the answer as to why EDVA didn't move on it is pretty clear to me. Too much political fallout for Obama and Clintons.

RoscoePColtrane said:

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Please point to where I said "they had everything" The Special counsel hasn't uncover any new revelation of evidence on him, They didn't need the SC to find anything they have dug up recently.

Inserting something I didn't say into a conversation, and accuse me a saying it, is what I call conjecture.

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"The Special counsel hasn't uncover any new revelation of evidence on him"

evidence is all that matters. You specifically claimed SC didn't get any new evidence.

BMX Bandit said:

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RoscoePColtrane said:

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Please point to where I said "they had everything" The Special counsel hasn't uncover any new revelation of evidence on him, They didn't need the SC to find anything they have dug up recently.

Inserting something I didn't say into a conversation, and accuse me a saying it, is what I call conjecture.

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"The Special counsel hasn't uncover any new revelation of evidence on him"

evidence is all that matters. You specifically claimed SC didn't get any new ********* evidence.

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FIFY context matters.

BMX Bandit said:

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the answer as to why EDVA didn't move on it is pretty clear to me. Too much political fallout for Obama and Clintons.

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How so? What did Manafort's tax evasion and bank fraud have to do with the Clintons or Obama?

The only charge that would boomerang back on The Podesta Group would be the FARA violations since they were directly contracted to help with the Ukraine stuff by Manafort.

you answered your own question. any of those claims opens up the door to the Clintons and Obamas

that doesn't make any sense.

I'd have to agree. Charging Manafort could risk the defense calling those guys as witnesses to something or other, and at the time that would generate the headlines needed to make it politically unfeasible. That's all it took for Manafort to "buy" some security is have a tie-in with the Clintons and Obama.

BMX Bandit said:

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you answered your own question. any of those claims opens up the door to the Clintons and Obamas

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Where? FARA hadn't been prosecuted since the 60s, so leave that out of the equation.

What is the connection between Manafort and the Clintons and/or Obama?

aggiehawg said:

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BMX Bandit said:

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you answered your own question. any of those claims opens up the door to the Clintons and Obamas

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Where? FARA hadn't been prosecuted since the 60s, so leave that out of the equation.

What is the connection between Manafort and the Clintons and/or Obama?

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the connection is Manafort to Craig, Podesta, etc.

MouthBQ98 said:

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I'd have to agree. Charging Manafort could risk the defense calling those guys as witnesses to something or other, and at the time that would generate the headlines needed to make it politically unfeasible. That's all it took for Manafort to "buy" some security is have a tie-in with the Clintons and Obama.

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Unless Podesta was an authorized signer on Manafort's overseas bank accounts, I still cannot see how.

Unless the suggestion is that Manafort has been around long enough to know where some skeletons were buried and had enough to go gray mail on them?

Can't help you then, outside of giving you a Spanish translation of the same thing I'm at a loss.

It's more of an optics thing for media than a criminal thing. "Close ties", "business associates", etc. I think it is fair to say they wanted to keep a clear of it entirely.

I think it is also reasonable to conjecture that the expanded reach of the full powers of a counterintelligence operation to data mine beyond the conventional 4th amendment limits has turned up additional leads or evidence in this case.

Judge Ellis is a witty guy. I'd loved to have been a Bailiff in his court.

Asonye was in the court at 8:00 for a quick plea at the bench, prior to this trial resuming this morning.

Quote:

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"Doing double duty, Mr. Asonye," Judge T.S. Ellis III joked at the outset. Later he asked if Asonye was familiar with a recent Supreme Court ruling on restitution.

Asonye, whom Ellis has chided and interrupted throughout the Manafort trial, responded, "I'm always available to be educated by the court."

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By the tweets coming out of the court, the jury should be asleep by now, they have been presenting the tax records one page at a time, until told by the Rocket Man to move it along.

Philip Ayliff, testified that he dealt a fair amount with Rick Gates, who helped collect information for Manafort's business and personal tax returns. Ayliff said Gates never told him to hide info from Manafort

RoscoePColtrane said:

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By the tweets coming out of the court, the jury should be asleep by now, they have been presenting the tax records one page at a time, until told by the Rocket Man to move it along.

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This is where the prosecution should have started.

aggiehawg said:

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BMX Bandit said:

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you answered your own question. any of those claims opens up the door to the Clintons and Obamas

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Where? FARA hadn't been prosecuted since the 60s, so leave that out of the equation.

What is the connection between Manafort and the Clintons and/or Obama?

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Sloan also served as Associate White House Counsel to President Bill Clinton.

blindey said:

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RoscoePColtrane said:

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By the tweets coming out of the court, the jury should be asleep by now, they have been presenting the tax records one page at a time, until told by the Rocket Man to move it along.

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This is where the prosecution should have started.

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Yeah, they backed this one in pretty badly.

The highlight of today will be the Birthday Cake that was wheeled into the Jury room durning recess for lunch. Today is Juror #9 birthday is the report.

Philip Ayliff testified about an email from Manafort asking him to tell a bank (UBS) that a 5th Ave. apt Manafort owned was being used as a personal residence. But the CPA said it wasn't, and that he wouldn't tell UBS that it was.

Quote:

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"Nobody intending to violate the law would leave the evidence around for his accountant to find it," Kevin Downing said in court.

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Quote:

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"There's a trail in these documents that would lead to the truth, and somebody who intended to violate the law wouldn't have done that." Judge Ellis said in a summary form of agreement

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SIA discussed: Was the whole Rosenstein/Manafort connection from years ago (according to Judge Nap) just a diversionary tactic? I haven't found any evidence of that at all.

https://lawandcrime.com/awkward/judge-ellis-loses-all-patience-with-prosecutors-and-ends-court-early-over-major-screw-up/

Quote:

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Judge Ellis Loses Patience with Mueller Prosecutors and Ends Court Early Over Screw-Up

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After reading this article, it sounds like Team Mueller is trying to give Judge Ellis a heart attack.

aggiehawg said:

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I have been thinking about my experiences with owners/bookkeepers/accountants. My first job as a lawyer, the Managing Partner was an accountant/tax attorney. Been with the IRS/Ernst & Young before going into private practice. Very smart guy and in his mid-40's at the time. Seasoned.

But when it came to the day-to-day accounting for operation of the law firm, he relied on the bookkeeper. True story time. One year, the bookkeeper, single woman who loved to party, was taken out by her friend for the bookkeeper's birthday. The next day (afternoon) she woke up in Mexico. Ooops!

But here was the problem, it was a Friday and payday and she had not done payroll before she left. Double Ooops!! The accountant/tax attorney/managing partner had no idea how to do it, nor did anyone else. This was back when "bankers' hours" was a thing and banks closed for business in the early afternoon. But fortunately, this guy was an afficionado of large old fashioned safes and had one in the office. In it he always kept $50,000 cash in case he ever had to bail out a large client (or so he said was the reason).

So he paid everyone in cash, no withholding, just their gross pay for the period and figured that would be the bookkeeper's problem to sort it all out when she returned. And no, she wasn't fired. She had worked for the firm for 15 years.

Point being, even the most educated, smart, knowledgeable people come to rely on other people, sometimes to their detriment.

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This is not unusual at all (except for waking up in Mexico). If my payroll department no-showed, I'd have a hell of a time processing payroll myself. Same would be true for the CFO of any decent sized organization

I am actually beginning to feel sorry for Asonye. Calling a witness out of order, asking questions about definitions that have already been stipulated, asking expert witness questions without qualifying the witness as an expert is like the trifecta of tripping over your own d***, backing up stepping on it again then tripping again. OUCH!

And most of that was a direct result of calling the witness out of order because he wasn't prepared for that witness at that time and tried to take shortcuts to please the judge. Only to infuriate him even more.

That is one tough judge and the lawyers all have to be on their A game.

RoscoePColtrane said:

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I don't know why they want to enter the attorney's cover letter in the first place. Some type of declaration against interest?

This is sounding more and more like the courtroom out of My Cousin Vinny

RoscoePColtrane said:

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Quote:

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"Nobody intending to violate the law would leave the evidence around for his accountant to find it," Kevin Downing said in court.

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Quote:

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"There's a trail in these documents that would lead to the truth, and somebody who intended to violate the law wouldn't have done that." Judge Ellis said in a summary form of agreement

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This is where I am. Using those foreign bank accounts to wire money directly to companies in the US sure doesn't seem like a guy trying to hide that money from the US.

Quote:

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Asonye asked Paul Manafort's tax documents preparer, for example, about the accounting methods generally used to prepare tax returns, Ellis told him to make the inquiry more specific.

"Why don't you ask him on what basis he prepares them on?" Ellis said.

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Quote:

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Asonye asked broadly about the accountant's role in putting together Manafort's tax return, Ellis cut him off again.

"Of course" the judge said, "Philip Ayliff was involved in putting together the tax return."

Asonye argued he was trying to highlight that Manafort, though, was the one to sign and mail in the document.

"The correct question would be, 'Did you have any role in mailing it in?'" Ellis said.

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Quote:

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Big flare-up came when Asonye tried to enter a piece of evidence that was described inaccurately on the list of exhibits Ellis had been given.

"May we approach," Asonye asked, I can clear up the confusion.:

"Is it a mistake?" the judge shot back, glowering at the attorney. When Asonye responded with only silence, Ellis relented. "All right. Yes. You can," he said.

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Quote:

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Ellis told jurors "Not to worry too much about that episode."

"It's not a big deal," he said. "It's no big mistake." He explained that there "may be an error in the description" of the item that they would soon to be shown.
"These things happen," Ellis said.

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I think I'm enjoying the Ellis smack downs a little too much.

Cross-examination of Philip Ayliff

Quote:

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Downing started by saying he would be going slowly, because "When we talk about these tax and accounting issues, I look over at the jury "

Assistant U.S. Attorney Uzo Asonye cut him off, objecting to that characterization.

Ellis just shot a glare back at the prosecution, and the objection was withdrawn.

Downing asked whether those reporting requirements are sometimes hard to understand.

Ayliff confirmed

He asked Ayliff, whether "it was a lot more complicated than determining whether there was signature control" over a foreign bank account.

Ayliff agreed, saying he was a "generalist" but sometimes roped in other accountants at the firm who specialized in foreign tax issues when dealing with Manafort.

The emails Downing used the prosecutions exhibit "the emails" to prove his point.

Downing said the prosecutors are alleging Manafort had total control over dozens of foreign accounts.

"Were you backed up year in and year out against filing deadlines?" Downing asked.

"Yes," Ayliff said.

"Did you have difficulty getting information?" Downing asked.

"Yes," Ayliff said.

"Primarily that information was provided by Mr. Gates, is that correct?" Downing asked.

"Yes," Ayliff said.

Downing displayed a financial document the prosecution entered into record earlier, atop which sat large block letters proclaiming "This is a loan per Rick Gates call."

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Asonye must feel like a whipped puppy at this point. Weissmann is supposed to be in court, IIRC. Is he going to pull the plug on Asonye? Or is this by design?

aggiehawg said:

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Asonye must feel like a whipped puppy at this point. Weissmann is supposed to be in court, IIRC. Is he going to pull the plug on Asonye? Or is this by design?

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Doesn't Asonye have to stay the lead because he is an actual US attorney and Mueller (team)is trying to act like he's not because that power would require senate confirmation?

Prosecutors called Cindy Laporta testifying under an immunity agreement

Quote:

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Laporta admitted she signed Manafort's tax returns in 2014 and 2015, taking over for Philip Ayliff when he retired from their firm.

Laporta said her firm gave Manafort a letter making clear they were not "auditing or verifying" the information clients provided and while they offered that service, Manafort used the firm only to prepare his returns. She said she gathered information from Manafort, Gates and his bookkeeper, and "Mr. Manafort approved that."


Laporta testified she viewed Gates as Manafort's "assistant."

Asonye asked "Who was in charge?"

Lapota said, "Mr. Manafort was, But Gates often gave her most of the information.


Asoyne scurried to show Laporta a September 2015 email of Manafort forwarding Gates tax documents, which Gates forwarded on to her. 'Is this representative of the chain of command?"

Laporta said, "Yes that was typical of how she would get Manafort's tax documents."

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aggiehawg said:

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Asonye must feel like a whipped puppy at this point. Weissmann is supposed to be in court, IIRC. Is he going to pull the plug on Asonye? Or is this by design?

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No one has noted him present.

Just

Greg Andres (SC), Uzo Asonye (EDVA), Brandon Van Grack (SC), Adam C. Jed (DOJ-MJ), and Michael R. Dreeben (EDVA)