Zobel said:

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It's ok to admit you didn't read the article and fudged the numbers. You're allowed to be wrong. I clearly showed exactly where and when the money was provided, per the article. That you spread it across years it was never intended to reflect is incorrect and you know it.

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I literally added up all the numbers in your article, which begins "The international community has sent billions of dollars in aid to the Gaza Strip in recent years to provide relief".

$4.5 bn from UN 2014-2020
$1.3 bn since 2012 from Qatar
$1.7 Bn in 2021 from Palestinian Authority
$500m in 2021 from Egypt
$80m from European countries
$95.5m from US

I rounded up to $8.2bn. If there's more money, point it out. I don't know what you want here. Sorry for reading your own source and accepting it at face value. This is a stupid argument.

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All these countries took in seemingly welfare and destitute citizens, yet in the case of Gaza...oddly, nobody is stepping up. What is different about the people of Gaza than elsewhere? Why do muslims, other than terrorist states like Iran, not want these people.

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I answered the question twice, you won't.

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Why am I advocating? Not genocide. I find it funny how quick you are to judge the worst in someone who disagrees with you.

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Because you responded to a post where I was responding to someone who has repeatedly called for forced relocation and softly supported genocide against them. If you don't want to be lumped in with him, don't jump up to his defense.

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What I'm advocating is that we speak truth about the situation and not whitewash it so we can feel good about it. Pretending that just giving them more aid or infrastructure is the way to solve this crisis is a fools dream. Real action is necessary and much of Gaza itself may not survive it. The people have been given the choice to leave and we can only hope that (1) hamas allows it and (2) the people heed that warning, or they may get their wish to meet God.

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Who feels good about this situation? You're the one basically saying all of this is laid at the feet of the people who live in Gaza and its their fault because no one wants them for reasons you won't say.

Who said the solution is to give more aid or infrastructure?

What does real action mean?

The people can't leave. They literally can't go anywhere.

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It's not a stupid argument because you're attempting to smooth the money out over that time frame instead of acknowledging that nearly half of that money was given from 2020-2021.

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I answered the question twice, you won't.

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You deflect. It's what you do. I pointed out that many countries have taking the poor and destitute, so your answer falls flat. Countries specifically do not want the poor and destitute from Gaza. Why? What do they know and most every knows that you won't admit?

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Because you responded to a post where I was responding to someone who has repeatedly called for forced relocation and softly supported genocide against them. If you don't want to be lumped in with him, don't jump up to his defense.

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And I've not participated in anything related to the OP. My response to you was to correct misstatements in your post. I have never affirmed the OP's post or called for anything of that nature. You decided that since I was challenging your position, that I must agree with the OP, without evidence.

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The people can't leave. They literally can't go anywhere.

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For all that is good...why? Why will no muslim countries take them? Poor/destitute isn't an answer. We have sufficient evidence on this thread alone that this is not an issue.

You're better than this. I've seen you think deeply about other topics, yet you try to hide behind an answer that doesn't pass any level of testing.

Pro Sandy said:

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AgLiving06 said:

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Pro Sandy said:

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AgLiving06 said:

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Why am I advocating? Not genocide. I find it funny how quick you are to judge the worst in someone who disagrees with you.

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This thread has primarily focused on sirdippingdots support for genocide, going old testament, and forced relocation. That's why you get the response you do.

We can speak freely of the subject of Israel and Palestine, I think we have. But understand the context has been in why genocide is or is not justified.

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And I've never mentioned anything remotely of that nature in a single one of my posts.

But Zobel wants to make the accusation, that because I disagree with what he's said, I must support the premise of the OP. I must have some hidden agenda for disagreeing with him or you on this.

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Dude, we explained to you why we both thought you were advocating for sirdippingdots position, because that has been what this thread and others as been about.

If you want to talk about something other than why genocide is or isn't justified, probably should start a new thread to avoid confusion with the OPs position.

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So the only positions allowed in this thread, per you, are to either want to exterminate the Palestinians or be pro-Palestinian?

Didn't realize those were the only allowable positions.

AgLiving06 said:

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Pro Sandy said:

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AgLiving06 said:

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Pro Sandy said:

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AgLiving06 said:

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Why am I advocating? Not genocide. I find it funny how quick you are to judge the worst in someone who disagrees with you.

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This thread has primarily focused on sirdippingdots support for genocide, going old testament, and forced relocation. That's why you get the response you do.

We can speak freely of the subject of Israel and Palestine, I think we have. But understand the context has been in why genocide is or is not justified.

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And I've never mentioned anything remotely of that nature in a single one of my posts.

But Zobel wants to make the accusation, that because I disagree with what he's said, I must support the premise of the OP. I must have some hidden agenda for disagreeing with him or you on this.

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Dude, we explained to you why we both thought you were advocating for sirdippingdots position, because that has been what this thread and others as been about.

If you want to talk about something other than why genocide is or isn't justified, probably should start a new thread to avoid confusion with the OPs position.

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So the only positions allowed in this thread, per you, are to either want to exterminate the Palestinians or be pro-Palestinian?

Didn't realize those were the only allowable positions.

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No and those arent even the positions argued and you know that.

I'm done with this thread. I will not post anymore as this discussion with you isn't going anywhere.

Amen.

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For all that is good...why? Why will no muslim countries take them? Poor/destitute isn't an answer. We have sufficient evidence on this thread alone that this is not an issue.

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Getting some serious Evian Conference vibes from you repeatedly asking this. It's really not a good look.

Pro Sandy said:

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AgLiving06 said:

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Pro Sandy said:

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AgLiving06 said:

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Pro Sandy said:

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AgLiving06 said:

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Why am I advocating? Not genocide. I find it funny how quick you are to judge the worst in someone who disagrees with you.

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This thread has primarily focused on sirdippingdots support for genocide, going old testament, and forced relocation. That's why you get the response you do.

We can speak freely of the subject of Israel and Palestine, I think we have. But understand the context has been in why genocide is or is not justified.

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And I've never mentioned anything remotely of that nature in a single one of my posts.

But Zobel wants to make the accusation, that because I disagree with what he's said, I must support the premise of the OP. I must have some hidden agenda for disagreeing with him or you on this.

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Dude, we explained to you why we both thought you were advocating for sirdippingdots position, because that has been what this thread and others as been about.

If you want to talk about something other than why genocide is or isn't justified, probably should start a new thread to avoid confusion with the OPs position.

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So the only positions allowed in this thread, per you, are to either want to exterminate the Palestinians or be pro-Palestinian?

Didn't realize those were the only allowable positions.

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No and those arent even the positions argued and you know that.

I'm done with this thread. I will not post anymore as this discussion with you isn't going anywhere.

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You mean your Internet argument didn't convince the other person? I'm shocked!

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For all that is good...why? Why will no muslim countries take them? Poor/destitute isn't an answer. We have sufficient evidence on this thread alone that this is not an issue.

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Is this rhetorical? Or do you not know very much about the internal politics of places like their immediate neighbors of Egypt and Jordan, or the rich Gulf states? I don't intend that to be rude, after all, why would many Americans need to know about the inner workings of places like Lebanon or Jordan?

Aside from the challenges of moving and integrating millions of refugees, all of whom have lived in a totally isolated failed state for their entire lives with over 100 years of near constant war from outside empires, none of them want to look like they are aiding the Israelis in their century long project of trying to displace the local population to colonize it with Jewish people.

The immediately surrounding countries already have millions of Palestinian refugees along with hundreds of thousands to millions of Syrians (also Iraqis, Yemenis, Libyans, and Sudanese) and yet people who make this type of argument don't ever seem to acknowledge that.

For what it's worth, King Abdullah of Jordan, in a press conference today in Germany after a meeting with Chancellor Scholz, warned against refugees in either Egypt or Jordan, most likely as Blinken, Israel, and the EU are placing heavy pressure on them to take even more refugees. "That is a red line, because I think that is the plan by certain of the usual suspects to try and create de facto issues on the ground. No refugees in Jordan, no refugees in Egypt."

craigernaught said:

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For what it's worth, King Abdullah of Jordan, in a press conference today in Germany after a meeting with Chancellor Scholz, warned against refugees in either Egypt or Jordan, most likely as Blinken, Israel, and the EU are placing heavy pressure on them to take even more refugees. "That is a red line, because I think that is the plan by certain of the usual suspects to try and create de facto issues on the ground. No refugees in Jordan, no refugees in Egypt."

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Still...ironic don't you think? That Arab nations can place a red line on refugees coming to their countries but, western nations must take whatever the Arab world throws at them.

It's definitely not ironic.

Literally half of the people who live in Jordan are refugees. (Edit: I mean to say that half the people who live in Jordan are Palestinian, either refugees or descended from refugees. If you include Syrians and other groups, it's well over half. Apologies.) When they say they can't take anymore, they literally can't. There isn't enough water. But that's not even the issue. Refugees into Egypt or Jordan will almost certainly never be allowed to return nor are these countries willing to aid Israel in the very actions they oppose.

And no Arab nations has ever said that the West must take "whatever the Arab world throws at them."

I can't tell if people don't understand the issues at play or aren't interested in being genuinely curious.

Serotonin said:

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Looks like Israel just annihilated a Christian hospital.

Reports of at least 500 people killed in the attack on Al-Ahli Arabi Baptist hospital.

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Wrong rocket that was launched by peaceful Hamas that failed. And even if it was an accidental Israeli strike this is on hamas.

But I am sure you will ignore it like most and continue your antisemitism.

https://t.me/beholdisraelchannel/19869


Edit: better video below

https://t.me/beholdisraelchannel/19889

SirDippinDots said:

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Serotonin said:

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Looks like Israel just annihilated a Christian hospital.

Reports of at least 500 people killed in the attack on Al-Ahli Arabi Baptist hospital.

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Wrong rocket that was launched by peaceful Hamas that failed. And even if it was an accidental Israeli strike this is on hamas.

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When you have to go to Telegram to try and deny an Israeli airstrike against a hospital and throw in the accidental strike qualifier, I think it's time to just admit you want genocide.

I don't know why you go to such great lengths to disguise and deny it. Just admit it. No one will think any less of you if you do. You're already at rock bottom.

Defiant Ls

SirDippinDots said:

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Serotonin said:

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SirDippinDots said:

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Serotonin said:

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Looks like Israel just annihilated a Christian hospital.

Reports of at least 500 people killed in the attack on Al-Ahli Arabi Baptist hospital.

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Wrong rocket that was launched by peaceful Hamas that failed. And even if it was an accidental Israeli strike this is on hamas.

But I am sure you will ignore it like most and continue your antisemitism.

https://t.me/beholdisraelchannel/19869


Edit: better video below

https://t.me/beholdisraelchannel/19889

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Hmmm, something strange going on here

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Each side will blame the other. I will choose to believe Israeli's unless there is proof otherwise.

One side is decapitating babies , taking hostages.

To be honest the truth will not matter.

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I thought decapitating babies was proven to be false?

My understanding based on initial Israeli tweets was that they took claim for this and said that Hamas was hiding underneath the hospital. They claimed a successful strike that had killed terrorists.

To be honest, I honestly hope Hamas did this because it might be the only thing that stops this war from escalating further.

We need calm leadership and cool heads, but everything is pointing to escalation.

As Christians we should be praying for peace.

Dude, just stop. The Nazis were happy to use the Evian conference to say, "Well, no one else in the entire world wants our Jews. So clearly there is something extra bad about them, whatever happens next to them is no big deal." Then they proceeded to Holocaust.

You've made it as far as "No one else in the world wants the Palestinians. So clearly there is something extra bad about them…"

When your point is literally the beginning of a point made by the Nazis to justify the Holocaust, then you might want re-examine the fundamentals of your viewpoint.

As in, people's human worth and dignity is not in any way related to the rest of the world wanting or not wanting to embrace them as refugees. There is no gotcha here that justifies poor treatment of 10 million vulnerable people not counting Hamas.

Pro Sandy said:

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AgLiving06 said:

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Pro Sandy said:

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AgLiving06 said:

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Pro Sandy said:

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AgLiving06 said:

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Why am I advocating? Not genocide. I find it funny how quick you are to judge the worst in someone who disagrees with you.

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This thread has primarily focused on sirdippingdots support for genocide, going old testament, and forced relocation. That's why you get the response you do.

We can speak freely of the subject of Israel and Palestine, I think we have. But understand the context has been in why genocide is or is not justified.

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And I've never mentioned anything remotely of that nature in a single one of my posts.

But Zobel wants to make the accusation, that because I disagree with what he's said, I must support the premise of the OP. I must have some hidden agenda for disagreeing with him or you on this.

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Dude, we explained to you why we both thought you were advocating for sirdippingdots position, because that has been what this thread and others as been about.

If you want to talk about something other than why genocide is or isn't justified, probably should start a new thread to avoid confusion with the OPs position.

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So the only positions allowed in this thread, per you, are to either want to exterminate the Palestinians or be pro-Palestinian?

Didn't realize those were the only allowable positions.

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No and those arent even the positions argued and you know that.

I'm done with this thread. I will not post anymore as this discussion with you isn't going anywhere.

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I know you're done, but I wanted to respond and say that I'm confused by this response.

You said sirdippingdots positon was for genocide. So that seems to equate to my statement of "exterminate the Palestinians" unless I'm missing something?

You and Zobel have taken a pro-Palestine position. Maybe I'm wrong about what you've presented on your opinion, just as you were wrong about mine, but I can only go off of what has been posted.

I'd like to support Palestinians, but I'm left wonder, where's the outrage against Hamas in Gaza or around the world? Where's the call for Hamas to surrender? For Hamas to release the hostages that are currently being used as human shields?

I don't think it's a particularly high bar to expect that?

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You and Zobel have taken a pro-Palestine position.

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Not even once.

RAB91 said:

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Following an analysis by the IDF's operational systems, a barrage of rockets was launched toward Israel, which passed in the vicinity of the hospital, when it was hit.

According to intelligence information from a number of sources we have, Islamic Jihad terrorist organization is… pic.twitter.com/QZsanPaFEc

— Israel Defense Forces (@IDF) October 17, 2023

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Despite the early claims from Israelis sources that the IDF killed terrorists hiding under the hospital and some fake videos floating out there, I do believe the IDF here.

The reason why: They have been flattening Gaza even as it's outraged a lot of the world, so why would they suddenly care what the world thinks here?

I'm actually really relieved you came out definitively against genocide. Because when someone jumps in on the side of the person advocating ethnic cleansing and starts throwing around Nazi logic, then it's really hard to tell if that person is definitively against genocide. Which is pretty much what you did. You jumped in on the side of someone advocating ethnic cleansing and then started throwing around Nazi logic.

So please, stop trying to act like the world not wanting to take millions of refugees is in some way unprecedented or special or a judgement on Palestinians' worth as people. It's fair to say that if no country in the world wants to take the Palestinians, then no country in the world really cares about them. It's probably even accurate. It's not fair to say or imply that there is something inherently worse about the Palestinians than any other group of potential mass refugees

ramblin_ag02 said:

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I'm actually really relieved you came out definitively against genocide. Because when someone jumps in on the side of the person advocating ethnic cleansing and starts throwing around Nazi logic, then it's really hard to tell if that person is definitively against genocide. Which is pretty much what you did. You jumped in on the side of someone advocating ethnic cleansing and then started throwing around Nazi logic.

So please, stop trying to act like the world not wanting to take millions of refugees is in some way unprecedented or special or a judgement on Palestinians' worth as people. It's fair to say that if no country in the world wants to take the Palestinians, then no country in the world really cares about them. It's probably even accurate. It's not fair to say or imply that there is something inherently worse about the Palestinians than any other group of potential mass refugees

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Not a single post in this thread from me has called for genocide. Not a single post called for ethnic cleansing. In fact, I've explicitly said I did not support the op, yet you decided to compare me to Nazis.

And as I stated to Pro Sandy yesterday, and at the top of this page, I do not hold the pro-extermination view of the op or the pro-palestinian view of Pro Sandy and Zobel. Yet, you came in today and reiterate the exact same claim from Pro Sandy, as if I did not already clearly state my side.

And no, I did not "pretty much" support ethnic cleansing or genocide. You cannot point to a single post where I supported that, but that didn't stop you from making the claim.

And there is a giant chasm between calling for genocide and posing the question about why out of all of the muslim countries in the Middle East, not a single one wants to take these refugees. Taking the position they are "poor and destitute" as some did here is insufficient given many many refugees fit that description and found homes globally.

As I said, it's the exact opposite of your claims about the jews, but that didn't stop you from making the claim.

It's not wrong to question how radicalized the people of Gaza have become after 20 years under Hamas. It's not wrong to question why Palestinian rallys seem closely aligned with Hamas. It's not wrong to wonder why Palestinians are not condemning Hamas or calling for the release of Israelie hostages that will almost certainly be killed or used as human shields.

None of that is wrong, yet for many on this forum, they either can't or won't consider those questions and instead want to point fingers at Israel. It's very odd.

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It's not wrong to question how radicalized the people of Gaza have become after 20 years under Hamas. It's not wrong to question why Palestinian rallys seem closely aligned with Hamas. It's not wrong to wonder why Palestinians are not condemning Hamas or calling for the release of Israelie hostages that will almost certainly be killed or used as human shields.

None of that is wrong, yet for many on this forum, they either can't or won't consider those questions and instead want to point fingers at Israel. It's very odd.

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So please get to the point of this line of thinking. If you don't tell us why you are making this point, then we have to guess with nothing more to go off than historical precedent. So no one wants to take in Palestinians including their supposed Arab allies. So what? Why does that matter to you? Why should I care? What does this point mean? What am I supposed to do with this information?

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And there is a giant chasm between calling for genocide and posing the question about why out of all of the muslim countries in the Middle East, not a single one wants to take these refugees.

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Play this chess game out.

You are Egypt or Lebanon or some other neighbor and accept the Palestinian people and they all move to your country.

Where does Hamas end up? In your country.

They fire rockets at Israel from your cities. What happens next?

They now have more freedom to get larger stockpiles of weapons from Iran and black market. Who gets blamed for this?

Your country is already unstable. What does this do?

All you have to do is spend ten seconds thinking about how this plays out to understand why it's unworkable for any neighboring countries.

AgLiving06 said:

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ramblin_ag02 said:

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Quote:

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It's not wrong to question how radicalized the people of Gaza have become after 20 years under Hamas. It's not wrong to question why Palestinian rallys seem closely aligned with Hamas. It's not wrong to wonder why Palestinians are not condemning Hamas or calling for the release of Israelie hostages that will almost certainly be killed or used as human shields.

None of that is wrong, yet for many on this forum, they either can't or won't consider those questions and instead want to point fingers at Israel. It's very odd.

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So please get to the point of this line of thinking. If you don't tell us why you are making this point, then we have to guess with nothing more to go off than historical precedent. So no one wants to take in Palestinians including their supposed Arab allies. So what? Why does that matter to you? Why should I care? What does this point mean? What am I supposed to do with this information?

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The point is that it was lazy to just say "poor and destitute" as an excuse. If any of what I said is true, then we now have an idea that we "should" be concerned that other countries aren't taking them for fears the might have.

It means globally, we need to think about how we globally respond. How do we de-radicalize this group so that peace can be achieved? How do we make sure Hamas or another group doesn't rise up?

Those are global issues because there is a global movement connecting Palestine with Hamas as the same entity. That "should" terrify everyone.

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I agree wholeheartedly. I said this on the other thread, but to me the solution is integration into a larger society and the larger world. If former slaves in the US can join society then anything is possible. As rocky as that has been, it's still better than what they have going on.

Happy people with happy families don't end up idolizing suicidal martyrdom