titan said:

---

Zemira really cut to the chase, which seems so hard for the pro-impeachers to grasp:

Quote:

---

So even if Trump has done something criminal in what world am I actually going to believe the MSM or the Democrats. After the **** show and TDS we have had the last 3 and a half years how can you believe a word that comes out of their mouths? Or an article printed? It's all propaganda for them to sow seeds of doubt in the American public and to get them to drink the socialist liberal kool-aid. We are in the middle of a dystopian tragedy and half the country has bought it hook, line and sinker.

---

Would add, in what world, would letting them kangaroo trial Trump to enable their agenda make the slightest sense?

---

It's really not that hard--Liberals are evil. It's on full display everyday. They'll say they have facts, evidence and proof. Nobody should ever waste their time and give any amount of consideration for anything they say because they are known liars. It's plain logic.

AKA diplomacy.

The Dems are trying to make diplomatic negotiations by the president into a crime.

AKA America First

The Dems are trying to hide their candidate's crimes by impeaching a president willing to put archaic protocol aside and use all resources at his disposal, personal and executive, to bring Democrat politicians to justice (which doesn't happen often when they have the deep state covering for them).

MouthBQ98 said:

---

AKA diplomacy.

The Dems are trying to make diplomatic negotiations by the president into a crime.

---

Why quid pro quo was going nowhere. When opening up the tax payers' piggy bank, they expect some value in return.

The problem here is that what is in the interests of American national security and hegemony isn't very pretty. There are great moments like the Berlin Airlift and the Marshall plan then there are the Bay of Pigs fiascoes.

Remember who it was that was insisting to George W. that Saddam had weapons of mass destruction. Then think about that Clapper and Brennan Intelligence Community Assessment in January of 2017. Draw a direct line between the two, add a dash of Schumer's quote "they have six ways from Sunday to get back at you," and do the math.

I have never given much credence to the notion that the CIA offed JFK but at this point, I wouldn't put it past them either.

In hindsight, the GWOT was not executed properly as it ended up giving way too much power to the administrative state...an administrative state without any accountability for the soundness of the intelligence and advice being provided to the President. And as the saying goes, "GIGO" is the result.

chimmy said:

---

titan said:

---

Zemira really cut to the chase, which seems so hard for the pro-impeachers to grasp:

Quote:

---

So even if Trump has done something criminal in what world am I actually going to believe the MSM or the Democrats. After the **** show and TDS we have had the last 3 and a half years how can you believe a word that comes out of their mouths? Or an article printed? It's all propaganda for them to sow seeds of doubt in the American public and to get them to drink the socialist liberal kool-aid. We are in the middle of a dystopian tragedy and half the country has bought it hook, line and sinker.

---

Would add, in what world, would letting them kangaroo trial Trump to enable their agenda make the slightest sense?

---

It's really not that hard--Liberals are evil. It's on full display everyday. They'll say they have facts, evidence and proof. Nobody should ever waste their time and give any amount of consideration for anything they say because they are known liars. It's plain logic.

---

Oh, agree the Left would be nation-wreckers are evil, and that the malignancy of the Democratic Party leadership and allies is on display everyday. But at least a couple of the pro-impeach posters here are known posters and it is more what they don't see that is the puzzle given the declared resistance Jan 2017.

aggiehawg said:

---

Quote:

---

Extortion describes every trade deal and threatened military action negotiated by the executive.

---

A/K/A "statecraft."

---

Yes literally every trade deal and arms agreement includes requirements about producing sham publicity stunts aimed to hurt American politicians.

This is completely normal and above board. Trump released the aid after he got caught but that was just a coincidence.

Ag with kids said:

---

Gary Johnson said:

---

I would call it a scheme not a policy. Giuliani along with Sondland, Mulvaney et al.

I meant an end-around Taylor, the embassy, or anyone not willing to go along

---

That didn't answer my question.

Was Guiliani doing what Trump WANTED or DID NOT WANT?

---

Late reply. I caught a 24 hour detention from staph.

Giuliani was working on behalf of Trump but apparently also had unrelated business interests in Ukraine.

Gary Johnson said:

---

aggiehawg said:

---

Quote:

---

Extortion describes every trade deal and threatened military action negotiated by the executive.

---

A/K/A "statecraft."

---

Yes literally every trade deal and arms agreement includes requirements about producing sham publicity stunts aimed to hurt American politicians.

This is completely normal and above board. Trump released the aid after he got caught but that was just a coincidence.

---

Every trade deal and arms agreement includes requirements about anti-corruption. Or do you want to have trade deals with countries who openly break American laws and possibly pays off the kids of politicians?


Nothing about trump is "normal", but its definitely legal.

Gary Johnson said:

---

Ag with kids said:

---

Gary Johnson said:

---

I would call it a scheme not a policy. Giuliani along with Sondland, Mulvaney et al.

I meant an end-around Taylor, the embassy, or anyone not willing to go along

---

That didn't answer my question.

Was Guiliani doing what Trump WANTED or DID NOT WANT?

---

Late reply. I caught a 24 hour detention from staph.

Giuliani was working on behalf of Trump but apparently also had unrelated business interests in Ukraine.

---

Ok...

So, if that's the case, anything he was doing for Trump was official US foreign policy and allowed and anything he was doing on his own is HIS problem, not Trump's.

Ag with kids said:

---

Gary Johnson said:

---

Ag with kids said:

---

Gary Johnson said:

---

I would call it a scheme not a policy. Giuliani along with Sondland, Mulvaney et al.

I meant an end-around Taylor, the embassy, or anyone not willing to go along

---

That didn't answer my question.

Was Guiliani doing what Trump WANTED or DID NOT WANT?

---

Late reply. I caught a 24 hour detention from staph.

Giuliani was working on behalf of Trump but apparently also had unrelated business interests in Ukraine.

---

Ok...

So, if that's the case, anything he was doing for Trump was official US foreign policy and allowed and anything he was doing on his own is HIS problem, not Trump's.

---

Rudy has repeatedly claimed he was working in the Ukraine pro bono as Trump's personal lawyer. It's still constitutional.

The term is envoy

will25u said:

---

---

If that's true, then Schiff's charade is going to implode...

Quote:

---

So, if that's the case, anything he was doing for Trump was official US foreign policy and allowed and anything he was doing on his own is HIS problem, not Trump's.

---

What do you mean "allowed"? Giuliani won't get in Trouble for delivering Trump's offer, Trump will.

captkirk said:

---

The term is envoy

---

He wasn't that.

Nikki Haley: Rudy Giuliani should've been named special envoy to Ukraine

FireAg said:

---

will25u said:

---

---

If that's true, then Schiff's charade is going to implode...

---

It already has. He just doesn't know it yet.

FireAg said:

---

will25u said:

---

---

If that's true, then Schiff's charade is going to implode...

---

oops

Gary Johnson said:

---

Quote:

---

So, if that's the case, anything he was doing for Trump was official US foreign policy and allowed and anything he was doing on his own is HIS problem, not Trump's.

---

What do you mean "allowed"? Giuliani won't get in Trouble for delivering Trump's offer, Trump will.

---

I didn't realize that the POTUS was not in charge of implementing foreign policy for the US. I guess now it needs Congressional approval?

Quote:

---

New developments in the impeachment probe were revealed during two closed-door depositions that took place over the weekend, revealed Rep. Lee Zeldin, R-N.Y., who called for a delay in the upcoming impeachment hearings until those transcripts are publicly available.

"A lot of people didn't realize that once the cameras ended... on Friday, we then went back to this SCIF in the Capitol basement where there was a closed-door deposition," Zeldin said on [url=https://nation.foxnews.com/maria-bartiromos-insiders/clips/?cmpid=org=NAT::ag=owned::mc=referral::src=FNC_web::cmp=article::add=BartiromoInsider_Article_FNC_Platform]Fox Nation's "Maria Bartiromo's Insiders."

David Holmes, assistant to Ambassador Bill Taylor in Ukraine, and Office of Management and Budget official Mark Sandy, testified before Congress over the weekend, in separate closed-door depositions following last week's highly contentious public hearings.

According to Zeldin, Sandy "went right to the heart of why there was a hold on aid to Ukraine" during his Saturday deposition, and called for a release of the transcripts containing Sandy's statement in time for week two of public hearings.[/url]

---

Quote:

---

"A great answer given, a very informative answer by Mark Sandy," Zeldin said, "and I think it would change some of the answers given by some of these other witnesses this week."

---

Change answers? Hhmm. Connected or not to Vindman?

LINK

chimmy said:

---

captkirk said:

---

The term is envoy

---

He wasn't that.

Nikki Haley: Rudy Giuliani should've been named special envoy to Ukraine

---

Special Envoys are empowered by an executive order. If that power is already vested in the executive, making it official, seems like small potatoes.

Plus Giuliani has the right as a citizen, to travel wherever he pleases, and give his opinion on many scenarios. Getting paid for that opinion could be an issue. Sharing classified info would be an issue. Its probably why lib operatives are focusing on his relationship where money crossed hands.

At least that has potential for a crime, libs seem to be stuck in made-up crime land.

will25u said:

---

---

I've been told that this was a super secret operation, because crimes. That is why all these guys in the "unofficial" channel were basically screaming into the phone in a public place in front of "official" guys.

aggiehawg said:

---

Quote:

---

New developments in the impeachment probe were revealed during two closed-door depositions that took place over the weekend, revealed Rep. Lee Zeldin, R-N.Y., who called for a delay in the upcoming impeachment hearings until those transcripts are publicly available.

"A lot of people didn't realize that once the cameras ended... on Friday, we then went back to this SCIF in the Capitol basement where there was a closed-door deposition," Zeldin said on [url=https://nation.foxnews.com/maria-bartiromos-insiders/clips/?cmpid=org=NAT::ag=owned::mc=referral::src=FNC_web::cmp=article::add=BartiromoInsider_Article_FNC_Platform]Fox Nation's "Maria Bartiromo's Insiders."

David Holmes, assistant to Ambassador Bill Taylor in Ukraine, and Office of Management and Budget official Mark Sandy, testified before Congress over the weekend, in separate closed-door depositions following last week's highly contentious public hearings.

According to Zeldin, Sandy "went right to the heart of why there was a hold on aid to Ukraine" during his Saturday deposition, and called for a release of the transcripts containing Sandy's statement in time for week two of public hearings.[/url]

---

Quote:

---

"A great answer given, a very informative answer by Mark Sandy," Zeldin said, "and I think it would change some of the answers given by some of these other witnesses this week."

---

Change answers? Hhmm. Connected or not to Vindman?

LINK

---

Well Gary isn't gonna like this one bit...

Ag with kids said:

---

Gary Johnson said:

---

Quote:

---

So, if that's the case, anything he was doing for Trump was official US foreign policy and allowed and anything he was doing on his own is HIS problem, not Trump's.

---

What do you mean "allowed"? Giuliani won't get in Trouble for delivering Trump's offer, Trump will.

---

I didn't realize that the POTUS was not in charge of implementing foreign policy for the US. I guess now it needs Congressional approval?

---

The libs don't believe FP is the purview of the executive. If you read back far enough, the executive doesn't even have discretion over timing of aid in their opinion. And the prez certainly cannot withhold it. It's a moronic position for sure.

chimmy said:

---

captkirk said:

---

The term is envoy

---

He wasn't that.

Nikki Haley: Rudy Giuliani should've been named special envoy to Ukraine

---

Potus can deem him to be whatever he feels like. Its not up to Manny

Quote:

---

I didn't realize that the POTUS was not in charge of implementing foreign policy for the US.

---

Don't be obtuse, the president doesn't have sole power over foreign policy. And even if that were the case it doesn't give immunity to criminal activity.

Criminal activity. Lol it gets better and better.

Gary Johnson said:

---

Quote:

---

I didn't realize that the POTUS was not in charge of implementing foreign policy for the US.

---

Don't be obtuse, the president doesn't have sole power over foreign policy. And even if that were the case it doesn't give immunity to criminal activity.

---

Wrong. Congress does check the power of the executives foreign policy through ratification of treaties and declaration of war.

But the executive negotiating a treaty congress disagrees with isn't a crime. And the president has the legal power and obligation to investigate corruption. Trumps actions weren't criminal.

Now it might be impeachable, but not criminal.

Gary Johnson said:

---

Quote:

---

I didn't realize that the POTUS was not in charge of implementing foreign policy for the US.

---

Don't be obtuse, the president doesn't have sole power over foreign policy. And even if that were the case it doesn't give immunity to criminal activity.

---

What crime was committed? Please provide evidence that would stand up in a court of law...