Those are suites.

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I'm no gun expert, but the sounds I hear in the video point to a drum mag because there's fairly consistent, long-period firing - a hell of a lot longer than a 30rd mag. I'd also say bump stock because the cycle rate isn't as uniform as full-auto would be.

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same and that was my opinion

curious why the authorities were claiming full auto when the rhythm was off

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cone said:

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that's staggering

how many rounds did he get off

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aggiehawg said:

Was wondering the same. 58-59 mortally wounded and over 500 injured, even if not all of the injuries were GSWs is a lot. I understand it was a crowd but that is accurate shooting. What was the duration of the entire event?

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Bobcat06 said:

Around 15 minutes.

With around 600 casualties (dead + wounded), that's 40 hits per minutes. Assuming he hit some victims twice and also missed some, that's still very accurate.

He had training.

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The total casualties include everything from death to major injuries to scratches. Bullets can go though more than one person. A bullet hitting the concrete could splinter and injure many. Could also be injuries from panic and running away.

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He had training.

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Meh. Even with training, shooting a full auto from that distance and hitting individuals accurately is next to impossible. The only thing he was doing was firing continuously into a large crowd, which of course would lead to a lot of hits. I think it is more accurate to say he had "practice"

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cone said:

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that's staggering

how many rounds did he get off

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aggiehawg said:

Was wondering the same. 58-59 mortally wounded and over 500 injured, even if not all of the injuries were GSWs is a lot. I understand it was a crowd but that is accurate shooting. What was the duration of the entire event?

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Bobcat06 said:

Around 15 minutes.

With around 600 casualties (dead + wounded), that's 40 hits per minutes. Assuming he hit some victims twice and also missed some, that's still very accurate.

He had training.

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There were almost 25,000 people there and they were over 500 or so meters away. And he was using an automatic or modified semi-auto weapon. It wouldn't take that much training to cause a disaster.

i think you'd need some firing discipline to paint the full area and to not tunnel

that's why i'm curious as to where the bullets landed and where the casualties were located relative to the first round of shots

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cone said:

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that's staggering

how many rounds did he get off

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aggiehawg said:

Was wondering the same. 58-59 mortally wounded and over 500 injured, even if not all of the injuries were GSWs is a lot. I understand it was a crowd but that is accurate shooting. What was the duration of the entire event?

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A single 7.62mm bullet can easily penetrate 3 or 4 people. In such a densely packed venue, I imagine that many, if not most, of the casualties are the result of multiple penetrations from single impact rounds, especially given the elevated firing position. I am sure that a number of the casualties are due to bullet fragments that resulted from ricochets. Absolutely the most horrific of worst case scenarios.

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cone said:

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Ctrue

but you typically know if someone is a "gun guy"

i.e. the type of guy who can and would mod an AK

that's just my assumption

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agsalaska said:

I keep seeing this. How do we know it was modified? Are we assuming it was modified or something. Cause that ain't really easy.

There are millions and millions of fully automatic AK 47s in this world.

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Kenneth_2003 said:

I've always been under the impression that the necessary modifications aren't really all that hard if you know what you're doing. I know my way around firearms fairly well (no expert by any stretch), but there are things like this that I'm just not going to Google.

In the end though, all you're doing is making a change to the relationship between a couple of metal parts within the trigger and sear assembly.

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I understand. But it is not really that easy. In fact it is pretty difficult.

But we will know soon enough.

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He had training.

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he had to

if he's really not ex-military, we're missing something

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Ervin Burrell said:

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Yes, he did. Along with probably half of this board.

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SeattleAgJr said:

Prove where I said I "hope and prayed"

you should get a ban.

[I MADE IT EASY ON ME, I GAVE BOTH OF YOU TIME OFF. -STAFF]

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Other than dueling with another poster, what did Seattle do? It was Ervin Burrel tossing out false allegations.

Keep in mind in the early minute or minutes, before the panic and stampede for the exits sets in, you're looking at a music festival where revelers were likely standing nearly shoulder to shoulder. Perhaps not Kyle field student section dense, but certainly close. The closer to the stage you get the tighter everyone gets.

Reports said for the first 20 seconds people didn't react. A lot of folks have said they thought it was fireworks. You don't have to be very accurate when your first minute of fire is nearly a guaranteed hit with every shot.

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He had training.

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Presley OBannons Sword said:

Meh. Even with training, shooting a full auto from that distance and hitting individuals accurately is next to impossible. The only thing he was doing was firing continuously into a large crowd, which of course would lead to a lot of hits. I think it is more accurate to say he had "practice"

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lots of experts here. I am not. What would you estimate his rate of fire to have been? Sounds like five or six rounds per second to me, but what the heck do I know?

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cone said:

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also curious as to the square footage of the ground that came under fire

did he have the discipline to shoot as wide as possible or did he tunnel?

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ballchain said:

You wouldn't need much discipline if you're raining down rounds, 100-per mag, over a 380k+ sqft area.

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For the rural hunting type... that's about 9 acres. Houses are on lots about 1/4 to 1/3 of an acre (8K to 10K sq').

38-40 house neighborhood for you city slickers.

you don't need "training" to hit people standing shoulder to shoulder. I'm not saying that he didn't have help, but it doesn't necessarily mean that he did either.

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cone said:

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Ctrue

but you typically know if someone is a "gun guy"

i.e. the type of guy who can and would mod an AK

that's just my assumption

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agsalaska said:

I keep seeing this. How do we know it was modified? Are we assuming it was modified or something. Cause that ain't really easy.

There are millions and millions of fully automatic AK 47s in this world.

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Kenneth_2003 said:

I've always been under the impression that the necessary modifications aren't really all that hard if you know what you're doing. I know my way around firearms fairly well (no expert by any stretch), but there are things like this that I'm just not going to Google.

In the end though, all you're doing is making a change to the relationship between a couple of metal parts within the trigger and sear assembly.

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agsalaska said:

I understand. But it is not really that easy. In fact it is pretty difficult.

But we will know soon enough.

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He lived in the SW United States and had two planes.....how available are full auto AKs in Mexico?

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Keep in mind in the early minute or minutes, before the panic and stampede for the exits sets in, you're looking at a music festival where revelers were likely standing nearly shoulder to shoulder. Perhaps not Kyle field student section dense, but certainly close. The closer to the stage you get the tighter everyone gets.

Reports said for the first 20 seconds people didn't react. A lot of folks have said they thought it was fireworks. You don't have to be very accurate when your first minute of fire is nearly a guaranteed hit with every shot.

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truth

he was probably most deadly by far in that first grouping

The fact that he took a corner room and set up platforms and cameras. There is training involved.

If there was ever any doubt about what a d-bag Dan Bilzerian was.....

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He had training.

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Presley OBannons Sword said:

Meh. Even with training, shooting a full auto from that distance and hitting individuals accurately is next to impossible. The only thing he was doing was firing continuously into a large crowd, which of course would lead to a lot of hits. I think it is more accurate to say he had "practice"

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AggieHank86 said:

lots of experts here. I am not. What would you estimate his rate of fire to have been? Sounds like five or six rounds per second to me, but what the heck do I know?

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yeah, without going back and watching the video again, that sounds about right

AggiePetro07 said:

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That brother is acting odd.

Obviously, his world just got turned upside down, but still very odd acting.

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I am going to guess he's in complete shock... he should never have accepted an interview - even of someone just walking up to him. He should have been protected from the street-interview by family or police even.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/king-instagram-dan-bilzerian-posts-11272971

Listen to the fire in this video. Does that sound like an M4 or variant? Or more like an AK?

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cone said:

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Ctrue

but you typically know if someone is a "gun guy"

i.e. the type of guy who can and would mod an AK

that's just my assumption

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agsalaska said:

I keep seeing this. How do we know it was modified? Are we assuming it was modified or something. Cause that ain't really easy.

There are millions and millions of fully automatic AK 47s in this world.

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Kenneth_2003 said:

I've always been under the impression that the necessary modifications aren't really all that hard if you know what you're doing. I know my way around firearms fairly well (no expert by any stretch), but there are things like this that I'm just not going to Google.

In the end though, all you're doing is making a change to the relationship between a couple of metal parts within the trigger and sear assembly.

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agsalaska said:

I understand. But it is not really that easy. In fact it is pretty difficult.

But we will know soon enough.

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CanyonAg77 said:

He lived in the SW United States and had two planes.....how available are full auto AKs in Mexico?

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Hmm.....

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He had training.

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Presley OBannons Sword said:

Meh. Even with training, shooting a full auto from that distance and hitting individuals accurately is next to impossible. The only thing he was doing was firing continuously into a large crowd, which of course would lead to a lot of hits. I think it is more accurate to say he had "practice"

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AggieHank86 said:

lots of experts here. I am not. What would you estimate his rate of fire to have been? Sounds like five or six rounds per second to me, but what the heck do I know?

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Presley OBannons Sword said:

yeah, without going back and watching the video again, that sounds about right

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Firing went off for 10 seconds in one video, and assuming that was a 100rd drum, that's 10rds/sec which sounds about right

Prayers for all of those affected. Just found out we had friends at the concert. They are okay. Person next to them was hit. They thought it was fireworks when it started.
The first and second burst seemed like ~50-60 round mags from the length of time.
There should be cameras everywhere in that hotel. Thinking about OJ's most recent crime that was videoed most of the way to the scene of the crime.

EDIT: Took a look at the Audio wave. First burst was exactly 10 seconds long, shots were about one every 10th of a second. So 100 rounds per burst should be correct.

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cone said:

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Ctrue

but you typically know if someone is a "gun guy"

i.e. the type of guy who can and would mod an AK

that's just my assumption

---

agsalaska said:

I keep seeing this. How do we know it was modified? Are we assuming it was modified or something. Cause that ain't really easy.

There are millions and millions of fully automatic AK 47s in this world.

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Kenneth_2003 said:

I've always been under the impression that the necessary modifications aren't really all that hard if you know what you're doing. I know my way around firearms fairly well (no expert by any stretch), but there are things like this that I'm just not going to Google.

In the end though, all you're doing is making a change to the relationship between a couple of metal parts within the trigger and sear assembly.

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agsalaska said:

I understand. But it is not really that easy. In fact it is pretty difficult.

But we will know soon enough.

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Converting an AK really is that easy... It's drilling one hole and fitting parts that are readily available on the internet for ~$50. You can print out paper templates to pinpoint where the sear axis pin goes. A non-skilled gunsmith could easily do it in an afternoon. (Speaking from experience having done it legally)

Got it. Thanks.

scottimus said:

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The fact that he took a corner room and set up platforms and cameras. There is training involved.

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Why does that require training?

scottimus said:

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The fact that he took a corner room and set up platforms and cameras. There is training involved.

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what training does that require? I'm not trying to be a dick, but everyone is so sure he had training, and I see nothing done here that proves he had training. taking a corner room with a lot of windows and setting up a stable platform is common sense for anyone that has ever fired a gun. and the camera thing is common sense as well.

scottimus said:

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The fact that he took a corner room and set up platforms and cameras. There is training involved.

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Planning =/= training
You're just over thinking it.

I've had no formal training, but don't find what he did terribly inconceivable. I don't mean to sound cold, but after every previous mass shooting I'm usually scratching my head wondering why the casualty rates are so LOW.

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scottimus said:

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The fact that he took a corner room and set up platforms and cameras. There is training involved.

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aTmAg said:

Why does that require training?

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bc apparently only the most highly trained special forces know that you need a room overlooking your intended target.

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Quote:

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He had training.

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cone said:

he had to

if he's really not ex-military, we're missing something

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I disagree with this. It would not take military training to kill 60 people and injure 500 in a crowd of 20,000+ with full auto from elevated position. I think it would just take a casual grasp of firearms and a little personal experience. Along with a messed up brain and no relationship with Christ.

here's what i thought it sounded like

but i know nothing