Yeah. All Israel. If you read the prophets that means the northern kingdom tribes, not just Judah and the Judaeans. Where did the northern tribes go?

Don't know. No one except God knows for sure.

We do know, because it is in the scriptures. That's what St Paul is telling you. He even says he doesn't want you to be unaware of this mystery as it has been revealed.

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If their rejection means the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance mean but life from the dead?..

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Who was rejected? The northern tribes - not Judah, Judah was restored. He's talking about Israel, not Judah. When speaking of Judah he says so - Ioudaious, Judaeans, Jews. He makes a disinction.

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if some of the branches were broken off, and you, although a wild olive shoot, were grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing root of the olive tree....you will say, "Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in." That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief...

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Again, Israel was lost because of their unbelief.

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even they, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God has the power to graft them in again. For if you were cut from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and grafted, contrary to nature, into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, the natural branches, be grafted back into their own olive tree.

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Even Israel, gone for centuries, if they don't continue -- how can this be? How can a people who no longer exist continue to unbelieve?? And why would they need to be grafted in like the gentiles?

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I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers: a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written...

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And here's the key. All Israel will be saved through the fullness of the gentiles coming in. Those gentiles are the people into which Israel was scattered. Thus, when all the nations are grafted in, so is All Israel restored (the nations now include the scattered tribes).

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just as you were at one time disobedient to God but now have received mercy because of their disobedience, so they too have now been disobedient in order that by the mercy shown to you they also may now receive mercy. For God has consigned all to disobedience, that he may have mercy on all.

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And the conclusion. This was part of his plan - harkening back to vessels of wrath and mercy - that in wrath on the faithless, there is mercy on all. All are disobedient, and all receive mercy.

In the end, that is why St Paul quotes Hosea - speaking of calling from the Judaeans and from the Gentiles

Those who were not my people I will call 'my people,'
and her who was not beloved I will call 'beloved.'"
"And in the very place where it was said to them, 'You are not my people,'
there they will be called 'sons of the living God.'

Jabin said:

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Macarthur said:

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I don't mean for this to come across as an ahole, but as a non-believer, I can't help but be hit across the face with the irony of this whole fight and the reality that even you guys that are "on the same side" as Christians, can't even agree on who has the rightful claim to the land.

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We're humans. What do you expect?

Engineers that I worked with could argue endlessly over something as black and white as engineering drawings and specs. Do you really expect Christians attitude to the Bible to be any different?

Plus, humans have a long history and tendency to project their own biases on to everything they read, the Bible included. I know that I do and I try as hard as I can to recognize when I'm doing it and to see through those biases. It's really difficult to do so, though, because we're usually not aware of our biases and sometimes, even when we are, we think our biases are right!

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Engineering drawing reviews separate the men from the boys. Drawings might literally be black and white, but they are skill. And with any skills there are critiques and general practices to get you good at them. 'Great' usually becomes nebulous and is subject to opinions on minutiae. Usually that's when the GDT comes out and everyone scatters.

SirDippinDots said:

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Let me be clear the only people I have seen advocating genocide are Hamas and Hezbollah.

But I do see a willful misinterpretation of scripture equating driving them out as genocide and then another lie saying I am advocating genocide.

I see posts how Israel are not God's people.

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"were" God's people. Jew and Gentile are equal in God's NEW covenant. The OLD has been replaced. His love is sufficient for ALL peoples...race, color and creed.

whatthehey78 said:

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SirDippinDots said:

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Let me be clear the only people I have seen advocating genocide are Hamas and Hezbollah.

But I do see a willful misinterpretation of scripture equating driving them out as genocide and then another lie saying I am advocating genocide.

I see posts how Israel are not God's people.

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"were" God's people. Jew and Gentile are equal in God's NEW covenant. The OLD has been replaced. His love is sufficient for ALL peoples...race, color and creed.

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Wrong. God may enter into new covenants and did but he did not replace the one with the Jewish people.

SirDippinDots said:

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whatthehey78 said:

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SirDippinDots said:

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Let me be clear the only people I have seen advocating genocide are Hamas and Hezbollah.

But I do see a willful misinterpretation of scripture equating driving them out as genocide and then another lie saying I am advocating genocide.

I see posts how Israel are not God's people.

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"were" God's people. Jew and Gentile are equal in God's NEW covenant. The OLD has been replaced. His love is sufficient for ALL peoples...race, color and creed.

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Wrong. God may enter into new covenants and did but he did not replace the one with the Jewish people.

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Indeed. The TaNaKh makes that clear.

I see that the current conflict has brought out the believers in old-school anti-Semitic replacement theology.

SirDippinDots said:

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whatthehey78 said:

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SirDippinDots said:

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Let me be clear the only people I have seen advocating genocide are Hamas and Hezbollah.

But I do see a willful misinterpretation of scripture equating driving them out as genocide and then another lie saying I am advocating genocide.

I see posts how Israel are not God's people.

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"were" God's people. Jew and Gentile are equal in God's NEW covenant. The OLD has been replaced. His love is sufficient for ALL peoples...race, color and creed.

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Wrong. God may enter into new covenants and did but he did not replace the one with the Jewish people.

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He did if they don't except Jesus as the Messiah. All Christians are 'Israel'. But lets be honest, we can bicker over covenants and scripture...but does anyone really change their mind here?