https://www.cbsnews.com/texas/news/robert-morris-resigns-texas-pastor-gateway-church/

vmiaptetr said:

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https://www.cbsnews.com/texas/news/robert-morris-resigns-texas-pastor-gateway-church/

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In my opinion, he is forgiven but should step down.

My question is, why is sexual sin so prevalent among clergy?

People confide in their pastors all the time. They are vulnerable, and it creates a deeper relationship with people. Gotta resist that temptation though.

That's my guess anyway.

A thread on this literally one post down.
https://texags.com/forums/15/topics/3467745

BassCowboy33 said:

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A thread on this literally one post down.
https://texags.com/forums/15/topics/3467745

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I looked before I posted. I wouldn't have opened that thread thinking it was about Robert Morris. But feel free to post on that one if you want to.

BassCowboy33 said:

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vmiaptetr said:

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People confide in their pastors all the time. They are vulnerable, and it creates a deeper relationship with people. Gotta resist that temptation though.

That's my guess anyway.

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Yeah, but not all pastors are diddling a family friend's 12-year-old daughter.

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I'm not justifying his actions. I'm trying to answer the question about why this type of action is prevalent in clergy. Aside from a therapist, what other environment might you be having deep conversations with someone?

dermdoc said:

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vmiaptetr said:

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https://www.cbsnews.com/texas/news/robert-morris-resigns-texas-pastor-gateway-church/

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In my opinion, he is forgiven but should step down.

My question is, why is sexual sin so prevalent among clergy?

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Is sexual sin more prevalent among clergy? I don't know the answer to that. But, I do think that sexual sins are seen as being more 'jarring' than other sins by society. Maybe we are conditioned to see a sexual sin as worse than something like stealing or misusing church funds (as an example).

And . . . especially in the case of minors, it is a sin that coincides more directly to legal consequences. There are other sins like pride and gluttony and sloth that I don't think have as clear a line to legal prohibition. So, maybe the clergy has a prevalence of those sins as well. (Or maybe they don't, I don't know). But, I think the point is that if there were a clergy person who was guilty of the sin of acting on their temptation for sloth - it doesn't make the front page of any newspaper since there is no legal prohibition of it. It would be a 'church matter' rather than a matter for broader society.

Great point!

sealyaggies said:

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dermdoc said:

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vmiaptetr said:

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https://www.cbsnews.com/texas/news/robert-morris-resigns-texas-pastor-gateway-church/

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In my opinion, he is forgiven but should step down.

My question is, why is sexual sin so prevalent among clergy?

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When Satan can tempt a Pastor with sin, he impacts the world exponentially. I am sure all Pastors are under the wrath of evil temptation more than any of us can imagine.

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Agree.

From the article, ""I learned to lie and manipulate because I also had rejection, I didn't want to be rejected," Morris said in 2014. "So I looked for the girls that would be the most susceptible. And I learned to spot that.""

So he is a self-proclaimed predator?

I guess you could say he was a self-proclaimed predator. Sounds to me like just another 21 year old guy trying to get laid.

Now, when it specifically involves a 12 year old girl, yeah, that's predator.

dermdoc said:

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vmiaptetr said:

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https://www.cbsnews.com/texas/news/robert-morris-resigns-texas-pastor-gateway-church/

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In my opinion, he is forgiven but should step down.

My question is, why is sexual sin so prevalent among clergy?

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I think that's one group it seems prevalent in ....but I think there is a common thread with other positions of power. CEO's, politicians, celebs, etc. Power can be much more intoxicating than money or other worldly things. I also think that its shocking when these things are made public, but statistically, its less likely in faith based organizations than other places of power that I mentioned.

dermdoc said:

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vmiaptetr said:

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https://www.cbsnews.com/texas/news/robert-morris-resigns-texas-pastor-gateway-church/

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In my opinion, he is forgiven but should step down.

My question is, why is sexual sin so prevalent among clergy?

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Because sexual sin is so prevalent amongst everyone. Especially amongst the ultra rich who have more ability to act upon it.

Protestants being stunned that the kind of alpha personalities that go out and build 100 million dollar plus fortunes on the back of religion also might have sexual issues sort of sums up all the issues with American Protestantism for me.

I mean, the Righteous Gemstones couldn't plot this any better.

Jabin said:

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Protestants being stunned that the kind of alpha personalities that go out and build 100 million dollar plus fortunes on the back of religion also might have sexual issues sort of sums up all the issues with American Protestantism for me.

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Uhhh, glass houses and stones?

Sex issues by clergy is a ubiquitous problem in every sect, denomination, and brand of orthodoxy.

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For sure…it exists every where. The degree in which it exists and the conditions each group creates matters.

Remove the incredibly low barrier of entry to become a preacher/pastor/elder/minister/wife preacheress and the money element from Protestantism and remove the marriage restriction from Roman Catholicism and you remove a great deal of what drives a certain type of person inclined to commit these types of acts.

Orthodox Priests have had issues before but no where near to the level as the others. It's going to happen.

To become a Deacon you must have completed a bachelors degree and seminary to be considered.
(I know this because I went through this program but did not choose to actually become a deacon)

To become a priest a Masters Degree and Seminary is required.

The Clergy is placed by the Bishop in each location.

Bishops are quite often monks that are compensated to the lowest level possible.

Orthodox priests are poorly paid.

Takes a very dedicated type of person to be an orthodox priest and that's good.

In Protestant churches I've been involved in they are sort of family affairs a good bit of the time. No qualifications at all to start the church. Hiring friends and again people with no actual qualifications.

I've gotten the cringe or two from some of the people working and volunteering at Protestant churches I had attended.

My gut feeling/logic tells me that if some one has a financial interest in their investment and income (church) that they are also far more likely to hide any thing that occurs and is less likely to report and try to handle internally.

Gay priest in the RCC may try to help conceal crimes for other gay priest so as to not draw unwanted attention to the issue.

These conditions don't exist in the Orthodox Church.

Like I said, it can occur anywhere but conditions do matter.

It may be the you are blind, simply perhaps uninformed, or just defensive about the EO.

Crimes of the Eastern Orthodox Church 4: Sex Abuse | In-Sight Publishing

The Sexual Abuse Crisis in Eastern Orthodoxy - OnePeterFive

Crimes of the Eastern Orthodox Church 1: Adam Metropoulos - The Good Men Project

Priest Found Guilty of Violent Sex Acts With Children at Orthodox Christian Youth Camps - Newsweek

That's just a few articles I found via a quick google search.

The factors that you recite as typical of EO priests are also factors that tend to winnow out many, except for child predators.

The low number of cases in the US may simply be the low number of EO churches and members. Additionally, there may be cultural factors within many EO churches that prevent or discourage whistleblowing.

Jabin said:

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It may be the you are blind, simply perhaps uninformed, or just defensive about the EO.

Crimes of the Eastern Orthodox Church 4: Sex Abuse | In-Sight Publishing

The Sexual Abuse Crisis in Eastern Orthodoxy - OnePeterFive

Crimes of the Eastern Orthodox Church 1: Adam Metropoulos - The Good Men Project

Priest Found Guilty of Violent Sex Acts With Children at Orthodox Christian Youth Camps - Newsweek

That's just a few articles I found via a quick google search.

The factors that you recite as typical of EO priests are also factors that tend to winnow out many, except for child predators.

The low number of cases in the US may simply be the low number of EO churches and members. Additionally, there may be cultural factors within many EO churches that prevent or discourage whistleblowing.

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Ok. Point still stands.

I told you it exist.

IT DOES NOT EXIST TO THE LEVEL OF THE OTHER CONDITIONS.

I believe we have the finest military fighting force on the planet. Guess what? It is also full of murderers, rapist, adulterer, and thieves.

When you get a group of a few hundred thousand people together, they are going to be unsavory elements even in the best of conditions.

Best to not encourage them though.

I understand that you have a dog in the fight and you want to pretend that what is happening in your particular brand of Christianity is the utmost and the most perfect IN EVERY SINGLE CONCEIVABLE WAY but there's a good chance it's just not.

Orthodox had its flaws with nationalism, disorganized and fractured leadership, an old-school approach to money which could be considered good or bad etc….

I just don't believe we have a flaw in this particular area.

I think you do. I think Protestantism invites the wrong type of people to start a church because there is a financial incentive and little to no oversight possible and no qualifications or barrier of entry to become a church entrepreneur/pastor.

The RCC has a lavender priest issue due to its policies.

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IT DOES NOT EXIST TO THE LEVEL OF THE OTHER CONDITIONS.

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Do you have data to support that statement or is simply an article of belief?

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I understand that you have a dog in the fight and you want to pretend that what is happening in your particular brand of Christianity is the utmost and the most perfect IN EVERY SINGLE CONCEIVABLE WAY but there's a good chance it's just not.

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Nothing like a good ad hominem. What did I ever post that leads you to that conclusion? What do my supposed beliefs or desires have to do with any problems in the EO? Finally, are you not guilty of that which you accuse me?

By the way, you're absolutely wrong. I know that there is much that's terribly wrong in Protestantism. However, I object to those, like you, think that their brand is perfect in every way. Unfortunately, none of these man-made brands will be perfect until Christ returns.

Jabin said:

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IT DOES NOT EXIST TO THE LEVEL OF THE OTHER CONDITIONS.

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Do you have data to support that statement or is simply an article of belief?

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The most general and basic of knowledge and logic applies.

That said I have seen data on these issues within The Church but it wasn't in an on line forum.

You can do your own research if you want though.

The reason I listed are good enough for me.

CrackerJackAg said:

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Jabin said:

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IT DOES NOT EXIST TO THE LEVEL OF THE OTHER CONDITIONS.

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Do you have data to support that statement or is simply an article of belief?

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The most general and basic of knowledge and logic applies.

That said I have seen data on these issues within The Church but it wasn't in an on line forum.

You can do your own research if you want though.

The reason I listed are good enough for me.

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OK, right. Very persuasive.

Jabin said:

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CrackerJackAg said:

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Jabin said:

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Quote:

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IT DOES NOT EXIST TO THE LEVEL OF THE OTHER CONDITIONS.

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Do you have data to support that statement or is simply an article of belief?

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The most general and basic of knowledge and logic applies.

That said I have seen data on these issues within The Church but it wasn't in an on line forum.

You can do your own research if you want though.

The reason I listed are good enough for me.

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OK, right. Very persuasive.

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You do you. If you like the conditions of your set up that is your personal choice.

Let me correct, or perhaps qualify, something you said:

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In Protestant churches I've been involved in they are sort of family affairs a good bit of the time. No qualifications at all to start the church. Hiring friends and again people with no actual qualifications.

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Although that's true in some and perhaps many Protestant churches, it's definitely not true of all.

And a question for you - does every employee of an EO church have to have qualifications? Are all employees priests? For example, would an EO church have a college ministry, men's ministry, or women's ministry? If so, who would lead that? If the church were big enough, could that person be a paid employee? If so, what qualifications would that person have to have?

What about other paid positions such as secretary, maintenance, yard work, etc. Do they have to have qualifications? If so, what?