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Now we have the mind numb, share blue "concerned moderates" screaming "bribery, bribery, bribery, no really it's bribery".

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The apparent urge among Trump opponents to lower the bar for impeachment (until the U.S. becomes effectively the sort of parliamentary system rejected in the Constitution) recently became explicit in anti-Trumper Jonah Goldberg's case, when he tweeted that "the president ultimately serves at the pleasure of Congress." That wasn't the idea.

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aggiehawg said:

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Now we have the mind numb, share blue "concerned moderates" screaming "bribery, bribery, bribery, no really it's bribery".

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Bribery that Congress approved and were originally outraged that Trump had put a hold on, in light of the snap elections and seeing how those played out in a coalition government, if any.

In trying to get an understanding of what was going on in Ukraine under Yanukovych and what utlimately led to his ouster.

This Reuters article provides a lot of that back ground.

This Kaus Files article fills in the role our State Department played in his ouster. He also has a jarring comparison to what happened back then and what is happening today with the threatened impeachment of Trump.

He ends his piece thusly:

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The apparent urge among Trump opponents to lower the bar for impeachment (until the U.S. becomes effectively the sort of parliamentary system rejected in the Constitution) recently became explicit in anti-Trumper Jonah Goldberg's case, when he tweeted that "the president ultimately serves at the pleasure of Congress." That wasn't the idea.

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Gary Johnson said:

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I would call it a scheme not a policy. Giuliani along with Sondland, Mulvaney et al.

I meant an end-around Taylor, the embassy, or anyone not willing to go along

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aggiehawg said:

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Vindman does have that "I'm sooooo important," look about him.

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captkirk said:

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Gary Johnson said:

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I would call it a scheme not a policy. Giuliani along with Sondland, Mulvaney et al.

I meant an end-around Taylor, the embassy, or anyone not willing to go along

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Foreign minister and Zelinsky both claim you're a liar

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YouBet said:

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Man, I thought y'all were kidding about the focus group. What a bunch of clowns.

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aggiehawg said:

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We are in the middle of a dystopian tragedy and half the country has bought it hook, line and sinker.

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If going forward, Congress continues to weaponize itself as #Resistance as Barr is fearful, every President will have to have the Senate and the House controlled by their respective party.

Without the Senate, there can be no appointments to man the Executive Branch to be fully functional other than holdover long term bureaucrats.

Without the House, there will be unending investigations designed solely to harass and impair the President's ability to actually govern.

And we know that is true because Dems are calling for Barr's impeachment for saying just that.

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Hopefully the Senate under R control does just that to the next Dem prez. And the House should impeach him or her the day after they take the oath of office.

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aggiehawg said:

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YouBet said:

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Man, I thought y'all were kidding about the focus group. What a bunch of clowns.

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Nope. They really did have to test their presentation for a narrative that gets attention with a focus group. Apparently whether that narrative even applies to the facts is of low priority.

The proof of that assertion on my part is that not only I but other posters have been repeatedly asking how the facts fit into the "bribery" or the "extortion" scenario and no one can answer.

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Chance Chase McMasters said:

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Most Americans don't speak Latin, bribery is a type of quid pro quo. The messaging is just to make it easier for the masses to understand, it has nothing to do with the actual impeachment process.

It literally means "this for that".

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Chance Chase McMasters said:

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Every politician and political party uses focus groups. It's just a word choice, both words are definitionally accurate of the allegation.

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Gary Johnson said:

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Hahahahahaha the president sets official foreign policy, not unelected ambassadors. Strike one.

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Strike one is correct. In tandem with Congress. Extortion for personal gain is not official US foreign policy.

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Ukraine's resistance is exactly why a public announcement was vital. They can't sandbag an investigation they announce to the world. Welcome to reality.

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Zelinskiy would have loved to give Trump exactly what he wanted had there been any truth to the rumors. Sorry your retahrded 350 lb orange tub of lard got duped by a conspiracy theory only an imbecile would entertain.

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Gary Johnson said:

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aggiehawg said:

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Gary Johnson said:

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Not at this point and IDGAF about the Bidens. This has been under the microscope for 5 years and it's nothing more than a fringe debunked conspiracy theory at this point.

Trump has always been a dumb, bumbling, corrupt, lying, cheating, thieving fraud.

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By whom? The Prosecutor General, Lutsenko that Joe chose to replace Shokin?

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Disproved by any relevant measure that isn't nutso fringe conspiracy irrational. The state department's role during Biden's tenure threatened Zlochevsky, if anything. Ambassador Pyatt openly called for investigations in to Zlochevsky, as did George Kent.

This is inconsistent with the narrative Biden(and the rest of the western world) were withholding billions to protect Zlochevsky to protect Burisma to protect the board to protect a 5-6 figure board membership for crimes predating either Biden's participation.

If Trump's actions were actually in the public interest they wouldn't have been denied, conducted in secrecy, then reversed once caught red-handed. He knew it was corrupt.

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Gary Johnson said:

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Silent For Too Long said:

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It wasn't "conducted in secret" anymore then every other diplomatic dealing by every administration in the history of ever.

What a stupid talking point.

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In secret through trusted back channels and loyal insiders. If this was above board it would be clearly communicated to the embassy. Instead they figured out Giuliani was running an end-around.

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aggiehawg said:

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Vindman does have that "I'm sooooo important," look about him.

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Silent For Too Long said:

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Not quite.

Quid pro quo describes every single foreign policy arrangement ever made in the history of ever.

Once the public realized there was nothing nefarious about it, they scrambled to find a word that would make it sound much worse. The focus group told them to use bribery.

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Extortion describes every trade deal and threatened military action negotiated by the executive.

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So even if Trump has done something criminal in what world am I actually going to believe the MSM or the Democrats. After the **** show and TDS we have had the last 3 and a half years how can you believe a word that comes out of their mouths? Or an article printed? It's all propaganda for them to sow seeds of doubt in the American public and to get them to drink the socialist liberal kool-aid. We are in the middle of a dystopian tragedy and half the country has bought it hook, line and sinker.

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