We need to be clear that
pray just means
ask. There is nothing bad or good about asking someone to do something. Asking a person to help you with something is fine. You're literally praying to them when you do. Asking a person to pray for you is also fine, and in fact we are told to do that. Those are prayers of intercession, petition, which St Paul specifically says all men should do (enteuxis). When you petition on someone's behalf you are doing a kind of mediation, because that word just means to go between. The etymology may seem tedious but this matters a great deal to clear up this confusion. Asking someone else to pray for you is a form of humility.
Second, you should expand Psalm 50:15. That verse does not stand alone, it says:
Quote:
Hear, O my people, and I will speak; O Israel, I will testify against you. I am God, your God. Not for your sacrifices do I rebuke you; your burnt offerings are continually before me. I will not accept a bull from your house or goats from your folds. For every beast of the forest is mine, the cattle on a thousand hills. I know all the birds of the hills, and all that moves in the field is mine. If I were hungry, I would not tell you, for the world and its fullness are mine. Do I eat the flesh of bulls or drink the blood of goats? Offer to God a sacrifice of thanksgiving, and perform your vows to the Most High, and call upon me in the day of trouble; I will deliver you, and you shall glorify me.
So, I mean first of all, this verse has nothing to do with intercessory prayer. Like zero point zero. Over and above that, the call upon me - quite differently than you present it - is not call upon me ((as opposed to calling upon something else)). It is presented as a conditional statement - do this,
then call upon me and I will deliver you. We shouldn't abuse the scriptures like this.
Second, you don't even think 1 Tim 2:5 means what you're saying, because you agree that people should pray for each other. What is your point then? Nobody is arguing that Christ Jesus is the sole mediator between God and Man, the great High Priest, the Firstborn, and everything else. We're talking about petitioning God on behalf of others.
Obviously this is not an exclusive thing to Christ Jesus. That is completely not supported by the scriptures. Literally 4 verses before this St Paul says we should pray and intercede for others. So again, you shouldn't abuse scripture out of context like this.
Quote:
The only way you can dispute this is to proclaim that the bible is not the sovereign word of God and should not be taken literally, or throw out the catholic argument of "dont you pray for your friends" that was mentioned in this thread a few times already. The bible instructs us to pray for members of the church many times in the new testament and as you mentioned in the book of James. However, it never mentions asking for the intercession of departed biblical figures and doing so is an insult to the divinity of the Father, Son and Spirit.
This is where you get really dangerous. I'm sorry, but no. I can disagree with
you and
your personal interpretation of scripture without disputing the scriptures themselves. To take this stance actually gathers the authority of the scripture to your person. You should not do this!
And literally nothing that I've written here impinges in any way on the confession of the deity of the Godhead.
I love you brother but this is very confused, and your confusion is causing you to say things you should not.
