When Americans are asked to check a box indicating their religious affiliation, 28% now check 'none.'
A new study from Pew Research finds that the religiously unaffiliated a group comprised of atheists, agnostic and those who say their religion is "nothing in particular" is now the largest cohort in the U.S. They're more prevalent among American adults than Catholics (23%) or evangelical Protestants (24%).
Back in 2007, Nones made up just 16% of Americans, but Pew's new survey of more than 3,300 U.S. adults shows that number has now risen dramatically.
Researchers refer to this group as the "Nones."
Pretty evident for a while that this was coming and there's not any indication I see that the increase in the percentage of Americans who aren't religiously affiliated will stop.
If we wanted to play semantics, I do question why the survey would lump atheists, agnostics, and the "nothing in particular" group together but split up all of the Christian denominations. Christians in general are still the largest group.
I've got family members that fit into this category. If there was a checkbox for, 'I believe in Jesus but Sunday is for kids sports' they'd fill it in. I have been invited to a bunch of sunday morning birthday parties lately. The hosts get a bit weirded out when we say that we'd like to show up after church if thats not a problem for the party.
Lots of pagans and spiritualists out there though and growing. I think the nones may be fleeting as a world of individual truth doesn't lead to Dawkins or hitchens, but neo-paganism.
If we wanted to play semantics, I do question why the survey would lump atheists, agnostics, and the "nothing in particular" group together but split up all of the Christian denominations. Christians in general are still the largest group.
It makes sense in context since they break down the survey into Christian, Non-Christian, and None of the Above. But this is a clickbait headline since it then keeps the grouping for none of the above while breaking down the other two groups.
The actual survey is pretty interesting and shows the complexities in people's individual beliefs across the religious spectrum.
I've got family members that fit into this category. If there was a checkbox for, 'I believe in Jesus but Sunday is for kids sports' they'd fill it in. I have been invited to a bunch of sunday morning birthday parties lately. The hosts get a bit weirded out when we say that we'd like to show up after church if thats not a problem for the party.
Decline is real.
My mom's husband a couple years ago casually asked if my older girls could miss mass so they could take a weekend trip with them. Didn't even offer to take them to mass wherever it was out of town he was wanting to go. I said "absolutely not", and he gave me an incredulous look.
When we were still in the public schools, my wife would sometimes take the girls out of school on holy days of obligation to take them to mass. We did this even though there are times available to us after school, to send the message to the kids that as seriously as they know I take school, their obligations to our creator are infinitely more important. But the front desk lady on one occasion was very confused because, she said, she's Catholic. When my wife told her it was a holy day of obligation she said: "oh, you're REALLY Catholic." Lol.
Not surprising at all. People are seeing religion as less useful and relevant than times past. Gen Z is historically irreligious compared to past generations. Many people who consider themselves Christian are really only such in a cultural context.
At this point the question isn't whether a decline is happening, but how fast it's accelerating.
The political and social climates prevalent in the USA over the past decade have undoubtedly influenced these trends.
I also think we are seeing cultural acceptance of answering "none".
I think this is a big part in the uptick. Yes, I think more people are shedding religion, but also you have more people who have done so and don't feel weird about admitting it. In the past I think you'd have a lot of people who instinctively check a particular religion, despite not having really thought much about that religion until they were asked a question about it.
If we wanted to play semantics, I do question why the survey would lump atheists, agnostics, and the "nothing in particular" group together but split up all of the Christian denominations. Christians in general are still the largest group.
In practice, what do you believe? Practically, atheists, agnostics, and "nothing" believe there is no God to worship and obey.
At this point the question isn't whether a decline is happening, but how fast it's accelerating.
And. . . 'how do we react to the change?' I think this is a question that evokes a lot of different responses and even emotions.
Agree. As a Christian, I honestly do not know what more can be done. The Gospel has never been more widely spread or known. Nobody can force someone to believe.
I will continue to love, pray, witness, serve, and persevere. I believe God is totally sovereign and can change this at any time. And there is a purpose for it.
There will always be a remnant. I stand on God's promises.
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I would be interested in dividing urban and rural responders in the survey.
I bet 90% of the nones live in large blue cities.
Something like 83% of the US population lives in urban areas so I would bet this mirrors that trend.
Yes, and in rural areas and smaller towns, church/religion takes a much more active role in daily life. In some places, church is the only real option for community. In urban areas, it's one of many options.
I've been wondering about this. Where I live now, in Virginia, I have seen church parking lots a lot less full now than when I first came in 2017. I see no new church construction either. I see a lot more church goers in the poorer black communities around where I live as well.
But when I come back to visit family in Texas, I see brand new churches all over the place. Pretty full parking lots at the old, and new places as well. Wondering if it's just population expansion in the area, or if certain parts of town are still holding on to their faith more.
I would be interested in dividing urban and rural responders in the survey.
I bet 90% of the nones live in large blue cities.
Something like 83% of the US population lives in urban areas so I would bet this mirrors that trend.
Yes, and in rural areas and smaller towns, church/religion takes a much more active role in daily life. In some places, church is the only real option for community. In urban areas, it's one of many options.
And if that is the only option for community do you think they are all believers? Or are there people just there for community? I don't think it is as simple as yall are making it.
At the same time, Pew attempted to drill down into what "nones" believe, their feelings towards organized religion and their context within American life and politics.
For example, most "nones," the study found, believe in a "higher power" aside from God of the Bible, but few attend any kind of religious service. About half said spirituality is "very important in their lives."
In Pew's latest data, 17% of "nones" identified as atheist, 20% said agnostic and 63% said "nothing in particular."
"Nones" are also not hostile towards faith: 58% said religion helps society by giving people meaning and purpose.
At this point the question isn't whether a decline is happening, but how fast it's accelerating.
And. . . 'how do we react to the change?' I think this is a question that evokes a lot of different responses and even emotions.
Agree. As a Christian, I honestly do not know what more can be done. The Gospel has never been more widely spread or known. Nobody can force someone to believe.
I will continue to love, pray, witness, serve, and persevere. I believe God is totally sovereign and can change this at any time. And there is a purpose for it.
There will always be a remnant. I stand on God's promises.
Of course you know what can be done. It's being done by those who believe. Have children and pass on the faith. The call is not just for those who are already alive. That's why Christians and secularists fight over education - there are birth rate disparities and one of these philosophies is largely a dead end.
At this point the question isn't whether a decline is happening, but how fast it's accelerating.
And. . . 'how do we react to the change?' I think this is a question that evokes a lot of different responses and even emotions.
Agree. As a Christian, I honestly do not know what more can be done. The Gospel has never been more widely spread or known. Nobody can force someone to believe.
I will continue to love, pray, witness, serve, and persevere. I believe God is totally sovereign and can change this at any time. And there is a purpose for it.
There will always be a remnant. I stand on God's promises.
Of course you know what can be done. It's being done by those who believe. Have children and pass on the faith. The call is not just for those who are already alive. That's why Christians and secularists fight over education - there are birth rate disparities and one of these philosophies is largely a dead end.
Did you miss witness? I have raised my kids in the church and the same with my grand kids. This is not about folks like you and me. I am talking about the unchurched.
And trust me, I believe.
One of the reasons I am still working is so my grand kids can go to private Christian schools.
Just like my kids did.
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At this point the question isn't whether a decline is happening, but how fast it's accelerating.
And. . . 'how do we react to the change?' I think this is a question that evokes a lot of different responses and even emotions.
Agree. As a Christian, I honestly do not know what more can be done. The Gospel has never been more widely spread or known. Nobody can force someone to believe.
I will continue to love, pray, witness, serve, and persevere. I believe God is totally sovereign and can change this at any time. And there is a purpose for it.
There will always be a remnant. I stand on God's promises.
Of course you know what can be done. It's being done by those who believe. Have children and pass on the faith. The call is not just for those who are already alive. That's why Christians and secularists fight over education - there are birth rate disparities and one of these philosophies is largely a dead end.
And do you realize how arrogant and judgemental your post reads?
To a fellow believer?
This does not help in my opinion.
And I bet my kids and grand kids can sing as many memorized as many Christian songs and recite as many Scriptures as your kids.
My goodness.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
At this point the question isn't whether a decline is happening, but how fast it's accelerating.
And. . . 'how do we react to the change?' I think this is a question that evokes a lot of different responses and even emotions.
Agree. As a Christian, I honestly do not know what more can be done. The Gospel has never been more widely spread or known. Nobody can force someone to believe.
I will continue to love, pray, witness, serve, and persevere. I believe God is totally sovereign and can change this at any time. And there is a purpose for it.
There will always be a remnant. I stand on God's promises.
Of course you know what can be done. It's being done by those who believe. Have children and pass on the faith. The call is not just for those who are already alive. That's why Christians and secularists fight over education - there are birth rate disparities and one of these philosophies is largely a dead end.
And do you realize how arrogant and judgemental your post reads?
To a fellow believer?
This does not help in my opinion.
Dude check the emoji and chill out. We all know you raised wonderful children, it's made just about every thread. I'm saying we're doing what we're supposed to be doing already and it's evident in birth rates.
At this point the question isn't whether a decline is happening, but how fast it's accelerating.
And. . . 'how do we react to the change?' I think this is a question that evokes a lot of different responses and even emotions.
Agree. As a Christian, I honestly do not know what more can be done. The Gospel has never been more widely spread or known. Nobody can force someone to believe.
I will continue to love, pray, witness, serve, and persevere. I believe God is totally sovereign and can change this at any time. And there is a purpose for it.
There will always be a remnant. I stand on God's promises.
Of course you know what can be done. It's being done by those who believe. Have children and pass on the faith. The call is not just for those who are already alive. That's why Christians and secularists fight over education - there are birth rate disparities and one of these philosophies is largely a dead end.
And do you realize how arrogant and judgemental your post reads?
To a fellow believer?
This does not help in my opinion.
Dude check the emoji and chill out. We all know you raised wonderful children, it's made just about every thread. I'm saying we're doing what we're supposed to be doing already and it's evident in birth rates.
Sorry. I should not assume every post is directed at me but as you know I am very proud and defensive of my family.
Have a great night!
And to be honest, I loved your last post, first time you seemed like a real dude and not an Anglican legalist.
Love it.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
At this point the question isn't whether a decline is happening, but how fast it's accelerating.
And. . . 'how do we react to the change?' I think this is a question that evokes a lot of different responses and even emotions.
Agree. As a Christian, I honestly do not know what more can be done. The Gospel has never been more widely spread or known. Nobody can force someone to believe.
I will continue to love, pray, witness, serve, and persevere. I believe God is totally sovereign and can change this at any time. And there is a purpose for it.
There will always be a remnant. I stand on God's promises.
Of course you know what can be done. It's being done by those who believe. Have children and pass on the faith. The call is not just for those who are already alive. That's why Christians and secularists fight over education - there are birth rate disparities and one of these philosophies is largely a dead end.
And do you realize how arrogant and judgemental your post reads?
To a fellow believer?
This does not help in my opinion.
Dude check the emoji and chill out. We all know you raised wonderful children, it's made just about every thread. I'm saying we're doing what we're supposed to be doing already and it's evident in birth rates.
Sorry. I should not assume every post is directed at me but as you know I am very proud and defensive of my family.
Have a great night!
And to be honest, I loved your last post, first time you seemed like a real dude and not an Anglican legalist.
Love it.
All good here. You are very proud of your family and I hope mine are as devout and God fearing when they grow older. I'm very pro-private school and want to follow your path with providing my kids' first houses, grandkids' school, etc. assuming I can.
I'm not an Anglican legalist: I find myself leaning more towards mercy and hoping I don't wind up being permissive in later years (though it may not come across here).
On a more serious note I see a lot of churches measure the success of their own ministry differently than they should. An example would be, citing a book that says kids who stay in the church are connected to at least five adults (outside of their parents) but talking about how many kids come to youth group as proof of concept instead. Your exit interviews and retention five years out are better indicators, but no one looks at those.
Most Christians put their kids on the same treadmill as secular people: daycare til school age, public school which aims them at college, college aiming them at a job, and the job at a career. Somewhere along the line they'll think about kids and community, but church is the last thing they make decisions based on. They'll find one wherever they wind up hopefully, but it'll be some big city where the jobs are because they're specialized cogs saddled with debt and need to pay it off in corporations that like specialized cogs. This debt also ******s family formation so it corrupts on many levels; a woman who wants to be a mother full time can't afford to.
At this point the question isn't whether a decline is happening, but how fast it's accelerating.
And. . . 'how do we react to the change?' I think this is a question that evokes a lot of different responses and even emotions.
Agree. As a Christian, I honestly do not know what more can be done. The Gospel has never been more widely spread or known. Nobody can force someone to believe.
I will continue to love, pray, witness, serve, and persevere. I believe God is totally sovereign and can change this at any time. And there is a purpose for it.
There will always be a remnant. I stand on God's promises.
Of course you know what can be done. It's being done by those who believe. Have children and pass on the faith. The call is not just for those who are already alive. That's why Christians and secularists fight over education - there are birth rate disparities and one of these philosophies is largely a dead end.
And do you realize how arrogant and judgemental your post reads?
To a fellow believer?
This does not help in my opinion.
Dude check the emoji and chill out. We all know you raised wonderful children, it's made just about every thread. I'm saying we're doing what we're supposed to be doing already and it's evident in birth rates.
Sorry. I should not assume every post is directed at me but as you know I am very proud and defensive of my family.
Have a great night!
And to be honest, I loved your last post, first time you seemed like a real dude and not an Anglican legalist.
Love it.
All good here. You are very proud of your family and I hope mine are as devout and God fearing when they grow older. I'm very pro-private school and want to follow your path with providing my kids' first houses, grandkids' school, etc. assuming I can.
I'm not an Anglican legalist: I find myself leaning more towards mercy and hoping I don't wind up being permissive in later years (though it may not come across here).
On a more serious note I see a lot of churches measure the success of their own ministry differently than they should. An example would be, citing a book that says kids who stay in the church are connected to at least five adults (outside of their parents) but talking about how many kids come to youth group as proof of concept instead. Your exit interviews and retention five years out are better indicators, but no one looks at those.
Most Christians put their kids on the same treadmill as secular people: daycare til school age, public school which aims them at college, college aiming them at a job, and the job at a career. Somewhere along the line they'll think about kids and community, but church is the last thing they make decisions based on. They'll find one wherever they wind up hopefully, but it'll be some big city where the jobs are because they're specialized cogs saddled with debt and need to pay it off in corporations that like specialized cogs. This debt also ******s family formation so it corrupts on many levels; a woman who wants to be a mother full time can't afford to.
Agree totally. I have found if you put God first it all works out.
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In practice, what do you believe? Practically, atheists, agnostics, and "nothing" believe there is no God to worship and obey.
A lot of the "nones" still have supernatural beliefs of one sort or another. Even in that respect there's a lot of variety. There seems to be an uptick in non-specific spirituality that doesn't easily fit into any one label.
My prediction is that the percentage of Americans identifying as Christian continues to drop, most quickly among the more "liberal" branches. And as it does it leaves behind an American Christianity much more explicitly Republican than it is today.
In practice, what do you believe? Practically, atheists, agnostics, and "nothing" believe there is no God to worship and obey.
A lot of the "nones" still have supernatural beliefs of one sort or another. Even in that respect there's a lot of variety. There seems to be an uptick in non-specific spirituality that doesn't easily fit into any one label.
My prediction is that the percentage of Americans identifying as Christian continues to drop, most quickly among the more "liberal" branches. And as it does it leaves behind an American Christianity much more explicitly Republican than it is today.
Why do you think that? It seems more like shedding a facade on the left than changing the nature of the right. The Republican Party is facing the same pressure. Trump has hosted log cabin republicans and wants to bring them into the coalition. It's probably more accurate to say Christianity is shedding cultural members and those who are left will be nominally conservative but not feel at home there.
At the same time, Pew attempted to drill down into what "nones" believe, their feelings towards organized religion and their context within American life and politics.
For example, most "nones," the study found, believe in a "higher power" aside from God of the Bible, but few attend any kind of religious service. About half said spirituality is "very important in their lives."
In Pew's latest data, 17% of "nones" identified as atheist, 20% said agnostic and 63% said "nothing in particular."
"Nones" are also not hostile towards faith: 58% said religion helps society by giving people meaning and purpose.
I watched about 90% of that video and found it really interesting. Its a little bit of a time investment, but I recommend it for anyone on the fence about whether to make that investment. If it helps, you can probably skip the first 20 minutes.
I found his take on the differences between atheists and 'nothing in particular's to be interesting. I share some of the concerns about the 'disengagement' and cynicism we see in people on all 'sides'. I think we all see a rise in a sort of general cynicism, disengagement, and overall distrust of 'institutions' - and from all sides, as he points out.
If his statistics are correct, 30-40 years ago, political party was a very poor indicator or religious affiliation and he makes the statement that in a lot of churches you were just as likely to be seated in church next to a democrat as you would a republican. Things since then have obviously changed very quickly in a manner that has resulted in people becoming more silo'ed in who they associate with. And in a way that I don't think is healthy. He also talks about churches losing economic diversity and becoming more uniform in the economic position of its members. He says his perfect church is one with both people on government subsidies and people who are millionaires. He uses the analogy to describe American culture of two balls rolling down a hill in opposite directions picking up speed.
One of the points that struck me, which I would love to hear other opinions on, is what he talks about as a sort of disappearance of 'left of center Protestantism'. Ryan talks about a shift from the 50s where there was an attitude that it wasn't important to believe the same thing, as long as you believed toward today where its more important that you 'believe the right thing'. I think that my views are probably well established, but despite that, I don't welcome 'the end of religion'. The loss of community that comes with the rise of the nones is a concern - in particularly for the 'nothing in particular's. As a non-churchgoer, I am interested in whether or not the churchgoers on this board feel that they've witnessed polarization within their church communities or other church communities. Or maybe 'stratification' would be an appropriate term for it?
On one hand, I can absolutely understand the desire to go to church and worship with people that believe as you do and share the same values. On the other hand, in practice, does it might mean that communities becomes filled with only people with the same views and the diversity of communities disappears. Do we still have democrats and republicans sitting next to each other in church? Or people with different opinions on political issues or social issues? And isn't there something we've lost when we go to homogenous communities? The homogenous community issue obviously applies to lots of groups, but his comments were specifically about churches.
Anyway, I don't mean to ramble. I take exception to some of the things he said and I wished a couple times I could jump into the conversation to point out something - but I think this video is exactly in line with what I was thinking when I asked about how we react to the 'rise of the nones'. I worry that the rise of the nones is fueling an acceleration of those balls down opposite sides of the hill rather than causing us to stop and take stock of what is happening. Both sides seem to be blaming the other side for this splitting rather than taking any ownership of it themselves.
And I hope this doesn't sound strange or condescending, but I didn't expect to spend an hour listening to a preacher talk about atheists and 'nones' and not feel blamed, judged, or condescended to. If I didn't think it was all nonsense , this is the type of preacher that would appeal to me, I think.
I didn't watch the video, but thanks for your break down.
My general takes on this subject are: -mainline protestant denominations didn't stop protesting in the 20th century, they've continued to splinter. We have reached full marketplace of God in america. -protestant denominations have less become about the mainline denominational title and more about the statement of beliefs as the splintering has continued. -people are presented with more options, they've selected more specifically. -Conservatives generally change churches when politics they don't agree with get involved. Liberals tend to stay at churches generally because its generally liberal politics coming into a church that is seen as the issue. -All of this has created a general malaise about church from outsiders. -The 'community centers' in america have historically been churches. Hyper selection of church has drawn a hyper selection of laity to each church. Nones don't really have community centers now. Bars and social groups for the childless. Youth sports and extra curriculars for those with kids. The social unmooring will continue until things get so unmoored and isolating that people see the value of church and head back. -No one really knows their neighbors now, nor interacts with society in a way that isn't isolating.
Specifically about your question on church polarization, its both simple and complex. Covid really exposed a lot of churches for not practicing what they are supposed to preach. So a lot of people looked up and started looking around. Politics from the pulpit is another big one. On a more deeper level, churches tend to have a biblically conservative or biblically liberal interpretations. Its highly correlated that if you start flexing the bible on sexual political topics, you tend to think and vote in liberal ways as well. And that your followers generation will flex the bible on other topics to fit what they want to hear.
It is of no great surprise to me that as this number goes up, the moral degradation of our society correlates. You can include a large contingent of the "church" who has betrayed the teachings of sacred Scripture for cultural appropriation. We must repent.
It is of no great surprise to me that as this number goes up, the moral degradation of our society correlates. You can include a large contingent of the "church" who has betrayed the teachings of sacred Scripture for cultural appropriation. We must repent.
This is brought up repeatedly, but it bears bringing up again. The past was not more moral.
It is of no great surprise to me that as this number goes up, the moral degradation of our society correlates. You can include a large contingent of the "church" who has betrayed the teachings of sacred Scripture for cultural appropriation. We must repent.
This is brought up repeatedly, but it bears bringing up again. The past was not more moral.
The Golden Age Fallacy is a cognitive error that occurs when we believe that a specific era in the past was inherently better than the present or any other time. It is characterized by selective memory, idealization, and a lack of critical analysis. People who succumb to this fallacy tend to overlook the complexities, challenges, and injustices of the past, instead focusing on its perceived virtues.
I'm as nostalgic about old times as the next guy, but the idea that the world is a more immoral place today than it was years ago just is not true (with very few exceptions).
It is of no great surprise to me that as this number goes up, the moral degradation of our society correlates. You can include a large contingent of the "church" who has betrayed the teachings of sacred Scripture for cultural appropriation. We must repent.
This is brought up repeatedly, but it bears bringing up again. The past was not more moral.
The Golden Age Fallacy is a cognitive error that occurs when we believe that a specific era in the past was inherently better than the present or any other time. It is characterized by selective memory, idealization, and a lack of critical analysis. People who succumb to this fallacy tend to overlook the complexities, challenges, and injustices of the past, instead focusing on its perceived virtues.
I'm as nostalgic about old times as the next guy, but the idea that the world is a more immoral place today than it was years ago just is not true (with very few exceptions).
I agree. Human nature never changes.
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It is of no great surprise to me that as this number goes up, the moral degradation of our society correlates. You can include a large contingent of the "church" who has betrayed the teachings of sacred Scripture for cultural appropriation. We must repent.
This is brought up repeatedly, but it bears bringing up again. The past was not more moral.
I'm the last person in the world you'll ever hear arguing that. I'm not talking about humanity over the course of world history. I'm talking about a specific place and a specific time period.
, this is the type of preacher that would appeal to me, I think.