I think that's what is the issue with the masks. Not only did the CDC first come out and say they aren't needed (also, Fauci said they didn't work), the moment the recommendation was to wear one, local politicians decided to make it an ultimatum...wear one or else. Couple it with zero factual evidence they even work, and you have a lot of people turned off by it.

There was a sort of crappy article today on RealClear that had a fantastic headline 'American's don't get ruled.'

While I thought the article was poorly written, it pointed out the absurdity of some of the completely arbitrary rules across the country surrounding the lock down or whatever it is/was.

When people see nine things that are stupid they will assume the 10th is as well, especially after the government completely changes its message on the subject like they did in this case.

But the biggest challenge is exactly what the headline says. We don't like to be told what to do. It is not in our DNA.

PJYoung said:

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aTm2004 said:

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PJYoung said:

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Detmersdislocatedshoulder said:

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I remember when only N95 masks helped prevent the spread now it's any masks work. It's not that people that are anti mask want to kill mee maw its that they don't believe the dialogue. It's a way to make people feel safe but how much does it really help? i can't quantify that but I am very confident that people like dr Fauci can't either based on there constant waffling of messages. So do masks work or only n95? Does every person who wears a mask wear an n95 masks?

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n95 masks protect you but they are much, much more difficult to wear for prolonged periods of time.

Surgical masks protect others.

If everybody wore cloth or surgical masks this virus would die in a couple of weeks.

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Do you honestly believe that?

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Absolutely. Masks work on a virus like this.

It's too bad some people think they're too inconvenient.

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This virus is already dead and nothing.

Duncan Idaho said:

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That is why I keep saying wearing a mask is the most Christ like thing you can during this pandemic.

It is amazing to me how selfish/short sighted people are by refusing to wear a mask.

When you are wearing a mask you are simply saying "hey person I dont know, I respect you and your high risk loved ones enough to to put up with the inconvenience of wearing this mask on the off chance I MIGHT be sick and not know it. Because that is what heros do"

---

1) Who made YOU the authority on what is "Christ like" behavior?

2) Who are YOU to judge someone else as being selfish/short sighted?

The Bible is pretty clear on who is my judge...it isn't YOU...

aTm2004 said:

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The smallest bacteria is larger than the largest virus.

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That's not quite true. There are a few giant viruses that can be larger than a very few of the smallest bacteria.

NASAg03 said:

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Marcus Aurelius said:

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This has been discussed on here and the politics board extensively. The CDC changed their recommendations earlier in the year. Based on small studies, that suggest surgical masks reduce transmission of the virus, especially in asymptomatic carriers. Those above studies just a few. There isn't massive data to support this policy. But it makes sense to me. Estimates range from 70-90% reduction in transmission in these admitted small studies. A surgical mask doesn't protect you from an infected person coughing near you not wearing a mask. Some experts believe the rapid flattening of cases in Asia can be attributed to wide acceptance of mask usage in the population. And some feel it may have more affect than social distancing. Again, not heavy scientific evidence, just the CDC trying to make their best informed judgement decision. Like a lot other issues with this virus.

---

Key words: suggest, surgical mask, informed judgement decision

Yet those all that turns into law requiring ANY type of mask, or fines are imposed.

That's why people (including me) don't give a **** about wearing masks.

They didn't go from 0% effective to 100% effective. Instead you have a huge range of effectiveness, especially with the types of face masks used. Couple that with everyone wearing masks as a form of virtue signaling, and of course you're going to have push back.

Show me a study on how effective bandanas are, that have been worn for 8 hrs continuous, in the hot Texas sun, constantly touched and adjusted and pulled up and down, and then maybe I'll consider wearing one.

Suggestions that masks might help prevent spread some abstract percentage, then turn into law with fines or restrictions on choice and freedom. That is what many people have a problems will, and as such, the refusal to wear a mask is actually civil disobedience against stupid laws, personal choice, and individual freedom.

An another thing, stop comparing seat belts to masks.

Do I agree with seat belt laws? No.
Do seat belts save lives and prevent injury? 100% Yes.
Do I wear a seat belt? 100% yes.
It takes 1 second to put on a seat belt, and I don't even notice it, unlike a mask.

The comparison is not the same.

---

So...
Much...
THIS...

There are several countries whose case and death counts are going down with this virus who advise against masks such as Australia, New Zealand, Denmark, Norway, and Sweden. I assume they have access to the same information that we do. Why are they coming to a different conclusion on the effectiveness of masks?

Tens of thousands of people die in the US per year from the flu, but I don't recall Americans clamoring for masks during flu season. Are they not as effective against the flu virus?

FireAg said:

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Duncan Idaho said:

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That is why I keep saying wearing a mask is the most Christ like thing you can during this pandemic.

It is amazing to me how selfish/short sighted people are by refusing to wear a mask.

When you are wearing a mask you are simply saying "hey person I dont know, I respect you and your high risk loved ones enough to to put up with the inconvenience of wearing this mask on the off chance I MIGHT be sick and not know it. Because that is what heros do"

---

1) Who made YOU the authority on what is "Christ like" behavior?

2) Who are YOU to judge someone else as being selfish/short sighted?

The Bible is pretty clear on who is my judge...it isn't YOU...

---

Yeah, there's a lot in that post. Apparently, if you put on a mask and go grocery shopping, you're a hero. I guess the guy that's done 2 tours in the ME and has seen **** that keeps him up at night isn't a hero because he doesn't wear a mask when he grabs some lumber at Lowe's.

mully said:

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There are several countries whose case and death counts are going down with this virus who advise against masks such as Australia, New Zealand, Denmark, Norway, and Sweden. I assume they have access to the same information that we do. Why are they coming to a different conclusion on the effectiveness of masks?

Tens of thousands of people die in the US per year from the flu, but I don't recall Americans clamoring for masks during flu season. Are they not as effective against the flu virus?

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Be prepared for the "cuz we gots a flu vaccine, bruh!" response...

Even though the vaccine doesn't prevent flu death in everyone...

Yeah, I guess not...

I've seen **** on Texas roads that keeps me up at night myself...alcohol is far deadlier than Rona...maybe we should all just stop driving and be heroes?


Thank you for your service...

I'm curious how many people who believe masks to be effective refuse to get a flu shot.

Ranger222 said:

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This is honestly what you took away from that simple graphic?

Propaganda?

"Max" and "Min" exposure were used in terms of the situation presented.

Very quickly this thread which was meant to be informative has been taken over by non-sensible posters lacking common sense who seem like they can't deal with a tiny bit of hardship asked of them.

You may think that not wearing a mask makes you look "cool" and a "rebel", but crying about it makes you look weak. High school stuff and mentality honestly.

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You're right, I am not supposed to call out how ridiculous the graphic is being by stating things in absolutes. Instead I am supposed to see the image of someone coughing or sneezing on another person and assume that the only way to prevent this is to wear a mask (i.e. propoganda).

How many times can someone say they've been directly coughed or sneezed on by someone else? Now then, how many people have you met that didn't know germs are spread by coughing/sneezing?

If your answers are rarely ever and none, then what is the purpose of this image outside of pushing for people to wear masks?

And I have never been a part of the 'never mask' campaign, nor do I think I am cool by not wearing one. To me it's a simple practice of treating others how I would want to be treated. Staying 6 ft away, not laughing/talking near others, and covering my mouth and nose if I ever had to cough/sneeze.

aTm2004 said:

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I'm curious how many people who believe masks to be effective refuse to get a flu shot.

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Dunno...

I've never had a flu shot AND I've never had the flu...


I have saved lives with CPR and cut people out of mangled vehicles...guess that isn't "Christ like" though...

Unfortunately, I didn't serve. One of the few regrets in my life.

My uncle just retired after 33 years in HFD and I've heard stories about some of the **** you guys see as well as some of the dangers you go into. He's been shot at, attacked with a knife, walked through waist deep water while his partner was driving the ambulance due to some idiots shooting each other in the middle of a TS. Tons of stuff.

NASAg03 said:

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Show me a study on how effective bandanas are, that have been worn for 8 hrs continuous, in the hot Texas sun, constantly touched and adjusted and pulled up and down, and then maybe I'll consider wearing one.

---

Show me who has suggested wearing a bandana for 8 hours in the Texas sun for covid.

Wear a mask inside when you aren't 6 feet away from people.

What I get a kick out of are all of those sanctimonious do-gooders who pound their chest about how they are going to wash their hands and use hand sanitizer religiously now...

I've been doing this my entire life (the hand washing...sanitizer hasn't been around for 44 years), and I never knew how proud I should be until now...

New Mexico requires it anywhere outside the home when you are in public. Zoo is opening next week. Only the outside areas. Everyone 3 and up required to be in masks.

AggieSarah01 said:

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New Mexico requires it anywhere outside the home when you are in public. Zoo is opening next week. Only the outside areas. Everyone 3 and up required to be in masks.

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At least it isn't humid? /s

P.U.T.U said:

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I think one thing people have is information fatigue. At first we were told two weeks and mask don't help, here we are 10 weeks later of information where "experts" have been claiming mask are good or mask or bad. Then politics become involved instead of science. Last week the CDC comes out with substantially lower death rates.

I am not sure what could have been done but I know a lot of people said the CDC said mask didn't help at first so they don't need to wear them. At this point it is less science and more of fatigue on some people's part.

---

what baffles me is that filtration is real science. Certain particles cannot pass through tight woven mesh. You match the particle size of 99% exhale droplet size and mask mesh, boom, capture 99% of all virus containing droplets.

We filter our air everyday in life through our ACs. We filter our water. Why not our breath for a few months?

It isn't difficult.

AggieKeith15 said:

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Ranger222 said:

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This is honestly what you took away from that simple graphic?

Propaganda?

"Max" and "Min" exposure were used in terms of the situation presented.

Very quickly this thread which was meant to be informative has been taken over by non-sensible posters lacking common sense who seem like they can't deal with a tiny bit of hardship asked of them.

You may think that not wearing a mask makes you look "cool" and a "rebel", but crying about it makes you look weak. High school stuff and mentality honestly.

---

You're right, I am not supposed to call out how ridiculous the graphic is being by stating things in absolutes. Instead I am supposed to see the image of someone coughing or sneezing on another person and assume that the only way to prevent this is to wear a mask (i.e. propoganda).

How many times can someone say they've been directly coughed or sneezed on by someone else? Now then, how many people have you met that didn't know germs are spread by coughing/sneezing?

If your answers are rarely ever and none, then what is the purpose of this image outside of pushing for people to wear masks?

And I have never been a part of the 'never mask' campaign, nor do I think I am cool by not wearing one. To me it's a simple practice of treating others how I would want to be treated. Staying 6 ft away, not laughing/talking near others, and covering my mouth and nose if I ever had to cough/sneeze.

---

answer me this. How many times have you walked past someone and could smell their perfume, cologne, body odor, garlic breathe, etc?

I bet it is a lot. Could you see their cloud of odor before passing through it? Unlikely or you would have avoided it.

Now imagine they had just coughed before you turned the corner.

Instead of smelling their cologne or fart you are inhaling their virus. Small droplets suspended in air that you cannot see.

Ragoo said:

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P.U.T.U said:

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I think one thing people have is information fatigue. At first we were told two weeks and mask don't help, here we are 10 weeks later of information where "experts" have been claiming mask are good or mask or bad. Then politics become involved instead of science. Last week the CDC comes out with substantially lower death rates.

I am not sure what could have been done but I know a lot of people said the CDC said mask didn't help at first so they don't need to wear them. At this point it is less science and more of fatigue on some people's part.

---

what baffles me is that filtration is real science. Certain particles cannot pass through tight woven mesh. You match the particle size of 99% exhale droplet size and mask mesh, boom, capture 99% of all virus containing droplets.

We filter our air everyday in life through our ACs. We filter our water. Why not our breath for a few months?

It isn't difficult.

---

A few months. Is that like closing down for a few weeks to flatten the curve?

Since March 20th? Not a lot because we are all "social distancing." And as I said, people should cover their mouths when they cough, so no there shouldn't be droplets floating around even if people aren't wearing a mask.

By your own logic, how many masks can prevent perfumes or odors from traveling through them? To my knowledge only higher quality (n95) masks can prevent droplets that small from breaking through.

Duncan Idaho said:

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When you are wearing a mask you are simply saying "hey person I dont know, I respect you and your high risk loved ones enough to to put up with the inconvenience of wearing this mask on the off chance I MIGHT be sick and not know it. Because that is what heros do"

---

By this logic the "Christ like" thing would be for everybody to wear masks at all times when out of their homes. Not just now, but from now on and in perpetuity. The same people that are at risk for COVID would very possibly die from the flu or other illnesses that can be passed from one person to another.

I hope you understand this. It's really, really important that you do.

Joe Exotic said:

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Ragoo said:

---

P.U.T.U said:

---

I think one thing people have is information fatigue. At first we were told two weeks and mask don't help, here we are 10 weeks later of information where "experts" have been claiming mask are good or mask or bad. Then politics become involved instead of science. Last week the CDC comes out with substantially lower death rates.

I am not sure what could have been done but I know a lot of people said the CDC said mask didn't help at first so they don't need to wear them. At this point it is less science and more of fatigue on some people's part.

---

what baffles me is that filtration is real science. Certain particles cannot pass through tight woven mesh. You match the particle size of 99% exhale droplet size and mask mesh, boom, capture 99% of all virus containing droplets.

We filter our air everyday in life through our ACs. We filter our water. Why not our breath for a few months?

It isn't difficult.

---

A few months. Is that like closing down for a few weeks to flatten the curve?

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okay, 6 months. Happy? Because really if opening everything 100% meant 100% compliance with wearing masks in public for the next 6 months I would be in favor of that 10 out of 10. 100% of everything is better than 25% of something.

aTm2004 said:

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I think that's what is the issue with the masks. Not only did the CDC first come out and say they aren't needed (also, Fauci said they didn't work), the moment the recommendation was to wear one, local politicians decided to make it an ultimatum...wear one or else. Couple it with zero factual evidence they even work, and you have a lot of people turned off by it.

---

Oh wait, there's evidence. Latest from University of Washington:

"We now have really clear evidence that wearing masks works -- it's probably a 50% protection against transmission," Dr. Chris Murray, director of the Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation, or IHME, at the University of Washington, told CNN late Tuesday."

Clear evidence it works =/= probably a 50% protection.

Also, no discussion on types of masks, or how long they are worn, or the setting.

Latest now is that states are banning N95 masks with breather valves that don't filter exhaled breath. Yet they let people wear ****ty crocheted masks. Asinine.

Duncan Idaho said:

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That is why I keep saying wearing a mask is the most Christ like thing you can during this pandemic.

It is amazing to me how selfish/short sighted people are by refusing to wear a mask.

When you are wearing a mask you are simply saying "hey person I dont know, I respect you and your high risk loved ones enough to to put up with the inconvenience of wearing this mask on the off chance I MIGHT be sick and not know it. Because that is what heros do"

---

88planoAg said:

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Marcus Aurelius said:

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https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/498458-surgical-masks-can-reduce-coronavirus-spread-by-75-percent-researchers

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2020-05-covid-transmission.html


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2662657/


This has been discussed on here and the politics board extensively. The CDC changed their recommendations earlier in the year. Based on small studies, that suggest surgical masks reduce transmission of the virus, especially in asymptomatic carriers. Those above studies just a few. There isn't massive data to support this policy. But it makes sense to me. Estimates range from 70-90% reduction in transmission in these admitted small studies. A surgical mask doesn't protect you from an infected person coughing near you not wearing a mask. Some experts believe the rapid flattening of cases in Asia can be attributed to wide acceptance of mask usage in the population. And some feel it may have more affect than social distancing. Again, not heavy scientific evidence, just the CDC trying to make their best informed judgement decision. Like a lot other issues with this virus.

---

There ya go. An actual doc.

Re children and speech - do Asian children have these difficulties?

Those who say just the vulnerable should wear masks - doesn't work that way.

Wearing masks at a store also helps rptect the workers who are potentially exposed more than the shoppers.

Here is my (non medical) view of mask wearing:

You know the friendly wave you get when passing a neighbor? Or the nod/wave when in cars that pass in the neighborhood or on a country road?

How about the stranger who holds a door for you when you enter or exit a store?

Do you help someone in a grocery store reach something? Maybe help find something in an aisle for someone? Say hi to the store clerks or other workers?

Tell people who you interact with to have a nice day?

In other words, the neighborly actions of your fellow humans...do you notice these? We do this in Texas. All the time. Neighborly gestures. Friendly waves.

That mask I'm wearing? That is what the mask is. A nod. A friendly gesture. A helpful hand on a door so it won't hit you.

That is ALL it is.

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AggieKeith15 said:

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Since March 20th? Not a lot because we are all "social distancing." And as I said, people should cover their mouths when they cough, so no there shouldn't be droplets floating around even if people aren't wearing a mask.

By your own logic, how many masks can prevent perfumes or odors from traveling through them? To my knowledge only higher quality (n95) masks can prevent droplets that small from breaking through.

---

should and do are very different things. A mask ensures that what should be done is actually being done. See the difference?

Their virus is most likely not going to affect me that much...

So why should I care?

I have yet to see, hear from, or read about a proud non-mask wearer who also comes across as a good, decent, logical, or empathetic person. Every single anti-mask person I've encountered, both in real life and especially on this board, comes across as a sanctimonious assh*le, without fail. I understand, say, the people with kids who don't want to mask up the entire family every time they go to the park for the next few months. I totally get that. But the people who brag about not wearing masks, refuse to wear masks, etc., have never once *also* come across as nice, caring people in any way, shape, or form. Instead, it's ALWAYS about them. And their "freedoms" or not being "sheeple" or not being a "p/ssy" or not wanting to get made fun of, or any other number of asinine excuses. It really is shocking to me, and so incredibly disheartening, that this is even a thing. Next to the number of deaths, this has been one of the saddest and weirdest things to witness during this whole ordeal.

FireAg said:

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Their virus is most likely not going to affect me that much...

So why should I care?

---

because it isn't about you

Just because it may not affect you doesn't mean you in turn cannot affect someone else. If you mask and everyone else masks then the virus dies.

Wanna know what's better than wearing a mask if the virus has you worried?

Stay home...

Avoid everyone...

It is the SUREST way to protect YOURSELF...

See the difference?

FireAg said:

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Wanna know what's better than wearing a mask if the virus has you worried?

Stay home...

Avoid everyone...

It is the SUREST way to protect YOURSELF...

See the difference?

---

no I don't see the difference. People being home takes participants out of the economy. The economy needs 100% participation. Maybe that is lost on you in your self righteousness.

I get that...so if you're so scared about me not wearing a mask...then...



wait for it...


wait for it...





STAY HOME...

That is the BEST way to ensure you don't get sick...

It's up to YOU to protect yourself...you and your personal choices are the surest, safest way to avoid the virus...

FireAg said:

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I get that...so if you're so scared about me not wearing a mask...then...



wait for it...


wait for it...





STAY HOME...

That is the BEST way to ensure you don't get sick...

It's up to YOU to protect yourself...you and your personal choices are the surest, safest way to avoid the virus...

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who said I was scared? I am only trying to show you through logic how a virus stops spreading. Maybe you don't care, maybe you do. I want the virus to die and us all be done with this. While also having full participation in our economy.