aggiehawg said:

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Here's my theory. Wyden (and Rand Paul) have done MORE than anyone else to try and rein in FISA abuse. The two of them have been excellent at trying to protect our 4th amendment rights. Their efforts go all the way back to the Snowden revelations.

Perhaps Wyden senses now is the moment to try and kill FISA for good.

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Makes some sense, I guess. I don't want FISA killed completely. Really need to tighten up the procedure, though.

A lot.

Bigger concern for me is getting the FBI under control. They are the ones running amok on more than just FISA warrants.

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When things calm down there is a very important discussion to be had on this. My viewpoint, briefly, is that if serious serious reforms aren't made, -including- to the NSA, then we have to get rid of it. It's not worth it. The way that they vacuum up all data everywhere (as Snowden said, "They are intent on making every conversation and every form of behaviour in the world known to them"), and then just fantasize that people won't abuse it...is a risk that cannot be taken, not in America.

aggiehawg said:

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Who is NavyJack?? Is he like a Q or Mega type person?? (Without the stupid code crap?)

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He's a former spook (I think) who still lobbies in DC and has access to House Buildings and personnel... HOWEVER, his tone has changed somewhat in the last 30-45 days so there is speculation the real USNJack is no longer in command of the twitter account and that it's a blackhat running it now in disguise to sew disinformation.

So take it with a grain of salt.

I still read it because I am studying the posts, and also because I like to get disharmonious information so I can at least check myself on confirmation bias.

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Current and former officials within the Department of Justice (national security division) and FBI (counterintelligence division) are at the heart of the malfeasance. Those officials have a vested interest in trying to stop the public from seeing what took place. They are aided by a political media apparatus who are attempting to shield the corrupt officials due to aligned political opposition against the current President.

The corrupt FBI officials -remaining inside the DOJ/FBI- know they can rely on their media allies to assist them in keeping what took place hidden from public review. Today, those FBI entities attempt to cloud the Nunes memo and shape a narrative. Their release:

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The FBI takes seriously its obligations to the FISA Court and its compliance with procedures overseen by career professionals in the Department of Justice and the FBI. We are committed to working with the appropriate oversight entities to ensure the continuing integrity of the FISA process.

With regard to the House Intelligence Committee's memorandum, the FBI was provided a limited opportunity to review this memo the day before the committee voted to release it. As expressed during our initial review, we have grave concerns about material omissions of fact that fundamentally impact the memo's accuracy.

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Chairman Nunes responds.

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"Having stonewalled Congress' demands for information for nearly a year, it's no surprise to see the FBI and DOJ issue spurious objections to allowing the American people to see information related to surveillance abuses at these agencies.

The FBI is intimately familiar with 'material omissions' with respect to their presentations to both Congress and the courts, and they are welcome to make public, to the greatest extent possible, all the information they have on these abuses.

Regardless, it's clear that top officials used unverified information in a court document to fuel a counter-intelligence investigation during an American political campaign. Once the truth gets out, we can begin taking steps to ensure our intelligence agencies and courts are never misused like this again."

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it is important to remember, what the public really needs to see is the evidence behind the memo.

So long as corrupt officials, and media, can dismiss the claims of the Nunes memo, they will continue to do so. Ultimately and hopefully, the opposition to the memo will create momentum for the underlying content to be declassified and released.

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As I thought...

The dems don't REALLY care if the memo is released; it could take out a few bureaucrats and FBI/DOJ higher ups, but won't touch any Democrat Reps... plus they can just say everything in the memo is heresay without corroborating the actual 1.X million documents behind it.

But if the public on both sides demands to see the underlying documentation, they will be up chit creek...

SpreadsheetAg said:

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it is important to remember, what the public really needs to see is the evidence behind the memo.

So long as corrupt officials, and media, can dismiss the claims of the Nunes memo, they will continue to do so. Ultimately and hopefully, the opposition to the memo will create momentum for the underlying content to be declassified and released.

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As I thought...

The dems don't REALLY care if the memo is released; it could take out a few bureaucrats and FBI/DOJ higher ups, but won't touch any Democrat Reps... plus they can just say everything in the memo is heresay without corroborating the actual 1.X million documents behind it.

But if the public on both sides demands to see the underlying documentation, they will be up chit creek...

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Wouldn't the IG report corroborate e everything without having a full document dump?

GCP12 said:

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reb, said:

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Senator Wyden sees Graham, raises. Who the HELL saw that coming.

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WTF is going on

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He's talking about the Kennedy assassination...it's as obvious as the freckle on Comey's nose.

WestAustinAg said:

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GCP12 said:

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reb, said:

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Senator Wyden sees Graham, raises. Who the HELL saw that coming.

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WTF is going on

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He's talking about the Kennedy assassination...it's as obvious as the freckle on Comey's nose.

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Ted Cruz's dad is heading back to Cuba as we speak!!

https://truepundit.com/trumps-nuclear-option-try-fix-corrupted-fbi-can-cut-like-pie/

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One White House insider said chatter among decision makers emerged in recent weeks plotting the future for the FBI. The official said FBI Director Christopher Wray could end up functioning more like a CEO downsizing a parent company, splintering FBI resources to other subsidiaries (agencies).

FBI's counter-terrorism goes to Homeland Security.
FBI's narcotics investigations goes to DEA.
FBI's fugitive task force goes to U.S. Marshals and so on.

With President Donald Trump's vast corporate background, this could serve as a sensible remedy to neutralizing the FBI's bad actors. And boosting public confidence in federal law enforcement.

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FireAg said:

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SpreadsheetAg said:

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it is important to remember, what the public really needs to see is the evidence behind the memo.

So long as corrupt officials, and media, can dismiss the claims of the Nunes memo, they will continue to do so. Ultimately and hopefully, the opposition to the memo will create momentum for the underlying content to be declassified and released.

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As I thought...

The dems don't REALLY care if the memo is released; it could take out a few bureaucrats and FBI/DOJ higher ups, but won't touch any Democrat Reps... plus they can just say everything in the memo is heresay without corroborating the actual 1.X million documents behind it.

But if the public on both sides demands to see the underlying documentation, they will be up chit creek...

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Wouldn't the IG report corroborate e everything without having a full document dump?

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hawg and Roscoe have drilled it into me the IG report focuses on Clinton email investigation where as the House Memo is focused on FISA abuses. Don't think there is a ton of overlap between the two investigations.

Or I could be totally wrong and in that case I'll blame it on a cold.

akm91 said:

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FireAg said:

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SpreadsheetAg said:

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it is important to remember, what the public really needs to see is the evidence behind the memo.

So long as corrupt officials, and media, can dismiss the claims of the Nunes memo, they will continue to do so. Ultimately and hopefully, the opposition to the memo will create momentum for the underlying content to be declassified and released.

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As I thought...

The dems don't REALLY care if the memo is released; it could take out a few bureaucrats and FBI/DOJ higher ups, but won't touch any Democrat Reps... plus they can just say everything in the memo is heresay without corroborating the actual 1.X million documents behind it.

But if the public on both sides demands to see the underlying documentation, they will be up chit creek...

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Wouldn't the IG report corroborate e everything without having a full document dump?

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hawg and Roscoe have drilled it into me the IG report focuses on Clinton email investigation where as the House Memo is focused on FISA abuses. Don't think there is a ton of overlap between the two investigations.

Or I could be totally wrong and in that case I'll blame it on a cold.

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There is overlap because it is the same people being investigated that were on both cases.

FireAg said:

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SpreadsheetAg said:

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Quote:

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it is important to remember, what the public really needs to see is the evidence behind the memo.

So long as corrupt officials, and media, can dismiss the claims of the Nunes memo, they will continue to do so. Ultimately and hopefully, the opposition to the memo will create momentum for the underlying content to be declassified and released.

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As I thought...

The dems don't REALLY care if the memo is released; it could take out a few bureaucrats and FBI/DOJ higher ups, but won't touch any Democrat Reps... plus they can just say everything in the memo is heresay without corroborating the actual 1.X million documents behind it.

But if the public on both sides demands to see the underlying documentation, they will be up chit creek...

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Wouldn't the IG report corroborate e everything without having a full document dump?

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Yes, from what I understand the memo is based on the same documentation that the IG report is being made.

From what I understand, the whole thing about the Memo is that its a teaser + chapter 1 for the OIG report.

You are correct.

What is confusing is that the main players are the same in both. Committing obstruction of justice on Hillary's behalf and then abusing the FISA process to tarnish Trump...on Hillary's behalf.

GCP12 said:

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WestAustinAg said:

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aggiehawg said:

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Comey also has a tell with his hands. At first I thought it was a tick but it's not fully involuntary. I look at it as he's steadying himself when he stumbles.

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You mean when he puts his hands palms down on the table?

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They obviously don't know who the gang of eight is actually.

just noticed the timestamps. were those just RTed?

reb, said:

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just noticed the timestamps. were those just RTed?

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Yes he retweeted himself.

They're desperate. Hope Trump comes through.

Was wanting guidance from the more knowledgeable..

Reports of McCabe changing 302s. Could be that

GCP12 said:

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Was wanting guidance from the more knowledgeable..

Reports of McCabe changing 302s. Could be that

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If I may presume, I think she's suggesting it was actually the FISA warrant and she was being sarcastic.

Fruit of the poisonous tree.

GCP12 said:

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Was wanting guidance from the more knowledgeable..

Reports of McCabe changing 302s. Could be that

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The judge in Flynn's case recused himself. He's also on the FISA court (FISC). That's what I was referring to.

3 Toed Pete said:

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So mueller just now found out the FISA warrant was tainted?

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This is why I have a hard time believing Mueller might be a white hat. This and the pre-dawn no-knock raid on a cooperating witness's home.

BUT, remember who did the interview with Flynn, Peter Strzok. Mueller might be double screwed here.

This vaguely veiled smoke grenade the FBI has lobbed out is a bluff and meant to try and make Trump pause. However he has access to the underlying documents just as Nunes did. Trying to cause him to double check everything and run all the traps again to make sure it is solid. Because Trump knows he can't be caught up in putting out a fabricated garbage or his days of claiming fake news is over and every exaggeration he's made or verbal misstep will be in neon lights for the term.

Read this FBI official closely it's not calling the memo a lie lust throwing a little smoke at it to give the WH pause. Nunes has thrown down the gauntlet saying if something is inaccurate prove it, show your evidence to disprove me or shut the hell up.

So I'm sure Kelly has a fine tooth comb going over it again, but the Memo is coming. The FBI dropped all the Reckless and Dangerous talk, and all the national security fears. Now it's just claiming it's omissions, which I'm sure the highly classified details are omitted. Nunes is saying Show it, unclassify it and prove me wrong. This is just a BS delay tactic.

Multiple releases and stories, along with fake news adding their two cents according to sources close to the FBI, which is garbage.

akm91 said:

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hawg and Roscoe have drilled it into me the IG report focuses on Clinton email investigation where as the House Memo is focused on FISA abuses. Don't think there is a ton of overlap between the two investigations.

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Respectively disagree. While OIG's investigation started as a Clinton Email investigation ... it then morphed into a 2016 election investigation (within the DOJ and FBI). The OIG has a much broader and wider-reaching auditory responsibility than just the Clinton Email investigation. The OIG investigation responsibility absolutely includes any FISA abuses by the FBI or DOJ.

benchmark said:

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akm91 said:

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hawg and Roscoe have drilled it into me the IG report focuses on Clinton email investigation where as the House Memo is focused on FISA abuses. Don't think there is a ton of overlap between the two investigations.

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Respectively disagree. While OIG's investigation started as a Clinton Email investigation ... it then morphed into a 2016 election investigation (within the DOJ and FBI). The OIG has a much broader and wider-reaching auditory responsibility than just the Clinton Email investigation. The OIG investigation responsibility absolutely includes any FISA abuses by the FBI or DOJ.

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This is correct from my standpoint. The OIC has no narrow scope, he is all encompassing.

The OIG was called for by Cummings who flipped the hell out when Comey torpedoed hillary in his first press conference. Then the second one on the Weiner Laptop. Cummings raised holy hell and wanted the IG to go after Comey for breaking protocol and going to the press like that, I'm guessing from pressure from Lynch. It took a little bit before they started but Horowitz was going all the way back with his investigation.

benchmark said:

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akm91 said:

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hawg and Roscoe have drilled it into me the IG report focuses on Clinton email investigation where as the House Memo is focused on FISA abuses. Don't think there is a ton of overlap between the two investigations.

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Respectively disagree. While OIG's investigation started as a Clinton Email investigation ... it then morphed into a 2016 election investigation (within the DOJ and FBI). The OIG has a much broader and wider-reaching auditory responsibility than just the Clinton Email investigation. The OIG investigation responsibility absolutely includes any FISA abuses by the FBI or DOJ.

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You might be right that it morphed into something else precisely because the same players were involved in both. Investigate one and stumble into another.

benchmark said:

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akm91 said:

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hawg and Roscoe have drilled it into me the IG report focuses on Clinton email investigation where as the House Memo is focused on FISA abuses. Don't think there is a ton of overlap between the two investigations.

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Respectively disagree. While OIG's investigation started as a Clinton Email investigation ... it then morphed into a 2016 election investigation (within the DOJ and FBI). The OIG has a much broader and wider-reaching auditory responsibility than just the Clinton Email investigation. The OIG investigation responsibility absolutely includes any FISA abuses by the FBI or DOJ.

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I tend to agree with the above and to my understanding the OIG is not limited in its scope to a specific activity, although it may prioritize certain activities. It is an investigation into the actions of the departments it oversees, and is open-ended as to what it uncovers in that oversight.

Playing this forward -

Let's say Trump releases the memo tomorrow. And obviously it shows that the FBI knew the Steele dossier was not only false, but that the DNC and the FBI paid for it.

Schiff and the FBI only have "You don't have all the facts!!!! There is a bunch of other classified information that isn't in that memo that we can't show you because it's classified!!!"

How does that play out? Granted, I can't put myself in the mind of liberals, and I'm sure the #resist folks would be more than satisfied with the #itsclassified movement - but I just don't think that plays with the other 75% of Americans.

And what sort of spot does that put Wray in? What does he do?