This is such a non-story it's incredible it's still in the "news". The primary takeaway is that the democrats have so much contempt for the people that they believe we're stupid enough to think it's a real issue. Apparently there are some that do...even on this board...as demonstrated by the 3 year **** show of Russian collusion lies you gladly lapped up.

The intelligence is RAW. You don't take action on it because you could create a problem where none exists. And you don't need Nancy and Chuck looking over the president's shoulder making day to day calls on foreign policy...that's not oversight it's interference.

BenColderHere said:

---

titan said:

---

BenColderHere said:

---

titan said:

---

BenColderHere said:

---

titan said:

---

BenColderHere said:

---

titan said:

---

Faustus said:

---

Even if there were no intelligence reports out there I'd be shocked if Russia wasn't covertly trying to destabilize our presence in Afghanistan. It's practically on their doorstep and we did the same thing to them in the same country in Putin's living memory.

I'm not sure why there's so much resistance to the idea except for the fact that it was leaked to embarrass Trump politically.

---

There's isn't any resistance to `that' idea. We are enemies - mostly because the admins after Reagan era worked to make it so. I just don't believe Trump serves them.

What people need to remember is we are also their enemy. That's how Great Game works. You have to change the relationship before anything else.

---

Naivete. Putin isn't Gorbachev.

---

No, but he doesn't seem to be Brezhnev either. Certainly doesn't have his power, but Xi does.

Hawg has covered this before, but it bears repeating. The real problem is how public all this is.

---

She is incorrect on that. The real problem is the question you and other Trumpers do anything and everything to avoid looking at.

---

You really can't get it can you? The "looking at" is the insane MSM hype of the `Committee to Un-Elect the President' and company and their take on what Trump is doing. Why should that resonate? The prior admin was totally toxic -- they don't have a great deal of credibility and they have tried for four years to undermine an election. As for "do anything and everything to avoid looking at" is that kind of like you toward all the Marxist enabling, even the attack on your own school, and all the faux riot BS?

Why you can't see that it is your party that is rejected, rather than some defense of Trump's supposed kowtowing of Putin that is just spin, just doesn't click.

I told you, it doesn't matter right now. Its just a vote in November. No big deal. Consider most up there to have betrayed the U.S.. And your party better cool it.

Nominate Tulsi. Not Obamians.

---

Then answer the question.

---

What question?

Everytime you say "kiss Putin's butt" that is a silly interpretation of an external action.

It might have looked at times to idiots that Hitler was kissing Stalin's but he was planning wrath against him all the time. You keep forgetting that anything we are seeing, especially from this spectacularly biased and corrupt media, is purely external. Not the "inside" story. Even Bolton didn't back up your case all that much.

So what is the question?

---

Now you're boring me.

Why has Donald Trump been so uncharacteristically obsequious and deferential for many many years to only one person on Earth, Russia's dictator Vladimir Putin?

---

Ben, you are driven by pure delusion about the reasons you believe people support Trump, and your ability to construct strawmen to destroy in ceremonial orgies of rhetorical splendor is unmatched here. But what you miss is that people don't support Trump for what he says, but for what he does. Most of us hold our nose when giving that support because the guy is not really personally likeable or relatable for most folks. But we do it because the alternatives are so incredibly wrong for America. We are given the choice between Trump or Marxism. The choice between Trump or outright corruption on a global scale. The choice between Trump or having our economy being destroyed over a meteorological fantasy (the idea that we can make a meaningful change in AGW by taxing anything is lunacy...all we can do is kill businesses). The choice between Trump or the usurpation of our constitutional right to keep and bear arms by people who also seem to fantasize frequently about re-enacting the French revolution's worst scenes. What choice is that? It isn't a choice. We support Trump because there is no plausible alternative to lean towards that has any hope of countering the march towards tyranny and totalitarianism that the democratic party has embarked on.

As for his relationship with Putin...what do you not like...what he says about Putin or what he does about Putin? If you want to hurt Russia, what is the best way to do it? Flood the oil market with cheap oil and deprive them of hard currency from oil revenue. Who has been steadfast in support of fracking and our homegrown energy export capabilities? Trump. Who has been against fracking and for carbon taxes and regulations that would cripple our domestic production? Democrats. Which side is trying to help Putin again? Who has been going to Europe and trying to forcibly work them away from dependence on Russian energy? Trump. Who enabled the sale to the Russians of a big chunk of our access to uranium? Democrats...in return for a big donation to the Clinton slush fund. Who is being obsequious to Russia again? Sure, Trump has said nice things about Putin. You know what, a good salesman butters up the person he is trying to make a deal with. The guys who really make the tough deals spend time buttering up the people they want to make a deal with while at the same time backing them into a corner with their pants down. What Trump says about Putin and what he is doing to their economic situation are two different things. Getting them into the G-7 is the carrot to get what you want. It also gives you leverage to hold their feet to the fire on sanctions to various places if they value access to the G-7. It is a bargaining chip, and Trump is trying to make a deal, not be the guy's best friend.

Leaked by NYT........... Hmm. Seems they have a lock on Russia stories.

titan said:

---

BenColderHere said:

---

titan said:

---

BenColderHere said:

---

titan said:

---

BenColderHere said:

---

titan said:

---

BenColderHere said:

---

titan said:

---

Faustus said:

---

Even if there were no intelligence reports out there I'd be shocked if Russia wasn't covertly trying to destabilize our presence in Afghanistan. It's practically on their doorstep and we did the same thing to them in the same country in Putin's living memory.

I'm not sure why there's so much resistance to the idea except for the fact that it was leaked to embarrass Trump politically.

---

There's isn't any resistance to `that' idea. We are enemies - mostly because the admins after Reagan era worked to make it so. I just don't believe Trump serves them.

What people need to remember is we are also their enemy. That's how Great Game works. You have to change the relationship before anything else.

---

Naivete. Putin isn't Gorbachev.

---

No, but he doesn't seem to be Brezhnev either. Certainly doesn't have his power, but Xi does.

Hawg has covered this before, but it bears repeating. The real problem is how public all this is.

---

She is incorrect on that. The real problem is the question you and other Trumpers do anything and everything to avoid looking at.

---

You really can't get it can you? The "looking at" is the insane MSM hype of the `Committee to Un-Elect the President' and company and their take on what Trump is doing. Why should that resonate? The prior admin was totally toxic -- they don't have a great deal of credibility and they have tried for four years to undermine an election. As for "do anything and everything to avoid looking at" is that kind of like you toward all the Marxist enabling, even the attack on your own school, and all the faux riot BS?

Why you can't see that it is your party that is rejected, rather than some defense of Trump's supposed kowtowing of Putin that is just spin, just doesn't click.

I told you, it doesn't matter right now. Its just a vote in November. No big deal. Consider most up there to have betrayed the U.S.. And your party better cool it.

Nominate Tulsi. Not Obamians.

---

Then answer the question.

---

What question?

Everytime you say "kiss Putin's butt" that is a silly interpretation of an external action.

It might have looked at times to idiots that Hitler was kissing Stalin's but he was planning wrath against him all the time. You keep forgetting that anything we are seeing, especially from this spectacularly biased and corrupt media, is purely external. Not the "inside" story. Even Bolton didn't back up your case all that much.

So what is the question?

---

Now you're boring me.

Why has Donald Trump been so uncharacteristically obsequious and deferential for many many years to only one person on Earth, Russia's dictator Vladimir Putin?

---

And you boring me with your failure to understand my point. But let's tackle your question first.

He is a BILLIONAIRE --- there are scores of reasons can think of that he would have been deferential to Putin in the years before 2015 (if you are saying he was). Is that the most there is?

Maybe you should read my stance on the Bolton thread. What I get out of all this is Trump has an almost Pollyanna hope about dealing with foreign leaders the way he does domestic deals. Its not sinister, its a miscalculation. Its very easy for me to believe that his foreign policy is far more ad hoc than the domestic -- especially on things like asymmetric warfare as vs trade deals which are more "civilian" in nature. Its very easy to see the "black ops" part of foreign policy being a stumbling block to him.

Again you are trying to insinuate President Trump serves Putin. If anything, it may simply be outmaneuvered.

https://texags.com/forums/16/topics/3120001/2

What you fail to do is to recognize your party's trajectory is malevolent and the point is simple -- consider them a greater threat to American identity than Russia now. So all this is pointless.

The worst of what Bolton said wasn't anything of what the DNC-MSM is pitching. But it does paint someone not as good at foreign policy as domestic. History may bear that out. That he has self-serving moments like FDR and LBJ and so many others is no surprise. Never been a "letter of the law" person. I don't think they were committing treason when serving themselves, and I don't think he is.

---

Such cognitive dissonance combined with denial, compounded by partisan hatred. It is quite apalling. And as I correctly noted earlier in the thread, the taint and stench on those who still support this regime can't ever be washed off. Allowing yourselves to be naively duped four years ago when he was new and unknown is one thing. But after four years of seeing Trump's dishonesty, narcissism, malfeasance, corruption, his disdain for democratic institutions / our allies / NATO, and his fondness for enemy dictators -- all of that has been visible to you and your ilk, which means in 2020 you know exactly who and what you're supporting. Y'all own 100-percent now the Trumpian betrayal of GOP principles and the shambles it has made of the Reagan-Bush legacy. To paraphrase a line from Shakespeare, "Henceforth it shall be a pox upon your house Republican Party, and all who choose to dwell within it."

BenColderHere said:

---

titan said:

---

BenColderHere said:

---

titan said:

---

BenColderHere said:

---

titan said:

---

BenColderHere said:

---

titan said:

---

BenColderHere said:

---

titan said:

---

Faustus said:

---

Even if there were no intelligence reports out there I'd be shocked if Russia wasn't covertly trying to destabilize our presence in Afghanistan. It's practically on their doorstep and we did the same thing to them in the same country in Putin's living memory.

I'm not sure why there's so much resistance to the idea except for the fact that it was leaked to embarrass Trump politically.

---

There's isn't any resistance to `that' idea. We are enemies - mostly because the admins after Reagan era worked to make it so. I just don't believe Trump serves them.

What people need to remember is we are also their enemy. That's how Great Game works. You have to change the relationship before anything else.

---

Naivete. Putin isn't Gorbachev.

---

No, but he doesn't seem to be Brezhnev either. Certainly doesn't have his power, but Xi does.

Hawg has covered this before, but it bears repeating. The real problem is how public all this is.

---

She is incorrect on that. The real problem is the question you and other Trumpers do anything and everything to avoid looking at.

---

You really can't get it can you? The "looking at" is the insane MSM hype of the `Committee to Un-Elect the President' and company and their take on what Trump is doing. Why should that resonate? The prior admin was totally toxic -- they don't have a great deal of credibility and they have tried for four years to undermine an election. As for "do anything and everything to avoid looking at" is that kind of like you toward all the Marxist enabling, even the attack on your own school, and all the faux riot BS?

Why you can't see that it is your party that is rejected, rather than some defense of Trump's supposed kowtowing of Putin that is just spin, just doesn't click.

I told you, it doesn't matter right now. Its just a vote in November. No big deal. Consider most up there to have betrayed the U.S.. And your party better cool it.

Nominate Tulsi. Not Obamians.

---

Then answer the question.

---

What question?

Everytime you say "kiss Putin's butt" that is a silly interpretation of an external action.

It might have looked at times to idiots that Hitler was kissing Stalin's but he was planning wrath against him all the time. You keep forgetting that anything we are seeing, especially from this spectacularly biased and corrupt media, is purely external. Not the "inside" story. Even Bolton didn't back up your case all that much.

So what is the question?

---

Now you're boring me.

Why has Donald Trump been so uncharacteristically obsequious and deferential for many many years to only one person on Earth, Russia's dictator Vladimir Putin?

---

And you boring me with your failure to understand my point. But let's tackle your question first.

He is a BILLIONAIRE --- there are scores of reasons can think of that he would have been deferential to Putin in the years before 2015 (if you are saying he was). Is that the most there is?

Maybe you should read my stance on the Bolton thread. What I get out of all this is Trump has an almost Pollyanna hope about dealing with foreign leaders the way he does domestic deals. Its not sinister, its a miscalculation. Its very easy for me to believe that his foreign policy is far more ad hoc than the domestic -- especially on things like asymmetric warfare as vs trade deals which are more "civilian" in nature. Its very easy to see the "black ops" part of foreign policy being a stumbling block to him.

Again you are trying to insinuate President Trump serves Putin. If anything, it may simply be outmaneuvered.

https://texags.com/forums/16/topics/3120001/2

What you fail to do is to recognize your party's trajectory is malevolent and the point is simple -- consider them a greater threat to American identity than Russia now. So all this is pointless.

The worst of what Bolton said wasn't anything of what the DNC-MSM is pitching. But it does paint someone not as good at foreign policy as domestic. History may bear that out. That he has self-serving moments like FDR and LBJ and so many others is no surprise. Never been a "letter of the law" person. I don't think they were committing treason when serving themselves, and I don't think he is.

---

Such cognitive dissonance combined with denial, compounded by partisan hatred. It is quite apalling. And as I correctly noted earlier in the thread, the taint and stench on those who still support this regime can't ever be washed off. Allowing yourselves to be naively duped four years ago when he was new and unknown is one thing. But after four years of seeing Trump's dishonesty, narcissism, malfeasance, corruption, his disdain for democratic institutions / our allies / NATO, and his fondness for enemy dictators -- all of that has been visible to you and your ilk, which means in 2020 you know exactly who and what you're supporting. Y'all own 100-percent now the Trumpian betrayal of GOP principles and the shambles it has made of the Reagan-Bush legacy. To paraphrase a line from Shakespeare, "Henceforth it shall be a pox upon your house Republican Party, and all who choose to dwell within it."

---

BRAVO! That destruction of the straw man you built while addressing none of the substance of his post was magnificent! Blue star for you! (Not really...just in my emoji on this post)

Sterling82 said:

---

This is such a non-story it's incredible it's still in the "news". The primary takeaway is that the democrats have so much contempt for the people that they believe we're stupid enough to think it's a real issue. Apparently there are some that do...even on this board...as demonstrated by the 3 year **** show of Russian collusion lies you gladly lapped up.

The intelligence is RAW. You don't take action on it because you could create a problem where none exists. And you don't need Nancy and Chuck looking over the president's shoulder making day to day calls on foreign policy...that's not oversight it's interference a violation of separation of powers.

---

FIFY.

Quote:

---

Such cognitive dissonance combined with denial, compounded by partisan hatred. It is quite apalling. And as I correctly noted earlier in the thread, the taint and stench on those who still support this regime can't ever be washed off. Allowing yourselves to be naively duped four years ago when he was new and unknown is one thing. But after four years of seeing Trump's dishonesty, narcissism, malfeasance, corruption, his disdain for democratic institutions / our allies / NATO, and his fondness for enemy dictators -- all of that has been visible to you and your ilk, which means in 2020 you know exactly who and what you're supporting. Y'all own 100-percent now the Trumpian betrayal of GOP principles and the shambles it has made of the Reagan-Bush legacy. To paraphrase a line from Shakespeare, "Henceforth it shall be a pox upon your house Republican Party, and all who choose to dwell within it."

---

Bah. Txags92 is right. You didn't read or consider a single thing in either my reply or Txags92's rebuttal. You didn't even address the point that even Bolton doesn't support your take. There is nuance to this whole thing and involves the problems when extremely egotistical men in politics are involved (it doesn't raise any other type to that post generally). Instead you built a strawman of your own making. Go ahead and build more if you like.

And that rant coming from a Democrat perspective or defender about "dishonesty, narcissism, malfeasance, corruption, his disdain for democratic institutions" is even more ludicrous.

I just listened to an hour of Thomas Sowell. You know what he had to say about your party's direction?

Paraphrased closely:

About 2016 - Sowell: "Hillary was a known disaster, Trump was a risk. I took the risk."

About 2020: "Biden is a an even greater risk than Hillary was. I fear if he is elected, and especially if they take the Senate, I don't see anything getting better in this generation. And with all that is happening and being said, I have real concerns. Despite all the progress we have made, there is a point of no return and I think that is where we will be taken to. And the biggest losers with such a win will be the low-income communities locked again into the cycle."

"There is so much hanging on this, we are going to be in a lot of trouble if that happens. The Democrats have so many counter-productive policies out there I am not sure the country can recover from it."

Txags92's first paragraph covered the essential point. Hearing that on Larry Elder absolutely sealed it.

I will take Thosas Sowell's warning over that strawman that addressed nothing.

This is a choice between dicey routes either way. We thus far disagree on which one is worse.

Did Putin use the money Obama gave him from NASA or the profits from the Uranium One mine?

Titan: You should pay better attention if you're going to bring up Bolton & Xi, and how Trump himself tweeted on the subject of Xi and Covid in January. Putin has been Trump's financial sugar daddy for decades, but Trump loves all dictators.

Ben's problem is that he can only bang one drum and that's Trump love Putin. And he builds strawmen to support that idea, ignoring anything else that's presented to him.

Quote:

---

his disdain for Democrat institutions / our allies / NATO

---

FIFY. And yep, that's why we like him.

Quote:

---

his disdain for Democrat institutions / our allies / NATO

---

Quote:

---

yep, that's why we like him.

---

^
|
1. Here is a fellow Trump supporter of yours admitting this is one of the reasons why he likes Trump: Trump's disdain for NATO and other US allies. It doesnt matter to Trump and many Trump supporters that NATO soldiers died in Afghanistan fighting beside US troops because the mutual defense clause, Article 5 of the NATO Treaty, was invoked on September 13, 2001. This is the only time Article 5 of NATO has ever been invoked, afaik. Likewise, they don't care that soldiers of several NATO countries plus soldiers of other US allies died in Afghanistand AND Iraq fighting beside US troops.

2. Trump loves to hold photo ops where he can stand in front of his campaign staff's cameras and claim he has great love for the US military. So where is Trump's anger at Putin for paying bounties to Taliban terrorists for killing US soldiers and NATO soldiers?

3. Trump has repeatedly said it is disrespectful and unpatriotic and un-American for NFL players to kneel during the national anthem as a form of protest against the decades long problem of unwarranted police killings of black Americans.

So, titan, if kneeling in protest is disrespectful and unpatriotic and un-American, then what do you call it when a CINC refuses to read the daily PDB during his 4 years in office while US soldiers have been at war in Afghanistan and several other countries fighting and dying for our country?

I call it a criminal dereliction of a CINC's duty and a malfeasant violation of the Presidential oath of office, and an unconscionable betrayal of the public trust he swore to uphold.

Quote:

---

Trump loves to hold photo ops where he can stand in front of his campaign staff's cameras and claim he has great love for the US military. So where is Trump's anger at Putin for paying bounties to Taliban terrorists for killing US soldiers and NATO soldiers?

---

You support Obama who brokered the deal with Putin to purchase the Uranium One mine which gave Russia control of 20% of the US uranium. Also, gutted NASA so he could send them over 18 billion in American tax payers money.

Trump didn't show anger = bad
Obama giving WMDS and money to Russia = good

Are you seriously that dumb?

Quote:

---

1. Here is a fellow Trump supporter of yours admitting this is one of the reasons why he likes Trump: Trump's disdain for NATO and other US allies. It doesnt matter to Trump and many Trump supporters that NATO soldiers died in Afghanistan fighting beside US troops because the mutual defense clause, Article 5 of the NATO Treaty, was invoked on September 13, 2001. This is the only time Article 5 of NATO has ever been invoked, afaik. Likewise, they don't care that soldiers of several NATO countries plus soldiers of other US allies died in Afghanistand AND Iraq fighting beside US troops.

---

Another strawman. Disdain for the organization called NATO does not equal distain for the soldiers.

triplemiller said:

---

Quote:

---

Trump loves to hold photo ops where he can stand in front of his campaign staff's cameras and claim he has great love for the US military. So where is Trump's anger at Putin for paying bounties to Taliban terrorists for killing US soldiers and NATO soldiers?

---

You support Obama who brokered the deal with Putin to purchase the Uranium One mine which gave Russia control of 20% of the US uranium. Also, gutted NASA so he could send them over 18 billion in American tax payers money.

Trump didn't show anger = bad
Obama giving WMDS and money to Russia = good

Are you seriously that dumb?

---

It would appear so based on the level of cognitive dissonance, wouldn't it?

MooreTrucker said:

---

Quote:

---

1. Here is a fellow Trump supporter of yours admitting this is one of the reasons why he likes Trump: Trump's disdain for NATO and other US allies. It doesnt matter to Trump and many Trump supporters that NATO soldiers died in Afghanistan fighting beside US troops because the mutual defense clause, Article 5 of the NATO Treaty, was invoked on September 13, 2001. This is the only time Article 5 of NATO has ever been invoked, afaik. Likewise, they don't care that soldiers of several NATO countries plus soldiers of other US allies died in Afghanistand AND Iraq fighting beside US troops.

---

Another strawman. Disdain for the organization called NATO does not equal distain for the soldiers.

---

And disdain for the other "allies" in the organization being unable/unwilling to fulfill their obligations under the treaty due to their own failure to properly fund their national defense as required by the treaty is not the same as disdain for the troops that did show up to the fight. But nuance like that is probably hard to see through all that Orange Man Bad glaze that covers his eyes.

MooreTrucker said:

---

Quote:

---

his disdain for Democrat institutions / our allies / NATO

---

FIFY. And yep, that's why we like him.

---

NATO is stronger because of Trump's actions. Countries are starting to pay more to come closer to their obligation.

And Trump's comments on them buying gas from Russia while we foot the bill to protect them - FROM RUSSIA - are completely accurate.

It is all hearsay and speculation.

WTF do you do about it anyway? Attack Russia - No, Announce that they are doing it - No bad for moral and gives away sources and methods.

Call Russia and tell them to cut it out - maybe, risking giving away sources and methods.

Also, Did the Al Qaeda need motivation to kill us?

BenColderHere said:

---

Quote:

---

his disdain for Democrat institutions / our allies / NATO

---

Quote:

---

yep, that's why we like him.

---

So, titan, if kneeling in protest is disrespectful and unpatriotic and un-American, then what do you call it when a CINC refuses to read the daily PDB during his 4 years in office while US soldiers have been at war in Afghanistan and several other countries fighting and dying for our country?

---

Efficient use of his limited time to have a career intelligence officer give him the high points instead of reading the whole thing every day?

BenColderHere said:

---

Quote:

---

his disdain for Democrat institutions / our allies / NATO

---

Quote:

---

yep, that's why we like him.

---

^
|


So, titan, if kneeling in protest is disrespectful and unpatriotic and un-American, then what do you call it when a CINC refuses to read the daily PDB during his 4 years in office while US soldiers have been at war in Afghanistan and several other countries fighting and dying for our country?

I call it a criminal dereliction of a CINC's duty and a malfeasant violation of the Presidential oath of office, and an unconscionable betrayal of the public trust he swore to uphold.

---

I am highly suspicious that this type of info was not directly briefed to him. The world over knows that this man does not like to read anything, his staff knows this as well and somebody in there had to walk up to present this info. Otherwise they are terrible at their job.

Even if it was incompetence, the administration has had this info for a while now and time to investigate more, develop a plan of action, and then work with Congress on the implementation of these plans where there support is needed.

That's what a functioning administration does, still more time for this to happen. Will see what the coming days have entail.

BenColderHere said:

---

titan said:

---

BenColderHere said:

---

titan said:

---

BenColderHere said:

---

titan said:

---

BenColderHere said:

---

titan said:

---

BenColderHere said:

---

titan said:

---

Faustus said:

---

Even if there were no intelligence reports out there I'd be shocked if Russia wasn't covertly trying to destabilize our presence in Afghanistan. It's practically on their doorstep and we did the same thing to them in the same country in Putin's living memory.

I'm not sure why there's so much resistance to the idea except for the fact that it was leaked to embarrass Trump politically.

---

There's isn't any resistance to `that' idea. We are enemies - mostly because the admins after Reagan era worked to make it so. I just don't believe Trump serves them.

What people need to remember is we are also their enemy. That's how Great Game works. You have to change the relationship before anything else.

---

Naivete. Putin isn't Gorbachev.

---

No, but he doesn't seem to be Brezhnev either. Certainly doesn't have his power, but Xi does.

Hawg has covered this before, but it bears repeating. The real problem is how public all this is.

---

She is incorrect on that. The real problem is the question you and other Trumpers do anything and everything to avoid looking at.

---

You really can't get it can you? The "looking at" is the insane MSM hype of the `Committee to Un-Elect the President' and company and their take on what Trump is doing. Why should that resonate? The prior admin was totally toxic -- they don't have a great deal of credibility and they have tried for four years to undermine an election. As for "do anything and everything to avoid looking at" is that kind of like you toward all the Marxist enabling, even the attack on your own school, and all the faux riot BS?

Why you can't see that it is your party that is rejected, rather than some defense of Trump's supposed kowtowing of Putin that is just spin, just doesn't click.

I told you, it doesn't matter right now. Its just a vote in November. No big deal. Consider most up there to have betrayed the U.S.. And your party better cool it.

Nominate Tulsi. Not Obamians.

---

Then answer the question.

---

What question?

Everytime you say "kiss Putin's butt" that is a silly interpretation of an external action.

It might have looked at times to idiots that Hitler was kissing Stalin's but he was planning wrath against him all the time. You keep forgetting that anything we are seeing, especially from this spectacularly biased and corrupt media, is purely external. Not the "inside" story. Even Bolton didn't back up your case all that much.

So what is the question?

---

Now you're boring me.

Why has Donald Trump been so uncharacteristically obsequious and deferential for many many years to only one person on Earth, Russia's dictator Vladimir Putin?

---

And you boring me with your failure to understand my point. But let's tackle your question first.

He is a BILLIONAIRE --- there are scores of reasons can think of that he would have been deferential to Putin in the years before 2015 (if you are saying he was). Is that the most there is?

Maybe you should read my stance on the Bolton thread. What I get out of all this is Trump has an almost Pollyanna hope about dealing with foreign leaders the way he does domestic deals. Its not sinister, its a miscalculation. Its very easy for me to believe that his foreign policy is far more ad hoc than the domestic -- especially on things like asymmetric warfare as vs trade deals which are more "civilian" in nature. Its very easy to see the "black ops" part of foreign policy being a stumbling block to him.

Again you are trying to insinuate President Trump serves Putin. If anything, it may simply be outmaneuvered.

https://texags.com/forums/16/topics/3120001/2

What you fail to do is to recognize your party's trajectory is malevolent and the point is simple -- consider them a greater threat to American identity than Russia now. So all this is pointless.

The worst of what Bolton said wasn't anything of what the DNC-MSM is pitching. But it does paint someone not as good at foreign policy as domestic. History may bear that out. That he has self-serving moments like FDR and LBJ and so many others is no surprise. Never been a "letter of the law" person. I don't think they were committing treason when serving themselves, and I don't think he is.

---

Such cognitive dissonance combined with denial, compounded by partisan hatred. It is quite apalling. And as I correctly noted earlier in the thread, the taint and stench on those who still support this regime can't ever be washed off. Allowing yourselves to be naively duped four years ago when he was new and unknown is one thing. But after four years of seeing Trump's dishonesty, narcissism, malfeasance, corruption, his disdain for democratic institutions / our allies / NATO, and his fondness for enemy dictators -- all of that has been visible to you and your ilk, which means in 2020 you know exactly who and what you're supporting. Y'all own 100-percent now the Trumpian betrayal of GOP principles and the shambles it has made of the Reagan-Bush legacy. To paraphrase a line from Shakespeare, "Henceforth it shall be a pox upon your house Republican Party, and all who choose to dwell within it."

---

Bless your heart!

GMaster0 said:

---

BenColderHere said:

---

Quote:

---

his disdain for Democrat institutions / our allies / NATO

---

Quote:

---

yep, that's why we like him.

---

^
|


So, titan, if kneeling in protest is disrespectful and unpatriotic and un-American, then what do you call it when a CINC refuses to read the daily PDB during his 4 years in office while US soldiers have been at war in Afghanistan and several other countries fighting and dying for our country?

I call it a criminal dereliction of a CINC's duty and a malfeasant violation of the Presidential oath of office, and an unconscionable betrayal of the public trust he swore to uphold.

---

I am highly suspicious that this type of info was not directly briefed to him. The world over knows that this man does not like to read anything, his staff knows this as well and somebody in there had to walk up to present this info. Otherwise they are terrible at their job.

Even if it was incompetence, the administration has had this info for a while now and time to investigate more, develop a plan of action, and then work with Congress on the implementation of these plans where there support is needed.

That's what a functioning administration does, still more time for this to happen. Will see what the coming days have entail.

---

So many experts here.

What it must Be like to have first hand knowledge about a billionaire who doesn't read, who refuses to get briefings from CENCOM, and that NATO is mad at us for making them pay their share of the cost.

I only hope one truly believes all of that nonsense because it keeps them living in a world of misery and TDS.

You know when a president is doing well? When the opposition has to make up things to get mad at.

Goid Trump.

GMaster0 said:

---

BenColderHere said:

---

Quote:

---

his disdain for Democrat institutions / our allies / NATO

---

Quote:

---

yep, that's why we like him.

---

^
|


So, titan, if kneeling in protest is disrespectful and unpatriotic and un-American, then what do you call it when a CINC refuses to read the daily PDB during his 4 years in office while US soldiers have been at war in Afghanistan and several other countries fighting and dying for our country?

I call it a criminal dereliction of a CINC's duty and a malfeasant violation of the Presidential oath of office, and an unconscionable betrayal of the public trust he swore to uphold.

---

I am highly suspicious that this type of info was not directly briefed to him. The world over knows that this man does not like to read anything, his staff knows this as well and somebody in there had to walk up to present this info. Otherwise they are terrible at their job.

Even if it was incompetence, the administration has had this info for a while now and time to investigate more, develop a plan of action, and then work with Congress on the implementation of these plans where there support is needed.

That's what a functioning administration does, still more time for this to happen. Will see what the coming days have entail.

---

Obama learned about his scandals by watching the news. I don't see this administration any less informed than any prior administration. And because the media didn't scrutinize and embedded traitors didn't leak to the media, we don't really know how misinformed Obama was, just that his policies ended up terrible on everything.

This isn't finding out a scandal in the news. He literally had the information in print before him in March in his own tailored daily intel briefing. It doesn't smack as a high speed operation if he can't be bothered to actually read it.

I think we still need to wait on more facts to unfold, but it seems to be another Trump blunder at this point. Hopefully action will be taken appropriate and proportionate to the situation at hand with Russia.

GMaster0 said:

---

This isn't finding out a scandal in the news. He literally had the information in print before him in March in his own tailored daily intel briefing. It doesn't smack as a high speed operation if he can't be bothered to actually read it.

I think we still need to wait on more facts to unfold, but it seems to be another Trump blunder at this point. Hopefully action will be taken appropriate and proportionate to the situation at hand.

---

If you look at what the other various sources are saying, it sounds like the information provided was based on less than proven intel, and that information since then has discounted it further. If the career agent briefing him discounted it at the time because of insufficient backing and the NSA now says that was good decision based on information that has been gathered since then, this sounds like a tempest in a tea cup stirred up again by low level bureaucrats/analysts who disagree with how their information was handled.

"Another Trump blunder"

More like "more made-up nonsense invented to try to make Trump look bad".

Vader Was Framed said:

---

hoax! Trump said so! /thread

---

Hoax, because that's what it is.

GMaster0 said:

---

This isn't finding out a scandal in the news. He literally had the information in print before him in March in his own tailored daily intel briefing. It doesn't smack as a high speed operation if he can't be bothered to actually read it.

I think we still need to wait on more facts to unfold, but it seems to be another Trump blunder at this point. Hopefully action will be taken appropriate and proportionate to the situation at hand with Russia.

---

My understanding is that it didn't make it into the printed briefing. Is there any information that it did?

The only allegation we have right now is a leak to the NY Times. Then we have Grenell saying he didn't know about it and some CIA types saying they didn't deem it credible and didn't move it up the chain.

It sounds too much like the Ukraine phone call hoax. You can probably measure the time between now and the time the leaker claims whistle-blower status with a monthly schedule planner as opposed to a calendar.

The reason Presidents and Vice-Presidents have a duty to read the written PDB every day is because the written PDB contains far more national security topics and detailed information than a verbal briefing. National security is the #1 duty of a CINC.

Obama, Biden, GWB, Cheney, Clinton, Gore, GHWB, Reagan, Carter, Ford, and Nixon read it every day.

Trump is the first and only U.S. President to defacto not read the written Daily PDB. Sadly, even if Trump did read it, he probably wouldn't understand or believe most of it. Trump is a believer in rightwing propaganda tinfoil-hat wingnut conspiracy theories. He spends hours each day on Twitter and watching tv, and he pays more attention to what Fox News and OAN loons say than he does to the daily written PDB.

Our intel agencies warned Trump and Pence about the Covid threat multiple times in the daily written PDB. But it doesn't protect America when the Potus and V.P. don't do their CINC duty and read the brief.

BenColderHere said:

---

The reason Presidents and Vice-Presidents have a duty to read the written PDB every day is because the written PDB contains far more national security topics and detailed information than a verbal briefing. National security is the #1 duty of a CINC.

Obama, Biden, GWB, Cheney, Clinton, Gore, GHWB, Reagan, Carter, Ford, and Nixon read it every day.

Trump is the first and only U.S. President to defacto not read the written Daily PDB. Sadly, even if Trump did read it, he probably wouldn't understand or believe most of it. Trump is a believer in rightwing propaganda tinfoil-hat wingnut conspiracy theories. He spends hours each day on Twitter and watching tv, and he pays more attention to what Fox News and OAN loons say than he does to the daily written PDB.

Our intel agencies warned Trump and Pence about the Covid threat multiple times in the daily written PDB. But it doesn't protect America when the Potus and V.P. don't do their CINC duty and read the brief.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Eb3W32NXkAUqKgI?format=jpg&name=large

---

Bolded part is fake news because I can remember this same accusation of not reading the PDB being reported about both GWB and Obama, and the CIA assigned a briefer to GWB to summarize the brief to him (as has been done with other presidents). I also know that Reagan at times was challenging to brief because he didn't like the read his briefing papers.

txags92 said:

---

GMaster0 said:

---

This isn't finding out a scandal in the news. He literally had the information in print before him in March in his own tailored daily intel briefing. It doesn't smack as a high speed operation if he can't be bothered to actually read it.

I think we still need to wait on more facts to unfold, but it seems to be another Trump blunder at this point. Hopefully action will be taken appropriate and proportionate to the situation at hand.

---

If you look at what the other various sources are saying, it sounds like the information provided was based on less than proven intel, and that information since then has discounted it further.

---

GMaster0 has no interest in a fact-based discussion. That's not what he does.

FWIW.

Quote:

---

Top committee staff for Rep. Adam Schiff (D-Calif.), the chairman of the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence, were briefed in February on intelligence about Russia offering the Taliban bounties in Afghanistan, but he took no action in response to the briefing, multiple intelligence sources familiar with the briefing told The Federalist. The intelligence was briefed to Schiff's staff during a congressional delegation, or CODEL, trip to Afghanistan in February.

Asked by a reporter Tuesday if he had any knowledge of the Russia story prior to the New York Times report, Schiff said "I can't comment on specifics."

Schiff's recent complaints that Trump took no action against Russia in response to rumors of Russian bounties are curious given that Schiff himself took no action after his top staff were briefed by intelligence officials. As chairman of the intelligence committee, Schiff had the authority to immediately brief the full committee and convene hearings on the matter. Schiff, however, did nothing. He did not brief his committee on the matter, nor did he brief the gang of 8, which consists of top congressional leadership in both chambers.

---

LINK

Vader Was Framed said:

---

WHOOP!'91 said:

---

GMaster0 said:

---

This isn't finding out a scandal in the news. He literally had the information in print before him in March in his own tailored daily intel briefing. It doesn't smack as a high speed operation if he can't be bothered to actually read it.

I think we still need to wait on more facts to unfold, but it seems to be another Trump blunder at this point. Hopefully action will be taken appropriate and proportionate to the situation at hand with Russia.

---

My understanding is that it didn't make it into the printed briefing. Is there any information that it did?

The only allegation we have right now is a leak to the NY Times. Then we have Grenell saying he didn't know about it and some CIA types saying they didn't deem it credible and didn't move it up the chain.

It sounds too much like the Ukraine phone call hoax. You can probably measure the time between now and the time the leaker claims whistle-blower status with a monthly schedule planner as opposed to a calendar.

---

NATO officials were briefed on the Intel according to three NATO officials. Article is linked in this thread.

---

NATO being briefed doesn't mean Trump was.