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... If we are to impeach a president for only the third time in our history, we will need to rise above this age of rage and genuinely engage in a civil and substantive discussion.

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Not gonna happen with this bunch of idiots (or liberals in general) against Trump.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/04/us/politics/giuliani-europe-impeachment.html

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...Mr. Giuliani is using the trip, which has not been previously reported, to help prepare more episodes of a documentary series for a conservative television outlet promoting his pro-Trump, anti-impeachment narrative. His latest moves to advance the theories propounded by the prosecutors amount to an audacious effort to give the president's supporters new material to undercut the House impeachment proceedings and an eventual Senate trial....
.....
The European trip was organized around the filming of a multipart television series featuring Mr. Giuliani that is being produced and aired by a conservative cable channel, One America News, or OAN.

The series, the first two installments of which have already aired, is being promoted as a Republican alternative to the impeachment hearings, including Ukrainian "witnesses" whom House Democrats running the inquiry declined to call. Some of the Ukrainians interviewed by Mr. Giuliani were sworn in on camera to "testify under oath" in a manner that the network claims "debunks the impeachment hoax.".....

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I haven't run across any Twitter reports about the first 2 episodes that were shown on OAN.

Supposedly the documentary is out today. I'll look and see if I can find it.

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for a conservative television outlet promoting his pro-Trump, anti-impeachment narrative. His latest moves to advance the theories propounded by the prosecutors amount to an audacious effort to give the president's supporters new material to undercut the House impeachment proceedings and an eventual Senate trial....

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Pot....Kettle....black, you paragon of unbiased journalism.

drcrinum said:

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https://d3i6fh83elv35t.cloudfront.net/static/2019/12/Turley-Testimony.pdf

I think the legal beagels will thoroughly enjoy Turley's thesis. It's quite long & historically detailed, but it completely destroys Schiff's impeachment scheme. Plus Turley is most definitely not a Trump fan -- he voted for Obama & does not like Trump.

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Great read!

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I get it. You are mad. The President is mad. My Democratic friends are mad. My Republican friends are mad. My wife is mad. My kids are mad. Even my dog is mad . . . and Luna is a golden doodle and they are never mad. We are all mad and where has it taken us? Will a slipshod impeachment make us less mad or will it only give an invitation for the madness to follow in every future administration?

That is why this is wrong. It is not wrong because President Trump is right. His call was anything but "perfect" and his reference to the Bidens was highly inappropriate. It is not wrong because the House has no legitimate reason to investigate the Ukrainian controversy. The use of military aid for a quid pro quo to investigate one's political opponent, if proven, can be an impeachable offense. It is not wrong because we are in an election year. There is no good time for an impeachment, but this process concerns the constitutional right to hold office in this term, not the next.

No, it is wrong because this is not how an American president should be impeached. For two years, members of this Committee have declared that criminal and impeachable acts were established for everything from treason to conspiracy to obstruction. However, no action was taken to impeach. Suddenly, just a few weeks ago, the House announced it would begin an impeachment inquiry and push for a final vote in just a matter of weeks. To do so, the House Intelligence Committee declared that it would 51 not subpoena a host of witnesses who have direct knowledge of any quid pro quo. Instead, it will proceed on a record composed of a relatively small number of witnesses with largely second-hand knowledge of the position. The only three direct conversations with President Trump do not contain a statement of a quid pro quo and two expressly deny such a pre-condition. The House has offered compelling arguments why those two calls can be discounted by the fact that President Trump had knowledge of the underlying whistleblower complaint. However, this does not change the fact that it is moving forward based on conjecture, assuming what the evidence would show if there existed the time or inclination to establish it. The military aid was released after a delay that the witnesses described as "not uncommon" for this or prior Administrations. This is not a case of the unknowable. It is a case of the peripheral. The House testimony is replete with references to witnesses like John Bolton, Rudy Giuliani, and Mike Mulvaney who clearly hold material information. To impeach a president on such a record would be to expose every future president to the same type of inchoate impeachment.

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In this age of rage, many are appealing for us to simply put the law aside and "just do it" like this is some impulse-buy Nike sneaker. You can certainly do that. You can declare the definitions of crimes alleged are immaterial and this is an exercise of politics, not law. However, the legal definitions and standards that I have addressed in my testimony are the very thing dividing rage from reason. Listening to these calls to dispense with such legal niceties, brings to mind a famous scene with Sir Thomas More in "A Man For All Seasons." In a critical exchange, More is accused by his son-in-law William Roper of putting the law before morality and that More would "give the Devil the benefit of law!" When More asks if Roper would instead "cut a great road through the law to get after the Devil?," Roper proudly declares "Yes, I'd cut down every law in England to do that!" More responds by saying:

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"And when the last law was down, and the Devil turned 'round on you, where would you hide, Roper, the laws all being flat? This country is planted thick with laws, from coast to coast, Man's laws, not God's! And if you cut them down, and you're just the man to do it, do you really think you could stand upright in the winds that would blow then? Yes, I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake!"

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Great reference to a really good movie.

will25u said:

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TTT

Lets get this back on the front page with a BANG!

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Wow

pagerman @ work said:

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will25u said:

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TTT

Lets get this back on the front page with a BANG!

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Wow

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If true, which there is plenty of reason to doubt.

backintexas2013 said:

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Probably 102 administrative and two criminal.

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Sadly, you may be correct but administrative investigations would only apply to existing FBI/DOJ employees, not former employees unless there were pension issues, in my view.

So that gives me some hope.

To go along with my post from Paul Sperry.

backintexas2013 said:

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Probably 102 administrative and two criminal.

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I'm banking on the fact that he listed "criminal" before "administrative" means that the ratio is opposite what you said, more criminal than admin.

We are 981 pages into this thread and I still don't believe anyone will truly be punished for what is effectively an attempted bureaucratic coup.

Wildcat said:

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We are 981 pages into this thread and I still don't believe anyone will truly be punished for what is effectively an attempted bureaucratic coup.

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Barr is less than 10 months into his tenure. Sessions and Rosenstein were either useless as teats on a boar hog or counter-productive and actively participating in the coup.

I don't believe in any nuke option related to these FBI or FISA investigations. No way will the institutions endanger themselves by actually telling the public how corrupt they really have become. Maybe some people will "punished" along the lines of McCabe (who made up any lost income with a gig at CNN). But no one will go to prison. Particularly no one who was in a leadership position. And between gofundme and "book deals", any FBI person found acting against President Trump will be taken care of financially by the left and global interests.

I think it is very clear that the national intelligence and law enforcement agencies are hopelessly politicized and need to be dismantled. But that will never happen.

If Trump doesn't use his power to declassify all of the bad stuff that has been going on, then I don't think there will be a recovery for the country and it will mean the agencies become a praetorian guard that future president becomes beholden to. The agencies' spy tools are too powerful. If you think Hoover had blackmail material... and the praetorian guards are not there to protect the Republic, but to protect themselves and their vision of what the country should be doing in foreign policy.

I hope I am shocked by Durham and Horowitz. But I do not expect to see a sea change. And a Church Committee on steroids is just what we need.

If I recall correctly, way way back in the beginnings of this thread, Aggiehawg was concerned that if too many bad things came out that there would be a Church Committee 2 and it would harm our National Security. I'm pretty sure Aggiehawg has changed that point of view because the stench and danger is just too great. We need a national spy agency and FBI reset. Desperately. And Trump is the only person on the political horizon who can lead that charge.

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If I recall correctly, way way back in the beginnings of this thread, Aggiehawg was concerned that if too many bad things came out that there would be a Church Committee 2 and it would harm our National Security. I'm pretty sure Aggiehawg has changed that point of view because the stench and danger is just too great. We need a national spy agency and FBI reset. Desperately. And Trump is the only person on the political horizon who can lead that charge.

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You are correct that I have changed my mind but not in the way you suggest. After the disgraceful display of the Congressional hearings and the Kavanaugh Senate hearings, I doubt there could even be a non-partisan committee like the Church Committee to explore the massive issues with our intelligence services.

They don't even feel any inclination to nibble around the edges with some FISA reform which is critically needed, in my view.

So while Congressional action to right the wrongs is needed, it won't happen.

will25u said:

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TTT

Lets get this back on the front page with a BANG!

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This was extracted from the OIG semi-annual report covering April 1 - September 30, 2019 = page 14. It's located in the section pertaining to the FBI, pps 14-18:

https://oig.justice.gov/semiannual/1911.pdf

If you go to Page 16, it lists under 'Ongoing Work':

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Examination of the Department's and the FBI's Compliance with Legal Requirements and Policies in Applications Filed with the U.S. Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court Relating to a certain U.S. Person

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which is the FISA Abuse Investigation. However, when you click on the link on Page 16 to show actual 'Ongoing Work', the FISA Abuse Investigation is not listed. My interpretation is that this means the actual OIG FISA Abuse Investigation was completed prior to September 30 but was still pending its final report. If my assessment is correct, then that figure of 104 open criminal or administrative investigations of alleged misconduct has nothing to do with the FISA Abuse Investigation.

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/albertonardelli/joseph-mifsud-passport

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While the world was looking for Joseph Mifsud, the Maltese professor who allegedly delivered word of Hillary Clinton's stolen emails to Donald Trump's campaign, his passport and wallet sat for 17 months in a lost-and-found office in a Portuguese airport.

The items were found by police in a picturesque coastal town in Madeira, a Portuguese island off the coast of Morocco that's popular with tourists and best known for being the birthplace of soccer superstar Cristiano Ronaldo. The passport and wallet were found on Aug. 5, 2017, some three months before Mifsud disappeared from public view and six months after he was questioned by FBI officers investigating Russian interference in the 2016 election.

The bizarre discovery, reported here for the first time, is the latest crumb encountered on the trail of the elusive academic.

A police report reviewed by BuzzFeed News shows that Malta's embassy in Lisbon was notified of the missing passport on Jan. 24 this year. But a senior Maltese official said that authorities back in Malta did not become aware that a passport belonging to Mifsud had been found in Portugal until late October.

It's not known whether the items were dumped on purpose or simply mislaid.

Portuguese police said the passport and wallet had been sent to Madeira airport after being found in the town of Cmara de Lobos, and the Maltese embassy was only informed once the time period for them to be claimed had expired......

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My interpretation: Mifsud began traveling on a fake passport = living under an assumed name following his FBI interview.

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My interpretation: Mifsud began traveling on a fake passport = living under an assumed name following his FBI interview.

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That's most likely. BUT...he might also be hanging out with Jimmy Hoffa.

drcrinum said:

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I know so very little about Sperry's tweet, since I'm not sure Sperry is accurate, and secondly, I don't know what "misconduct" entails. The very first emotion was "complete, and utter BS".

Anytime an employee of the US government helps start a coup with a false intelligence write-up, he should be fired, indicted, and hopefully end up in court. I would have stronger words if I thought "misconduct" will be his only punishment.

Candidly, if that's all an employee of the intelligence services gets, then the barn door is wide open for wonderful tales of espionage and set-ups. Reps would have no choice but to jump on that train.

Bird93 said:

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Quote:

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My interpretation: Mifsud began traveling on a fake passport = living under an assumed name following his FBI interview.

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That's most likely. BUT...he might also be hanging out with Jimmy Hoffa.

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sleeping under the dirt?

Would that surprise you to learn? Wouldn't me.

Horowitz is the point guard in this operation...



His previous efforts have given me no reason to believe he will fail to do his job.

What I hope for from Durham is that he uses the pass coming in from Horowitz and attack the basket with a backboard-breaking dunk rather than a layup for a low-level set of scalps.

fullback44 said:

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Bird93 said:

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Quote:

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My interpretation: Mifsud began traveling on a fake passport = living under an assumed name following his FBI interview.

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That's most likely. BUT...he might also be hanging out with Jimmy Hoffa.

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sleeping under the dirt?

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There are spooks and then there are undercover spooks who can disappear at the drop of a hat. Mifsud doesn't strike me as the latter. If he went underground, he had help and a lot of it.

will25u said:

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Strange...stops NSA use abuse, warns DJT about Tower being bugged/tapped (?), testifies before Congress, retires and then disappears into the crowd. What's up with that????? Reluctant patriot????? Undercover conspirator????? Totally disinterested, doesn't care - - how can one just "drop out"?????

https://www.wsj.com/articles/adam-schiff-is-watching-11575591692?shareToken=stf82006f69db046469de36ee64a8fa8d5

(not paywalled at this link for me)

Very intriguing read by Kim Strassel. Schiff may have set himself up for legal suits over his phone-call records grab. Hopefully Nunes or someone else will sue him.

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2019/12/rudy-giuliani-meets-with-ukrainian-lawmaker-andrey-derkach-who-revealed-burisma-holdings-paid-joe-biden-900000-for-lobbying/

Older reference article:
https://en.interfax.com.ua/news/press-conference/617936.html

Things are not looking good for Biden. Note: The above is not Biden Jr.

Deats said:

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