I can answer, but I've also managed Medicare Easyprint for 1000s of docs at revenue cycle management companies. https://www.cms.gov/Research-Statistics-Data-and-Systems/CMS-Information-Technology/AccesstoDataApplication/MedicareRemitEasyPrint

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In other words, get government out of health care.

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Exactly correct. To the degree possible.

This might also mean getting employers out of health care... and this is coming from someone with a good employer supplied plan. Had the feds not given employers a tax incentive to supply employees with healthcare then they likely wouldn't have gotten involved and it would be a more free and open market with more customized options available.

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Sorry. DDP.

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Signel said:

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Same way you buy car insurance, homeowner's insurance, renter's insurance, life insurance, disability insurance, etc.

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My only problem with free-market insurance would be all the gimmicks. Look at power deregulation and all the strange crap the consumer has to watch to ensure a good rate.

I would want the government to enforce "keep it simple stupid" with plans so the average Joe (low IQ Joe) could still get a plan and not get screwed.

Dermdoc also asked if anyone knows what would happen if he screwed up medicare.

I can answer, but I've also managed Medicare Easyprint for 1000s of docs at revenue cycle management companies. https://www.cms.gov/Research-Statistics-Data-and-Systems/CMS-Information-Technology/AccesstoDataApplication/MedicareRemitEasyPrint

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Not valuing education has consequences ... if you can't read and do math, you deserve to be screwed.

Ag_SGT said:

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Ag4coal said:

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Weird. It's almost like the media has been completely consumed by something else....

Honestly, i would like to see what it has to say. Although, one of the few things i agree with Cuban on, any health care reform that focuses on using insurance as a tool is doomed to fail

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Thank you, spent over a decade in health care and it pisses me off to no end that folks think coverage equals health care delivery! We need to increase the number of doctors, neither side focuses on that. We need to redirect federal scholarship money towards increasing the number of doctors. We need to make it affordable to be a doctor, cap frivolous law suits. Lower the cost of prescriptions by making it cheaper to field a drug. Encourage HSA's, concierge care, etc. Simply providing coverage fixes nothing

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It is already very difficult and expensive to sue a doctor. I have defended docs and sued them. "Frivolous" suits don't get verdicts.

I have a case now where docs paralyzed a lady and a pharmacist that killed a lady by filling the wrong drugs.

Just settled one where a doc tore a kids ureter, knew it, didn't tell him, discharged him that same day and he ended up losing a kidney. He is 28 and now has one kidney for the rest of his life.

dermdoc said:

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When did the increasing cost spiral first appear in health care?

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1995 when "major medical" was introduced and supplanted health indemnity plans as the most common

2003 when the government turned hospitals into debt collectors with the tax breaks on predatory billing.

For example: A heart attack costs 35k. The pricing rates it up to 100k plus. Anything not collected between rate up and the actual cost still affords the hospital the tax break on the 65k difference. VOILA.

Your employer sponsored plans WILL NOT save you.

Want to know why deductibles are around $8150? Most people will not hit it until they are hospitalized. But when they are hospitalized, they are in trouble.

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However, our sample of hospitalized people is likely to include most people with large medical expenses: in the Medical Expenditure Panel Survey, we estimated that about 63% of people in the top ventile of annual medical spending (at least $8,433) experience a hospitalization in that year.

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GeorgiAg said:

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Ag_SGT said:

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Ag4coal said:

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Weird. It's almost like the media has been completely consumed by something else....

Honestly, i would like to see what it has to say. Although, one of the few things i agree with Cuban on, any health care reform that focuses on using insurance as a tool is doomed to fail

---

Thank you, spent over a decade in health care and it pisses me off to no end that folks think coverage equals health care delivery! We need to increase the number of doctors, neither side focuses on that. We need to redirect federal scholarship money towards increasing the number of doctors. We need to make it affordable to be a doctor, cap frivolous law suits. Lower the cost of prescriptions by making it cheaper to field a drug. Encourage HSA's, concierge care, etc. Simply providing coverage fixes nothing

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It is already very difficult and expensive to sue a doctor. I have defended docs and sued them. "Frivolous" suits don't get verdicts.

I have a case now where docs paralyzed a lady and a pharmacist that killed a lady by filling the wrong drugs.

Just settled one where a doc tore a kids ureter, knew it, didn't tell him, discharged him that same day and he ended up losing a kidney. He is 28 and now has one kidney for the rest of his life.

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It is also expensive for a doctor to maintain a license and insurance. If the goal is to ensure greater access, not coverage, to healthcare, we need to make it more affordable to be a doctor.

Lol I'll believe it when I see it. The good
Ol "2 weeks..."

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You put words into the quoted poster's mouth so you could bash Trump and fifteen people starred the post.

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What "words" did I put in anyone's mouth? My OP was sarcastic, and I assumed people could determine for themselves that was the case. If a major health care plan is going to be rolled out in 2 weeks, how has nobody in the world heard anything about it? Looking at it again, I felt like my response was pretty tame.

As far as "bashing" Trump....what type of odds do you have on a new plan being rolled out in 2 weeks (actually, now less than 10 days)? How is it "bashing" to call out a POTUS on a complete and total lie? Now we're not even supposed to hold him accountable for his words anymore? People around here lose their s**t over "if you like your plan, you can keep your plan", yet here's the president telling an unbelievable lie about "we have a totally new play rolling out in 2 weeks", and we're supposed to act like "it's just Donald being Donald".

How can you definitively and honestly call it an outright lie until 2 weeks have passed since he made the statement?

Anyone expecting the House to actually pass a bill that is worth more than the paper it's printed on is delusional. Congress has become a worthless tumor on the body of our government.

Those jokers need to sack up and actually do their job: part of our government functioning correctly is having all three branches doing what the Constitution intended.

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How can you definitively and honestly call it an outright lie until 2 weeks have passed since he made the statement?

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Mainly because Trump said it. But also because not a single GOP senator has mentioned anything about it, and it's an election year.

To answer your question, no, obviously I can't "definitively" call it a lie. But if there's a massive, sweeping health care bill that is intended to replace Obamacare rolling out a week from Saturday, it's the best kept secret in the history of American politics.

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Those jokers need to sack up and actually do their job: part of our government functioning correctly is having all three branches doing what the Constitution intended.

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Might want to tell ol' "emoluments Don" to stick to the constitution if you're really that concerned about it.

GeorgiAg said:

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Best way to start to tackle the healthcare crisis is to stop supporting sugar, corn, wheat, and the like. Eat real food. Eat meat.

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Nabisco, Pepsi Co, Coca Cola, Kellog, Keebler, and M&M Mars would like to have a word


And wheat is not bad for you for 97% of the population
Going Gluten free and losing weight does not mean gluten is bad.

It means you are eating less crap and refuse to pay 5.99 for 4 gluten free poptarts

My sourdough or English toasting bread is not unhealthy

halfastros81 said:

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How can you definitively and honestly call it an outright lie until 2 weeks have passed since he made the statement?

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Maybe he'll present a plan in 2 weeks. I haven't said he won't. But he's a serial compulsive liar, so anyone possessing even an IQ of 100 would be skeptical. After all, there's no doubt he has been blatantly lying about it for the past 3.5 years.

BenColderHere said:

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dermdoc said:

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BenColderHere said:

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...crickets...

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No crickets here. Tell me what you want for US health care.

And SA, at least be intellectually honest enough to go back and read what Obama said about health care.

And what is Biden's plan?

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lol

Dermdoc says "no crickets here" and then doesn't say a word about Trump lying for the past 3.5 years about having a healthcare insurance plan ready to present to Congress and the American public.

Smh. In the Reagan-Bush era, R's said they cared about integrity. Now they don't even both pretending.

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Perhaps you prefer "we have to pass it before we read it" type legislation. My health insurance can rock along just the way it is, and I'm cooooooool. They can take their time.

So SA, you a single payer proponent?