Bongino was on Levin's Fox show tonight and agreed with you guys on Pete and Lisa. He thinks they are cooperating with the investigation.

aggiehawg said:

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Contreras? Uhmm, no. He's under Chief Justice Roberts and the Supervisory FISC Judge Collyer. Not DOJ.

Makes no sense.

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I think they are concealing Oleg Deripaska and how he was key in Mueller framing this case against Manafort. He's not mentioned in the manafort indictment, but is clearly part of Mueller's case against Manafort.

RoscoePColtrane said:

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aggiehawg said:

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Contreras? Uhmm, no. He's under Chief Justice Roberts and the Supervisory FISC Judge Collyer. Not DOJ.

Makes no sense.

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I think they are concealing Oleg Deripaska and how he was key in Mueller framing this case against Manafort. He's not mentioned in the manafort indictment, but is clearly part of Mueller's case against Manafort.

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Again, makes no sense. Labeling Deripaska as a counter-intel asset gets him killed by Putin. No reason for him to turn against Manafort, just to please Mueller.

Russians don't take a dump without a plan.

Comment was made about 5 minutes before the end of the show FYI.

aggiehawg said:

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RoscoePColtrane said:

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aggiehawg said:

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Contreras? Uhmm, no. He's under Chief Justice Roberts and the Supervisory FISC Judge Collyer. Not DOJ.

Makes no sense.

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I think they are concealing Oleg Deripaska and how he was key in Mueller framing this case against Manafort. He's not mentioned in the manafort indictment, but is clearly part of Mueller's case against Manafort.

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Again, makes no sense. Labeling Deripaska as a counter-intel asset gets him killed by Putin. No reason for him to turn against Manafort, just to please Mueller.

Russians don't take a dump without a plan.

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Wouldn't Carter Page (former FBI informant) be a possibility, since he was the so-called "target" of the FISA surveillance?

Why was Page chosen? Who provided the intel that made him a suspect? Who composed and approved the applications?

VaultingChemist said:

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Wouldn't Carter Page (former FBI informant) be a possibility, since he was the so-called "target" of the FISA surveillance?

Why was Page chosen? Who provided the intel that made him a suspect? Who composed and approved the applications?

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My theory is Brennan served up Page for the patsy to bootstrap the FISA warrant to wiretap Trump Tower.

RoscoePColtrane said:

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Interesting how Deripaska's name periodically resurfaces on this thread.
Well, perhaps he will show up for McCain's funeral (If you don't remember, think yacht party off Montenegro in 2008 for McCain's 70th birthday; Rick Davis, Manafort's business partner, was there too since he was McCain's Campaign Manager.)

RoscoePColtrane said:

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VaultingChemist said:

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Wouldn't Carter Page (former FBI informant) be a possibility, since he was the so-called "target" of the FISA surveillance?

Why was Page chosen? Who provided the intel that made him a suspect? Who composed and approved the applications?

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My theory is Brennan served up Page for the patsy to bootstrap the FISA warrant to wiretap Trump Tower.

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Brennan, Clapper, Kerry, Comey, Lynch, McCabe, etc., ...

The list of hit(men) keeps on a comin'...

Andrew McCarthy on fire these days. Nailing the fact that redactions are being done to cover up Justice Department misconduct. And there are some judges these days that aren't falling for it.

Quote:

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They tell us that their lack of transparency is necessary for the protection of national security, vital intelligence, and investigative operations. But what we find out is that they were concealing their own questionable judgments and conflicting explanations for their actions; their use of foreign-intelligence and criminal-investigative authorities to investigate Michael Flynn, Trump's top campaign supporter and former national-security adviser; and their explicitly stated belief that Flynn did not lie in the FBI interview for which Special Counsel Robert Mueller has since prosecuted him on false-statements charges.

It is simply ridiculous for President Trump to continue bloviating about this situation on Twitter and in friendly media interviews, and for congressional Republicans to continue pretending that the problem is Justice Department and FBI leadership as if Trump were not responsible for his own administration's actions. The president has not only the authority but the duty to ensure that his subordinates honor lawful disclosure requests from Congress.

What happened with these redactions is inexcusable.

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Quote:

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Justice and the Bureau previously insisted that the sky would fall if Congress forced the release of an Intelligence Committee report on government abuse of foreign-intelligence surveillance powers. To the contrary, we learned that the FBI and DOJ had used the unverified Steele dossier to obtain surveillance warrants on at least one person tied to the Trump campaign, in contravention of express guidelines that "only documented and verified information may be used to support FBI applications to the [FISA] court" (see Nunes's March 1 letter to Attorney General Jeff Sessions). In addition, we learned that the FISA court was not told that the dossier was a Clinton campaign opposition-research project, and that its author, Christopher Steele, had been terminated as an informant for lying to the FBI about his contacts with the media.

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https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/05/russia-report-redactions-cover-fbi-missteps/

RoscoePColtrane said:

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McCarthy: "It is simply ridiculous for President Trump to continue bloviating about this situation on Twitter and in friendly media interviews, and for congressional Republicans to continue pretending that the problem is Justice Department and FBI leadership as if Trump were not responsible for his own administration's actions. The president has not only the authority but the duty to ensure that his subordinates honor lawful disclosure requests from Congress."

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This. We bag on Sessions and rightfully so ... but Trump is also MIA. C'mon man.

Trump has shown his willingness to fire anyone for anything. The fact that Rosen stein and Muller continue to operate with unchecked power is odd. Combine that with the 5/16/17 meeting between Trump and Muller and none of this makes any sense.

Is it possible that Trump leveraged U1 on Muller so that he would intentionally botch investigations, (which is what has happened with Flynn, Manafort and Russian trolls)?

Bobcat06 said:

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Trump has shown his willingness to fire anyone for anything. The fact that Rosen stein and Muller continue to operate with unchecked power is odd. Combine that with the 5/16/17 meeting between Trump and Muller and none of this makes any sense.

Is it possible that Trump leveraged U1 on Muller so that he would intentionally botch investigations, (which is what has happened with Flynn, Manafort and Russian trolls)?

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Can he "promote" them into special advisor/projects roles and then backfill?

Hopefully after the OIG report comes out, there will be evidence of wrongdoing that those that need to be indicted will be and those that need to be impeached will have that happen as well.

I am a little worried about the report ever coming out though. Every single week, there seems to be some sort of thing that surfaces about the FBI that brings forth another round of issues. Hopefully the report win't be delayed and he has seen all of the information that the report can come out quickly.

It is pretty incredible how quickly a group can be corrupted. I am not sure how the DOJ will be able to save face without some serious restructuring of power and organization.

Mueller has pretty much buried himself in the past week, it may be unrecoverable. Quit watching talking heads and watch what is really going on. Every one of the pending cases are in a bad spot right now. Had Alex van der Zwaan not cut such a swift deal he'd be in position to challenge the non-sense they convicted him on. Mueller is essentially firing himself.

RoscoePColtrane said:

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Mueller has pretty much buried himself in the past week, it may be unrecoverable.

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Just the transcript from the hearing with Judge Ellis makes it unrecoverable. They ded.

What is the latest on the expected release date of the OIG report? Anyone heard?

I love the fact that the left are defending Mueller's appointment with the Appointment of Ken Starr. They fail to point out and conveniently forget that Ken Starr was appointed to investigate and actual crime in where people were convicted and sent to prison. Whitewater Development Scam was a real thing, not some conspiracy theory or propaganda piece. The Clintons were never charged with any crime, but they were directly involved and were suspected. Fifteen other people were convicted of more than 40 crimes, including Jim Guy Tucker, who was removed from office.

• Jim Guy Tucker: Governor of Arkansas at the time, removed from office (fraud, 3 counts)
• John Haley: attorney for Jim Guy Tucker (tax evasion)
• William J. Marks, Sr.: Jim Guy Tucker's business partner (conspiracy)
• Stephen Smith: former Governor Clinton aide (conspiracy to misapply funds). Bill Clinton pardoned.
• Webster Hubbell: Clinton political supporter; U.S. Associate Attorney General; Rose Law Firm partner (embezzlement, fraud)
• Jim McDougal: banker, Clinton political supporter: (18 felonies, varied)
• Susan McDougal: Clinton political supporter (multiple frauds). Bill Clinton pardoned.
• David Hale: banker, self-proclaimed Clinton political supporter: (conspiracy, fraud)
• Neal Ainley: Perry County Bank president (embezzled bank funds for Clinton campaign)
• Chris Wade: Whitewater real estate broker (multiple loan fraud). Bill Clinton pardoned.
• Larry Kuca: Madison real estate agent (multiple loan fraud)
• Robert W. Palmer: Madison appraiser (conspiracy). Bill Clinton pardoned.
• John Latham: Madison Bank CEO (bank fraud)
• Eugene Fitzhugh: Whitewater defendant (multiple bribery)
• Charles Matthews: Whitewater defendant (bribery)

Now what actual crime was present when Mueller was appointed? Collusion? Not a crime... Obstruction? Where? How? When?

Rosenstein has to answer for this, as well as signing a FISA app with known bogus supportive evidence.

RoscoePColtrane said:

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Mueller has pretty much buried himself in the past week, it may be unrecoverable. Quit watching talking heads and watch what is really going on. Every one of the pending cases are in a bad spot right now. Had Alex van der Zwaan not cut such a swift deal he'd be in position to challenge the non-sense they convicted him on. Mueller is essentially firing himself.

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Is there any reason for Mueller to make these moves? It's been a interesting theory that the past couple moves made by the SC were to goad trump into firing RR or Mueller. They get to go down as pariahs and heroes. Plus the fall out might actually hurt trump.

Trump hasnt bit yet and I wonder if Mueller is setting up a "partisan" angle. This R judge "protected Russians", Rs in Congress "interfered in the investigation". Blah blah. He exits trying to do as much damage as possible? Idk he seems to be sandbagging the criminal side. Heck maybe he is only in place to listen to calls so Obama and Kerry can run around the world and convince other countries to #resist.

Tailgate88 said:

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What is the latest on the expected release date of the OIG report? Anyone heard?

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I think we are still shooting for early February, 2018

RoscoePColtrane said:

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Rosenstein has to answer for this, as well as signing a FISA app with known bogus supportive evidence.

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Judge Ellis is the kind of guy that will take the unredacted August Roesnstein memo and stick it on the case docket when he sees that there's no national security related information but instead its just redacted to cover up wrongdoing in the DOJ. I'm waiting.

blindey said:

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RoscoePColtrane said:

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Rosenstein has to answer for this, as well as signing a FISA app with known bogus supportive evidence.

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Judge Ellis is the kind of guy that will take the unredacted August Roesnstein memo and stick it on the case docket when he sees that there's no national security related information but instead its just redacted to cover up wrongdoing in the DOJ. I'm waiting.

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He can't do that if Mueller invokes CIPA, though, if I'm understanding that Act correctly. Or am I wrong?

hbtheduce said:

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RoscoePColtrane said:

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Mueller has pretty much buried himself in the past week, it may be unrecoverable. Quit watching talking heads and watch what is really going on. Every one of the pending cases are in a bad spot right now. Had Alex van der Zwaan not cut such a swift deal he'd be in position to challenge the non-sense they convicted him on. Mueller is essentially firing himself.

---

Is there any reason for Mueller to make these moves? It's been a interesting theory that the past couple moves made by the SC were to goad trump into firing RR or Mueller. They get to go down as pariahs and heroes. Plus the fall out might actually hurt trump.

Trump hasnt bit yet and I wonder if Mueller is setting up a "partisan" angle. This R judge "protected Russians", Rs in Congress "interfered in the investigation". Blah blah. He exits trying to do as much damage as possible? Idk he seems to be sandbagging the criminal side. Heck maybe he is only in place to listen to calls so Obama and Kerry can run around the world and convince other countries to #resist.

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He has boxed himself in a corner. Rolling the dice that they could pull this garbage off, was a gamble. Odds were good, when they have the media weaponized, an AG recused and and old ally in his place. A staff dedicated to the cause over forcing Trump out of office, and the unfettered power available to him. But two unpredictable things happened. Horowitz being the watchdog he has been. And three sitting judges doing their jobs, and scrutinizing the prosecution.

The moves from here on out it is survival.

From McCarthy:

Quote:

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Plus, Kislyak was a foreign agent subject to FISA surveillance, so the FBI had recordings of his communications with Flynn and knew that Flynn had done nothing improper. (It has been presumed that Flynn's communications with Kislyak were intercepted because Kislyak, not Flynn, was the subject of a FISA warrant; now, with confirmation that Flynn was the subject of a counterintelligence investigation, we may need to revisit that presumption.)

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Way ahead of you there, Andy, weren't we Roscoe?

A few days ago I suggested Trump should ignore DOJ for a moment and attack this on the intelligence end. Get the NSA and DNI to reveal how many FISA warrants were issued on his associates and family, plus a log of unmasking requests done during the transition on his associates and family.

aggiehawg said:

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From McCarthy:

Quote:

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Plus, Kislyak was a foreign agent subject to FISA surveillance, so the FBI had recordings of his communications with Flynn and knew that Flynn had done nothing improper. (It has been presumed that Flynn's communications with Kislyak were intercepted because Kislyak, not Flynn, was the subject of a FISA warrant; now, with confirmation that Flynn was the subject of a counterintelligence investigation, we may need to revisit that presumption.)

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Way ahead of you there, Andy, weren't we Roscoe?

A few days ago I suggested Trump should ignore DOJ for a moment and attack this on the intelligence end. Get the NSA and DNI to reveal how many FISA warrants were issued on his associates and family, plus a log of unmasking requests done during the transition on his associates and family.

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Who is the Investigator for the intelligence groups? Do they have an OIG department? It seems like Adm. Rogers got that ball rolling on his way out.

aggiehawg said:

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blindey said:

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RoscoePColtrane said:

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Rosenstein has to answer for this, as well as signing a FISA app with known bogus supportive evidence.

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Judge Ellis is the kind of guy that will take the unredacted August Roesnstein memo and stick it on the case docket when he sees that there's no national security related information but instead its just redacted to cover up wrongdoing in the DOJ. I'm waiting.

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He can't do that if Mueller invokes CIPA, though, if I'm understanding that Act correctly. Or am I wrong?

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It's not that he can't. CIPA is there to protect the government from having to disclose classified info to defendants. The moving party when "classified information" is in play is the government. In Manafort's case, there's been no CIPA motion filed. Remember that CIPA requires notice and a hearing.

They're trying to protect the Roesnstein August memo as though it is entitled to CIPA treatment without notice and a hearing. They just redacted the document and and told everyone that asked to go **** in their collective hats.

So here's the dilemma: if they don't file a CIPA motion, they don't get CIPA protection. There are other avenues available for keeping the memo under seal, but I'm not exploring those here.

If they do file a CIPA motion, they get to put on a hearing and the judge has to issue an opinion, "As to each item of classified information, the court shall set forth in writing the basis for its determination." Or, to put it a little more simply, they gotta tell the judge why and go into significant detail. My suspicion is that team Mueller's truly bad acts (additional FISA - type access/abuse, strategic leaking, etc?) are all hiding in those details.

So just eyeballing it, but I think that team Mueller has a Hobson's choice on whether to seek CIPA protection. Because after all, they may file their motion, have a hearing, and have the judge tell them, "no."

Quote:

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Who is the Investigator for the intelligence groups? Do they have an OIG department? It seems like Adm. Rogers got that ball rolling on his way out.

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Robert Storch.

Appointed in December

Aw crap! Here we go:

Quote:

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Earlier in his career, Mr. Storch also worked as a federal prosecutor in the Northern District of New York, most recently serving as the Deputy Criminal Chief and Counsel to the U.S. Attorney. He was also posted overseas for two years as a Department of Justice Resident Legal Advisor in Ukraine.

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Thanks. I was unclear on what the judge could and couldn't reveal once CIPA was invoked.

Line Ate Member said:

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Hopefully after the OIG report comes out, there will be evidence of wrongdoing that those that need to be indicted will be and those that need to be impeached will have that happen as well.

I am a little worried about the report ever coming out though. Every single week, there seems to be some sort of thing that surfaces about the FBI that brings forth another round of issues. Hopefully the report win't be delayed and he has seen all of the information that the report can come out quickly.

It is pretty incredible how quickly a group can be corrupted. I am not sure how the DOJ will be able to save face without some serious restructuring of power and organization.

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Patience. The longer it takes to come out, the worse it is on the Dems in the midterms.