All religions lead to God - Pope Francis

17,507 Views | 236 Replies | Last: 1 mo ago by ramblin_ag02
Pro Sandy
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"All religions are paths to reach God."

"They are like different languages in order to arrive at God, but God is God for everyone. Since God is God for all, then we are all children of God."

"If you start to fight'My religion is more important than your's; mine is true and your's isn't'then where will that lead us?"

"There is only one God, and each of us has a language to reach God. Some are Sikh, some Muslim, Hindu, Christian. And they are all paths to God."

Pope Francis said these comments in Singapore this week.

Is he trying to say that if you are in a religion, at least you are seeking God? Or is he straight up contradiction "I Am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me?"

I firmly believe that Christianity is true and other religions are not. Whether protestant or Catholic, it is better because it is the gospel of the living Christ. How can the Pope say it is no better than Islam or Hindu?
UTExan
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I guess all religions lead to some type of god.
It strains credulity that all religions lead to the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
“If you’re going to have crime it should at least be organized crime”
-Havelock Vetinari
Zobel
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On the other hand the scriptures say the gods of the nations are demons. Not sure how worshipping demons is a path to the Most High God.
jrico2727
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This is in contradiction to scripture and tradition, Religious Indifferencism is a defined heresy, I pray for the Holy Father to publicly repent. I pray for the cardinals and Bishops to have the courage to live up to their vocation and proclaim the true faith.
PabloSerna
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The Catholic Church has written that only it contains the fullness of truth- meaning no other Christian denomination can make such claim.

How do feel about that? I ask because it will set up my next point that the Pope is referring to.
“Falsehood flies and the truth comes limping after it” -Jonathan Swift, 1710
PabloSerna
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Jrico, put down the sword for a minute and read deeper.
“Falsehood flies and the truth comes limping after it” -Jonathan Swift, 1710
jrico2727
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No sword just tears, however I will not deny the truth or the Faith. Pablo you can listen to the words come out of his mouth directly they're on video. At least be honest and don't try explain this away, if you're not deeply troubled by this I don't know what to tell you.
Pro Sandy
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PabloSerna said:

The Catholic Church has written that only it contains the fullness of truth- meaning no other Christian denomination can make such claim.

How do feel about that? I ask because it will set up my next point that the Pope is referring to.
The Pope's comments seem counter to that belief.

When the Pope says all religions lead to God, how is that not against the gospel of Jesus?

txwxman
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My great grandparents thought Catholics weren't true Christians. I'm not sure of the end goal of a shouting match in which everyone tells everyone else they're going to hell. A completely nonfunctional society.
lobopride
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When this Pope opens his mouth Satan speaks.
747Ag
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Zobel said:

On the other hand the scriptures say the gods of the nations are demons. Not sure how worshipping demons is a path to the Most High God.

100%
Pro Sandy
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747Ag said:

Zobel said:

On the other hand the scriptures say the gods of the nations are demons. Not sure how worshipping demons is a path to the Most High God.

100%
Agreed.

Listened to a podcast the other day that worked its way through the divine council, the gods of the nations, and rebellion

https://bibleproject.com/podcast/theme-god-e3-spiritual-warfare/
747Ag
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jrico2727 said:

This is in contradiction to scripture and tradition, Religious Indifferentism is a defined heresy, I pray for the Holy Father to publicly repent. I pray for the cardinals and Bishops to have the courage to live up to their vocation and proclaim the true faith.

Yes. A call to double down in praying for the Holy Father as well as other high-ranking prelates. Pray for your bishop and your pastor as well.

I want to say my heart sank when I heard this report, but it didn't. Not sure my heart can sink any further, honestly based on the last 13+ years. Just didn't surprise me that this was said, albeit off the cuff. I'm fatigued by this stuff. I was heartened, though, that my priest issued a correction to the errors of indifferentism and universalism in today's sermon.

Of note... today's Gospel (Matthew 22:34-46) spoke of the two greatest commandments. A great reminder, especially the first greatest commandment.
ramblin_ag02
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I can't get behind that statement at all. There are plenty of awful religions out there, including plenty primal religions that practice human sacrifice and cannibalism. Plenty of modern religions or variants don't lead to God either. The Prosperity Gospel doesn't lead to God, Wahhabism doesn't lead to God, and Scientology doesn't lead to God. They all point in directions contrary to God.

OTOH, each and every person has the opportunity and capability of worshipping God even without the full truth of Christianity. Love, charity, duty, mercy, compassion, and self sacrifice are all acceptable forms of worship to God, and anyone anywhere anywhen has the ability to do those. Sometimes those things are easy to do in the framework of other religions, but sometimes they run contrary to the tennets of other religions. For most of the religions that I know anything about, the religion itself is essential neutral. All large modern religions contain paths that endorse the goods listed above, but they also contain support for bigotry, greed, hatred, and cruelty.
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PabloSerna
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"There is only one God, and each of us has a language to reach God. Some are Sikh, some Muslim, Hindu, Christian. And they are all paths to God." - Pope Francis, Interreligious faith meeting with young people 9/13/24.

below is a partial quote from:

DECLARATION ON
THE RELATION OF THE CHURCH TO NON-CHRISTIAN RELIGIONS
NOSTRA AETATE (link)
PROCLAIMED BY HIS HOLINESS
POPE PAUL VI
ON OCTOBER 28, 1965

"1. In our time, when day by day mankind is being drawn closer together, and the ties between different peoples are becoming stronger, the Church examines more closely her relationship to non-Christian religions. In her task of promoting unity and love among men, indeed among nations, she considers above all in this declaration what men have in common and what draws them to fellowship.


One is the community of all peoples, one their origin, for God made the whole human race to live over the face of the earth.(1) One also is their final goal, God. His providence, His manifestations of goodness, His saving design extend to all men,(2) until that time when the elect will be united in the Holy City, the city ablaze with the glory of God, where the nations will walk in His light.(3)

Men expect from the various religions answers to the unsolved riddles of the human condition, which today, even as in former times, deeply stir the hearts of men: What is man? What is the meaning, the aim of our life? What is moral good, what is sin? Whence suffering and what purpose does it serve? Which is the road to true happiness? What are death, judgment and retribution after death? What, finally, is that ultimate inexpressible mystery which encompasses our existence: whence do we come, and where are we going?

2. From ancient times down to the present, there is found among various peoples a certain perception of that hidden power which hovers over the course of things and over the events of human history; at times some indeed have come to the recognition of a Supreme Being, or even of a Father. This perception and recognition penetrates their lives with a profound religious sense.

Religions, however, that are bound up with an advanced culture have struggled to answer the same questions by means of more refined concepts and a more developed language. Thus in Hinduism, men contemplate the divine mystery and express it through an inexhaustible abundance of myths and through searching philosophical inquiry. They seek freedom from the anguish of our human condition either through ascetical practices or profound meditation or a flight to God with love and trust. Again, Buddhism, in its various forms, realizes the radical insufficiency of this changeable world; it teaches a way by which men, in a devout and confident spirit, may be able either to acquire the state of perfect liberation, or attain, by their own efforts or through higher help, supreme illumination. Likewise, other religions found everywhere try to counter the restlessness of the human heart, each in its own manner, by proposing "ways," comprising teachings, rules of life, and sacred rites. The Catholic Church rejects nothing that is true and holy in these religions. She regards with sincere reverence those ways of conduct and of life, those precepts and teachings which, though differing in many aspects from the ones she holds and sets forth, nonetheless often reflect a ray of that Truth which enlightens all men. Indeed, she proclaims, and ever must proclaim Christ "the way, the truth, and the life" (John 14:6), in whom men may find the fullness of religious life, in whom God has reconciled all things to Himself.(4)

The Church, therefore, exhorts her sons, that through dialogue and collaboration with the followers of other religions, carried out with prudence and love and in witness to the Christian faith and life, they recognize, preserve and promote the good things, spiritual and moral, as well as the socio-cultural values found among these men."

+++

There seems to be a rush to judge the words of Pope Francis without any understanding of the RCC documents on interreligious dialogue of which Pope Francis has said before "promotes peace." So, I will break down each part of the Pope's quote in light of these documents, many of which I have actually read:

"There is only one God" - this is true and would limit the rest of his quote to monotheistic religions.

"and each of us has a language to reach God" - I take this to align with the second paragraph from the 1965 document which I highlighted- that all men have as a final goal, that is God. So this part of his statement is also true and follows RCC understanding going back to Vatican II.

"Some are Sikh, some Muslim, Hindu, Christian." - again the Pope is distinguishing between the more traditional monotheist, non-Christian religions. So, citing Wicca as one of these religions is not what who he is referring to in my opinion. That seems pretty obvious given his history and that of the work by the RCC on interreligious dialogue.

"And they are all paths to God." - again a truth. A path to God is not the same as the "fullness of religious life" that the RCC proclaims which I have highlighted above from the 1965 document.

It may shock some, but it is very likely that Jews, Muslims, Hindus, and other non-Christians will walk the streets of heaven!
“Falsehood flies and the truth comes limping after it” -Jonathan Swift, 1710
PabloSerna
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jrico2727 said:

No sword just tears, however I will not deny the truth or the Faith. Pablo you can listen to the words come out of his mouth directly they're on video. At least be honest and don't try explain this away, if you're not deeply troubled by this I don't know what to tell you.
I did listen and I'm not deeply troubled at all because I know precisely what he talking about. Was a very close subject to my heart when I made my journey back the RCC 30+ years ago. Who doesn't ask, which way is the true way before embarking on a life long journey??

“Falsehood flies and the truth comes limping after it” -Jonathan Swift, 1710
AgLiving06
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PabloSerna said:

The Catholic Church has written that only it contains the fullness of truth- meaning no other Christian denomination can make such claim.

How do feel about that? I ask because it will set up my next point that the Pope is referring to.

Just so there's no confusion, just because Rome claims to "contain the fullness of truth" does not make it true or correct. It's simply a claim made by a group about itself that most of the world simply ignores.



10andBOUNCE
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PabloSerna said:

It may shock some, but it is very likely that Jews, Muslims, Hindus, and other non-Christians will walk the streets of heaven!
Is this the mainstream RCC view? Or just your own opinion?
powerbelly
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Quote:

It may shock some, but it is very likely that Jews, Muslims, Hindus, and other non-Christians will walk the streets of heaven!
God can obviously do whatever he wants, but this seems contrary to the teachings of Jesus.
ramblin_ag02
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Quote:

It may shock some, but it is very likely that Jews, Muslims, Hindus, and other non-Christians will walk the streets of heaven!
I believe this as well, but it has nothing to do with them being fantastic examples of some non-Christian faith. I don't think the best Hindu in history gets any sort of divine credit for being the best Hindu. However, some people of those religions have and will lead lives that are so Christ-like that a deathbed conversion would see many of them welcomed as saints by Christian churches. With only a small change in label at the very end, we could easily look at these people as paragons of Christian virtue. IMHO, God doesn't need to label change at the end to recognize one of His people. So if a Hindu's life would have made for a great Christian hagiography if the person's religion was ignored, then I think we can expect to see that person glorified in the afterlife.
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jrico2727
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powerbelly said:


Quote:

It may shock some, but it is very likely that Jews, Muslims, Hindus, and other non-Christians will walk the streets of heaven!
God can obviously do whatever he wants, but this seems contrary to the teachings of Jesus.
The nuance and what is being abused by some is what is know as invincible ignorance. When answering the question on what about the noble savage that never learned of Christ, would a just God, condemn them in hell? What the church teaches is that God will judge and wouldn't just instantly condemn based on that fact alone. Now what about modern societies where people have more knowledge than ever before? Now people want to further nuance culture and personal biases and then blame bad behavior of current and prior Christians. At what point does invincible ignorance turn into intentional ignorance? What we know for sure is the words of Christ state that he is the only way to the Father. He instructs his followers to preach the Gospel and baptize all nations. Doesn't seem so nuanced.
PabloSerna
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10andBOUNCE said:

PabloSerna said:

It may shock some, but it is very likely that Jews, Muslims, Hindus, and other non-Christians will walk the streets of heaven!
Is this the mainstream RCC view? Or just your own opinion?
Well founded RCC positions.

Here is a (LINK) regarding Vatican and Papal statements on Islam. Here is another (LINK) about Vatican II statements on Catholic - Jewish relations. Another (LINK) regarding the Vatican's message about, Christianity and Hinduism bringing about "the light of hope" in people's lives.

This is all based on the interreligious document I cited above. If you take the time to read it, it is very short, it distinguishes between encountering God through various religions and living a full religious life in the life of Jesus Christ, true God and true man.

+++

It was once explained to me this way;

All of mankind seeks God, encountering him high on a mountain. We each stand around this mountain trying to climb our way to the top. Jesus has come down from heaven to blaze a trail to the top. This is the church he established together with the 12 apostles. This is the Catholic Church.


“Falsehood flies and the truth comes limping after it” -Jonathan Swift, 1710
AgLiving06
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Notice that every link is post Vatican 2. There's a reason for that....Rome held to the historical view prior to that, but did a 180 in that council.

This is a great example of how Rome has contradicted itself in Councils.

Council of Florence said something very different:

ETWN - Council of Florence

Quote:

It firmly believes, professes and preaches that all those who are outside the catholic church, not only pagans but also Jews or heretics and schismatics, cannot share in eternal life and will go into the everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, unless they are joined to the catholic church before the end of their lives; that the unity of the ecclesiastical body is of such importance that only for those who abide in it do the church's sacraments contribute to salvation and do fasts, almsgiving and other works of piety and practices of the Christian militia produce eternal rewards; and that nobody can be saved, no matter how much he has given away in alms and even if he has shed his blood in the name of Christ, unless he has persevered in the bosom and the unity of the catholic church.
Catag94
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PabloSerna said:

The Catholic Church has written that only it contains the fullness of truth- meaning no other Christian denomination can make such claim.

How do feel about that? I ask because it will set up my next point that the Pope is referring to.


When did the Catholic Church write this?
I ask because cause Ron wondering if it was before or after the great schism. If before, is it a claim held by both the RCC and the Orthodox?

Regardless, I to answer your question, I feel as though it's a claim that seeds idolatry of a religion. I'd prefer the Church point back to Christ as the Truth and the Life.
Good Bull Jones 17
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AgLiving06 said:

Notice that every link is post Vatican 2. There's a reason for that....Rome held to the historical view prior to that, but did a 180 in that council.

This is a great example of how Rome has contradicted itself in Councils.

Council of Florence said something very different:

ETWN - Council of Florence

Quote:

It firmly believes, professes and preaches that all those who are outside the catholic church, not only pagans but also Jews or heretics and schismatics, cannot share in eternal life and will go into the everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, unless they are joined to the catholic church before the end of their lives; that the unity of the ecclesiastical body is of such importance that only for those who abide in it do the church's sacraments contribute to salvation and do fasts, almsgiving and other works of piety and practices of the Christian militia produce eternal rewards; and that nobody can be saved, no matter how much he has given away in alms and even if he has shed his blood in the name of Christ, unless he has persevered in the bosom and the unity of the catholic church.



https://www.catholic.com/magazine/online-edition/is-there-really-no-salvation-outside-the-catholic-church

A long article, and it does quote some Vatican 2 documents, but it also has quotes from early counsels, such as Trent, that clarify the possibility for salvation for those who are not formally in the church, but through extraordinary means. Varican 2 was much more ecumenical in tone, but it didn't change earlier teachings on no salvation outside the church.

A pope in the 1890s has been quoted in the idea of invincible ignorance. There was a priest who was excommunicated in 1953 for preaching "no salvation outside the church" meant one has to be formally Catholic to be saved.
AgLiving06
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Good Bull Jones 17 said:

AgLiving06 said:

Notice that every link is post Vatican 2. There's a reason for that....Rome held to the historical view prior to that, but did a 180 in that council.

This is a great example of how Rome has contradicted itself in Councils.

Council of Florence said something very different:

ETWN - Council of Florence

Quote:

It firmly believes, professes and preaches that all those who are outside the catholic church, not only pagans but also Jews or heretics and schismatics, cannot share in eternal life and will go into the everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, unless they are joined to the catholic church before the end of their lives; that the unity of the ecclesiastical body is of such importance that only for those who abide in it do the church's sacraments contribute to salvation and do fasts, almsgiving and other works of piety and practices of the Christian militia produce eternal rewards; and that nobody can be saved, no matter how much he has given away in alms and even if he has shed his blood in the name of Christ, unless he has persevered in the bosom and the unity of the catholic church.



https://www.catholic.com/magazine/online-edition/is-there-really-no-salvation-outside-the-catholic-church

A long article, and it does quote some Vatican 2 documents, but it also has quotes from early counsels, such as Trent, that clarify the possibility for salvation for those who are not formally in the church, but through extraordinary means. Varican 2 was much more ecumenical in tone, but it didn't change earlier teachings on no salvation outside the church.

A pope in the 1890s has been quoted in the idea of invincible ignorance. There was a priest who was excommunicated in 1953 for preaching "no salvation outside the church" meant one has to be formally Catholic to be saved.

I can appreciate that groups like Catholic Answers have to smooth over and try to justify why they are having to rewrite history to justify the claims of modern popes, but the hoops they jump through to do this are kind of silly.

When you are going to claim popes and councils (especially ecumenical councils) are infallible, and then later you have to revise/retcon them, the claims fall hollow.


AGC
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Much as I like Catholics, there comes a necessary point of introspection if the elected bishop of Rome must be repeatedly repudiated for such statements, or funneled through documents outside of tradition, scripture, and councisl for clarity. Is it fair to criticize Protestants for being their own pope if you handle your own leader in such a manner? The Pharisees built hedges. Is there a word for the type of massive shrubbery around Catholic belief?
PabloSerna
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If you think about it, Pope Francis was on point (as he usually is) with RCC position regarding interreligious dialogue. All the "explaining" was for stubborn (my word) Catholics that are stuck on older, often taken out of context, writings and have not bothered to engage in the mission since Vatican II.

Catholic Answers, in my opinion, was not jumping through hoops, but answering a common misconception that ONLY baptized Roman Catholics will walk the streets of heaven. Just not the case and has not been for some time.


“Falsehood flies and the truth comes limping after it” -Jonathan Swift, 1710
PabloSerna
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"Notice that every link is post Vatican 2. There's a reason for that....Rome held to the historical view prior to that, but did a 180 in that council."

+++

This is a false understanding of the underpinnings of RCC doctrine that my man (yes I wrote that) St. Thomas Aquinas (1224-1274) has given to the Church, namely the Natural Law, which he related through the writings of Aristotle, Plato, Cicero, etc. Aquinas actually refers to Aristotle as, "The Philosopher" in his writings.

These Greek philosophers were not Christians.

Like I said before, there is a difference between coming to the mountain of God and reaching the summit. Aquinas would probably say, the Greeks, by way of God's grace, got pretty far.

“Falsehood flies and the truth comes limping after it” -Jonathan Swift, 1710
NoahAg
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Holy cow, Pablo, that is some mental gymnastics!
Why can't more catholics admit (I know some do) that this pope is not a Christian?
Pope is spouting more new age BS. Assign those words to anyone else and the only logical conclusion would be they came from a non-Christian. No, the Bible is clear: The only way to God is through his Son Jesus Christ.
AgLiving06
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PabloSerna said:

"Notice that every link is post Vatican 2. There's a reason for that....Rome held to the historical view prior to that, but did a 180 in that council."

+++

This is a false understanding of the underpinnings of RCC doctrine that my man (yes I wrote that) St. Thomas Aquinas (1224-1274) has given to the Church, namely the Natural Law, which he related through the writings of Aristotle, Plato, Cicero, etc. Aquinas actually refers to Aristotle as, "The Philosopher" in his writings.

These Greek philosophers were not Christians.

Like I said before, there is a difference between coming to the mountain of God and reaching the summit. Aquinas would probably say, the Greeks, by way of God's grace, got pretty far.



You claim a man said something. I quoted an ecumenical council.

Keep spinning.
747Ag
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"God gives some Popes to the Church, God tolerates some Popes in the Church, and God inflicts some Popes on the Church."

-- St. Vincent of Lerins
PabloSerna
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There is no spinning. You simply do not understand some things and are reaching for a conclusion. I'm trying (unsuccessfully) to define for you the difference between a "path to God" and the fullness of the teachings of Jesus Christ. That Aquinas cites heavily the Greek philosophers is well known.

I don't know if this helps- but the "fullness of truth" claim, which I agree makes sense, is regarding the path that Jesus blazed to the top of the mountain. This is where the RCC applies the scripture where Jesus is the gate. This does not apply to other "religions" - just Christians.



“Falsehood flies and the truth comes limping after it” -Jonathan Swift, 1710
AGC
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747Ag said:

"God gives some Popes to the Church, God tolerates some Popes in the Church, and God inflicts some Popes on the Church."

-- St. Vincent of Lerins


So similar to Israel asking for a king and what follows?
Zobel
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AG
Is idolatry a path to God?
 
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