I John 3:10 mentions the children of the devil. Who are these people and what makes them children of the devil?

You seem to be trying to imply that there are literal (genetic) children of the devil.

1 John 3

1How great is the love the Father has lavished on us, that we should be called children of God! And that is what we are! The reason the world does not know us is that it did not know him. 2Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when he appears,[a]we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is. 3Everyone who has this hope in him purifies himself, just as he is pure.

4Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness. 5But you know that he appeared so that he might take away our sins. And in him is no sin. 6No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him.

7Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. He who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous. 8He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work. 9No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God. 10This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God; nor is anyone who does not love his brother.

The devil is also referred to as a father. Can't be a father without children. There are also references to his seed.

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The devil is also referred to as a father. Can't be a father without children.

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First of all, post where the devil is referred to as a father.

Second, George Washington is referred to as father of our nation, yet he had no children. [The earliest known image in which Washington is identified as such is on the cover of the circa 1778 Pennsylvania German almanac (Lancaster: Gedruckt bey Francis Bailey).]

Catholic Priests are referred to as father, but very few have fathered children.

Obviously you can be referred to as father without actually fathering any children.

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There are also references to his seed.

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Post them.

Here is a reference to the devil's seed.


Genesis 3:14-15

14And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:

15And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

Unless, seed is used figuratively, then it looks like you are suggesting that Satan had sex, possibly numerous times, and fathered, both spiritually and biologically, multiple offspring.

Please tell me that is not where you are going with this.

The curse of the serpent was not necessarily the same curse given to Satan.

Lucifer likely was cast down to earth from heaven before Adam and Eve were tempted, however there is no definite timeline ever given.

John 8:42 Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and now am here. I have not come on my own; but he sent me. 43Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say. 44You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies. 45Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me! 46Can any of you prove me guilty of sin? If I am telling the truth, why don't you believe me? 47He who belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God."

Liars?

I do not believe that the devil has fathered children in a physical way. At least I haven't seen any scriptural references. However, Lucifer (Satan) is a spirit being and the fathering would have to be in the spirit. There are references that appear to be figurative but I don't think they all are. He is called the Father of Lies for instance. If God can have sons then it would stand to reason that the devil would try to counterfeit that.

John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Kline,

I think your interpretation is right. However, I don't believe we have the ability to discern who in our day and age are truly children of the devil, because to be a child of the devil is to be utterly lost in your evil ways with no hope of repenting. We certainly cannot say for certain that this or that person has no hope of knowing the Lord.

Here is a reference to the devil's seed.


Genesis 3:14-15
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You are assuming the Devil and the Satan (of Job and later) are the same from Genesis to Revelation. This is an incorrect interpretation of the text. Don't have time to spell it out, but there is a difference between these characters and their functions.

I thought some of you guys had pinned Javier Solana as the anti-Christ. Wouldn't that be classified as a spiritual offspring on Lucifer?

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread183503/pg1

Ozzy and his kin

Hold on, I'm spinning the first Black Sabbath album backward...

You could make a generalization that those who don't love the truth are "Satan's children" but because you don't know who will repent in the end you can't make judgments about specific people.

Mrs. Lovelight,

The devil is the master of the counterfeit. If he convinces a man or woman to sell out to him it would have to be in an indirect way through seduction, i.e., politics, power, family pedigree, avocation. I have never seen or heard anyone that says, "Yes, I worship the devil and I want to spend eternity in hell." Even the quote unquote devil worshipers believe that they worship the true God and we that are Christians worship the false God. The devil has to convince people that black is white and white is black.

With all that being said, I believe there are those that have sold out to the devil for lack of a better way to say it and that they have passed the point of redemption, i.e. they have the devil's seed and cannot receive the incorruptible seed from the true God. I don't believe that we could know who they are for sure unless God decided to reveal it to us. However, discerning of spirits is a manifestion of the spirit in I Corinthians 12. But, I do believe that we can see the fruit (rotten fruit) of their actions. I believe that Hitler, Stalin, Polpot, and Louis Farrakhan are in that category (my opinion only). They have continual anger, preach hate, lie, and are murderers. It has been postulated that Farrakhan is the one that took out Malcolm X. I would think that any "great" movement in this world that directly and aggressively attacks believers and biblical principles in our society would be controlled or manipulated by the devil's seed.

If you go through the bible and make a list of the attributes of the devil himself some of which I listed above then you would be most likely to be able to identify those that could be his children spiritually.


[This message has been edited by Kline7 (edited 4/10/2007 3:33p).]

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If you go through the bible and make a list of the attributes of the devil himself some of which I listed above then you would be most likely to be able to identify those that could be his children spiritually.

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Which is what we as Christians are supposed to spend our time doing...

Professor,

This thread is way above your pay grade. But, please give us your opinion as to why there can't be children of the devil. There is an unforgiveable sin. There must be something that man can do that God cannot forgive based on his foreknowledge and spiritual laws. Could it be that some people become the devil's seed and therefore cannot receive God's seed. You don't see any records in the bible were God is trying to reform Lucifer.

Seamaster,

Don't get your post. Was it intended to be an attack? Even in the spiritual competition it is good to know who the enemy is and what methods he uses. It is a part of "Resist the devil and he shall flee."

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You are assuming the Devil and the Satan (of Job and later) are the same from Genesis to Revelation. This is an incorrect interpretation of the text. Don't have time to spell it out, but there is a difference between these characters and their functions.

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Despite all the ad hominems and mediocre attempts at wit, I would be interested in your take on the difference between the two characters, as you suggest.


[This message has been edited by The Lone Stranger (edited 4/10/2007 5:04p).]

They live in Austin and have big horns.

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They live in Austin and have big horns.

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dang! something from txag73 I can finally agree on!

Ahh, young grasshopper...The beginning of wisdom...

I dont live in Austin....but....

fahraint - except for you and my brother-in-law, of course.

You do know that the two fingered salute you guys like to wave around at football games is the sign of the devil in Mexico, don't you?

Yes, but we're in Texas!

But, please give us your opinion as to why there can't be children of the devil.
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I never said that, learn to read instead of simply react.
The development of the concept of the Devil and the Satan is a progression from the OT to NT. Again, you need to learn to calm down and not be so manic in your responses.

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I never said that, learn to read instead of simply react.
The development of the concept of the Devil and the Satan is a progression from the OT to NT. Again, you need to learn to calm down and not be so manic in your responses.

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Again, I would be interested on your take on this Devil/Satan progression.

If you don't wanna do it here, just shoot me an email.

Perhaps you could start another thread or tack it on this one.


[This message has been edited by The Lone Stranger (edited 4/11/2007 1:54p).]

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If you don't wanna do it here, just shoot me an email.

Perhaps you could start another thread or tack it on this one.

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. . . or perhaps he could ES. Six of one . . .

And where have you been Dr?
It would require reading some commentaries/histories on Job and Genesis and Daniel and Revelation for starters...

Let's just say that Satan is the expert at ES.

Please oh great sage of wisdom Professor Graddo, please give us your wisdom as to the difference in Satanas and Daimon through out the Old Testament and New Testament. We await your wisdom and how it evolved.

Professor,

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You are assuming the Devil and the Satan (of Job and later) are the same from Genesis to Revelation. This is an incorrect interpretation of the text. Don't have time to spell it out, but there is a difference between these characters and their functions.

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This is some of the most confusing chibberish I have seen in a while. Are you saying that God fired the old devil and that we got a new one somewhere in a different book of the bible or in the New Testament? God doesnt' change. The devil didn't change. The devil is pure evil and pure hate and absolute darkness. There are many descriptive terms of God and Jesus Christ and Lucifer. It does not mean that they have changed or evolved over time. It means that they have varied attributes. I am an Aggie, a father, a son, a husband, a grandfather, etc, etc. Yet I am still me.

You are so smart that you spend too much time complicating that which is really simple. Ever learning never coming to an accurate knowledge of the truth!

Just a little bit about the development of this concept leftover from notes:

Among those books of the Hebrew Scriptures written before 300 BCE, the term "satan" (root word "s'tn" appears often. The word is derived from the original Hebrew verb "satan" which means "to oppose." The Septuagint translation of the Hebrew Scriptures into Greek was widely used in the early Christian church. They translated "satan" as "diaboloc" from which we derive our English term "devil" and "diabolic."

The word is used to refer to:

Any person acting as an accuser or enemy. For example: 1 Samuel 29:4: The Philistines were distrustful of David, fearing that he would be a satan. (translated "adversary" or "someone who will turn against us".
2 Samuel 19:22: Shime-i apologizes to King David. The King rejects the apology, saying that they should not be a satan to each other (translated "adversary" or "opponent".
1 Kings 5:4: King Solomon is talking to Hiram, the King of Tyre. He says that now that there is neither satan nor bad luck to stop him, he can build the Temple. (translated as "adversary", "enemy", or "one who opposes".
1 Kings 11:14: God raised up Hadad the Edomite as a satan against Solomon. (translated as "adversary," or "opponent".

A divine messenger sent by God as an adversary: Numbers 22:22 & 32: God appears in a dream, telling Balaam to go with the princes of Moab to meet Balak. But when Balaam sets out the next morning on his donkey, God is angry with him for some reason, and sent an angel/messenger to kill him. The donkey saw the angel and took evasive actions. The angel was invisible to Balaam, who beat the animal. The donkey asked Balaam why he had beat her three times. Balaam, who doesn't seem to realize that a talking donkey is an unusual occurrence, replies. The angel then appears and explains that he has come as a satan to kill him. (translated as "one who opposes, "withstand," "adversary"

a member of God's inner council; a type of chief prosecutor of Heaven: 1 Chronicles 21:1: Satan, "a supernatural evil emissary," acting on God's behalf, has influenced David to hold a census. The census is taken, and God is angry for an unknown reason. Perhaps God does not want humans to be aware of the strength of the army. God then offers David his choice of one of three punishments: a 3 year famine, 3 months of fleeing before his enemies' armies, or a plague throughout Israel. David selects the plague and God killed 70,000 men (and presumably a similar number of women and many tens of thousands of children). In 2 Samuel 24, the identical event is described. However, this time, the text states that God influenced David to hold the census. Even though God had incited David to enumerate the men of Israel and Judah, he was still angry that it was done and punished the Israelites with a plague. The writings in 2 Samuel are believed to be the original account; 1 Chronicles came later. It is believed that when Samuel was finally edited (circa 560 BCE), the editors thought that all supernatural actions (good and bad) came from God. When Chronicles was written over a century later, (circa 400 BCE) the author viewed God as operating indirectly through his helpers.
Job 1 and 2: Satan is described as one of the members of the court of heaven. God mentions that he is impressed at the behavior of Job, a blameless man who has lived an upright life. Satan attributes Job's commendable behavior to his good fortune and says that Job would soon curse God if he had a string of really bad luck. God decides to conduct an experiment with Job; he instructs Satan to destroy all that Job has: kill his animals, murder his employees, and murder his innocent children. But, even after these disasters, Job still does not curse God. So God instructs Satan to up the ante by returning to earth and destroying Job's health. Here, Satan is portrayed as a servant of God whose task it is to dutifully carry out evil deeds at God's instruction.
Zechariah 3:1-7: Satan is again portrayed as a member of God's council. Here he objects to the selection of Joshua as the high priest.


There are no passages within the older parts of the Hebrew Scriptures where Satan is portrayed as an evil devil - the arch enemy of God and of humanity. At most, he is described as a henchman who carries out God's evil instructions. There is no dualism here between two powerful supernatural entities: an all-good God and an all-evil Satan. God is portrayed as performing, directly and indirectly, both kind and evil deeds. When:

plagues are to be sent, or
a great genocidal flood is created to kill off almost all of humanity, except for Noah and his family, or
Onan was killed because he practiced an elementary form of birth control, in violation of a cultural tradition, or
Sodom and Gomorrah was destroyed because its residents were abusive to the needy and to strangers, or
Lot's wife is turned into a pillar of salt because she looked the wrong way,

it is God who does it. In essence, the ancient writers of the early Hebrew Scriptures looked upon Jehovah as performing both good and evil deeds. A good indication of this is found in:

Isaiah 45:6-7:

"...I am the LORD and there is none else. I form the light and create darkness. I make peace and create evil. I the LORD do all these things." (KJV)

or in Job 9:22-23:

"...[God] destroys both the blameless and the wicked. When a scourge brings sudden death, he mocks the despair of the innocent." (i.e. laughs at the suffering of the victim)

or in Lamentations 3:37-38:

"Who has commanded and it came to pass, unless the Lord has ordained it? Is it not from the mouth of the Most High that good and evil come?"


Just jibberish they used to teach in those liberal Southern Baptist seminaries.

Professor,

If you attribute evil to God then why do we need a devil? If the New Testament says that God is all light and in him is no darkness at all, then how could God be a murderer?

You are adding your private interpretation to what you think that God thinks and yet you directly contradict very simple and basic clear verses.

God allows evil, i.e. the devil. He does not carry it out. If God decides to strike someone down it is not for evil purposes.

It does not matter where you came up with your theory if it contradicts common sense and other clear scriptures. There are many other seminaries in this world who don't agree with many things that the Baptist Church teaches. They can't all be right and could possibly be all wrong. God is the arbitor. The fact that you learned it or retrieved it from a seminary is no guarantee that you have the all truth concerning God and the devil.

Keep up the good work!

Why do you guys take something simple as God and make it all complicated?

[This message has been edited by Raj95 (edited 4/11/2007 3:50p).]