ramblin_ag02 said:
AgLiving06 said:
ramblin_ag02 said:
Infection_Ag11 said:
ramblin_ag02 said:
Dude, just stop. The Nazis were happy to use the Evian conference to say, "Well, no one else in the entire world wants our Jews. So clearly there is something extra bad about them, whatever happens next to them is no big deal." Then they proceeded to Holocaust.
You've made it as far as "No one else in the world wants the Palestinians. So clearly there is something extra bad about them…"
When your point is literally the beginning of a point made by the Nazis to justify the Holocaust, then you might want re-examine the fundamentals of your viewpoint.
As in, people's human worth and dignity is not in any way related to the rest of the world wanting or not wanting to embrace them as refugees. There is no gotcha here that justifies poor treatment of 10 million vulnerable people not counting Hamas.
European Jews didn't have an entire society centered around indoctrinating the idea of exterminating native Europeans and Western society as a whole into their children from birth.
Palestinian cartoons they broadcast on television tell kids they should aspire to killing Jews and wiping them out. Their schools teach children that dying while trying to exterminate the west is the height of martyrdom. They are open and honest about this, they do not try to hide it. It is a society built entirely around a hatred of Jews, Christians and western society as a whole. It is a society that many other Arab nations, no fans of the Jews or the west mind you, look at with disgust and condescension.
THAT is why we cannot afford to take them, and why the rest of the Arab world won't take them. It's not that every Palestinian is a danger, it's that they have constructed a society where any one of them could be.
It takes a unique set of circumstances for a society to go that way. Continual poverty, suffering and despair lower the opportunity cost for suicidal violence. If all you have to look forward to is a miserable life, then why not go out in a literal blaze of glory against the people oppressing you? The solution is making their lives better. Give them something to lose, some stake in their own lives and their own society. They don't have that now.
This is an extremely western way of thinking and a large part of the issue imo.
First, lets be clear, it's not Israel that is "oppressing" the people of Gaza. I'll again point out that Egypt is acting no differently, and maybe worse than Israel and I don't see Hamas lobbing rockets at them. So this is not about "going out in a blaze of glory against your oppressor" but specifically about targeting Jews.
Second, the true oppressor is Hamas. The group that takes Gaza infrastructure and makes missiles from it. That takes the money given to Gaza and buys missiles. The group that bombs their own people to keep them from escaping.
So no, this is not about some poverty group simply looking to go out in a blaze of glory.
Hamas is 100% clear that they are not afraid of death. They see it as victory to see Allah in this fashion. The PLO pays families money for dying for the cause, especially when they kill jews.
The question that needs to be asked is what does a better life look like? Is it "from the river to the sea?" That means no Israel. No jews. That is what Hamas wants and what it teachings to the people of Gaza.
We need to put the CRT nonsense down and start looking at what Hamas is actually saying and how Palestinians and its supporters around the world are actually acting. Not just relying on the western view of "throw aid at it and that will probably work."
Again, suggest an alternative. If you don't think that letting the Palestinians have better lives will improve their overall outlook and make them see the world differently, then how do you propose to undo the cultural indoctrination going on?
BTW, Hamas as the true oppressor is just ridiculous. Hamas has started in 1987 and was mostly impotent until the mid 2000's. Gaza has been under Israeli military occupation since 1967. The whole Zionist influx into the Holy Land really started with gusto after WW1. Israel controls the checkpoints, the security fences, and completely controls all movement inside Gaza as well as in and out of Gaza. Hamas is the latest, worst group in Gaza, but they are still late to the party.
Hamas is absolutely the true oppressor.
Lets start with your own premise: "The solution is to make their life better."
Hamas has been the political party in charge since 2007. That's 16 years with the opportunity to improve life in Gaza for the citizens.
During that 16 years, has Hamas "made life better in Gaza?"
Is removing water infrastructure and building missiles from it good or bad for the citizens of Gaza?
Is taking the money from aid, taxes, etc and using it to build 300+ miles of underground tunnels for terror good or bad for Gaza?
Is hiding military installations in civilian housing, schools, hospitals good or bad for the citizens of Gaza?
Is lobbing missiles at Israel (but not Egypt for some reason) good or bad for the citizens of Gaza?
Is Hamas paying families of suicide bombers good or bad for the citizens of Gaza?
Etc, etc, etc.
I'm left thinking about your question and wondering, in the past 16 years, what has Hamas done for Gaza to "make their life better?" Or did we lose 16 years of making things better and instead likely saw 16 years of radicalizing a group under the control of terrorists?
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But in terms of alternatives. It's not going to be easy. As I said, they've been radicalized for 16 years. Someone else pointed out that everything they see, and are taught to hate the jews. The indoctrination of this group has been thorough and horrible and it's going to take a long time to unravel. But it has to start with removing the true oppressor, Hamas, from the equation if we are even going to have a chance of starting.
