Okay you asked for it, you got it.

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Ukrainians were not very good listeners/and or are liars, then

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Hill was in the meeting, she observed it and reported it to the NSC lawyer. This isn't based on the Ukrainians testimony.

You don't think there are law professors out there saying the opposite?

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Harvard Law professor Laurence Tribe told Salon by email that Sondland's statement "contributes to the overwhelming evidence that President Trump abused his power and engaged in bribery and extortion by illegally conditioning the military aid

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https://today.law.harvard.edu/roundup/the-presidential-impeachment-inquiry-harvard-law-constitutional-scholars-weigh-in/

Buzzfeed says he's nuts.

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Perhaps no one embodies this trend so well as Laurence Tribe. Tribe is one of the country's foremost constitutional lawyers, the Carl M. Loeb university professor at Harvard Law School. He has argued dozens of cases in front of the Supreme Court. He's a major figure in American public life, and in recent months Tribe has devoted much of his activity on Twitter to outraged extrapolation about the Trump administration.
Often, these take the form of "big if true" tweets that cite unconfirmed reports about Trump's possible misdeeds and are essentially conjecture.

On April 22, Tribe shared a story from a website called the Palmer Report a site that has been criticized for spreading hyperbole and false claims entitled "Report: Trump gave $10 million in Russian money to Jason Chaffetz when he leaked FBI letter," a reference to the notorious pre-election letter sent by former FBI director James Comey to members of Congress that many have blamed for Hillary Clinton's November loss.

The "report" the article points to is a since-deleted tweet by a Twitter user named LM Garner, who describes herself in her Twitter biography as "Just a VERY angry citizen on Twitter. Opinions are my own. Sometimes prone to crazy assertions. Not a fan of this nepotistic kleptocracy." Garner, who has 257 followers, has tweeted more than 25,000 times from her protected account.
"I don't know whether this is true," Tribe's tweet reads, "But key details have been corroborated and none, to my knowledge, have been refuted. If true, it's huge."

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LINK

Gary Johnson said:

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You don't think there are law professors out there saying the opposite?

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Harvard Law professor Laurence Tribe told Salon by email that Sondland's statement "contributes to the overwhelming evidence that President Trump abused his power and engaged in bribery and extortion by illegally conditioning the military aid

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https://today.law.harvard.edu/roundup/the-presidential-impeachment-inquiry-harvard-law-constitutional-scholars-weigh-in/

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Laurence Tribe and Salon? Dude, do you go looking for the worst sources possible, or just post what you find on DU?

Laurence Tribe is a radical leftist, created a group as a counter to the Federalist Society, worked closely with Obama, and is so consumed with TDS that even liberal publications have called him out for it. He has been all in on the Russian collusion delusion since day one.

https://www.chronicle.com/article/2-Professors-Walk-Into-a/240405

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/josephbernstein/larry-tribe-why

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/07/liberal-fever-swamps/530736/

Gary Johnson said:

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Trump's own ambassadors and the Ukrainians knew there was a QPQ, whether it was implied, stated, relayed by Giuliani and Mulvaney, or however. It was directed by Trump and everyone knew it.

Sondland was witness to the scheme and it's laughable you would entertain that it was just a big misunderstanding.

Trump doesn't have to say the exact words "Gary, tell them it's a bribe". Let's see if a trial jogs his memory a little better though.

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You want it to be true so bad. The dems have poisoned your mind with mush.

There were and are active investigations going on with what happened in the 2016 election and the root of the fake dossier that led to FISA warrants and a spying operation on the president elect.

That's what this whole thing is about, but you don't get it. I don't blame you. I blame the people filling your mind with mush.

Even most dems are giving up but the libertarian is not giving up. Wonder what his hero thinks about impeachment? Just curious when this fails miserably are you going to admit you were played by a guy who loves little boys while also wanting naked pictures of Trump?

Gary Johnson said:

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You don't think there are law professors out there saying the opposite?

Quote:

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Harvard Law professor Laurence Tribe told Salon by email that Sondland's statement "contributes to the overwhelming evidence that President Trump abused his power and engaged in bribery and extortion by illegally conditioning the military aid

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https://today.law.harvard.edu/roundup/the-presidential-impeachment-inquiry-harvard-law-constitutional-scholars-weigh-in/

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TDS is a Helluva affliction. He's been promoting every whacky Trump conspiracy theory for at least a year

captkirk said:

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Gary Johnson said:

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Its such a pity that people with real first hand knowledge have testified it's true or are blocked from testifying.

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link?

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He was destroyed in cross. You didn't watch it, did you?

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He obviously didn't watch the testimony just got his talking points from CNN. He's still clueless what I was talking about so I just let it go. Let him reeeeee.

Mtn_Guide said:

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captkirk said:

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Gary Johnson said:

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Sorry yo boys dumb conspiracy theory lost and got him impeached.

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Says guy peddling conspiracy theories with no evidence

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yep. Poor Gary. Still doesn't have a single witness.

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He's about one Trump exoneration away from a straight jacket

titan said:

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Great quote from the video:

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President Trump: "Democrats are trying to overthrow the last election because they know they are not going to win the next election."

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That seems to about precisely the case.

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As Ben Shapiro says "All they have to do is not be crazy", but they can't help themselves. The Democrat's insanity will be the reason they lose if they hopefully do in 2020. Ideally their terrible policies should be the reason for their loss even if they were sane, but most people don't pay attention to the minutia.

Gary Johnson said:

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You don't think there are law professors out there saying the opposite?

Quote:

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Harvard Law professor Laurence Tribe told Salon by email that Sondland's statement "contributes to the overwhelming evidence that President Trump abused his power and engaged in bribery and extortion by illegally conditioning the military aid

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https://today.law.harvard.edu/roundup/the-presidential-impeachment-inquiry-harvard-law-constitutional-scholars-weigh-in/

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The facts of the case do not support bribery or extortion. You still have yet to prove "anything of value" was exchanged.

The fact you are relying on a constitutional interpretation rather than a criminal interpretation is telling.

So are they going to impeach or what?

I think they will, because it appears they intimidated the Michigan rep into retracting her suggestion that it wasn't a good idea to impeach, and she is now for it, I heard. That sounds like some behind the scenes arm-twisting.

Be that as it may, it suggests the decision is to go ahead.

titan said:

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I think they will, because it appears they intimidated the Michigan rep into retracting her suggestion that it wasn't a good idea to impeach, and she is now for it, I heard. That sounds like some behind the scenes arm-twisting.

Be that as it may, it suggests the decision is to go ahead.

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I think so too. Against better judgment, because the Senate trial is going to be brutal.

Define clean not sure I ever said that with regard to H Biden accepting the pairing. Bad decision.

Nothing illegal has even been alleged though.

Joe Biden is definitely clean for firing Shokin.

Gary Johnson said:

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It didn't happen. None of it did.

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Nobody thinks this not even you.

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I think it. You're wrong again. For the millionth time.

So for the next stanza in the peach mint chorus from DC, "did Trump coordinate in his pardons of military guys?"

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The crazy (or crazier) part of all this is that these two Senators clearly know that this investigation is a dead end before it begins. In their letter, they reference the Office of the Pardon Attorney and write, "The President's pardon powers are virtually absolute. That is precisely why safeguards must be in place to ensure that they are wielded judiciously institutional safeguards like your office, which exists to ensure that the President's pardon powers are exercised fairly and in the interests of justice."

They could have stopped with the first sentence and eliminated the word "virtually." (Well there are some questions as to whether or not the President can pardon himself, but aside from that, the power is absolute when it comes to anyone charged with a federal crime.) The Office of the Pardon Attorney is not a "safeguard" in any sense of the word. They have no power to stop a pardon or force the President to issue one. Theirs is an advisory role.

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I'm gonna go out on a limb and say he probably ignored whatever feedback they provided. Trump needs to surround himself with a "kitchen cabinet" of trusted people only, and fire as much of the State department/bureaucrats within 10 miles of him (especially any remaining Obama holdover ambassadors).

Gary Johnson said:

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Define clean not sure I ever said that with regard to H Biden accepting the pairing. Bad decision.

Nothing illegal has even been alleged though.

Joe Biden is definitely clean for firing Shokin.

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Since Sheriff Joe was Over UIkraine, How do you think Burisma got their money's worth for hiring a worthless crackhead?

e=mc2 said:

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Gary Johnson said:

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It didn't happen. None of it did.

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Nobody thinks this not even you.

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I think it.

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Trump asked Zelensky to investigate a political rival, it's on the call. You don't think this happened?

I assume you'll say yeah he did, but it wasn't wrong but you have to admit it's at least questionable. There's hyperbole on both sides but "nothing happened" isn't really defensible if you're being honest.

Chance Chase McMasters said:

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e=mc2 said:

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Gary Johnson said:

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It didn't happen. None of it did.

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Nobody thinks this not even you.

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I think it.

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Trump asked Zelensky to investigate a political rival, it's on the call. You don't think this happened?

I assume you'll say yeah he did, but it wasn't wrong but you have to admit it's at least questionable. There's hyperbole on both sides but "nothing happened" isn't really defensible if you're being honest.

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As the party of "reasonably assuming/inferring" should realize, it's reasonable to think the election interference from Ukraine (including of course the phishing Jon Podesta fell for), and general corruption involving the Bidens there in 2016, was worth investigating. That the US embassy is/was refusing to issue visas to Ukrainians to deliver to the US DoJ information related to the 2016 corruption, to the point Zelensky asked for Giuliani to visit with them on it, reasonably also makes Trump's reference to the pathetic Bidens on the call not at all indefensible, but really ordinary.

It's wholly believable that neither the Ukrainians, nor Trump, had reasonable trust in either his State department or NSC folks on this, as their duplicitous testimony has supported.

Newt Gingrich brought up an issue regarding Nadler's upcoming "impeachment" hearings. Schiff still hasn't released all of the transcripts from all of the witnesses. How can Trump's attorneys prepare their witness lists and questions without access to all of the so-called evidence? Answer: they can't.

It remains to be seen whether Schiff even transfers all of the evidence to the Judiciary Committee or he instead opts just to write a report with footnote citation to "deposition of X." Solely cherry picked information.

Zeldin has been out there saying the still secret deposition of OMB's Mark Sandy answers the question of why the aid to Ukraine was on temporary hold but because of Schiff's gag order he cannot divulge what Sandy actually said on the subject.

That's just all kinds of whacked and deceptive.

ETA: Transcripts released last evening. Reading them now.