No where in Ephesians 1 is man's own freewill mentioned.
You would definitely have to read that into the text to get that interpretation l.
{Again, the problem you have is that to make the narrow argument, you are saying it's only the Ephesians at that moment who were chosen. Or you have to take a broader stance that everybody who hears the letter is chosen, which always expands it to the point where you would essentially be arguing that everybody who simply heard this letter was chosen.}
No, brother. I'm stating that everyone who is born as sons of God are his saints, which to whom the letter was addressed. They are the saints who believe because they were chosen in love before the foundations of the world as Paul qualified his address to the saints immediately in both the following verse and in the following context.
The text is for both Jews and Gentile saints. And is broader than your oversimplification.
In what sense are both Jew and Gentile predestined?
Further Clarified again in verse 11.
{11) In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will,}
All things…Christ didn't just provide a way. He is the way, the truth, and the life.
"…according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will" for those who would not be granted faith? All things. Yes. "…who works all things according to the counsel of his will."
This letter first to Ephesus in Turkey is by no means merely narrowed to address the Jew and Gentile divide. It is much broader than that. Not even mentioned in chapter one's sentence structure. For it is completely false that you would even mention as to suggest that my premise is that only those who read Ephesians 1 are predestined and chosen before the foundations of the world.
St. Paul is most definitely going beyond the Gentile and Jew divide here:
{8) which he lavished upon us, in all wisdom and insight 9 making known to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ 10 as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth.}
Making what mystery known to us of his will?
To unite all things "in him."Paul is specifically talking to all saints who have been predestined in him before the foundations of the world, in love.
And we see "according to his purpose" which Paul qualifies with "which he set forth in Christ." Who is in Christ? Those who would believe because they have been chosen before the foundations of the world in love.
In what way does he "unite all things in him?"
The following verses describe it vividly.
{11 In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will, 12 so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of his glory. 13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,}
"In him" is correctly ordered first in verse 13.
"When you heard the word of truth" Have to be in him before the foundations of the world namely by being predestined first.
For you have to be in him in order to hear properly and believe in him. And then notice the comma correctly placed in verse 13 to qualify what "in him" connects towards.
That is to say that "In him" you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit as a guarantee that you were chosen in him before the foundations of the world who works all things according to the counsel of his will. Why?
"…so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of his glory."
That is to say that hope in Paul's usage of the word is not a wish as commonly used. Hope is an anchor to the set boundaries or mark of distinction, also called predestination.
"The first to hope"
That is, the Jewish Christians were the first to hope.
But Paul qualifies this statement, which the reader should pay attention here to that this predestined plan of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will; qualifies by stating:
"so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of his glory. 13 In him you also,"
And the fullness of our inheritance amongthe predestined is an inheritance which will be completely received one day when we have full possession of it in our glorified bodies.
Again, how does this all fit meticulously together in one sentence in the Greek?
"(5) he predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will,"
How have we been predestined by being adopted as sons? Qualified by …according to the purpose of his will."
From Agliving:
{Further, we of course know that through Jesus Christ, the gentiles, who were once "excluded" are now included in his chosen people}
Old news and completely disregards the very definition of being predestined. He goes over some of that in Ephesians 2. But not before St. Paul mentions that these Gentiles (you) walked according to flesh and the world were dead in their sins and how it is God alone who made them alive or saved. Dead men can't muster belief. Faith is a gift and we see that in Ephesians 2:8-9.
That and the Gospel being spread to the Gentiles was already a known fact in Ephesus. For the Apostle Paul had spent 3 years there in his third missionary journey mentioned in the book of Acts around 53AD. The Apostle Paul states that he was imprisoned in chapter 3. This dates the letter to be around 60-62AD. That's almost ten years with Gentile Timothy in charge.
{So what we are left with is saying that the chosen people are those who hear the Word of God (everyone) and do not resist (less than everyone).}
No, brother. Not everyone is "in him" before the foundations of the world according to the one who works all things according to the counsel of his will. Now do you see?
Those who are in him because they were chosen in him before they were naturally born are now adopted sons of God. Otherwise, you will have to be an universalist like Dermdoc's current belief.
{But to make the claim that Paul is saying God is actively excluding people in the beginning of this letter doesn't hold}
He excludes them by only addressing the letter to the saints. Otherwise, all are predestined before the foundations of the world in him who works all things according to the counsel of his will.
You would definitely have to read that into the text to get that interpretation l.
{Again, the problem you have is that to make the narrow argument, you are saying it's only the Ephesians at that moment who were chosen. Or you have to take a broader stance that everybody who hears the letter is chosen, which always expands it to the point where you would essentially be arguing that everybody who simply heard this letter was chosen.}
No, brother. I'm stating that everyone who is born as sons of God are his saints, which to whom the letter was addressed. They are the saints who believe because they were chosen in love before the foundations of the world as Paul qualified his address to the saints immediately in both the following verse and in the following context.
The text is for both Jews and Gentile saints. And is broader than your oversimplification.
In what sense are both Jew and Gentile predestined?
Further Clarified again in verse 11.
{11) In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will,}
All things…Christ didn't just provide a way. He is the way, the truth, and the life.
"…according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will" for those who would not be granted faith? All things. Yes. "…who works all things according to the counsel of his will."
This letter first to Ephesus in Turkey is by no means merely narrowed to address the Jew and Gentile divide. It is much broader than that. Not even mentioned in chapter one's sentence structure. For it is completely false that you would even mention as to suggest that my premise is that only those who read Ephesians 1 are predestined and chosen before the foundations of the world.
St. Paul is most definitely going beyond the Gentile and Jew divide here:
{8) which he lavished upon us, in all wisdom and insight 9 making known to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ 10 as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth.}
Making what mystery known to us of his will?
To unite all things "in him."Paul is specifically talking to all saints who have been predestined in him before the foundations of the world, in love.
And we see "according to his purpose" which Paul qualifies with "which he set forth in Christ." Who is in Christ? Those who would believe because they have been chosen before the foundations of the world in love.
In what way does he "unite all things in him?"
The following verses describe it vividly.
{11 In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will, 12 so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of his glory. 13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,}
"In him" is correctly ordered first in verse 13.
"When you heard the word of truth" Have to be in him before the foundations of the world namely by being predestined first.
For you have to be in him in order to hear properly and believe in him. And then notice the comma correctly placed in verse 13 to qualify what "in him" connects towards.
That is to say that "In him" you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit as a guarantee that you were chosen in him before the foundations of the world who works all things according to the counsel of his will. Why?
"…so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of his glory."
That is to say that hope in Paul's usage of the word is not a wish as commonly used. Hope is an anchor to the set boundaries or mark of distinction, also called predestination.
"The first to hope"
That is, the Jewish Christians were the first to hope.
But Paul qualifies this statement, which the reader should pay attention here to that this predestined plan of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will; qualifies by stating:
"so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of his glory. 13 In him you also,"
And the fullness of our inheritance amongthe predestined is an inheritance which will be completely received one day when we have full possession of it in our glorified bodies.
Again, how does this all fit meticulously together in one sentence in the Greek?
"(5) he predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will,"
How have we been predestined by being adopted as sons? Qualified by …according to the purpose of his will."
From Agliving:
{Further, we of course know that through Jesus Christ, the gentiles, who were once "excluded" are now included in his chosen people}
Old news and completely disregards the very definition of being predestined. He goes over some of that in Ephesians 2. But not before St. Paul mentions that these Gentiles (you) walked according to flesh and the world were dead in their sins and how it is God alone who made them alive or saved. Dead men can't muster belief. Faith is a gift and we see that in Ephesians 2:8-9.
That and the Gospel being spread to the Gentiles was already a known fact in Ephesus. For the Apostle Paul had spent 3 years there in his third missionary journey mentioned in the book of Acts around 53AD. The Apostle Paul states that he was imprisoned in chapter 3. This dates the letter to be around 60-62AD. That's almost ten years with Gentile Timothy in charge.
{So what we are left with is saying that the chosen people are those who hear the Word of God (everyone) and do not resist (less than everyone).}
No, brother. Not everyone is "in him" before the foundations of the world according to the one who works all things according to the counsel of his will. Now do you see?
Those who are in him because they were chosen in him before they were naturally born are now adopted sons of God. Otherwise, you will have to be an universalist like Dermdoc's current belief.
{But to make the claim that Paul is saying God is actively excluding people in the beginning of this letter doesn't hold}
He excludes them by only addressing the letter to the saints. Otherwise, all are predestined before the foundations of the world in him who works all things according to the counsel of his will.
