VaultingChemist said:

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Prime example of fear mongering video. Guy claims that his wife works at a hospital that has numerous Chinese patients with coronavirus in Buffalo, NY. No names divulged.



Of course, there is a possibility that he is correct, and the government is suppressing the disclosure. How could they cover it up, though? Hipaa laws? CDC directive?

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HIPPA prevents us in EMS from disclosing anything. That and the fact if we say anything someone usually ends up suing pre-hippa. "No comment" Is always my best answer.

We need more diesel.

YouBet said:

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erudite said:

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SchizoAg said:

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KidDoc said:

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Clearing up some bad info over the weekend:

Vitamin C and cold medication will do nothing to prevent pneumonia from any source.

---

That's not what I said.

Taking vitamin C daily has been shown to reduce the duration and severity (but not the incidence) of the common cold. Assuming the mechanism is by "boosting the immune system" (as advertised in non-FDA-approved wording on the bottle), it is logical to infer that it would help with other viruses, too.

Quote:

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Nothing is really proven to prevent pneumonia but malnutrition and immobility are significant risk factors as is smoking and asthma.

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Being in a weakened state due to having been sick recently is surely a risk factor. So minimizing your sickness before you get the coronavirus actually will improve your odds of not getting pneumonia.

I don't know the difference between pneumonia, pneumonitis, bronchitis, etc. But I know that allowing yourself to cough incessantly, without treating the symptom, can lead to inflammation (some sort of -itis).

And based on personal experience, I believe that aggressively medicating the early symptoms of a cold (e.g. runny nose with pseudoephedrine) can slow its spread, giving the immune system time to work before it spreads to other body systems (throat, lungs).

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Don't forget China has an extremely high incidence of the Hepatitis illnesses (due to chopsticks... Nowdays most restaurants use a common chopstick for food) and TB (In the past, everyone is vaccinated now)

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Possibly the most inefficient tool ever created.

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Forks are the most inefficient tool ever created.

IrishTxAggie said:

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Also, ~9MM die/yr in China. 200k is a slow month

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Most impressive use of MM, a rarity outside oil and gas, how many Chinese can you fit in a barrel?

Sasappis said:

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flown-the-coop said:

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KorbinDallas said:

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flown-the-coop said:

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lunchbox said:

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Talked with a friend at church this morning who works in the Med Center (Houston). She said her hospital has multiple people in quarantine under observation but no confirmed tests yet.

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Were they authorized to disclose that information, because if not they should have honor and hand in their resignation.

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Lol, the TexAgs lawyers are out in force.

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Not a lawyer, but people speaking out of their hindside orifice particularly when the person is likely not completely informed and certainly not authorized to say anything then says it to someone who comes to a public forum to post this information creates disinformation and potential for hysteria and there should be a consequence for that.

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But you said it was illegal. What law makes the comment 'illegal'?

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I never said anything about legality. Not sure where that comment even comes from. I said authorized, and by extension of my comment regarding resignation it is a matter of policy and ethics. I would be mos t confident that if they work at a hospital, if their management learned they were discussing a sensitive matter with people at church, they would likely be subject to reprimand and or termination. But I never made any indication they broke the law.

one MEEN Ag said:

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IrishTxAggie said:

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Also, ~9MM die/yr in China. 200k is a slow month

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Most impressive use of MM, a rarity outside oil and gas, how many Chinese can you fit in a barrel?

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Depends on the quality of your blender.

In case anyone is interested in the underlying science. See Nature Medicine article published in 2015 that sparked debate on gain of function research, specifically involving bat derived coronaviruses. Note the laboratories/countries conducting the research, and funding agencies supporting the research.... Enjoy your reading.....

https://www.nature.com/articles/nm.3985

For those watching the CDC press conferences, Dr Fauci has been at all the ones I've watched. Just thought what he said was very interesting. I think it goes with what the WHO press conference said- a window of time to get rid of the little sparks before they become fires.

He was a guest on Face the Nation today. Full link here: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/transcript-dr-anthony-fauci-on-face-the-nation-february-16-2020/

DR. FAUCI: Well, a pandemic is when you have multiple countries throughout the world that have what's called sustained transmission from person to person to person, multiple generations. Right now, there are 24 countries in which there were over five hundred cases. Several of them are starting to get to the second and third transmission. So technically speaking, the WHO wouldn't be calling this a global pandemic, but it certainly is on the verge of that happening reasonably soon unless containment is more successful than it is right now.

erudite said:

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YouBet said:

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erudite said:

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SchizoAg said:

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KidDoc said:

---

Clearing up some bad info over the weekend:

Vitamin C and cold medication will do nothing to prevent pneumonia from any source.

---

That's not what I said.

Taking vitamin C daily has been shown to reduce the duration and severity (but not the incidence) of the common cold. Assuming the mechanism is by "boosting the immune system" (as advertised in non-FDA-approved wording on the bottle), it is logical to infer that it would help with other viruses, too.

Quote:

---

Nothing is really proven to prevent pneumonia but malnutrition and immobility are significant risk factors as is smoking and asthma.

---

Being in a weakened state due to having been sick recently is surely a risk factor. So minimizing your sickness before you get the coronavirus actually will improve your odds of not getting pneumonia.

I don't know the difference between pneumonia, pneumonitis, bronchitis, etc. But I know that allowing yourself to cough incessantly, without treating the symptom, can lead to inflammation (some sort of -itis).

And based on personal experience, I believe that aggressively medicating the early symptoms of a cold (e.g. runny nose with pseudoephedrine) can slow its spread, giving the immune system time to work before it spreads to other body systems (throat, lungs).

---

Don't forget China has an extremely high incidence of the Hepatitis illnesses (due to chopsticks... Nowdays most restaurants use a common chopstick for food) and TB (In the past, everyone is vaccinated now)

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Possibly the most inefficient tool ever created.

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Forks are the most inefficient tool ever created.

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No one lifts hay with pool cues

Not exactly sure how many people would actually want to collect on this offer by the Chinese government

Shanked Punt said:

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Not exactly sure how many people would actually want to collect on this offer by the Chinese government

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I guess this is progress. The commies used to charge your family for the cost of the bullet they put in your head, now they give you 500 rmb

KidDoc said:

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SchizoAg said:

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KidDoc said:

---

Clearing up some bad info over the weekend:

Vitamin C and cold medication will do nothing to prevent pneumonia from any source.

---

That's not what I said.

Taking vitamin C daily has been shown to reduce the duration and severity (but not the incidence) of the common cold. Assuming the mechanism is by "boosting the immune system" (as advertised in non-FDA-approved wording on the bottle), it is logical to infer that it would help with other viruses, too.

Quote:

---

Nothing is really proven to prevent pneumonia but malnutrition and immobility are significant risk factors as is smoking and asthma.

---

Being in a weakened state due to having been sick recently is surely a risk factor. So minimizing your sickness before you get the coronavirus actually will improve your odds of not getting pneumonia.

I don't know the difference between pneumonia, pneumonitis, bronchitis, etc. But I know that allowing yourself to cough incessantly, without treating the symptom, can lead to inflammation (some sort of -itis).

And based on personal experience, I believe that aggressively medicating the early symptoms of a cold (e.g. runny nose with pseudoephedrine) can slow its spread, giving the immune system time to work before it spreads to other body systems (throat, lungs).

---

Did you read the study you linked?
<snip>
The failure of vitamin C supplementation to reduce the incidence of colds in the general population indicates that routine vitamin C supplementation is not justified, yet vitamin C may be useful for people exposed to brief periods of severe physical exercise. Regular supplementation trials have shown that vitamin C reduces the duration of colds, but this was not replicated in the few therapeutic trials that have been carried out. Nevertheless, given the consistent effect of vitamin C on the duration and severity of colds in the regular supplementation studies, and the low cost and safety, it may be worthwhile for common cold patients to test on an individual basis whether therapeutic vitamin C is beneficial for them. Further therapeutic RCTs are warranted.
<snip>

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Did you read the second half of your excerpt, the part that you didn't boldface? The part where it says regular vitamin C supplementation consistently reduces the duration and severity (but not the incidence) of the common cold, just like I said above?

Quote:

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Also your personal experience does not equate to medical evidence or fact. Feel free to medicate yourself out the wazoo but all the cough & cold medications have been shown to briefly improve symptoms in patients over 4 years or age but they have never been shown to decrease the risk of series morbidity like pneumonia with any viral infection.

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Since you're apparently well-versed in all research on the topic, it shouldn't be hard for you to link, for example, a study in which the question was investigated with negative results. For my part, I can't find anything, at least not using the key phrase "series morbidity". Either that is an extremely under-studied topic (in which case my personal experience actually is the best medical evidence available), or there is a more common term for it.

Data proving out previously compromised lungs have a lot to do with severity - smoking, pollution

Eliminatus said:

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one MEEN Ag said:

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IrishTxAggie said:

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Also, ~9MM die/yr in China. 200k is a slow month

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Most impressive use of MM, a rarity outside oil and gas, how many Chinese can you fit in a barrel?

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Depends on the quality of your blender.

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It's a ninja!

OldAg89er said:

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What is being lost by the naysayers , those who pretend its harmless, is as I said previously : this virus is a military grade weapon that escaped from the L4 lab in China.

Thus, the reason even the U.S. is building quarantine camps and down playing what the future holds. It is going to run its course.

Chinese death toll is over 200,000.

54E.

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Thank God it is just over 200,000 and not over 2 million like it was going to be a couple of days ago based on what you said a week ago

IrishTxAggie said:

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OldAg89er said:

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What is being lost by the naysayers , those who pretend its harmless, is as I said previously : this virus is a military grade weapon that escaped from the L4 lab in China.

Thus, the reason even the U.S. is building quarantine camps and down playing what the future holds. It is going to run its course.

Chinese death toll is over 200,000.

54E.

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Imagine this: you find out there are hundreds of cases in the city where you live. We already know it is easily transmitted and lives on surfaces for days..

You haven't prepared because you have spent your time and efforts trying to look like a smart guy on Texags.

Now, you wet your pants realizing you only have a week or two of food in your pantry. You rush out to the store. Do you touch the buggy? What about all the fresh produce people have been sneezing and coughing on for 1-3 days? Do you get some produce? How about canned goods that have been touched by others? Boxed food? Bottled water? What about medicines, a lot of which is out of stock because it was made in China, or truly smart people stocked up? Do you touch that self checkout portal? Let a cashier touch everything (if there is anything) that you are buying? The sacker? Do you pay with paper bills? Do you enter your PIN with bare fingers? Do you touch the handle of the gas pump?

Do you wear gloves? A mask? Eye protection? Do you sterilize the food containers when you get home? How? With what? Where did you get the mask? Gloves?

I will submit that just grocery shopping will be a very hard thing to do as numbers rise in your area - even if there is food to shop for.

If I am right or wrong and people listen - they will be in a much better position no matter what happens.

If you are wrong - anyone listening to you is screwed.

GE said:

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OldAg89er said:

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What is being lost by the naysayers , those who pretend its harmless, is as I said previously : this virus is a military grade weapon that escaped from the L4 lab in China.

Thus, the reason even the U.S. is building quarantine camps and down playing what the future holds. It is going to run its course.

Chinese death toll is over 200,000.

54E.

---

Thank God it is just over 200,000 and not over 2 million like it was going to be a couple of days ago based on what you said a week ago

---

Apparently you cant read or you just make things up. The last body count I posted was 50,000.

Do not confuse those infected with symptoms and test positive, with those who are infected and dont even know it, and those who die.

Look, just keep your head in the sand.

John Francis Donaghy said:

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erudite said:

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YouBet said:

---

erudite said:

---

SchizoAg said:

---

KidDoc said:

---

Clearing up some bad info over the weekend:

Vitamin C and cold medication will do nothing to prevent pneumonia from any source.

---

That's not what I said.

Taking vitamin C daily has been shown to reduce the duration and severity (but not the incidence) of the common cold. Assuming the mechanism is by "boosting the immune system" (as advertised in non-FDA-approved wording on the bottle), it is logical to infer that it would help with other viruses, too.

Quote:

---

Nothing is really proven to prevent pneumonia but malnutrition and immobility are significant risk factors as is smoking and asthma.

---

Being in a weakened state due to having been sick recently is surely a risk factor. So minimizing your sickness before you get the coronavirus actually will improve your odds of not getting pneumonia.

I don't know the difference between pneumonia, pneumonitis, bronchitis, etc. But I know that allowing yourself to cough incessantly, without treating the symptom, can lead to inflammation (some sort of -itis).

And based on personal experience, I believe that aggressively medicating the early symptoms of a cold (e.g. runny nose with pseudoephedrine) can slow its spread, giving the immune system time to work before it spreads to other body systems (throat, lungs).

---

Don't forget China has an extremely high incidence of the Hepatitis illnesses (due to chopsticks... Nowdays most restaurants use a common chopstick for food) and TB (In the past, everyone is vaccinated now)

---

Possibly the most inefficient tool ever created.

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Forks are the most inefficient tool ever created.

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Forks are more efficient eating utensils by FAR.

As proof, I offer the following:

Chopstick fed:



Fork Shovel fed:



I rest my case.

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FIFY

OldAg89er said:

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GE said:

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OldAg89er said:

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What is being lost by the naysayers , those who pretend its harmless, is as I said previously : this virus is a military grade weapon that escaped from the L4 lab in China.

Thus, the reason even the U.S. is building quarantine camps and down playing what the future holds. It is going to run its course.

Chinese death toll is over 200,000.

54E.

---

Thank God it is just over 200,000 and not over 2 million like it was going to be a couple of days ago based on what you said a week ago

---

Apparently you cant read or you just make things up. The last body count I posted was 50,000.

Do not confuse those infected with symptoms and test positive, with those who are infected and dont even know it, and those who die.

Look, just keep your head in the sand.

---

Oh sorry it was 2 million presenting symptoms and 250 million infected

On the subject of Vitamin C as a theraputic, we will know for sure in about a year when a massive double blind study taking place across the country presents results, but there is certainly some compelling observational evidence for Vitamin C as a very low cost, low side effect treatment for some very serious conditions (sepsis is awful):

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6206928/

Also, Google Dr. Paul Marik and read all about it yourself...the dude is not some homeopath quack.

Diyala Nick said:

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On the subject of Vitamin C as a theraputic, we will know for sure in about a year when a massive double blind study taking place across the country presents results, but there is certainly some compelling observational evidence for Vitamin C as a very low cost, low side effect treatment for some very serious conditions (sepsis is awful):

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6206928/

Also, Google Dr. Paul Marik and read all about it yourself...the dude is not some homeopath quack.

---

By far the biggest caveat to any discussions regarding Marik is that part of his "vitamin C sepsis cocktail" are stress dose steroids, something we know based on mountains of data has benefit in septic shock necessitating vasopressors.

It is a virtual certainly much of the benefit of his vitamin C treatments are due to the steroids. I'm not saying there is no benefit, but it's exceedingly unlikely it is as significant as he argues. And all the high dose vitamin C doses discussed by homeopathic medicine will give you is massive diarrhea.

Infection_Ag11 said:

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Diyala Nick said:

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On the subject of Vitamin C as a theraputic, we will know for sure in about a year when a massive double blind study taking place across the country presents results, but there is certainly some compelling observational evidence for Vitamin C as a very low cost, low side effect treatment for some very serious conditions (sepsis is awful):

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6206928/

Also, Google Dr. Paul Marik and read all about it yourself...the dude is not some homeopath quack.

---

By far the biggest caveat to any discussions regarding Marik is that part of his "vitamin C sepsis cocktail" are stress dose steroids, something we know based on mountains of data has benefit in septic shock necessitating vasopressors.

It is a virtual certainly much of the benefit of his vitamin C treatments are due to the steroids. I'm not saying there is no benefit, but it's exceedingly unlikely it is as significant as he argues. And all the high dose vitamin C doses discussed by homeopathic medicine will give you is massive diarrhea.

---

Not sharpshooting, as I am a casual observer, but how do you know explain the substantial difference in mortality between just steroids and steroids + Vitamin C + B1?

Also, not advocating for the homeopathic crowd here at all....

Infection_Ag11 said:

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Diyala Nick said:

---

On the subject of Vitamin C as a theraputic, we will know for sure in about a year when a massive double blind study taking place across the country presents results, but there is certainly some compelling observational evidence for Vitamin C as a very low cost, low side effect treatment for some very serious conditions (sepsis is awful):

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6206928/

Also, Google Dr. Paul Marik and read all about it yourself...the dude is not some homeopath quack.

---

By far the biggest caveat to any discussions regarding Marik is that part of his "vitamin C sepsis cocktail" are stress dose steroids, something we know based on mountains of data has benefit in septic shock necessitating vasopressors.

It is a virtual certainly much of the benefit of his vitamin C treatments are due to the steroids. I'm not saying there is no benefit, but it's exceedingly unlikely it is as significant as he argues. And all the high dose vitamin C doses discussed by homeopathic medicine will give you is massive diarrhea.

---

If you get diarrhea just cut back on the dosage

Quote:

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Japan's health minister, Katsunobu Kato, urged the public to avoid crowds and "non-essential gatherings", including notoriously packed commuter trains and warned the nation was "entering a new phase" in the outbreak of the virus.

Koji Wada, a professor of public health at the International University of Health and Welfare, told the Asahi Shimbun: "There is the possibility that the infection may have spread to people well beyond the groups of patients who have been identified."

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Japan might be having trouble tracing contacts for all the new cases.

Infection_Ag11 said:

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Diyala Nick said:

---

On the subject of Vitamin C as a theraputic, we will know for sure in about a year when a massive double blind study taking place across the country presents results, but there is certainly some compelling observational evidence for Vitamin C as a very low cost, low side effect treatment for some very serious conditions (sepsis is awful):

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6206928/

Also, Google Dr. Paul Marik and read all about it yourself...the dude is not some homeopath quack.

---

By far the biggest caveat to any discussions regarding Marik is that part of his "vitamin C sepsis cocktail" are stress dose steroids, something we know based on mountains of data has benefit in septic shock necessitating vasopressors.

It is a virtual certainly much of the benefit of his vitamin C treatments are due to the steroids. I'm not saying there is no benefit, but it's exceedingly unlikely it is as significant as he argues. And all the high dose vitamin C doses discussed by homeopathic medicine will give you is massive diarrhea.

---

I think it was Prednisone.

If the main ingredient was the Vitamin C, we would have known that years ago considering how many people take huge doses of Vitamin C every day.

Shortly before the sepsis results were announced a woman from my church had died from sepsis after about a month in the hospital, so the topic was fresh on my mind. The next time I went to the doctor, I asked him about it. He said that it probably wouldn't help to take the Vitamins B and C daily, but it wouldn't hurt, either. So I now take a Super Vitamin B Complex daily which include 150 mg of Vitamin C.

Well this is something that could have been predicted. Folks tested, get evacuated and then become sick on the plane. 14 now infected. Should have quarantined at least 14 days in Japan after they disembarked before the headed home. EDIT - sounds like they had already tested positive but were asymptomatic so allowed to fly.

Curious if the other passengers knew of the 14 that may have been traveling with them.

And are there people that might be hosts - carrying the virus, never get sick or show symptoms, but still could spread?

South Korean news reporting on the speculation coming from scientists that the virus could have escaped from a lab. I wish they listed their sources so that I could read them.

Edit: Daily Mail story that was referenced. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8009669/Did-coronavirus-originate-Chinese-government-laboratory.html

Quote:

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Armed Thieves Steal Truckload Of Toilet Paper In Hong Kong Amid Worsening Shortage Of Basic Goods

In a shocking indication of just how bad shortages of basic goods have gotten as mainland China expands its lockdown to more than 700 million people and Hong Kong closes some of its borders, a gang of armed thieves in Hong Kong stole a truckload of toilet paper in a daring robbery last night.

Police say the truck driver was taken by surprise and held up by a man with a knife, while two others loaded the toilet paper into their getaway vehicle.

---

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/armed-thieves-steal-truckload-toilet-paper-hong-kong-amid-worsening-shortage-basic

In the country where everyone has diarrhea, the toilet paper man is king!

It was a taxi driver who was the 'super spreader' in Tokyo, I thought I read?

I would support a campaign to convince the Japs that eating dolphins is a risk to infection.

SchizoAg said:

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KidDoc said:

---

SchizoAg said:

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KidDoc said:

---

Clearing up some bad info over the weekend:

Vitamin C and cold medication will do nothing to prevent pneumonia from any source.

---

That's not what I said.

Taking vitamin C daily has been shown to reduce the duration and severity (but not the incidence) of the common cold. Assuming the mechanism is by "boosting the immune system" (as advertised in non-FDA-approved wording on the bottle), it is logical to infer that it would help with other viruses, too.

Quote:

---

Nothing is really proven to prevent pneumonia but malnutrition and immobility are significant risk factors as is smoking and asthma.

---

Being in a weakened state due to having been sick recently is surely a risk factor. So minimizing your sickness before you get the coronavirus actually will improve your odds of not getting pneumonia.

I don't know the difference between pneumonia, pneumonitis, bronchitis, etc. But I know that allowing yourself to cough incessantly, without treating the symptom, can lead to inflammation (some sort of -itis).

And based on personal experience, I believe that aggressively medicating the early symptoms of a cold (e.g. runny nose with pseudoephedrine) can slow its spread, giving the immune system time to work before it spreads to other body systems (throat, lungs).

---

Did you read the study you linked?
<snip>
The failure of vitamin C supplementation to reduce the incidence of colds in the general population indicates that routine vitamin C supplementation is not justified, yet vitamin C may be useful for people exposed to brief periods of severe physical exercise. Regular supplementation trials have shown that vitamin C reduces the duration of colds, but this was not replicated in the few therapeutic trials that have been carried out. Nevertheless, given the consistent effect of vitamin C on the duration and severity of colds in the regular supplementation studies, and the low cost and safety, it may be worthwhile for common cold patients to test on an individual basis whether therapeutic vitamin C is beneficial for them. Further therapeutic RCTs are warranted.
<snip>

---

Did you read the second half of your excerpt, the part that you didn't boldface? The part where it says regular vitamin C supplementation consistently reduces the duration and severity (but not the incidence) of the common cold, just like I said above?

Quote:

---

Also your personal experience does not equate to medical evidence or fact. Feel free to medicate yourself out the wazoo but all the cough & cold medications have been shown to briefly improve symptoms in patients over 4 years or age but they have never been shown to decrease the risk of series morbidity like pneumonia with any viral infection.

---

Since you're apparently well-versed in all research on the topic, it shouldn't be hard for you to link, for example, a study in which the question was investigated with negative results. For my part, I can't find anything, at least not using the key phrase "series morbidity". Either that is an extremely under-studied topic (in which case my personal experience actually is the best medical evidence available), or there is a more common term for it.

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Username checks out.