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Along those same lines, I need a blindy, Hawg, ruling on my question. Hawg, you've enlightened me on Durham's inability to release his findings. I want to know what circumstances the finished report COULD be released?

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With a lot of redactions and code names for people not indicted, no grand jury material (until a court would rule otherwise). But for a complete story on the origins of continuation of SpyGate and what became the Mueller investigation, I would wager so much would be redacted that even writing such a report intended for public release would be largely a waste of time.

Durham's investigation has criminal implications. Why would they trivially compromise their cases by dumping evidence to the public far in advance?

MouthBQ98 said:

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Durham's investigation has criminal implications. Why would they trivially compromise their cases by dumping evidence to the public far in advance?

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Well, we certainly hope there will be indictments.

So if the whole Russia Gate scam was a fishing expedition, could that be why the Senate is in a hurry to get a disposition on the impeachment?

If the impeachment is over then the Democrats trying to get the GJ/underlying information is moot. Or that is my thought process.

Thanks, but you're not fun.

Now you've stopped me from F16 legend status.

Well, I'm sure there's a way to accomplish the goal, legally, without giving the report to a Republican Adam Schiff.

will25u said:

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So if the whole Russia Gate scam was a fishing expedition, could that be why the Senate is in a hurry to get a disposition on the impeachment?

If the impeachment is over then the Democrats trying to get the GJ/underlying information is moot. Or that is my thought process.

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It should be moot right now as once the articles of impeachment were passed that was the end of the House sanctioned "inquiry". The House's lawyer, Letter, blowing smoke up the DC Circuit's skirt about additional articles would have more credibility if there were an article already alleging bad conduct on Trump's part with the Mueller investigation. That would have made a stronger case for the release of the grand jury material, in my view.

Why the Lawfare lawyers chose not to go down that path has always puzzled me.

MouthBQ98 said:

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Durham's investigation has criminal implications. Why would they trivially compromise their cases by dumping evidence to the public far in advance?

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Trump gave Barr full authority to declassify related to the Mueller shenanigans/Russia NSD investigation crap. What exactly would the following declassification actions, if published this afternoon, damage in any investigation he's conducting? The truth is, declassifying any of this would wind up making the defense's (any Durham prosecution) task much more onerous; they couldn't hide behind "it's classified, why that happened."

Here they are:

• All versions of the Carter Page FISA applications (DOJ) (FBI) (ODNI).
• All of the Bruce Ohr 302's filled out by the FBI. (FBI) (ODNI) [Without redactions]
• All of Bruce Ohr's emails (FBI) (DOJ) (CIA) (ODNI). All supportive documents and material provided by Bruce Ohr to the FBI. (FBI) [Without redactions]
• All relevant documents pertaining to the supportive material within the FISA application. (FBI) (DOJ-NSD) (DoS) (CIA) (DNI) (NSA) (ODNI);
• All intelligence documents that were presented to the Gang of Eight in 2016 that pertain to the FISA application used against U.S. person Carter Page; including all intelligence documents that may not have been presented to the FISA Court. (CIA) (FBI) (DOJ) (ODNI) (DoS) (NSA) Presumably this would include the recently revealed State Dept Kavalac email; and the FBI transcripts from wiretaps of George Papadopoulos (also listed in Carter Page FISA). [AKA 'Bucket Five']
• All unredacted text messages and email content between Lisa Page and Peter Strzok on all devices. (FBI) (DOJ) (DOJ-NSD) (ODNI)
• The originating CIA "EC" or two-page electronic communication from former CIA Director John Brennan to FBI Director James Comey that started Operation Crossfire Hurricane in July 2016. (CIA) (FBI) (ODNI)
• The August 2nd, 2017, two-page scope memo provided by DAG Rod Rosenstein to special counsel Robert Mueller to expand the fraudulent Trump investigation, and initiate the more purposeful obstruction of justice investigation. Also the October 20th, 2017, third scope memo that expanded the investigation again, and targeted additional people including Michael Flynn's family. The Scope Memos are keys to unlocking the underlying spy/surveillance cover-up. [SEE HERE and SEE HERE]
  The July 31st, 2016, Crossfire Hurricane counterintelligence operation originated from a scheme within the intelligence apparatus. The CIA operation created the originating "Electronic Communication" memo. Declassify that two-page "EC" document that Brennan gave to Comey. [The trail is found within the Weissmann report and the use of Alexander Downer SEE HERE]
  Release and declassify all of the Comey memos that document the investigative steps taken by the FBI as an outcome of the operation coordinated by CIA Director John Brennan in early 2016. (The trail was memorialized by James Comey.)
• Reveal the November 2015 through April 2016 FISA-702 search query abuse by declassifying the April 2017 court opinion written by FISC Presiding Judge Rosemary Collyer. Show the FBI contractors behind the 85% fraudulent search queries. [Crowdstrike? Fusion-GPS? Nellie Ohr? Daniel Richman?] This was a weaponized surveillance and domestic political spying operation. [The trail was laid down in specific detail by Judge Collyer SEE HERE]
  Did anyone question former DOJ-NSD (National Security Division) head John Carlin, and get his testimony about why he hid the abuse from the FISA court in October 2016; why the DOJ-NSD rushed the Carter Page application to beat NSA Director Admiral Mike Rogers to the FISA court; and why did John Carlin quit immediately thereafter?
  The Carter Page FISA application (October 2016) was fraudulent, and likely based on deceptions to the FISA Court. Declassify the entire document, and release the transcripts of those who signed the application(s); and/or depose those who have not yet testified. The creation of the Steele Dossier was the cover-up operation. [SEE HERE] What version of the FISA application will be released (if at all)?
  Release all of the Lisa Page and Peter Strzok text messages without redactions. Let sunlight pour in on the actual conversation(s) that were taking place when Crossfire Hurricane (July '16) and the FISA Application (Oct '16) were taking place. The current redactions were made by the people who weaponized the intelligence system for political surveillance and spy operation. This is likely why Page and Strzok texts were redacted!
  Release all of Bruce Ohr 302's without redactions. And FBI notes from interviews and debriefing sessions, and other relevant documents associated with the interviews of Bruce Ohr and his internal communications. Including exculpatory evidence that Bruce Ohr may have shared with FBI Agent Joseph Pientka. [And did anyone get a deposition from this Pientka fella?] Bruce Ohr is the courier, carrying information from those outside to those on the inside.

Rapier108 said:

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This asshat should hang for treason.

aggiehawg said:

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will25u said:

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So if the whole Russia Gate scam was a fishing expedition, could that be why the Senate is in a hurry to get a disposition on the impeachment?

If the impeachment is over then the Democrats trying to get the GJ/underlying information is moot. Or that is my thought process.

---

It should be moot right now as once the articles of impeachment were passed that was the end of the House sanctioned "inquiry". The House's lawyer, Letter, blowing smoke up the DC Circuit's skirt about additional articles would have more credibility if there were an article already alleging bad conduct on Trump's part with the Mueller investigation. That would have made a stronger case for the release of the grand jury material, in my view.

Why the Lawfare lawyers chose not to go down that path has always puzzled me.

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That's not the case. The House very deliberately never voted/gained a judicial enforcement authority, it's just a committee inquiry/act they passed. The intent is that if the House says they need something attached to the word 'impeachment' it means they get it, full stop. They thus need the Senate trial to be pending (which it will be until the 3 judge DC circuit issues it's opinion).

Their intent is to gain a permanent right to get whatever they demand of the Executive branch eliminating judicial review/executive privilege. Their whole gambit is predicated on a timeline that they need it in their greasy flatulent hands/all out this summer, and the DC circuit is about as swampy as it gets still, en banc or no.

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Pelosi and Lawfare's plans are designed for public consumption; she/they are creating the illusion of something that doesn't exist. The purpose of all this fraudulent impeachment activity is to create support for an actual impeachment process.

Because the current Lawfare/Pelosi roadmap intends to work around judicial enforcement authority, the impeachment process is destined by design to end up running head-first into a constitutional problem; specifically separation of power and executive privilege. That predictable constitutional issue will end up with arguments to The Supreme Court.

The Lawfare impeachment road-map is designed to conflict with the constitution. It is a necessary -and unavoidable- feature of their impeachment plan, not a flaw.

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That is a very well written list. Bookmarked!

Thank you.

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The Lawfare impeachment road-map is designed to conflict with the constitution. It is a necessary -and unavoidable- feature of their impeachment plan, not a flaw.

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Have to quibble with this because of the timing of the McKeever case, early April 2019. Right as the Mueller Report was being reviewed by Barr. The report was written in such a way as to include grand jury material throughout. But after that decision, Barr could not make it public with the material still in there.

The issue is declassified =/ available to public or for public release. At least not immediately. There might be a strategic reason this stuff hasn't been let go to the public yet, and one can only hope it is in the interests of the public and of justice.

I'm just saying that I don't think we should read too much into that out of our own impatience.

aggiehawg said:

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Quote:

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The Lawfare impeachment road-map is designed to conflict with the constitution. It is a necessary -and unavoidable- feature of their impeachment plan, not a flaw.

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Have to quibble with this because of the timing of the McKeever case, early April 2019. Right as the Mueller Report was being reviewed by Barr. The report was written in such a way as to include grand jury material throughout. But after that decision, Barr could not make it public with the material still in there.

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Lawfare strategy was always collaborated with team Mueller-Weismann. McKeever merely said a district court couldn't disclose grand jury material.

But, it could order it to be produced of course to a judicial proceeding (under the ridiculous pretense that Pelosi/Schiff/Nadler wouldn't reveal it to the public but use it as part of their prosecutorial duties/investigation). Sure, Barr can't disclose it himself, and thus neither can a court order him to do so, but the goal then became...drive the info in to the public square via the impeachment vehicle.

Quote:

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Their intent is to gain a permanent right to get whatever they demand of the Executive branch eliminating judicial review/executive privilege. Their whole gambit is predicated on a timeline that they need it in their greasy flatulent hands/all out this summer, and the DC circuit is about as swampy as it gets still, en banc or no.

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I'll catch up with this later, but the first thing i thought of when I saw this comment was, assuming it comes to pass, will it be retroactive? Boy we could have a ball reviewing 2008 to 2016.

fasthorse05 said:

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Quote:

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Their intent is to gain a permanent right to get whatever they demand of the Executive branch eliminating judicial review/executive privilege. Their whole gambit is predicated on a timeline that they need it in their greasy flatulent hands/all out this summer, and the DC circuit is about as swampy as it gets still, en banc or no.

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I'll catch up with this later, but the first thing i thought of when I saw this comment was, assuming it comes to pass, will it be retroactive? Boy we could have a ball reviewing 2008 to 2016.

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For weeks I have been saying the Dems should be careful what they wish for. If various privileges don't apply, they don't apply for the Obama admin either. That means that any info about Biden's corruption becomes fair game under the current Articles.

I still think that's part of the reason Pelosi hasn't sent the Articles over.

https://saraacarter.com/devin-nunes-republicans-have-an-active-investigation-into-ig-michaelatkinson/

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Nunes, R-CA, spoke to this reporter for Monday's podcast. He revealed that transcripts of Atkinson's secret testimony will expose that the Inspector General either lied or he needs to make corrections to his statements to lawmakers. The transcripts has been kept from the public by House Intelligence Committee Chairman Adam Schiff, D-CA, because it is damaging to their "impeachment scam," Nunes said....

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(Atkinson) is under active investigation. I'm not gonna go any farther than that because you know obviously he has a chance to come in and prove his innocence, but my guess is Schiff, Atkinson they don't want that transcript out because it's very damaging, Rep. Nunes.....

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"We really do need to hear from the whistleblower," Nunes told The Sara Carter Show. "That needs to happen and the fact that the Democrats won't release the transcript of us interviewing the Inspector General Atkinson that brought this scam forward. Everyone needs to see that testimony and the reason that it's not being released is because it's very damaging, not only to the whistleblower, but also to Atkinson himself.".....

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The above could be a major reason the Impeachment articles have not been forwarded to the Senate. The Dems may have acted in haste, unaware that Schiff was hiding a major problem in his secret dungeon.

drcrinum said:

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...Schiff was hiding a major problem in his secret dungeon.

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My first thought was along the lines of "better than all the minor problems he's probably hiding in a dungeon somewhere."

JTA1029 said:

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drcrinum said:

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...Schiff was hiding a major problem in his secret dungeon.

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My first thought was along the lines of "better than all the minor problems he's probably hiding in a dungeon somewhere."

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He is scum and probably has minor issues in his past waiting to be exposed.

That IG smells dirty to me

drcrinum said:

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https://saraacarter.com/devin-nunes-republicans-have-an-active-investigation-into-ig-michaelatkinson/

Quote:

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Nunes, R-CA, spoke to this reporter for Monday's podcast. He revealed that transcripts of Atkinson's secret testimony will expose that the Inspector General either lied or he needs to make corrections to his statements to lawmakers. The transcripts has been kept from the public by House Intelligence Committee Chairman Adam Schiff, D-CA, because it is damaging to their "impeachment scam," Nunes said....

Quote:

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(Atkinson) is under active investigation. I'm not gonna go any farther than that because you know obviously he has a chance to come in and prove his innocence, but my guess is Schiff, Atkinson they don't want that transcript out because it's very damaging, Rep. Nunes.....

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"We really do need to hear from the whistleblower," Nunes told The Sara Carter Show. "That needs to happen and the fact that the Democrats won't release the transcript of us interviewing the Inspector General Atkinson that brought this scam forward. Everyone needs to see that testimony and the reason that it's not being released is because it's very damaging, not only to the whistleblower, but also to Atkinson himself.".....

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The above could be a major reason the Impeachment articles have not been forwarded to the Senate. The Dems may have acted in haste, unaware that Schiff was hiding a major problem in his secret dungeon.

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Hope you dont mind, I am taking this to the impeachment thread.

Earlier today I posted an article by Professor Cleveland where she went after Mueller, basing her argument upon Horowitz's Report, including direct quotations:
https://thefederalist.com/2020/01/06/inspector-general-report-shows-special-counsel-replicated-fbi-abuses/

Please read the above first if you haven't. Cleveland's article prompted a blog post by a former FBI agent, & he has picked up several relevant issues in addition to Cleveland's findings. See below:

http://meaninginhistory.blogspot.com/2020/01/cleveland-oig-report-fingers-team.html#more

Quote:

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.....Second, the OIG report discovered something that, if it didn't exactly shock me, definitely caused me to sit up and take notice, to even involuntarily raise my eyebrows:

Quote:

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... after June 2017, "an agent from the Special Counsel's Office became Ohr's final point of contact through November 2017." Thus, Mueller's team made a concerted decision to continue to use Ohr to obtain "intel" from Steele -- a decision the IG condemned.

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Quote:

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In fact, the special counsel's use of Ohr appears even more problematic than the FBI's prior mishandling of their meetings with Ohr: At least prior to Mueller's appearance, the FBI documented the details of their conversations with Ohr in FD-302 forms, but as the IG report noted, while Ohr continued to communicate with Steele through the end of November 2017 and passed on the details of those conversations to the FBI, "the FBI did not memorialize any meetings its agents had with Ohr after the Crossfire Hurricane investigation was transferred to the Special Counsel's Office in May 2017."

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Quote:

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Further, while the special counsel's team continued to meet with Ohr during this time, no one from Mueller's group informed DOJ leadership of Ohr's involvement in the investigation nor his meetings with Steele until "after Congress requested information from the Department regarding Ohr's activities in late November 2017."

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I had previously thought that, once the 302s of Joe Pientka's contacts with Ohr stopped, so did the contacts. Not so!

Remember how Crossfire Hurricane was predicated on the idea that there was a de facto "enterprise"--an informal but cohesive entity--operating within the Trump campaign to collude with Russia? Uh, looks like there was an illegal enterprise of sorts going on within the FBI and DoJ--and Team Mueller! All FBI investigation must be documented. FBI agents are not allowed to operate what we referred to as "hip pocket sources." This is a huge no-no. Pientka has to be in deep, deep, doo-doo. As with Clinesmith, I find it non-credible that Clinesmith and Pientka undertook these patently illegal actions totally on their own. Who knew what, when?.....

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That's just the first bomb. Continue reading the article and you will learn about a second bomb -- it's a little more detailed but it involves Weissmann & cohorts hiding their discussions/plans/scheme from their supervisors, another huge no-no. The author then makes a concluding statement:

Quote:

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A separate enterprise within DoJ? Sure looks like that to me.

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Need I remind you about a Strzok-Page text message referencing a 'secret society'?

I posted below on the Soleimani-Iranian thread as well.

https://amgreatness.com/2020/01/06/reasons-to-be-wary-of-war-rhetoric/

Interesting read. How long are we going to continue to believe the Intelligence Community? The latter has been misleading America for decades, & remember, they were the ones working behind the scenes in SpyGate & were likely responsible for its origin & much of what transpired. So, is the IC purposely misleading Trump on Soleimani & Iran, having planned a debacle that would lead to Trump's defeat in 2020? Something to think about.

drcrinum said:

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Earlier today I posted an article by Professor Cleveland where she went after Mueller, basing her argument upon Horowitz's Report, including direct quotations:
https://thefederalist.com/2020/01/06/inspector-general-report-shows-special-counsel-replicated-fbi-abuses/

Please read the above first if you haven't. Cleveland's article prompted a blog post by a former FBI agent, & he has picked up several relevant issues in addition to Cleveland's findings. See below:

http://meaninginhistory.blogspot.com/2020/01/cleveland-oig-report-fingers-team.html#more

Quote:

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.....Second, the OIG report discovered something that, if it didn't exactly shock me, definitely caused me to sit up and take notice, to even involuntarily raise my eyebrows:

Quote:

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... after June 2017, "an agent from the Special Counsel's Office became Ohr's final point of contact through November 2017." Thus, Mueller's team made a concerted decision to continue to use Ohr to obtain "intel" from Steele -- a decision the IG condemned.

---

Quote:

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In fact, the special counsel's use of Ohr appears even more problematic than the FBI's prior mishandling of their meetings with Ohr: At least prior to Mueller's appearance, the FBI documented the details of their conversations with Ohr in FD-302 forms, but as the IG report noted, while Ohr continued to communicate with Steele through the end of November 2017 and passed on the details of those conversations to the FBI, "the FBI did not memorialize any meetings its agents had with Ohr after the Crossfire Hurricane investigation was transferred to the Special Counsel's Office in May 2017."

---

Quote:

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Further, while the special counsel's team continued to meet with Ohr during this time, no one from Mueller's group informed DOJ leadership of Ohr's involvement in the investigation nor his meetings with Steele until "after Congress requested information from the Department regarding Ohr's activities in late November 2017."

---

I had previously thought that, once the 302s of Joe Pientka's contacts with Ohr stopped, so did the contacts. Not so!

Remember how Crossfire Hurricane was predicated on the idea that there was a de facto "enterprise"--an informal but cohesive entity--operating within the Trump campaign to collude with Russia? Uh, looks like there was an illegal enterprise of sorts going on within the FBI and DoJ--and Team Mueller! All FBI investigation must be documented. FBI agents are not allowed to operate what we referred to as "hip pocket sources." This is a huge no-no. Pientka has to be in deep, deep, doo-doo. As with Clinesmith, I find it non-credible that Clinesmith and Pientka undertook these patently illegal actions totally on their own. Who knew what, when?.....

---

That's just the first bomb. Continue reading the article and you will learn about a second bomb -- it's a little more detailed but it involves Weissmann & cohorts hiding their discussions/plans/scheme from their supervisors, another huge no-no. The author then makes a concluding statement:

Quote:

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A separate enterprise within DoJ? Sure looks like that to me.

---

Need I remind you about a Strzok-Page text message referencing a 'secret society'?

---

RICO......Suave

drcrinum said:

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I posted below on the Soleimani-Iranian thread as well.

https://amgreatness.com/2020/01/06/reasons-to-be-wary-of-war-rhetoric/

Interesting read. How long are we going to continue to believe the Intelligence Community? The latter has been misleading America for decades, & remember, they were the ones working behind the scenes in SpyGate & were likely responsible for its origin & much of what transpired. So, is the IC purposely misleading Trump on Soleimani & Iran, having planned a debacle that would lead to Trump's defeat in 2020? Something to think about.

---

If that was the plan, it was poorly thought out. Going to be hard to paint Trump as a bad guy for taking out the devil incarnate

Interesting video. Mirrored copy of DNC server was sent to Sessions and Whitaker containing evidence of rigged voting by DNC.

What a load of horse crap! Flynn was cooperating right up until the time Van Grack insisted he get on the stand and commit perjury. And FTR, the jury convicted Rafekian. It was the judge who threw the verdict out as a matter of law.

aggiehawg said:

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What a load of horse crap! Flynn was cooperating right up until the time Van Grack insisted he get on the stand and commit perjury. And FTR, the jury convicted Rafekian. It was the judge who threw the verdict out as a matter of law.

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If the government told the court in 2018 that Flynn provided "substantial assistance" and they just over a year later they say that his assistance was "never substantial", is the court not going to ask about why the substantial difference? Is that not lying to the court? Do they have to show how his assistance has changed in the last 13 months from "substantial" to "never substantial"?

pagerman @ work said:

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aggiehawg said:

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What a load of horse crap! Flynn was cooperating right up until the time Van Grack insisted he get on the stand and commit perjury. And FTR, the jury convicted Rafekian. It was the judge who threw the verdict out as a matter of law.

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If the government told the court in 2018 that Flynn provided "substantial assistance" and they just over a year later they say that his assistance was "never substantial", is the court not going to ask about why the substantial difference? Is that not lying to the court? Do they have to show how his assistance has changed in the last 13 months from "substantial" to "never substantial"?

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Sullivan could very well ask that precise question, insofar as the government's position didn't change between Rakekian trial last July until now. What changed now?

aggiehawg said:

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What a load of horse crap! Flynn was cooperating right up until the time Van Grack insisted he get on the stand and commit perjury. And FTR, the jury convicted Rafekian. It was the judge who threw the verdict out as a matter of law.

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All of this has been held over Flynn for 3 years at the cost of millions in legal fees, but I like to point out that Sztrok was allowed to destroy his personal phone, after checking it himself for any work related texts with Page despite the fact that they had communicated directly to talk on their personal devices in texts on their work phones about work.

Of course, the IG/FBI were just fine with that. No big deal.

Quote:

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All of this has been held over Flynn for 3 years at the cost of millions in legal fees, but I like to point out that Sztrok was allowed to destroy his personal phone, after checking it himself for any work related texts with Page despite the fact that they had communicated directly to talk on their personal devices in texts on their work phones about work.

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Every time I read, or hear this again, I just get pissed.

Federal agents get administrative punishment for things the rest of us might do hard time for. It is total hypocrisy on the part of our own government.

will25u said:

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"The most serious charge again Bijan Rafiekian was acting as an agent of a foreign government without notifying the Attorney General, in violation of 18 U.S.C. 951." So, the most serious charge again him was the FARA violation. Something they never prosecute.

While we're on the subject of Flynn and laws we don't really enforce, wouldn't Michael Moore's DM to Iran be a violation of the Logan Act?